Dillards 74: The Dill in the Pickle

[lizzybee]

I think the thing about that modesty question that was kind of awkward was that they couldn't decide if they should sit or stand, and then Michelle launched into how sinful and horrible SHE was and what sort of background she personally was coming from. It seemed like to me at least that she wanted everyone to know that this was something that she personally felt led to do because of how she felt about her sinful background. She never actually got to the point about what she thought about her own daughters wearing pants because honestly I think she forgot the actual question. She came close to getting back to the point of the question but never got there. It was the most disorganized they were in the whole video right there. Even the interviewer asked them afterwards to concentrate on answering the actual question (haha). I was really hoping she was going to explain her ideas on why she had her daughters dress modestly (skirts) too once she got to the point, but unfortunately she never managed to go back to talking about anyone but herself. I personally didn't think she was shading anybody and JB really wanted to stress he never asked or expected her to dress in skirts only. But if you want a little Duggar shade, I got a video for you. You'll have to make a free month's Embassy Media account, but Jim Bob actually references how his daughters now have to listen to their husband over him. 

Priscilla: I thought this was the most articulate I've ever seen Priscilla. She always has come off to me like a pod person but this was like an actual human being talking and she's very knowledgeable about her cult and it's beliefs. The more and more I think about it the more uncomfortable that makes me. She's drank so much kool-aid she's started to dissolve in it but there's actually a thinking person in there that is so sold out that there's nothing there but the cult. Really jarring, tbh. 

David Waller can quote the bible like no one I've ever heard, good grief, he's got a bible verse ready for anything. 

Michelle mentions at the end that Grandma Mary had two strokes over Christmas but seems to be doing relatively okay. 

Lastly, when they're talking about not being able to wait and needing to get married ASAP, Michelle looks so sinister and forbidding when she launches into her spiel about not making provisions for the flesh I felt a little scared of her. Some of the questions and answers were pretty revealing, I came away feeling like I knew a little more what it must be like having JB and M as parents. I'm so used to the jokey smiles of CO that to see them so serious answering these questions really illuminates them in a way you don't usually get a glimpse of.  

[libgirl2]

27 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I have long believed that J'chelle is the one in charge despite all the talk of submission, headship, blah, blah, blah.  

JB has been besotted with her since they met, she always had him around her finger.  As others have mentioned it was her who pushed the family into fundiedom and JB followed to keep her happy.   I suspect that within the TTH, the focus is around J'chelle's wants and needs and everyone in the family has been conditioned to cater to her, including JB, for years. 

I always felt she was the one really in charge. 

[lizzybee]

Oh! Another thing I found really interesting in the video was that Michelle says she actually coaches her children to say as little as possible when a microphone is put in their face. It explains a lot of the TH's to me a lot better now where they'd all just let Jill talk while they smiled at her or similar.

[luv2laugh]

6 hours ago, lizzybee said:

 I was really hoping she was going to explain her ideas on why she had her daughters dress modestly (skirts) too once she got to the point, but unfortunately she never managed to go back to talking about anyone but herself. I personally didn't think she was shading anybody and JB really wanted to stress he never asked or expected her to dress in skirts only. But if you want a little Duggar shade, I got a video for you. You'll have to make a free month's Embassy Media account, but Jim Bob actually references how his daughters now have to listen to their husband over him. 

Michelle's fanatic statements, quoting "weareth not which pertaineth to a man", and revealing how she felt led against her husband's wishes to wear skirts said enough for me. JB mentioned that in some activities, more modesty is actually required and said this is why their kids wear skirts over their snowsuits. JB was quick to shut Michelle down when she was going on about how "the leader will have to give an account of how they led!".

JB wanted to shut it down because he is the Duggar PR Machine and does not want the tabloids to start talking about it. Also, JB wanted the pants-wearers in the audience to not feel upset. JB caught Michelle veering off the brief "personal conviction" statement and had to shut it down fast by stopping Michelle mid-sentence with, "Look. We don't want y'all to change your clothing.".

