Bates 26: Do Not Attempt This at Home

[TeaELSee]

35 minutes ago, LegHumperBibleThumper said:

Looks like Buffalo Chicken dip with cheddar on top

No, it had pasta in it and she called it a casserole. I am obsessed with knowing what this is.

[llucie]

In the last episode Katie stated that enrolling in cosmetology was a last minute decision, but that she still wants to pursue nursing after. So weird. Maybe her family is not paying for the nursing degree but was paying for the cosmetology one, so she plans on working as an hairdresser to pay for the nursing degree herself? 

[carmenp97]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

No, it had pasta in it and she called it a casserole. I am obsessed with knowing what this is.

There is a casserole version of buffalo chicken dip with pasta running around on Pinterest. It does look like Buffalo Chicken Dip to me as well. It gets the pink interior color from the Buffalo sauce.

[rebeccawriter01]

3 hours ago, llucie said:

In the last episode Katie stated that enrolling in cosmetology was a last minute decision, but that she still wants to pursue nursing after. So weird. Maybe her family is not paying for the nursing degree but was paying for the cosmetology one, so she plans on working as an hairdresser to pay for the nursing degree herself? 

Since Crown just started its nursing program, it is best that she does postpone a bit. Fledgling programs that require scrutiny and accreditation are notorious for bumps at first. Given the evidence her siblings have shown of lack of education, she'd struggle with getting accepted anywhere other than Crown's program. 

She'll probably be married and have two kids before she ever thought again to apply anyway. I just can't see Gil and Kelly Jo being okay with nursing as a choice for her when she'd have to be exposed to and touching things she's not supposed to know about until the wedding night. 

[nausicaa]

7 hours ago, HereticHick said:

"The High Price of a Sensual Woman" sounds like some sort of 1980s Jackie Collins-style beach read. And guilty pleasure tv movie

I can totally see Joan Collins angrily yet seductively click clacking her way around the pool patio in her satin bedroom slippers. 

[TeaELSee]

8 hours ago, carmenp97 said:

There is a casserole version of buffalo chicken dip with pasta running around on Pinterest. It does look like Buffalo Chicken Dip to me as well. It gets the pink interior color from the Buffalo sauce.

Wait, so you eat it on a plate like pasta, but it’s a dip?

[fluffernutter]

Maybe the bright orange comes from velveeta cheese? Orange slices of plastic-wrapped cheese? ? 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

42 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

Wait, so you eat it on a plate like pasta, but it’s a dip?

It’s a pasta with a sauce that’s basically thinned-out Buffalo chicken dip.

[just_ordinary]

7 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

It’s a pasta with a sauce that’s basically thinned-out Buffalo chicken dip.

This sounds disgusting and delicious at the same time....

[QuiverDance]

I would eat the hell out of that casserole. ?‍♀️

[formergothardite]

The Dangers of Getting a Wrong Perspective in Life

This was one of Gil's talks from last year. And it took me forever to watch this one. 

Spoiler

 

~It is easy to leave the conferences thinking that life is going to be easier after learning so much, but finding it isn't.

~It can be frustrating when people who are living a worldly life do better than you do. 

~Gil asked IBLP teens to ask him questions about the ATI life(he calls it the Christian life but what he means is ATI), One question he got over and over was is it worth it to live by these strict rules. 

~Gil is wanting amens again. He does this  thing where he clearly expects an amen so he puts his hand behind his ear and leans forward while he waits for people to amen him. If people Amen it isn't picked up on the video because there always seems to be silence. This is a student session again, maybe the teens aren't buying what he is selling. 

~If you are taking notes write this down. Gil says this. So here is the important thing he wants us all to write down. The principle to live by is that truly God is good. 

~Gil isn't one of those once saved always saved folks. He says if you ever start thinking God isn't good you risk losing your faith. 

~Gil rambles off into a story about how the night before there was a man sitting in front who was in a wheel chair and he had no legs. None of us would ever want to be in his place, but God is still good. 

