Michelle 2: Mom of 13 & YouTuber Accused of Neglect on Dr. Phil

[Ozlsn]

@ViolaSebastian thank you for that - if I'd watched I probably would have had to replace my phone after it hit the wall too many times. There is not enough WTF for that.

32 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

She says that she should have "literally" lost River

I don't even know where to start with that.

[ViolaSebastian]

4 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

@ViolaSebastian thank you for that - if I'd watched I probably would have had to replace my phone after it hit the wall too many times. There is not enough WTF for that.

I don't even know where to start with that.

She made reference that he was suicidal and she acknowledged that there were times he almost attempted, but "actual psychiatric help" didn't seem to be a route that they were willing to go when they "tried everything." 

[JermajestyDuggar]

This woman is infuriating. 

[llucie]

On 3/15/2019 at 10:19 PM, ViolaSebastian said:

 

6. Ron chews tobacco. The roots of his teeth are apparently showing. I know you're all comforted to know the sole provider of a household with eight minor children is a tobacco user.

 

 

Is she trying to expose her husband with this comment? since mormons are not suposed to use tobacco...also mentioning this in a vlog about how bad drugs are...

Edited March 16, 2019 by llucie

[Soulhuntress]

15 hours ago, llucie said:

Is she trying to expose her husband with this comment? since mormons are not suposed to use tobacco...also mentioning this in a vlog about how bad drugs are...

She exposed his drinking as well.  I kind of get the "Jack Mormon" vibe from the family.

[ViolaSebastian]

Okay everyone, grab your favorite tea cup and hold onto your butts, here comes a whole HOUR of Michelle.

1. She starts off by showing Millie. Millie is absolutely adorable and has on a very cute zip up onesie. 

2. Rod likes it when Michelle wears her hair down and disapproves of leggings, so Michelle wears her hair up and wears leggings when he's at work. Michelle says we should be dressing for "one man," our husband, and us ladies need to cater to our husband's preferences for clothing and hairstyles. 

3. A viewer asks for advice about her sons fighting. Michelle says that her trick is to give them a project to work on together. She also takes this opportunity to say that public schools encourage bullying because they segregate by age, which teaches older kids that it's okay to pick on younger ones. She says that it's important that her house is a safe place with no arguing, bullying, or teasing. Notably absent from the conversation is the fact that she admitted that both she and the whole family made fun of River when he was misusing drugs and struggling with his mental health.

4. Michelle created an Instagram account for Millie Rose. She writes captions from Millie Rose's perspective. Words cannot describe how much I loathe this woman.

5. Someone mentions that her kids have started to pick up lying. Michelle recommends a book called "Alexander's Amazing Adventures," which she says is a little "babyish," but that teenagers will like it too. A brief investigation concluded that the books are for 2-12-year-olds and teens would not be caught dead reading them.

6. Michelle tells a story about when her piano teacher accused her of stealing her class ring. Apparently they found the ring in a couch cushion, but the damage was done and Michelle's reputation was shattered because this piano teacher told everyone at church and in the community that she was a thief. She says she knew from then on she didn't want to be considered a liar and that the truth was important. 

7. Michelle tries to do a British accent. It's horrifying nightmare fuel.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

8. Michelle says that Millie is with Daily, the older daughter, and that it's difficult for Michelle to let the other kids hold her. She also makes a comment about how she can't keep the same schedule with Millie that she did with the other kids. She does not elaborate on this point. 

9. Someone asks if any of Michelle's children have disabilities or health issues. She makes it a big point to say that none of her kids have been diagnosed with anything (???????????), but that Millie has Down Syndrome and a double heart defect (!!!!!!!!!!!!). Also, Michelle. YOUR KID IS DEPRESSED. YOUR KID IS DEPRESSEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. Um, yes, so anyway, Millie has a large VSD and a large ASD.

10. Michelle extols the virtues of being an older mother. She says that she and Rod wanted more kids, but Michelle had a pulmonary embolism when she had the twins, and it took her awhile to recover. Alarmingly, Michelle mentions that she and Rod might adopt. 

11. Michelle talks about how people shouldn't worry about disabilities, and says "disabilties, schmabilities, we all have some kind of disability or hang-up." God, fuck this woman so hard. Then she says "I've had kids with depression, but they weren't DIAGNOSED with depression," she's had "kids who had thoughts of suicide but they aren't suicidal--I mean, they don't live with it all the time," (THAT'S NOT HOW SUICIDAL IDEATION WORKS!!) "I have kids with borderline genius, but they haven't been tested with it." Disabilities don't matter to Michelle, she doesn't care if you're in a wheelchair--she just wants to help you. (Christ on a cracker, this is awful...)

