Lori Alexander: 63: Teacher of Foolishness

[Free Jana Duggar]

I have to say I'm against porn myself. So many of those young women are exploited and abused and possibly drunk or drugged. 

Human trafficking is a real problem.  All I can think of is that's someone's daughter being used by a man for pay, not love.

 

[Hisey]

5 hours ago, livinglongerthanyou said:

From her blog post today: "I could have easily written a post titled, “Women Prefer Men Who are Tall, Handsome, and Wealthy” but this is stating the obvious"

And there we have it. This is the absolute insight into Lori's shallow character. This is what she wanted in a husband. She can't fathom that most people are attracted to the heart of another person. Such a tragic way to view the world. 

I wish she'd stop talking about "most women."

Tall?-- didn't matter to me

Handsome? -- well, handsome is nice, but not essential. Handsome is also in the eye of the beholder. Once I felt someone was kind and caring, they sort of became handsome to me.

Wealthy?--If I wanted wealth, I'd earn it myself. I didn't go hunting for wealth in a guy.

[Petronella]

5 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Human trafficking is a real problem.  All I can think of is that's someone's daughter being used by a man for pay, not love.

 

Why does it matter that a woman is someone’s daughter? Being trafficked is terrible because she’s a worthy human being in her own right, not because of her relationship with someone else.

[Free Jana Duggar]

True.  I have a daughter and was just thinking as a mom.

[Imrlgoddess]

Ok so I have a question for the former/still having to hang on the fringe fundies here:  Is porn really that much of a problem within the fold?  Are we talking about Jenna Jamison, XX, XXX level videos and websites?  Or is it any show or picture that reveals overt amounts of skin or sex scenes that are more than gratuitous?  How are they even finding this stuff?  If young people are sheltered from outside school sources and their internet and reading is heavily monitored...how do they even know it exists without someone else guiding them to it?  I'm assuming it starts off with things like Playboy or Penthouse and then click any link from there.  

This really does blow my mind, I'm not trying to downplay it I just can't grasp how a sheltered group of people can randomly stumble upon what I consider "actual pornography".  My ex was allll about it when we were married, but he had access to it via his uncle and stepfather.  They each had stashes they weren't shy about.  

[kmachete14]

@Imrlgoddess im guessing from mixing with "worldy" people at public school, college, work etc -- they hear it being joked about or discussed, or famous stars/actresses mentioned? More reasons for fundies to fear that world. Or, they actively chose to "sin" and search up something provocative yet immature, like 11 year old me, who literally typed in "women's breasts" to google. From there it's an easy path to an actual free porn website. 

[wallysmommy]

I think the forbidden becomes more compelling. My quasi-fundie mom knew my brother had magazines and she didn’t care. She would rather know what he was doing instead of him hiding things.  I think the stronger parents are against some things, the more their children are pushed toward them. Sequestering your kids can only go so far. You can teach them what is right but they have to make their own choices as adults. As for her saying she doesn’t give her DILs advice, I’m calling her liar, liar pants on fire. She does it through her passive-aggressive blogs and FB posts.

[Alisamer]

It is a little odd that the people most focused on sex and porn are the ones who seem to think it is great evil. I know way more about Lori's sex life than the sex lives of ANY of my friends. Same for the Duggar parents, and most of their married kids. Does she realize most non-fundies are not obsessed with porn? Some are, sure, but the majority of the world can see someone in a swimsuit or even naked and not immediately jump on them or have to go pray. I can honestly say that I have never, ever, ever noticed the firmness of any other person's boobs when hugging them. Much less noticed to the point that I posted about it on a blog weeks later.

I really think for most of these people, and particularly Lori, it's the black/white thinking that causes most of their troubles. Some are afraid to think for themselves, some just aren't very smart, some have been sheltered so much they've not had to think much... but they can only see "Godly" and anything not "Godly" must be "EVIL". Apparently it is very "Godly" to constantly talk to other people about sex and porn, but it is EVIL to go about your life not worrying about what other people choose to do with their own body.

And Lori has clearly never read all of Proverbs 31. That woman was seriously running her whole household, managing servants, buying and selling goods, spinning her own wool (probably the only relaxing time she got, TBH), planting in the fields, etc. All while her husband was off sitting with the elders - isn't that a thing among some ultra-orthodox Jewish men, that the women basically do absolutely everything while the husband dedicates his life to studying the torah and does nothing else? The Proverbs 31 woman wasn't just "a keeper at home" she was keeping her entire household! Kind of like how Ken "keeps" Lori by earning the money and paying the servants - the woman in Proverbs was "keeping" her servants, children, businesses, household, etc. while her husband was up in town hanging out with the elders. I'm sure he worked too because back then you worked or died unless you were a king of some sort, but really. It clearly says the woman was working. A lot. In and out of the home. Daily. She spun wool, she planted, she bought and sold goods, she helped the needy, she went out and inspected fields she was thinking of purchasing. She worked from before dawn until after dark, and got her hands dirty. 

Lori is a waste of air. The entire world is stupider because she exists.

