Michelle 2: Mom of 13 & YouTuber Accused of Neglect on Dr. Phil

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just based on the Dr Phil interviews, denial is a very regular coping mechanism in Michelle’s life. If she actually had to face all the wrongs she did to her children over the years, she would likely fall apart. 

[ViolaSebastian]

12 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

OMG she’s finally admitting she’s been ignorant about Down Syndrome and is glad to know NOW that Millie’s heart issue is the most common one for babies with DS. 

She says Millie likely needs to have a GI surgery. She has digestive issues.

Millie hasn’t had a bowel movement yet and is having trouble gaining weight. They’ve been referred to a geneticist, gastroenterologist, and an endocrinologist. They don’t know if Millie has Mosaic DS or DS yet.

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but a week and a half after birth and no bowel movement...isn't that some sort of pressing emergency?

[Alisamer]

31 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but a week and a half after birth and no bowel movement...isn't that some sort of pressing emergency?

I personally would be very worried. Especially with a DS baby who is known to have other medical issues. But maybe it's not quite an emergency, IDK. Don't most babies start the pooping meconium pretty soon after (and sometimes just before) birth?

So her baby was diagnosed with Down Syndrome, and known to have holes in her heart, and she had a home birth? I mean, I am generally a fan of home birth, but that is a situation where it is NOT A GOOD IDEA. The hospital is the place to deal with medical emergencies, and a baby with holes in her heart sounds to me like a potential emergency. And not bothering to research Down Syndrome at ALL ahead of time? That sounds like neglect, to me. You'd think she'd want to have info ahead of time, to plan for the baby's potential needs. 

[kesmom]

I have only watched a few videos, but in one she mentioned that she had been dropped by an OB well into the pregnancy. Does she mention why in any other videos? There are multiple possibilities for this woman. 

 

That is definitely concerning if she hasn’t had a bowel movement yet. Meconium should be passed by now. I’m glad she’s not opposed to supplementing but I hope she won’t hesitate to use formula if needed. Her adult daughter may not be able to keep up with her needs. It’s prr common for older moms to have supply issues. 

[ViolaSebastian]

I suppose my worry would be -- what if it's more than "just"* a constipation issue, and there's something structural going on? Something that would be made worse by continuing to feed her. I dunno, I just can't imagine being blase about that at all.

 

*Not that constipation can't be an enormous issue in and of itself.

 

[Blessings of the Corn]

I can't with woman. I can't even watch a few minutes of her videos - bless you who do. I can't believe her ignorance on DS. If my doctor told me my baby would probably, or even possibly, have DS I would do ALL of the research I could get my hands on. My little sister had DS and it can come with a HOST of physical issues, mainly the hole in the heart. Honestly, the intellectual delays/differences is the least of what DS causes.

[ViolaSebastian]

44 minutes ago, Blessings of the Corn said:

I can't with woman. I can't even watch a few minutes of her videos - bless you who do. I can't believe her ignorance on DS. If my doctor told me my baby would probably, or even possibly, have DS I would do ALL of the research I could get my hands on. My little sister had DS and it can come with a HOST of physical issues, mainly the hole in the heart. Honestly, the intellectual delays/differences is the least of what DS causes.

That struck me as strange, too. She said there was no research about giving birth to babies with Down Syndrome. A quick search of EBSCO, an academic search engine, brought up 1,044 articles with that theme. And that's not even a specifically medically-oriented search engine. 

[Runningfromreality]

16 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

She is telling us HOW to have a girl. She says there is a trick and it works, “NO orgasm during sex”.

I hate to tell her, but I'm currently cuddling with a baby girl who disproves that this is THE way to have a girl. 

[luv2laugh]

Out of all the things she does not worry about, e.g. kids with suicidal ideation, depression, homeschooling, home-birthing a baby with cardiac issues, etc. she is worried about why Baby Millie has not yet had much of a bowel movement. 