12. The kids were not allowed to do sports, because she couldn't drive them all around to different places, etc. 

13. Someone suggests that thinking about those less fortunate than you can help you appreciate what you have. Michelle melts down at this point and talks about how difficult of a time she's having. She starts to cry and talks about how disappointed she is that she can only nurse Millie for a minimal amount of time and has to pump the rest of the time. She's also clearly in agony at the thought of Millie having to have surgery. 

14. Michelle goes on a "isn't it great that dads are providers and women are nurturers" rant.

15. Michelle wants you to know she doesn't yell at her kids, no matter what was said on Dr. Phil.

[Beermeet]

On 3/11/2019 at 5:45 PM, ViolaSebastian said:

I just can't with the sleeping on the mattress face down surrounded by blankets--it scares the crap out of me. It would with an entirely healthy baby as well. I've had a personal experience with babies and blankets (keeping it vague for confidentiality sake) and it was a bad outcome. We don't know how attentive Michelle is when Millie is sleeping--and it only takes a moment. Gosh, I can't express how nervous it makes me. 

No matter how safe I felt with what surrounded my newborn/infant,  I still would triple ck and wake up from a dead sleep to ck and make sure. That didn't lessen with #2 either. The primal goal is to keep them alive. Simple as that. This crazy lady seems to lack not only primal urges but consistently does so throughout her kids childhood and early adulthood.  

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Okay everyone, grab your favorite tea cup and hold onto your butts, here comes a whole HOUR of Michelle.

2. Rod likes it when Michelle wears her hair down and disapproves of leggings, so Michelle wears her hair up and wears leggings when he's at work. Michelle says we should be dressing for "one man," our husband, and us ladies need to cater to our husband's preferences for clothing and hairstyles. 

3. A viewer asks for advice about her sons fighting. Michelle says that her trick is to give them a project to work on together. She also takes this opportunity to say that public schools encourage bullying because they segregate by age, which teaches older kids that it's okay to pick on younger ones. She says that it's important that her house is a safe place with no arguing, bullying, or teasing. Notably absent from the conversation is the fact that she admitted that both she and the whole family made fun of River when he was misusing drugs and struggling with his mental health.

4. Michelle created an Instagram account for Millie Rose. She writes captions from Millie Rose's perspective. Words cannot describe how much I loathe this woman.
 

8. Michelle says that Millie is with Daily, the older daughter, and that it's difficult for Michelle to let the other kids hold her. She also makes a comment about how she can't keep the same schedule with Millie that she did with the other kids. She does not elaborate on this point. 

9. Someone asks if any of Michelle's children have disabilities or health issues. She makes it a big point to say that none of her kids have been diagnosed with anything (???????????), but that Millie has Down Syndrome and a double heart defect (!!!!!!!!!!!!). Also, Michelle. YOUR KID IS DEPRESSED. YOUR KID IS DEPRESSEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. Um, yes, so anyway, Millie has a large VSD and a large ASD.

 10. Michelle extols the virtues of being an older mother. She says that she and Rod wanted more kids, but Michelle had a pulmonary embolism when she had the twins, and it took her awhile to recover. Alarmingly, Michelle mentions that she and Rod might adopt. 

 11. Michelle talks about how people shouldn't worry about disabilities, and says "disabilties, schmabilities, we all have some kind of disability or hang-up." God, fuck this woman so hard. Then she says "I've had kids with depression, but they weren't DIAGNOSED with depression," she's had "kids who had thoughts of suicide but they aren't suicidal--I mean, they don't live with it all the time," (THAT'S NOT HOW SUICIDAL IDEATION WORKS!!) "I have kids with borderline genius, but they haven't been tested with it." Disabilities don't matter to Michelle, she doesn't care if you're in a wheelchair--she just wants to help you. (Christ on a cracker, this is awful...)

 12. The kids were not allowed to do sports, because she couldn't drive them all around to different places, etc. 

13. Someone suggests that thinking about those less fortunate than you can help you appreciate what you have. Michelle melts down at this point and talks about how difficult of a time she's having. She starts to cry and talks about how disappointed she is that she can only nurse Millie for a minimal amount of time and has to pump the rest of the time. She's also clearly in agony at the thought of Millie having to have surgery. 

 14. Michelle goes on a "isn't it great that dads are providers and women are nurturers" rant.

 15. Michelle wants you to know she doesn't yell at her kids, no matter what was said on Dr. Phil.

2. Did Michelle take a page out of Gothard's book?

3. She makes me sick. She doesn't care about being a MOTHER to ALL of her children. No... She only cares about the cute babies and the attention she receives from her pregnancies.  If she actually cared about ALL of her children, River's issues would break her heart. The other child that talked about self-harm would break her heart. She'd want to do everything in her power to get them help. She only talks about the older children when she's shit talking them on the internet to the world. 