[Hisey]

5 hours ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

True.  I have a daughter and was just thinking as a mom.

I know exactly what you mean. I have two teen girls and as a parent, you can't help but think of your own kids, and wonder how those girls ended up in a movie like that. My husband has said the same thing.

The protectiveness and love you feel for your own kids gets extended to other young women, especially those who are being exploited. It's part of being a good human being.

25 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I can honestly say that I have never, ever, ever noticed the firmness of any other person's boobs when hugging them.

Me too! In fact, when I learned about side hugs from the Duggars, I thought it was strange. Usually, hugs  are quick things, and I never thought about the person's boobs at all. Similarly, when I hug a man (like a family friend), I don't think about his chest. I'm usually thinking about a hundred other things, actually.

[nausicaa]

Wow, this thread took a turn for the patriarchal and condescending.

Women aren't defined as "someone's daughters." And "someone's daughter" can still enjoy sex or just choose to trade sexual favors for money because they don't happen to attach the same meaning to it as others may. They aren't necessarily "being used for pay" any more than a waitress or nurse is being used for pay. We never say men are "being used for pay" or must be treated with love.

I can't believe I have to give this reminder on a supposedly feminist site, but adult women aren't hapless children who need society's guidance and care.

"Sex trafficking" hysteria is becoming the "white slavery!" of the 21st century. Actual cases of sex trafficking as we think of it are  quite rare (and are basically unheard of in the highly regulated U.S. porn industry). It's basically a guise to crack down on consensual prostitution, and also to nanny grown ass women as in the Marriott case, and it's depressing how people are falling for it. 

[kmachete14]

@nausicaa just in the past few years many porn stars have talked about how they were forced into scenes they didn't agree to, faced violent treatment by their co-stars that they didn't consent to, and even talked about what makes a "star" and how misleading many companies can be, considering only a few women actually become stars. There's interviews of porn stars talking about how you may not find work if you don't agree to do x, y, and z in the scene, which initially they were not keen to do. 

There was also a huge controversy about "revenge porn" and how a lot of the amateur porn you may see wasn't posted with the consent of one of the parties in the film/images. 

So it's silly to think that most porn is just women making a living and enjoying their job -- that may be true for some, but is far from the whole truth. Especially on the free porn sites, you don't know who posted it or who is making money from the posting. 

You can definitely look for porn on websites owned by the actresses/actors, or produced by them, and research the porn companies and stars to see if they have controversy attached to their name/use fair practices, but I'd wager the majority of people going in for a quick 10 min fix aren't doing this . . .  

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

This really does blow my mind, I'm not trying to downplay it I just can't grasp how a sheltered group of people can randomly stumble upon what I consider "actual pornography".  My ex was allll about it when we were married, but he had access to it via his uncle and stepfather.  They each had stashes they weren't shy about.  

I mean, studies have shown that upwards of 95% of men will view hard core pornography in their lifetime. The biggest porn viewers are conservative Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, where many people are far more sheltered than US fundies. You don't have to have an uncle with some magazines; it's all online.

According to a recent Barna Group survey, 64% of U.S. men view pornography at least monthly, with 79% of men between 18 and 30 viewing it monthly. The percentages for Christian men and non-religious men were basically identical.

[nausicaa]

7 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

@nausicaa just in the past few years many porn stars have talked about how they were forced into scenes they didn't agree to, faced violent treatment by their co-stars that they didn't consent to, and even talked about what makes a "star" and how misleading many companies can be, considering only a few women actually become stars. There's interviews of porn stars talking about how you may not find work if you don't agree to do x, y, and z in the scene, which initially they were not keen to do. 

...

So it's silly to think that most porn is just women making a living and enjoying their job -- that may be true for some, but is far from the whole truth. Especially on the free porn sites, you don't know who posted it or who is making money from the posting. 

I agree that much of modern porn is degrading and troubling. It's not a job I would want to do, and I know a lot of people leave the business with problems.

However, that does not make it 1. sex trafficking, or 2. mean we should dismiss the autonomy of every women who may choose to do it. And the "that's someone's daughter" emotional appeal comes off as condescending and also endorsing the Madonna/Whore dichotomy to me. 

There are women who participate in sex work with mixed feelings about it. There are women who later come to regret it. But if they are adults and not being physically forced into it, why don't we leave the decisions up to them? Plenty of people don't enjoy their job or find it degrading. Plenty of women stay in relationships because they don't make enough money to support themselves or are afraid to be on their own. The line for "sex work" is a very grey one, if we're going to be honest about it. 

(I also agree that revenge porn is a problem, but thankfully laws have begun to catch up to the problem. And most videos on places like PornHub or YouPorn are not revenge porn. Many are produced videos and you can see the company that posted them.)

[Alisamer]

I think it's a little ironic to have a discussion about sex work on "10 minutes and lube, pump him dry, then spend his money" Lori's thread.  Lori doesn't want Ken to look at women who are openly making money for sex, but she definitely is eager to take his money in exchange for a few minutes of sex. All while SHE ogles women's butts and boobs on the beach. In order to post about how she wants to spank them, and whether their boobs are homegrown or store-bought. 