In the last video, she said that while it’s “normal” for DS babies to not yet have a bowel movement, she’s worried because not much of the meconium has been passed. She called the pediatrician about it and was frustrated that he wasn’t but listening to her and told her as long as the baby is nursing, not to be worried. She said she is dropping the pediatrician and looking for one that will listen to her.

She admitted she’s been ignorant about DS and needs to keep reminding herself that Baby Millie will be different (in terms of milestones) than her other 12 kids. She’s worried about Millie’s GI issues and that she hasn’t been gaining weight.

Michelle has not been doing hard-core DS research until now. She said that she, personally, did know for certain (in her own mind) that Millie would have DS until after giving birth. I believe she was choosing avoidance as a coping mechanism... She stated that from the beginning of the pregnancy, they were told Millie had DS markers and a had a high chance of a DS diagnosis. 

Clearly, Michelle has been playing “catch-up” to educate herself on DS now...

Alarmingly, she has made subtle references to a future pregnancy such as “next time” and other things that make it clear she wants to get pregnant again ASAP. It’s disgustingly selfish. She has neglected kids at home with emotional and educational issues as well as a special needs baby to focus on...

Edited March 6, 2019 by luv2laugh

[ViolaSebastian]

I just went down a rabbit hole researching Down Syndrome and issues with the digestive tract. It is TERRIFYING. I would be up in a doctor's face if this were my kid, holy hell.

https://www.ndss.org/resources/gastrointestinal-tract-syndrome/

[Lisafer]

For anyone who doesn't know, preferred terminology for people with Down Syndrome is "person with Down Syndrome" or "baby with Down Syndrome," not "DS baby," "Down's baby," or "Down Syndrome child."  People-first language. 

I am concerned to hear about the pooping issue. I hope the baby is ok. 

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I think she refused to educate herself about DS until after the birth as a coping mechanism. It was easier for her to avoid it.

She should have been making DS awareness videos months ago. She was told right away, early in the pregnancy that the baby had DS but admitted she didn’t know for certain until after the birth. 

The videos she’s making come off as if she is only doing research about DS right now.

All of this was reminding me of something and it finally clicked - the author of "Naturally Better" had a homebirth with her third child who was (allegedly - based on her descriptions I was dubious) only diagnosed with Down Syndrome at birth. They started googling at that point, missed/ignored all the local resources and went with a paediatric nautropath on the other side of the world who would help them "cure" (yes, that is the word used in the book) their son.  I think I threw the book across the room about three times, and I ended up pretty much hate-reading by the end. 

I think Michelle was in denial up until the point she couldn't avoid it. I suspect the obstetrician dropping her was over her wanting a homebirth - if you have someone who is disregarding all the professional advice you are trying to give then it is a waste of your and their time (and money) to continue. 

[Spinosaurus]

I have been advised that people on the autistic spectrum should be called 'autistic people' rather than 'people with autism,' in the same way that you wouldn't say that a gay person was 'a person with homosexuality.'  Apparently person-first language is not always preferred.  Don't know what it is with people with learning disabilities, though.

[ViolaSebastian]

It's interesting, she made a lot about the cardiologist apologizing to her and telling her that she was in the right, etc. My impression from that encounter is that the cardiologist was trying to re-establish a relationship with the parents that was in the best interest of the baby going forward. I don't necessarily think he condoned her homebirth; I think he just wanted the dust to settle to focus on caring for Millie.

[Spinosaurus]

@Ozlsn: they wanted to 'cure' (!!!!) Down's Syndrome via naturopathy?  God in a bucket.

[Blessings of the Corn]

6 minutes ago, Spinosaurus said:

I have been advised that people on the autistic spectrum should be called 'autistic people' rather than 'people with autism,' in the same way that you wouldn't say that a gay person was 'a person with homosexuality.'  Apparently person-first language is not always preferred.  Don't know what it is with people with learning disabilities, though.

This is true. My autistic friends definitely prefer this term and hate to be seen as someone with a "disease that needs curing". They are happy how they are.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

18 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

 

She is telling us HOW to have a girl. She says there is a trick and it works, “NO orgasm during sex”.

In that case I would guess all fundy babies would be girls.  