4. Is she crazy? Does she need MORE social media? Rod said that she neglects the kids for YouTube on live TV. An Instagram account for Millie? Honestly, this is bizarre. Why not spend the extra time educating yourself on Millie's health conditions or tending to your other kids? Michelle ONLY cares about the babies. I fear for how Millie will be treated once she's no longer a baby based on how she refers to the other older kids such as Chantry (sp?), Sunshine, and River...

8. She says she can't keep the same schedule? I'm interested in what she means by that...

10. ADOPTION? PLEASE NO. That child would not receive any love as it would be literally thrown into "the Michelle system" and fend for any sort of affection... How heartbreaking. She literally does not seem to value her children once they are no longer babies. It's almost as if she views her kids similar to a bad pet owner who is crazy about the CUTE PUPPY and once it's 1 years old, it's old news...

11. It's disgusting that she is not taking her children's depression and threat of self-harm seriously.

14. Again, she sounds like she is a die-hard Gothard follower and I would have believed it if we didn't know she was Mormon.


 

Edited March 19, 2019 by luv2laugh

[Ozlsn]

31 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Alarmingly, Michelle mentions that she and Rod might adopt. 

Any agency that would approve this needs to be firstly investigated and secondly shut down.

[Ozlsn]

56 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

15. Michelle wants you to know she doesn't yell at her kids, no matter what was said on Dr. Phil.

So she raised how many liars then? Obviously that book doesn't work. Nice gaslighting your kids there Michelle, and - just so you know - we all think you're a liar. Rewriting reality in your head doesn't make it truth.

56 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Michelle melts down at this point and talks about how difficult of a time she's having. She starts to cry and talks about how disappointed she is that she can only nurse Millie for a minimal amount of time and has to pump the rest of the time. She's also clearly in agony at the thought of Millie having to have surgery. 

This is actually the one point I have some sympathy for her. Walking into the unknown worlds of NICU and early intervention and medically complex children can be terrifying and overwhelming. Having something not work how you thought it would  (breastfeeding) can be the cherry on top of the crap sundae. I suspect she is talking about the breastfeeding when she says she can't follow the same routine as she did with the others - she seems to have less milk and Millie's needs may mean she isn't able to adequately latch and/or needs to feed more often. If all Michelle is able to do is pump and then bottle feed instead of breastfeeding or even using the SNS then that may be really upsetting. (She should still be adding in calories with approved formulas though, ffs. Not this yoghurt or whatever the hell it was.) 

Has Millie seen any more specialists since the endo does anyone know?

Edited March 19, 2019 by Ozlsn
Er... thought I'd done an edit and added to my previous post. Anyone know why the posts didn't merge?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I bet she won’t adopt. So many fundies say it but never do. I’m sure she just wants her humpers to fawn all over her about it. 

[ViolaSebastian]

If I had to guess, when she talks abut how she can't keep the same schedule with Millie, I believe she's referring to a breast feeding schedule. It seems that she has to breastfeed for five minutes and then pump, as well as carefully monitor how much she's eating and for how long- which I imagine is very different than doing on-demand feeding.

[Ali]

8 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

It seems that she has to breastfeed for five minutes and then pump, as well as carefully monitor how much she's eating and for how long-

Five minutes is not long enough for a baby that young to get to the fatty part of the milk. I was told newborns need to nurse at least 10 minutes per side to get fatty milk. It seems like this baby is struggling to eat. If I were her mom, I would probably be switching over to exclusively pumping and formula. Nursing requires more energy than bottle feeding. 

[Joyleaf]

1 hour ago, Ali said:

Five minutes is not long enough for a baby that young to get to the fatty part of the milk. I was told newborns need to nurse at least 10 minutes per side to get fatty milk. It seems like this baby is struggling to eat. If I were her mom, I would probably be switching over to exclusively pumping and formula.

If she pumps after 5 minutes Millie gets the fattier milk via bottle so that doesn't really matter (apart from the whole fore- and hindmilk thing not being that clear cut either anyway).

It is also a possibility to mix formula with breastmilk to help babies gain weight.
There are so many sane options Michelle could choose...

[Hane]

2 hours ago, Ali said:

Five minutes is not long enough for a baby that young to get to the fatty part of the milk. I was told newborns need to nurse at least 10 minutes per side to get fatty milk. It seems like this baby is struggling to eat. If I were her mom, I would probably be switching over to exclusively pumping and formula. Nursing requires more energy than bottle feeding. 

This reminds me of the reason my paternal grandmother’s doctor gave her to have her stop nursing her ninth and final child back in 1940—he said her milk was “too thin.” In actuality, besides her nine live births, she had had at least a dozen miscarriages, and had been advised not to get pregnant again. He probably saw that she was exhausted, needed a break, and had at least one teenaged daughter who could help her out.