~Wanting another amen put his hand to his ear and leaned forward. 

~A guy asked Gil to play golf. He would like to play golf more often but he can't work it into his schedule. One of the guys hit his ball into a pond that had a big sign that says keep out in front of it. I am not following this story but the guy fell in on accident and couldn't get out but Gil didn't notice for almost ten minutes. The moral of this story is that if you go on the edge of your wall of protection you might slip and be unable to get out. This will be especially true if you have friends who don't notice that your are drowning. 

~Don't be jealous when the world prospers and you don't. 

~People who write near death experience books are lying because if you don't know Jesus it won't be a nice afterlife. Gil again puts his hand to his ear and leans forward for an Amen. 

~Gil meets with people he knows aren't saved but they tell him they have peace with God and aren't worried about dying and going to hell. He knows they are just delusional. 

~If your parents have a ton of kids and you live in a tiny house don't be jealous of people who have more. 

~Another story. Gil says that he has heard of people who will get up and say that to prove God is real he needs to strike them dead in one minute. The story stops there. There is nothing else to it. He is rambling on about other stuff. 

~Non-Christians are on tv, they play sports and are even in our government. This is terrible. 

~We are apparently back to the story of the people asking God to strike them dead in one minute except now it is five minutes. A wise Christian came up to them and told them they couldn't exhaust the long suffering of God in five minutes. 

~Gil puts his hand to his ear and leans forward for an amen. 

~I sort of zoned out at this point because he is quoting Bible verses and ranting about the worldly people getting riches. But he asks for an amen. 

~I went to make tea, come back and he is saying we should pray to be poor so we will have to depend on God. He is also wanting an Amen again. 

~A swear Gil takes five minutes to slowly read Bible verse. He keeps pausing between words. 

~We are back to the man who lost his legs. God took his legs to make sure he became a Christian. You would think there would be a better way than that.

~Gil says Christians have problems, then puts his hand to his ear and leans in for an Amen. This is such an annoying habit. 

~Gil talks about the importance of staying pure from the things of the world. I guess this doesn't apply to selling your children's lives on television. 

~No matter how awful things are never let yourself think that God isn't good. 

~It is now 20 minutes in and he is going to give us the answer to all of life's problems. Go to God. That is the answer. Gil wants an amen. 

~Gil says he looks at the people who take the path his family has taken and says that it is God's path.  He gives himself an amen after he says this. 

~Gil has never been in the mafia, but he has heard about. It seems like mafia members are doing good, but Gil has seen their end. He leans in with his hand behind his ear for an amen. 

~Gil then goes into a story about how when non-Christians are dying you can often hear them start screaming as they realize they are going to hell. I don't think that is real. 

And I gave up at this point because I still had 25 more minutes of Gil droning on. The asking for amens seems to be a habit he picked up in his more recent videos because it wasn't in the earliest video he did. It is really annoying and he should break himself of it. 

 

 

 

[formergothardite]

The talk about good kids verses godly kids is a bit misleading because the picture shows Kelly talking but it is Gil instead, Kelly doesn't show up till briefly at the end.  I just skipped around on this one. The basic message is that it doesn't matter if you have polite children who care about others, what matters is if they are godly. And the rest of it is devoted to Carlin. 

A better title for this talk would be "How We Really Fucked Up Carlin" 

Spoiler

 

One daughter made a commitment to enhance her communion with God. She then started "ministering" to her siblings to encourage them to do the same. Gil says that siblings are one of your biggest ministries because they can't leave when they live in the house with you. He suggests giving your siblings candy to keep them listening to you. The Bates kids started having all night prayer meetings and then they started fasting. Gil did not even notice this was going on and he admits he often isn't in tune with what his kids are doing. He didn't learn about this till later. So then Carlin who was 13 came to him at the end of the year to tell him what commitments she had made to God and how she kept them. She decided to read her Bible 10 minutes a day, pray 10 minutes a day, memorize scriptures 10 minutes a day and witness to one person each day for the entire year. So every time she met a new person she would ask them if they were reading their Bible, praying, memorizing scripture and witnessing like they should be doing. She then guilted them into joining her accountability group by asking them "So Jesus died for you and you can't even read the Bible for ten minutes each day?!" or "Do you know how much Jesus suffered and you won't even pray?"