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Michelle being the dominate parent would explain why all the kids aside from the 4 oldest girls, seem to have little to no relationship with her.  The lost girls have no desire to be near her and you don't see any of the older kids gushing over MEchelle, just Jana, Jill, Jessa & Jinger, the others all seem a bit closer with JB.  I think Josh, JD & Joe got a lot of time with JB, Si too, but Si was always such a round peg in a square world  (speaking as a round peg in a square world) so it was an awkward relationship.  All of them, from Joy to Jordyn were raised by their siblings, until Jinger & Joy moved out, now nannies/tutors/wolves are essentially raising them.  You never see, Joy or SI making mushy, I love you posts, to their parents on birthdays or Mothers/Fathers Day like we do the older girls. they don't say much of anything really, but still post other things.  You can see how Jinger loves her mama, and Jessa and Jana and Jill always seem to make time for it, but Joy is no where to be found, she's to busy playing in the dirt with her husband. 

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

Oh! Another thing I found really interesting in the video was that Michelle says she actually coaches her children to say as little as possible when a microphone is put in their face. It explains a lot of the TH's to me a lot better now where they'd all just let Jill talk while they smiled at her or similar.

Too bad JB never got the memo.

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Michelle being the dominate parent would explain why all the kids aside from the 4 oldest girls, seem to have little to no relationship with her.  The lost girls have no desire to be near her and you don't see any of the older kids gushing over MEchelle, just Jana, Jill, Jessa & Jinger, the others all seem a bit closer with JB.  I think Josh, JD & Joe got a lot of time with JB, Si too, but Si was always such a round peg in a square world  (speaking as a round peg in a square world) so it was an awkward relationship.  All of them, from Joy to Jordyn were raised by their siblings, until Jinger & Joy moved out, now nannies/tutors/wolves are essentially raising them.  You never see, Joy or SI making mushy, I love you posts, to their parents on birthdays or Mothers/Fathers Day like we do the older girls. they don't say much of anything really, but still post other things.  You can see how Jinger loves her mama, and Jessa and Jana and Jill always seem to make time for it, but Joy is no where to be found, she's to busy playing in the dirt with her husband. 

I noticed this as well. Have you noticed that Jill is visibly closer to her *gasp* (pants-wearing, working, and Contemporary Southern Baptist) mother-in-law rather than Michelle?

[Firebird]

@luv2laugh

I have noticed that Jill seems closer to her husband's family. Maybe Jill feels like even negative attention from her husband is better than the nothingness and the performance  she had to participate in at home.

[lexiloumarie]

23 minutes ago, Firebird said:

@luv2laugh

I have noticed that Jill seems closer to her husband's family. Maybe Jill feels like even negative attention from her husband is better than the nothingness and the performance  she had to participate in at home.

I had an ex who, I probably would have married because I loved being part of her family more than I loved her. So warm, close, and welcoming - the opposite of the dysfunction I grew up in.

Thankfully, I had a drunk, party wild phase itching that caused a spilt. Allowed me to be enough of an idiot to know that I was simply not ready at that point for commitment....and then I met the Mrs. and it was all done. No more dating here. 

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Michelle being the dominate parent would explain why all the kids aside from the 4 oldest girls, seem to have little to no relationship with her.  The lost girls have no desire to be near her and you don't see any of the older kids gushing over MEchelle, just Jana, Jill, Jessa & Jinger, the others all seem a bit closer with JB.  I think Josh, JD & Joe got a lot of time with JB, Si too, but Si was always such a round peg in a square world  (speaking as a round peg in a square world) so it was an awkward relationship.  All of them, from Joy to Jordyn were raised by their siblings, until Jinger & Joy moved out, now nannies/tutors/wolves are essentially raising them.  You never see, Joy or SI making mushy, I love you posts, to their parents on birthdays or Mothers/Fathers Day like we do the older girls. they don't say much of anything really, but still post other things.  You can see how Jinger loves her mama, and Jessa and Jana and Jill always seem to make time for it, but Joy is no where to be found, she's to busy playing in the dirt with her husband. 

I've always felt the kids to be closer to JB than to Michelle. 

[Glasgowghirl]

31 minutes ago, Firebird said:

@luv2laugh

I have noticed that Jill seems closer to her husband's family. Maybe Jill feels like even negative attention from her husband is better than the nothingness and the performance  she had to participate in at home.

As awful as Cathy is, she does seem to be caring towards Jill and her grandson's. Jim Bob and Michelle may have a lot more children and grandchildren but they seem so detached to most of them. 

[mpheels]

1 hour ago, lizzybee said:

Michelle mentions at the end that Grandma Mary had two strokes over Christmas but seems to be doing relatively okay. 

I cant go digging through old threads at the moment - does this line up with the timeline for Pickles’ medical mystery speculation? If Grandma Mary had a couple of strokes, that would explain Deanna stopping by the hospital neurology department.

