Dillards 74: The Dill in the Pickle

[SassyPants]

So the affected Duggar girls and Anna are supposed to forgive and forget Josh’s transgressions, but JB has not forgiven his father’s? Typical do as I say and not as I do.

[BullyJBG]

10 minutes ago, freethemall said:

I'm curious, what did they say about the daughters wearing pants? And tank tops and nose rings?

They didn't get into specifics of why each certain daughter decided to wear pants, and their reaction and any discussion they had.(which they can't NOT do; especially when they wear pants in front of them for the first time) But Michelle went into great detail about how God convicted HER about dressing more like a woman. She talked about the reasons we wear clothes; covering, protection especially from the weather, and identification; like work uniforms, and to identify as a man or a woman. She said it is not her place to judge someone who God may not have convicted the same way. But also that the benefit of dressing as such meant that men were more inspired to act like gentlemen when a lady dresses like a lady. Like they open doors for her when she enters or exits the grocery store. Which I find interesting; where I am, everyone holds doors open for everyone; male or female, no matter what they wear or what age they are. One may wait longer for someone to come through a door if they're using a walker or cane, but that's the only difference.

   As for tank tops and nose rings, they weren't mentioned. Jimbob said modesty is the key.

[apandaaries]

6 minutes ago, freethemall said:

I'm curious, what did they say about the daughters wearing pants? And tank tops and nose rings?

MEchelle really prefers to talk about herself. She discussed her own past at length, when she became a mother, why people wear clothes (4 Gothardesque reasons), throws some shade at transpeople and says people are “confused” about gender, veers over to the story of Solomon but connects it to nothing, reading the Bible, being personally convicted about skirts and JB not being on board, etc. After chatting about herself ad nauseam, she finally mentions telling her daughters that one day they’ll follow their headship and leader, who will be held accountable for his decisions, and they’ll listen to him the same way they listen to their daddy.  Then JB jumps up to save the message by saying they don’t judge others (ha!), and that their girls sometimes wear snowsuits because those are best for some activities. 

She says a lot, but ultimately nothing to truly answer the question. The question is about her daughters, but she just focuses on herself. After this response, the moderator requests that they focus on answering the question. 

[CaricatureQualities]

@luv2laugh Here is the video of JB and M speaking at the church in Ada Oklahoma where Jabbie got married. It is their same old testimony (they play all the hits!) pretty much but it's from last spring. Video isn't the best but it's good enough.

[SilverBeach]

4 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I am from Alabama. I can assure you that those in the South who fly the Confederate flag are indeed racist. They sugar coat it by claiming saying Southern pride.

Yeah, everybody forgets that the confederates committed treason. I'm black and when I run across a confederate flag in the wild (not often, I live in metro Chicago), I feel fear. That flag does not symbolize small government. It symbolizes hate.

The simple reply to any inquiry about what adult children choose to wear, or anything else for that matter, should be "They are adults. They can do what they want."

[OhNoNike]

I live in a small town in PA and a lot of people have confederate flags here, which I find somewhat humerous.  It shows their ignorance of history, and if I’d really thought about it, I may not have been as surprised at how this area voted in the last election.  

[onekidanddone]

32 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Yeah, everybody forgets that the confederates committed treason. I'm black and when I run across a confederate flag in the wild (not often, I live in metro Chicago), I feel fear. That flag does not symbolize small government. It symbolizes hate.

The simple reply to any inquiry about what adult children choose to wear, or anything else for that matter, should be "They are adults. They can do what they want."

When my kid was younger and still in Girl Scouts her troup had a camping trip.  One Kid and I got a ride from another mom who had just moved from NYC.  

On the way we passed a farm with cows in the field and a womping huge ass stars and bars flag flapping in the breeze.  My pulse immediately starts to quicken with anxiety at the site of it and the mom said “Wow! Cows! That is crazy they have cows in the yard”.

 I said nothing but thought. ‘Gee there is a symbol of hate and evil the size of a truck but you are freaked out by a few cows’.

There is no debate. It is evil pure and simple. 

[BachelorToTheRapture]

7 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

I was just thinking how MEchelle gives herself a perfect out with the whole "the leader will be judged for how he led" line of thinking. Basically it lets her daughters off the hook entirely in her view - it's their heathen, worldly husbands that have led them astray into pants-wearing territory. 