People complained that this daughter would put pressure on them, but that was what she was supposed to do. She then told everyone she knew that they needed to give out at least 30 gospel tracts a month. Carlin finally asked if Gil wanted to join her group and he did even though he wasn't a girl. 

So Kelly shows up to talk about how Carlin from the time she was young always felt lost in the group of siblings.Carlin would say she was worthless and wasn't important. They just told her to find her significance in Christ. Carlin was apparently only around ten but was seriously depressed, so they took her to a revival. Carlin just cried all the time before this and continually said she was worthless. So Carlin ended up at the altar sobbing, crying and learned her only focus should be God. I feel so deeply sorry for Carlin. She was a child who needed real help, not to be taken to a revival. Carlin started doing a Bible study with the little kids in her family. Kelly didn't even notice for a while that Carlin was doing this. Apparently she really is lost in that family.  She finally got to be an errand person at IBLP events. Kelly makes a big deal for some reason about how she just has to stay in the background, but that was her ministry. They finally let Carlin take over a character class at Gil's church but only when they couldn't find anyone else to do it. 

Kelly then starts talking about how Carlin had to learn that none of her talents or looks were significant, and that the only way she would be significant is when she served God. 

Gil and Kelly are just truly awful parents. 

 

 

[llucie]

Thank you for taking the effort to review Gils sermons  @formergothardite . Reading them now i can understand why all of his children change churches as soon as they can when they marry.

[formergothardite]

It is crazy how they are able to present this image as wholesome, loving, involved parents for the world, but admit for IBLP that they don't notice what their kids are doing. How checked out do you have to be to not notice your kids are spending the nights praying and have started fasting? Or that your daughter is gathering all the younger children to have a Bible study? 

Carlin was a depressed child who felt worthless, then got reality TV attention as a teen,  all while having parents who, when they do pay attention to her, tell her that her talents and looks aren't significant and only how she serves God is. It is really no wonder she acts like she does on Instagram and wants a wedding where she finally stand out from her siblings. 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

The Dangers of Getting a Wrong Perspective in Life

This was one of Gil's talks from last year. And it took me forever to watch this one. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

~It is easy to leave the conferences thinking that life is going to be easier after learning so much, but finding it isn't.

~It can be frustrating when people who are living a worldly life do better than you do. 

~Gil asked IBLP teens to ask him questions about the ATI life(he calls it the Christian life but what he means is ATI), One question he got over and over was is it worth it to live by these strict rules. 

~Gil is wanting amens again. He does this  thing where he clearly expects an amen so he puts his hand behind his ear and leans forward while he waits for people to amen him. If people Amen it isn't picked up on the video because there always seems to be silence. This is a student session again, maybe the teens aren't buying what he is selling. 

~If you are taking notes write this down. Gil says this. So here is the important thing he wants us all to write down. The principle to live by is that truly God is good. 

~Gil isn't one of those once saved always saved folks. He says if you ever start thinking God isn't good you risk losing your faith. 

~Gil rambles off into a story about how the night before there was a man sitting in front who was in a wheel chair and he had no legs. None of us would ever want to be in his place, but God is still good. 

~Wanting another amen put his hand to his ear and leaned forward. 

~A guy asked Gil to play golf. He would like to play golf more often but he can't work it into his schedule. One of the guys hit his ball into a pond that had a big sign that says keep out in front of it. I am not following this story but the guy fell in on accident and couldn't get out but Gil didn't notice for almost ten minutes. The moral of this story is that if you go on the edge of your wall of protection you might slip and be unable to get out. This will be especially true if you have friends who don't notice that your are drowning. 

~Don't be jealous when the world prospers and you don't. 