[Anna Bolinas]

Idk, wasn't JB religious first? Like he was already fundie-adjacent before he'd even met Michelle? I think if anything, they're equal partners in the descent into fundiedom. JB has such an "aw shucks" attitude that it almost seems he's just along for the ride, but I think they're both at the front of the crazy train that is their lives.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I do wish Grandma Mary a speedy and full recovery. I hope she gets to spend her golden years enjoying her (great)- grandchildren and not doing laundry for JB and Michelle. 

[Satan'sFortress]

I broke down and watched a goodly (godly) portion of that video.  My thoughts, FWIW:

• I am really glad that the Lord purposed to put it in front of me because it reconfirmed my absolute and utter disdain for this cult.  Sometimes, even on FJ, I get caught up in the pretty wedding dress, the cute baby, the funny response from Jessa, and I truly, truly forget how awful all of this is.  I came to FJ to explore and understand fundamentalist people (and for the funny snark).  Much like Austin in his sinner phase, I needed this reminder to recommit myself to my true purpose.

• It may take me awhile to figure out who I hated most in the video.  But here is my rough ranking.

1. David Waller comes out a clear, strong front-runner.  He is so self-righteous and condescending that I could hardly stand to listen to his parts.  He had to "just add something" to almost everything that everyone else said.
2. Michelle comes in at #2.  Obviously, her breathy baby voice . . . but I think what really gets me with her is that she has never gotten over the fact that she wasn't "born again" until 15.  She can't seem to forgive herself and always comes across so strongly, that oddly, in a way makes her seem like she feels that she isn't as good as the "real" Christians who hit the God ground running.  She is like a muggle-born, and I hate her extra-devout-to-make-up-for-her-past attitude.
3. Priscilla is #3.  Bugged. The. Ever. Living. Crap. out of me, but she seems dim-witted and completely brainwashed and I can't help but feel a bit sorry for her.
4. I am disgusted to place Jim Bob as #4, the one who bugged me the least.  The stuff he said was just as awful, but he at least seemed to have a sense that others may have different views and was slightly sensitive to that.

 

More on defrauding later, but I have to go eat my potato soup that FJ led me to make . . .

[backyard sylph]

I'd like for Michelle to explain to me when exactly God designated bifurcated clothing for men only, and the reverse for women only, and why only in certain parts of the world. Please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_clothing

I read some articles regarding Deuteronomy and Timothy and male and female clothing. Theories tossed about included the need to be obviously male and female, like Michelle's odd concern about herself, and the need to not appear open for business in the rear. Sorry, but really, that came up. I.D.K. 

When I look at beautiful Hindi and Pakistani wedding wear for men, I'm entranced by it. But I think she would not find it masculine the way I do. So that's context. 

And of course, girls were not allowed to wear jeans to school til I was 9 where I lived, in 1974. Girls had to look like girls and jeans were tomboyish. 

But Jesus goes on quite a bit about following the intent of the law and not the letter of it. When I was in church, we were taught to avoid "legalism." I guess she never was, or took it upon herself to decide, which is not very...modest or submissive of her.

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I broke down and watched a goodly (godly) portion of that video.  My thoughts, FWIW:

• I am really glad that the Lord purposed to put it in front of me because it reconfirmed my absolute and utter disdain for this cult.  Sometimes, even on FJ, I get caught up in the pretty wedding dress, the cute baby, the funny response from Jessa, and I truly, truly forget how awful all of this is.  I came to FJ to explore and understand fundamentalist people (and for the funny snark).  Much like Austin in his sinner phase, I needed this reminder to recommit myself to my true purpose.

•  It may take me awhile to figure out who I hated most in the video.  But here is my rough ranking.

1. David Waller comes out a clear, strong front-runner.  He is so self-righteous and condescending that I could hardly stand to listen to his parts.  He had to "just add something" to almost everything that everyone else said.
2.  Priscilla is #3.  Bugged. The. Ever. Living. Crap. out of me, but she seems dim-witted and completely brainwashed and I can't help but feel a bit sorry for her.

More on defrauding later, but I have to go eat my potato soup that FJ led me to make . . .

David Waller is a real jerk. He even said, regarding their 'anonymous' "very close friend who got pregnant out-of-wedlock" and had to add, "at first, she did not know who the father was"... Was THAT necessary?