In a GODLY way, of course!

[delphinium65]

Today Lori says 'Thankfully, my husband and I were on the same team and knew we wanted to raise disciplined children. Any behavior that was obnoxious or annoying, we dealt with swiftly.'  Annoying.  ANNOYING!  Lori is openly admitting here that her 'discipline' was for her own convenience, so her children wouldn't annoy her, rather than for their benefit. 

[wallysmommy]

Lori is such a dope.  They didn't have Internet when she was a child and there was no cable so of course they didn't have television at her grandfather's cabin in the wilderness as she talks about so fondly on her doodle.  Well, some of my fondest memories were as a 6 or 7 year old watching soap operas with my grandmother.  I knew every character on Days of Our Lives.  My grandmother died in 1984, and I still miss her.  Your memories are what YOU make them, Lori.  I'm surprised you would go to a cabin where you might have to lift a finger to do something.  My bet is your parents made you go and you went kicking and screaming that you were "bored."

[louisa05]

When I was in college, two days a week (when none of us had band or choir), three friends and I got together in the dorm lounge with tea or cocoa and cookies and talked about life while watching/mocking the Brady Bunch reruns on TBS. 

TV can make memories, Lori. 

[Briefly]

Regarding the discussion on porn and how fundies find it - I am very strongly reminded of Josh Duggar and the Ashley Madison website.  I realize he was an adult at that point, although his earlier actions were when he was not adult.  But I would think that viewing of porn is probably a lot more widespread in fundy circles than most of them want to admit.  Just my opinion!

[freealljs]

 Lori mentioned before (unless I'm mistaken) that she made 5 yo Alyssa watch soap operas with her.  So, now Lori is saying that they didn't have a TV around that time?  

[kmachete14]

already maxed out my blood pressure posting today BUT also annoyed how men on the blog keep equating porn with reading romance novels/tv shows????? Some women actually watch porn when they want to get off . . . women are sexual, they don't JUST like chivalry and romance . . . also romance novels don't have shady ethical questions to ponder . . . also expecting your husband to sweep you off your feet with flowers and dinner sometimes is vastly different than expecting your wife to non-gratuitiously put out for hardcore sex acts??? 

[Free Jana Duggar]

I have no words. Say a prayer this guy isn't married...

 

[Lgirlrocks]

Excuse me Bryan quit speaking for all men. My man has no problem helping out around the house. My place is not in the kitchen. It is working, helping to take care of the house, spending time with our dogs, and contributing to the house. We both put in a lot of work into our lives. My boy friend is very happy with me. He doesn’t want a women who can’t make up her mind. He lacks empathy and if I don’t speak up about some things nothing would ever change. He wants me to tell him when something is bothering me. If he knows somethings is bothering me he will keep asking me until I talk about it. 

No relationship is ever 50/50 all of the time. I will be dusting for the rest of our lives together. He is allergic to dust and 70% of other things. He doesn’t like to do laundry because he is  afraid that he will mess up my stuff lol. I do most of the cooking because I love cooking. We both help with the cleaning. We both do trash. I do it more than him because of how our work schedules are. 

My parents who were conservative Christians both did house work. My dad worked a full time job and a part time job. My mom worked part time. My dad helped with the dishes, cleaning, and laundry. My dad did most of the laundry. My mom also had my siblings and me do chores. Everyone helped out. 

All relationships require work from both parties. This includes friendships which should be part of marriage. 

Jesus never said a women’s place was in the kitchen so I hope you don’t call yourself a Christian and feel that way. 

[Loveday]

19 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

Jesus never said a women’s place was in the kitchen so I hope you don’t call yourself a Christian and feel that way. 

He kind of said the opposite, in fact, when Martha complained to him that Mary wasn't helping her

Quote

As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!" "Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.

Nope, Jesus did NOT say a woman's place was in the kitchen. Or in the house, period.

[EmmaWoodhouse]

11 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

Ok so I have a question for the former/still having to hang on the fringe fundies here:  Is porn really that much of a problem within the fold?  Are we talking about Jenna Jamison, XX, XXX level videos and websites?  Or is it any show or picture that reveals overt amounts of skin or sex scenes that are more than gratuitous?

1

Former fundie here.  In my circles, porn was/is seen as anything remotely "immodest."  I knew some families that fast-forwarded The Sound of Music during the scene where Maria is changing, some families who didn't watch Titanic, and my closest childhood friends growing up always went to the beach in November to avoid seeing any skin.  "Porn" could be a tabloid in the checkout line with a bikini-clad celebrity or walking past the lingerie section in Macys.  If you're a fundie, "porn" is really easy to find because the definition is so broad.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Oh my Bryan B is single. Seriously? How could that wonderful man still be unmarried?  I'll bet woman are lining up to date and then crawl behind him.  That lends a new whole meaning to women following 3 steps behind their husbands.

I'm sooooo glad he explained it all to me.  [inset eyeroll and sarcasm emojis here]