I'm not surprised that she comes across as the more fanatical of the two between them. She's basically the equivalent of a religious convert in adulthood - those people can be batshit crazy fanatical a lot of the time as if they have a massive chip on their shoulder. 

What does this mean about John David if Abbie continues to wear pants?

[PennySycamore]

Back to kids' toothbrushes for a moment....  I bought a new toothbrush for myself yesterday.  It was an Oral B with Woody from Toy Story on it.  My old toothbrush was a Peanuts one with Snoopy.  I've got small mouth.  

I was just thinking of this thread when I coming back from an evening with two of my daughters.  My middle daughter asked she should handle this mom that is a newly moved-in Girl Scout mom who has made some intolerant remarks to my daughter when they were doing cookie booth recently.  Two comments were intolerant about the LGBTQ community and one was fat shaming.  This kind of shit is not acceptable to my daughter.  This mom needs friends, but my daughter isn't sure she can be one of them.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

11 hours ago, BullyJBG said:

But also that the benefit of dressing as such meant that men were more inspired to act like gentlemen when a lady dresses like a lady. Like they open doors for her when she enters or exits the grocery store. Which I find interesting; where I am, everyone holds doors open for everyone; male or female, no matter what they wear or what age they are. One may wait longer for someone to come through a door if they're using a walker or cane, but that's the only difference.

I'm pretty sure that every grocery store I shop in has automatic doors.

And I loathe MEchelle's stance (JB's, too) on gender identity. I've learned a little by meeting people of various genders, and it just isn't as simple and black & white as their ideas. It's so much more nuanced and beautiful and complicated.  

[Glasgowghirl]

13 hours ago, SassyPants said:

So the affected Duggar girls and Anna are supposed to forgive and forget Josh’s transgressions, but JB has not forgiven his father’s? Typical do as I say and not as I do.

Jim Bob doesn't want his father to be forgiven because he didn't share his beliefs and criticised him on TV for having too many children, Jim Bob's ego didn't like that. With Josh, he believes since Josh has the same beliefs as them and he apologised then all should be forgiven. Blaming Anna and his daughter's for him doing what he did also helps them ease the blame. 

When it comes to opening doors for people, I do it for males or females. I have noticed that when I am at the bus stop, if an older man is also waiting that they almost always insist that me or any other woman waiting goes first it's a generational thing and I have learned not to argue with them and just say thanks and go first. 

 

[SorenaJ]

Are people who have the confederate flag usually also queerphobic, or is there no correlation? I saw someone on Facebook whose profile picture was the confederate flag, but overlaid with the rainbow flag (semi-transparent) on top, and I was confused. 

[Satan'sFortress]

Michelle also claimed that if women wear skirts and dresses, then it is easy to identify them as female when they are walking down the street towards you (I paraphrase.)  I don't think that anyone would mistake Jinger or Jill for a man if they were walking down the street.

I also don't know why it matters, though. 

[RosyDaisy]

Are people who have the confederate flag usually also queerphobic, or is there no correlation?

I do not know of a single Confederate flag waver who isn't anti-LGBT. The two go hand in hand where I come from (South).

[AtlanticTug]

22 hours ago, BachelorToTheRapture said:

What does this mean about John David if Abbie continues to wear pants?

I feel like they have an "out" in the sense that Abbie came into that relationship wearing pants and employed. So it's not as if JD's "leadership" was poor, it's that she was pre-corrupted.

None of these fundies EVER take any responsibility for themselves or their children.

[CarrotCake]

12 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

 

 

I do not know of a single Confederate flag waver who isn't anti-LGBT. The two go hand in hand where I come from (South).

 

Makes sense, those people are usually just against anything they do not know or anyone that is not like them.

[wakeamy]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:00 PM, tabitha2 said:

@Beermeet there are some fundies who drink. They are humans who have individual hang ups and concerns not the Borg collective after all  

D dill grew up fairly secular so a cold one occasionally is not a ticket to ruin and hell to him. 

 

If they are fundies that err on the side of Calvinism, which there aren’t a lot, (but Jeremy and Ben both do) they are not against alcohol, just getting drunk. 

[backyard sylph]

I went to a Calvinist church for about a year in the mid-90s. (The person I am married to covered everything, pretty much, and I went along, though stopped loosely at taoism and he carried on from there with whatever he liked.)

Their notion of God's chosen aside, they were far more intellectually rigorous than many of the others. They liked debating, and most of them could do so with some amount of depth, though there were still fallacies from beginning with a premise; circular reasoning and begging the question, etc. 