• I cannot believe it. He gets up on stage, on a public platform that he KNEW was being video-taped, and had the audacity to shit-talk their 'anonymous "very close friend".
  • He calls himself a Christian?
  • If stereotypical, arrogant holier-than-thou Christian was a term in the dictionary, the definition would be David Waller.

Also, Michelle, way to shit-talk your pants-wearing daughters (and their douche-canoe husbands)... The entire video was part fundie-cult kool-aid spewing and part humble-brag down right gossipy. I thought Christians are not supposed to gossip?

At one point, Priscilla starts stringing nonsensical sentences together and looks bashfully over at David saying, "Sorry, I am getting confused..." Additionally, when asked a question, Priscilla tried very hard to explain it but then mumbled something quietly over at Michelle, as if Michelle would answer it better, and looked very embarrassed. Priscilla sounded more articulate than ever but I can tell she is not comfortable speaking in front of a large audience on stage. David seems like the kind of person that would force Priscilla to do this.

• I bet David chastises Priscilla on her public speaking skills behind closed doors and makes her and the kids practice until they give perfect performances.
• David even remarked, after Priscilla mentioned being 4 months older than him, "Yes, but Priscilla still humbles herself under my leadership"

Jim-Bob was the only one that managed to stay on script in accordance with the TLC-Friendly Duggar PR Machine. For JB, it was a close one... He had to cut Michelle off when she started going on about the pants-wearing daughters husbands, "But the leader must give an account to God for how they led!"

• However, JB answered the question regarding interracial marriage awkwardly in addition to the question on marrying someone from a different denomination.
• JB and David Waller's responses on the denominational question, in my opinion, made it clear they are unhappy with Derrick's choice to make Jill attend his mother's contemporary Southern Baptist Church whereas, Ben and Jeremy's reformed beliefs are less conflicting with theirs.
  • AKA: Ben & Jeremy are willing to toe the party line and obey Godbobber for $$$ compared to Derrick who seems to be feuding with him.
• Given that the Duggars introduced David & Pris as basically, their own children, makes me honestly believe that David's goal is to almost take Josh's place within the family and possibly even work for JB... They made a comment on God giving signs such as in the Bible, the river drying up as a sign to move elsewhere, in regard to finances.  We all know that IBLP's finances are "drying up" and David is following in JB's steps by acquiring a 2nd fixer-upper property.
  • Again, my opinion only.

 

What was with JB saying that Austin's one friend, who did not repent, ended up "gouging his eye out" with the mechanical tool? Is JB trying to say that tragedies are God's punishment? 

[Markie]

Michelle denies or has made a subconscious effort to forget her past life. I remember when the family visited with Dolly Parton, Michelle pretended she had never heard of Dolly. Michelle is the same age as me and I sure as hell knew who Dollly Parton was. Even if I hadn’t listened to her using since the 1980’s. Why lie about that? To appear more Godly? And Dolly made a fuss over Jordyn, the most forgotten girl child... 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

David Waller is a smarmy puke face.  I disliked him the minute he first showed his two faces.  That’s all I got for now.

[backyard sylph]

Just now, Markie said:

Michelle denies or has made a subconscious effort to forget her past life. I remember when the family visited with Dolly Parton, Michelle pretended she had never heard of Dolly. Michelle is the same age as me and I sure as hell knew who Dollly Parton was. Even if I hadn’t listened to her using since the 1980’s. Why lie about that? To appear more Godly? And Dolly made a fuss over Jordyn, the most forgotten girl child... 

"Two doors down they're not aware that I'm around." Apparently in Michelle's case they really were, and that embarrasses her now. 

Hmm, what would it be like to sit and watch 9 to 5 with her, watching what they do to lecherous sexist Dabney Coleman? I'd have to secretly pre-load, though.

[Satan'sFortress]

Concerning the defrauding, I have a few genuine questions.   

Michelle, at least, brings up a couple of times that it is perfectly normal for young, unmarried girls to have tingly feelings about a boy (I paraphrase).  Not OK, of course to act on those feelings or discuss them with anyone except mom and dad, but perfectly normal nonetheless.  But we shouldn't defraud others by wearing inappropriate clothing,  which might produce tingly feelings that couldn't be righteously fulfilled.  What is the difference?  Why is the first case normal and acceptable, but not the second?   I am not explaining myself clearly, but hopefully someone will understand.

Why is it OK for David Waller to wear tight jeans and sit with his legs open?  How is that not defrauding? (I'm really being serious here . . .)