~People who write near death experience books are lying because if you don't know Jesus it won't be a nice afterlife. Gil again puts his hand to his ear and leans forward for an Amen. 

~Gil meets with people he knows aren't saved but they tell him they have peace with God and aren't worried about dying and going to hell. He knows they are just delusional. 

~If your parents have a ton of kids and you live in a tiny house don't be jealous of people who have more. 

~Another story. Gil says that he has heard of people who will get up and say that to prove God is real he needs to strike them dead in one minute. The story stops there. There is nothing else to it. He is rambling on about other stuff. 

~Non-Christians are on tv, they play sports and are even in our government. This is terrible. 

~We are apparently back to the story of the people asking God to strike them dead in one minute except now it is five minutes. A wise Christian came up to them and told them they couldn't exhaust the long suffering of God in five minutes. 

~Gil puts his hand to his ear and leans forward for an amen. 

~I sort of zoned out at this point because he is quoting Bible verses and ranting about the worldly people getting riches. But he asks for an amen. 

~I went to make tea, come back and he is saying we should pray to be poor so we will have to depend on God. He is also wanting an Amen again. 

~A swear Gil takes five minutes to slowly read Bible verse. He keeps pausing between words. 

~We are back to the man who lost his legs. God took his legs to make sure he became a Christian. You would think there would be a better way than that.

~Gil says Christians have problems, then puts his hand to his ear and leans in for an Amen. This is such an annoying habit. 

~Gil talks about the importance of staying pure from the things of the world. I guess this doesn't apply to selling your children's lives on television. 

~No matter how awful things are never let yourself think that God isn't good. 

~It is now 20 minutes in and he is going to give us the answer to all of life's problems. Go to God. That is the answer. Gil wants an amen. 

~Gil says he looks at the people who take the path his family has taken and says that it is God's path.  He gives himself an amen after he says this. 

~Gil has never been in the mafia, but he has heard about. It seems like mafia members are doing good, but Gil has seen their end. He leans in with his hand behind his ear for an amen. 

~Gil then goes into a story about how when non-Christians are dying you can often hear them start screaming as they realize they are going to hell. I don't think that is real. 

And I gave up at this point because I still had 25 more minutes of Gil droning on. The asking for amens seems to be a habit he picked up in his more recent videos because it wasn't in the earliest video he did. It is really annoying and he should break himself of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Who the hell has to pray to be poor? Anyone can be poor. By the end of today. Just give all your money away and BAM!, dream comes true. 

We're waiting Gil...

11 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Carlin was a depressed child who felt worthless, then got reality TV attention as a teen,  all while having parents who, when they do pay attention to her, tell her that her talents and looks aren't significant and only how she serves God is.

I really hope Gil and Kelly exaggerated that story for dramatic effect. Because a ten year old saying they are "worthless" is really concerning. I also really hope Carlin's big personality is just her finally coming into herself and gaining confidence, and not some mask. 

[Kelsey]

11 hours ago, formergothardite said:

The Dangers of Getting a Wrong Perspective in Life

This was one of Gil's talks from last year. And it took me forever to watch this one. 

  Hide contents

 

~Gil then goes into a story about how when non-Christians are dying you can often hear them start screaming as they realize they are going to hell. I don't think that is real. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I worked in a hospital emergency room for a few years (more than 5 but less than 10) so have (unfortunately) seen more than my fair share of people die. And probably all of them non-Christian (at least by asshole Gil's standards) and never once have I heard anyone scream because they realized they were going to hell (or for any other reason). 

[ColeJo]

9 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I really hope Gil and Kelly exaggerated that story for dramatic effect. Because a ten year old saying they are "worthless" is really concerning. I also really hope Carlin's big personality is just her finally coming into herself and gaining confidence, and not some mask. 

I was a 10 year-old who felt worthless. Growing in my faith has helped that a lot. HOWEVER, I needed to get counseling and medication. I didn't stick with the counseling, but once I got my meds figured out at age 21, things started to become clearer. Depression really affects spiritual health. I wasn't in a state where I could read the Bible and study it. I wasn't in a state where I could pray. I have considered weaning myself off (w/ medical supervision), but I do not want to risk a relapse. Being on medication has helped me understand the difference of feeling worthless and having the blues because things are tough.