[Hane]

Yes, it’s an enormous concern that little Millie was born with holes in her heart, but if my baby didn’t start regular bowel movements within a day of being born I’d be at the pediatrician’s office STAT. What @ViolaSebastian cited above would be the FIRST thing that would occur to me. I’ve never heard of a baby being “constipated” when consuming nothing but breast milk.

[luv2laugh]

I agree. It's concerning that the baby hasn't had a bowel movement (I didn't mean to minimize that in above post because I meant to emphasize that Michelle is worried about this issue compared to her past of not worrying about anything). If I were Michelle and could not get into a pediatrician, I would take the baby to urgent care. She "fired" the other pediatrician because she/he told her over the phone not to be worried about it as long as the baby is nursing.

I'm assuming Michelle does not want to get into just "any" pediatrician or go to a walk-in urgent care clinic because she will likely be criticized about being anti-vaccination and home-birthing Millie.

Edited March 6, 2019 by luv2laugh

[Lisafer]

49 minutes ago, Spinosaurus said:

I have been advised that people on the autistic spectrum should be called 'autistic people' rather than 'people with autism,' in the same way that you wouldn't say that a gay person was 'a person with homosexuality.'  Apparently person-first language is not always preferred.  Don't know what it is with people with learning disabilities, though.

http://smileondownsyndrome.org/what-is-down-syndrome/people-first-language/

[Spinosaurus]

Thanks.  I'm disabled and don't really give a shit if people call me a 'person with epilepsy' or an 'epileptic person,' but I know it's important to other people with disabilities.  

[Lisafer]

4 minutes ago, Spinosaurus said:

Thanks.  I'm disabled and don't really give a shit if people call me a 'person with epilepsy' or an 'epileptic person,' but I know it's important to other people with disabilities.  

I know it's different on an individual level, for sure. I have mental illness. I don't mind when my friends call me crazy, but I'd be offended if somebody called me "that depressed person," lol.

[Ozlsn]

 

 

1 hour ago, Spinosaurus said:

@Ozlsn: they wanted to 'cure' (!!!!) Down's Syndrome via naturopathy?  God in a bucket.

Oh but they did! You wouldn't even know he was Downs Syndrome now!  They spent at least (conservative estimate here) $10,000 on NAET to cure his 'allergies' to (amongst other things) his own testosterone, and to reshape his face so it wasn't as 'obvious'. Plus supplements. Plus one of the most labor-intensive therapy courses I've ever heard of - my suspicion is that if you're spending that amount of time focusing on a child it is probably going to have an effect,  whether you're re-directing their limbs through the evolutionary stages of development (that bit made me laugh out loud) or playing chasey, drawing and painting, and reading them stories. 

It was one of the simultaneously most infuriating ("of course the author is anti-vax") and hilarious ("you cured what?!") books I've ever read, and I like to think my half-star review contributed to it being culled from our local library. She still has a local following though, and I first came across her via a friend who was considering going on one of her courses. No idea if she ended up going or not, although given the cost I suspect not.

The really stupid thing is I suspect her son has mosaic DS, and probably would be at the same point if they'd just taken him to the locally funded speech and occupational therapy groups.

Edit: I just looked up my library review. She actually says "I will fix you" to her newborn, multiple times. That was the first time the book got airborne.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Ozlsn
Oh yeah, I'd blocked out that bit

[Briefly]

I agree, she was probably deeply in denial before Millie was born. She didn't want a child with any disability, so she ignored the fact that her daughter probably had Downs.  Then when Millie was born, she was caught short.  I don't know a whole lot about Downs, but I would be very concerned that the baby has not had a bowel movement and would run as fast as I could to a pediatrician or urgent care.

[luv2laugh]

I hope that she reports with good news tonight when she goes live. Baby Millie is very sweet. She always shows her at the beginning and end. I want the best for Millie. If you watch yesterday's live video, when she shows Baby Millie at the end, she smiles in her sleep.

Michelle said they are supposed to meet with the cardiologist at the end of the week and hear from the gastroenterologist. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by luv2laugh