[Firebird]

@Satan'sFortress good catch. I hadn't noticed that level of hypocrisy. I think they draw the line as it's okay to be interested in someone of the opposite sex as long as you have absolutely NO sexual feelings. I was taught that even having sexual thoughts was the same as sleeping around. I was actually told masturbation was okay as long as you have no sexual fantasies. If you fantasize about someone it's the same as having sex with them. The amount of guilt was/ is staggering. 

[Granwych]

22 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Concerning the defrauding, I have a few genuine questions.   

Michelle, at least, brings up a couple of times that it is perfectly normal for young, unmarried girls to have tingly feelings about a boy (I paraphrase).  Not OK, of course to act on those feelings or discuss them with anyone except mom and dad, but perfectly normal nonetheless.  But we shouldn't defraud others by wearing inappropriate clothing,  which might produce tingly feelings that couldn't be righteously fulfilled.  What is the difference?  Why is the first case normal and acceptable, but not the second?   I am not explaining myself clearly, but hopefully someone will understand.

Why is it OK for David Waller to wear tight jeans and sit with his legs open?  How is that not defrauding? (I'm really being serious here . . .)

after reading about the life and times of the Pecan Thief, he's one of the least defrauding fellows in fundiedom in my book .

[Galbin]

"Michelle had no standards when I met her. " Wow. What a thing to say about your spouse.

[CaricatureQualities]

Michelle comes across as crazy insecure about gender roles in society. I think the idea of sex being different than gender threatens her terribly. She keeps bringing up how "confused and upside down the world" and society are about what is a man and what is a woman. Society has it all mixed up now! She brings up public bathrooms again (oh that infamous robocall). The signs on the bathrooms have always been women in skirts, men not, it's a symbol...dress is a sign of gender and if it's reversed than everything just gets mixed up. 

Well, it was society that determined gender and the roles and dress that comes with it. You go back far enough or to a different climate and culture and dudes are in dresses too...for reasons that came from the society they are in. It changes. It always changes over time. But then it is "society" that has it wrong and is all mixed up about it now that society is re-examining what gender is and how we use it. So society was right when the gender roles were man (Pants, short hair) and women (skirt, long hair) for the longest time but society is now wrong when it deviates from that an inch and reconsiders. So which is it? Is society right when you agree with the social norms and wrong and confused the instance that you don't? 

Michelle said there was a statement she had her kids memorize when microphones where stuck in their faces (because memorization is the best bet, they can't be expected to critically think about a question and give an honest answer) and her it is (after she rambles some more about society being confused as to what a man is and what a woman is): 

"Our society has accepted 2 huge lies:

1)If you love someone you must agree everything they say or do

2)If you disagree with someone you must fear or hate them"

Oh haven't we heard that directly from Jill and Derick. This is a statement they have come up with to try to cover their hateful asses so as to get out of hot water before they boil themselves publicly. And in Michelle's case I think she betrays herself. I think ideas that differ from anything she has convicted herself  as is uncomfortable for her... I think the idea of transgender scares the shit out of her and belittles her idea of what gender is and how it is expressed that she has personalized so much to the point of it being such a huge part of her identity. She fears gender bending, she fears the shit out of it and the idea that society might be coming around to exploring new ideas....I think she hates and fears that big time.

And the thing is, lots of people in society ARE agreeing to disagree and have conversations about this (and other topics) more and more without hate or fear. Lots of people find that they can learn an opposite view and debate it and converse about it. They (the fundies) are the ones who are refusing to have the conversation! You are the ones refusing to consider that your notion of gender or history or evolution or anything could be limited and might need to be revisited. Take the time to actually understand ANY idea or opinion different from your own and then you get to agree or disagree. Sticking your thumbs in your ears, covering your eyes and singing a hymn at the top of your lungs to block out any outside input you may receive isn't disagreeing...you can not disagree with something you are totally ignorant of. I just watched Michelle blather on for hours, and I understood what she was saying and I disagreed. No way in hell any of them have sincerely listened to a legitimate explanation of what the theory of evolution is, how sex is different from gender, or any argument from the pro-choice side. None of them understand any of these things...but they still know they disagree. Then if someone from the big bad world asks them to defend their position it's not a conversation it is an attack. Instead of engaging in that conversation you have that go to memorized statement that screams of defensiveness and "eww society just doesn't understand us!"