They weren't fundamentalists, but I can imagine both Jeremy and Ben enjoying one of their get-togethers, and fitting in pretty well.

[fluffernutter]

Mmmmmm mmmmmm Good! Jill has blessed the world yet again with another recipe. The ingredients are 

1 pound ground beef or turkey

1/2 C. ketchup 

1/2 C. BBQ sauce

1/2 envelope dry onion soup mix

2 tsp. liquid smoke.............. Blech. I can't even read it without feeling ill. To be honest I don't even like bbq so I might not be the best gauge on the ingredients. 

 

[Georgiana]

Have we ever discussed Jill's comments on Insta to her sisters?  

Not only does her advice not make a lot of sense, but it's really tone deaf to Jessa's post where she was clearly trying to engage her FOLLOWERS.  Jill jumping in here is kind of weird, not only because you would expect this communication between sisters to be done via a different medium (call, text, in person, private message) but because Jessa's quite obviously NOT asking for Jill's opinion here.  So why does Jill feel the need to comment?  Is she so isolated from her sisters that she feels they would ask for her opinion like this as opposed to directly?  Is she so tone deaf she doesn't understand her opinion is not being sought here?  Is she so self-important she feels that EVERY ask is an ask for HER opinion or that HER opinion is ALWAYS valuable enough to share, even if not being sought?  

This is, of course, in addition to the many other questions this comment raises.

[SorenaJ]

In Jill's Sloppy Joe recipe, is the dry onion soup mix a substitute for actual seasoning? 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

Yes, she’s using the soup mix as seasoning.  Gah, that has to be so salty!  

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, fluffernutter said:

Mmmmmm mmmmmm Good! Jill has blessed the world yet again with another recipe. The ingredients are 

1 pound ground beef or turkey

1/2 C. ketchup 

1/2 C. BBQ sauce

1/2 envelope dry onion soup mix

2 tsp. liquid smoke.............. Blech. I can't even read it without feeling ill. To be honest I don't even like bbq so I might not be the best gauge on the ingredients. 

 

Sloppy Joe's don't need to be fancy but this could use fresh onion and green pepper. 

[karen77]

 

1 hour ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

Yes, she’s using the soup mix as seasoning.  Gah, that has to be so salty!  

It's actually not bad, pretty tasty. Done this in the past.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

Have we ever discussed Jill's comments on Insta to her sisters?  

Not only does her advice not make a lot of sense, but it's really tone deaf to Jessa's post where she was clearly trying to engage her FOLLOWERS.  Jill jumping in here is kind of weird, not only because you would expect this communication between sisters to be done via a different medium (call, text, in person, private message) but because Jessa's quite obviously NOT asking for Jill's opinion here.  So why does Jill feel the need to comment?  Is she so isolated from her sisters that she feels they would ask for her opinion like this as opposed to directly?  Is she so tone deaf she doesn't understand her opinion is not being sought here?  Is she so self-important she feels that EVERY ask is an ask for HER opinion or that HER opinion is ALWAYS valuable enough to share, even if not being sought?  

This is, of course, in addition to the many other questions this comment raises.

I don’t know if this is a great example, for a few reasons, to be honest:

1. Jill wasn't the only Duggar to comment with advice. Anna commented as well.

2. The advice Jill offered was actually pretty solid advice. Having them undressed (or at least without pants) makes things much easier since there’s less clothes in the way when your kid really has to go. The sound of running water helps some kids to go as well, though the sink might be a better option than the tub. My daughter is almost ready for potty training, I’ve been doing both those things with her, and I’ve found it has helped so far. 

3. Jill and Anna are the only sister and sister-in-law with pretty recent potty training experience that we know of. The others either have kids who are too young (Jinger, Joy, Kendra), don’t have children (Abbie, Lauren, and Jana), or don’t have recent experience (I would assume Jana fits here too.) 

I would guess Jill communicates with her family privately. I’d guess that Jessa also asks their family for advice privately as well. I would guess this is likely a way for Jill to either show support for her sister publicly or possibly get a little attention for herself (or both) and that Jessa was trying to appear relatable to her followers (and misstepped with some of them since there were comments calling her out for shaming Spurgeon.)

ETA: Forgot to finish my thought. I do think this has been discussed before though. Jill is awkward. She always has been and will likely continue to be awkward since she’s not married to someone who seems to be capable of helping her grow out of that. I just don’t think this is the best example.