[ViolaSebastian]

I thought it was an interesting bit of mental gymnastics that she knows Millie's heart defect, but still believes, somehow, that she hasn't been diagnosed with a heart defect. Clearly, if they know the exact nature of the heart issue, she's been given a formal diagnosis. I also have a hard time believing that out of 13 kids, Millie is the only one who has some sort of physical issue. You're telling me no one has asthma or allergies or febrile seizures or anything? And we know that mental health issues in the family are ignored, that much is apparent. 

It was also interesting to watch Michelle say that she didn't care if someone had disabilities and then openly weep over Millie's disability. She also says she "doesn't care," but in the same breath talks about caring enough to "help" people with disabilities out--which can be really frustrating at times for people with disabilities. I can only speak for myself, but I like to be treated as though I can do something until I need to *ask* for help, you know? I'm an intellectually typical person, but some people think that all physical problems have a cognitive component. And I just don't even have words for her comparison of a disability with a "hang up." Chronic pain, for example, is very different than a fear of commitment or an aversion to spiders.

Edited March 19, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Dreadcrumbs]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

It was also interesting to watch Michelle say that she didn't care if someone had disabilities and then openly weep over Millie's disability. She also says she "doesn't care," but in the same breath talks about caring enough to "help" people with disabilities out--which can be really frustrating at times for people with disabilities. I can only speak for myself, but I like to be treated as though I can do something until I need to *ask* for help, you know? I'm an intellectually typical person, but some people think that all physical problems have a cognitive component. And I just don't even have words for her comparison of a disability with a "hang up." Chronic pain, for example, is very different than a fear of commitment or an aversion to spiders.

I hate when assumptions are made about what I can or can't do with my disabilities or what I need help with. By all means offer help if it looks like I'm struggling but please presume competence.

[ViolaSebastian]

9 minutes ago, Dreadcrumbs said:

I hate when assumptions are made about what I can or can't do with my disabilities or what I need help with. By all means offer help if it looks like I'm struggling but please presume competence.

I've found that kids, regardless of ability, dislike it when you assume they can't do something or "baby" them--and that doesn't change for kids with differences, either. As adults, we at least have experience with putting people off politely and having patience; kids, not so much. I think Michelle and Rod have just started one heck of a learning adventure.

[ViolaSebastian]

I went and sought out Michelle's Instagram for Millie Rose. (I almost typed "Millie Rose's Instagram, but uh...that is not what's going on here; this is Michelle's work). In any case, she's only posted a few pics, and they seem pretty mundane. The only thing that left be a little put-off is that she included the "down right perfect!" thing in Millie's birth announcement.

[Briefly]

She is beautiful, absolutely precious.

I don't see Michelle being able to adopt, she strikes me as someone who thinks it's easy.  I don't think she would have any clue as to how difficult and involved the process can be.  Much less how expensive it can be.  And also, I don't see any way that they would be able to pass a home study.

[Melissa1977]

9 hours ago, Briefly said:

She is beautiful, absolutely precious.

I don't see Michelle being able to adopt, she strikes me as someone who thinks it's easy.  I don't think she would have any clue as to how difficult and involved the process can be.  Much less how expensive it can be.  And also, I don't see any way that they would be able to pass a home study.

Adopting is a long way, first of all filling the papers is a time investment she's not willing  to do. Second, the money. Third, the home study (while unfortunately we all know cruel couples who passed the study through Christian agencies). Fourth, they are not young and parents age may be an issue. Fifth, the baby is too little to legally start adopting.

I think the eventual adopted child is safe. No way he or she is going to that hell.

[Soulhuntress]

LDS Social Services has a not so pretty adoption record.  But the required temple recommend may disqualify this Fibe family.   https://providentliving.lds.org/lds-family-services/adoption-resources/getting-started?lang=eng

[eightykatie]

This lady is indeed a whole piece of work!

My only hope for the younger children is that the older (adult) children look like they have fairly stable lives.  Hopefully the older kids can be a resource for the ones still stuck at home.

Edited March 20, 2019 by eightykatie

[Ozlsn]

On 3/16/2019 at 8:58 AM, ViolaSebastian said:

She made reference that he was suicidal and she acknowledged that there were times he almost attempted, but "actual psychiatric help" didn't seem to be a route that they were willing to go when they "tried everything." 

I found out last night that the 21 yo son of people I went to school with committed suicide in December. His parents had absolutely no idea - he seemed fine, no different to any other time. If they had realised they would have moved heaven and earth to help him - his father is helping run an event this weekend to help other young men who might need to talk about how they are feeling.

I cannot get over how detached Michelle and Rod seem from River's mental health problems.