 

[onyourwayhome]

On 3/16/2019 at 7:42 AM, formergothardite said:

The talk about good kids verses godly kids is a bit misleading because the picture shows Kelly talking but it is Gil instead, Kelly doesn't show up till briefly at the end.  I just skipped around on this one. The basic message is that it doesn't matter if you have polite children who care about others, what matters is if they are godly. And the rest of it is devoted to Carlin. 

A better title for this talk would be "How We Really Fucked Up Carlin" 

  Hide contents

 

One daughter made a commitment to enhance her communion with God. She then started "ministering" to her siblings to encourage them to do the same. Gil says that siblings are one of your biggest ministries because they can't leave when they live in the house with you. He suggests giving your siblings candy to keep them listening to you. The Bates kids started having all night prayer meetings and then they started fasting. Gil did not even notice this was going on and he admits he often isn't in tune with what his kids are doing. He didn't learn about this till later. So then Carlin who was 13 came to him at the end of the year to tell him what commitments she had made to God and how she kept them. She decided to read her Bible 10 minutes a day, pray 10 minutes a day, memorize scriptures 10 minutes a day and witness to one person each day for the entire year. So every time she met a new person she would ask them if they were reading their Bible, praying, memorizing scripture and witnessing like they should be doing. She then guilted them into joining her accountability group by asking them "So Jesus died for you and you can't even read the Bible for ten minutes each day?!" or "Do you know how much Jesus suffered and you won't even pray?"

People complained that this daughter would put pressure on them, but that was what she was supposed to do. She then told everyone she knew that they needed to give out at least 30 gospel tracts a month. Carlin finally asked if Gil wanted to join her group and he did even though he wasn't a girl. 

So Kelly shows up to talk about how Carlin from the time she was young always felt lost in the group of siblings.Carlin would say she was worthless and wasn't important. They just told her to find her significance in Christ. Carlin was apparently only around ten but was seriously depressed, so they took her to a revival. Carlin just cried all the time before this and continually said she was worthless. So Carlin ended up at the altar sobbing, crying and learned her only focus should be God. I feel so deeply sorry for Carlin. She was a child who needed real help, not to be taken to a revival. Carlin started doing a Bible study with the little kids in her family. Kelly didn't even notice for a while that Carlin was doing this. Apparently she really is lost in that family.  She finally got to be an errand person at IBLP events. Kelly makes a big deal for some reason about how she just has to stay in the background, but that was her ministry. They finally let Carlin take over a character class at Gil's church but only when they couldn't find anyone else to do it. 

Kelly then starts talking about how Carlin had to learn that none of her talents or looks were significant, and that the only way she would be significant is when she served God. 

Gil and Kelly are just truly awful parents. 

 

 

I listened to this sermon  after your post and I just can’t agree with your summary of what was said. Kelly did not say that her looks and talent weren’t significant, she said not to find her worth in that. I don’t care what religion you are, as a parent, I fully agree with this. She said, “her significance couldn’t be found in her accomplishments, her looks, or her talent” and that people shouldn’t look to others for their value. While Kelly’s argument is that Carlin (and the audience) shouldn’t do things for the praise or others but to glorify God, you can apply this separately from religion. Don’t do nice things for people just so everyone tells you that you are awesome, do it help other people or be a good person. Too many people, especially kids and teens, base their worth on how their peers perceive them.  Don’t find you worth in being pretty, because pretty fades, etc. Tying up your worth in one aspect of your identify can end very badly when that aspect changes or subsides.

In regards to the character class, Abby Paine was running it and left. She said lots of people tried to step in and do it but it didn’t work and Carlin asked and they said yes. If I am doing the math, she was max 15 when she started teaching a character class to 40 “kids”, some of whom, according to Kelly, were older than Carlin. I wouldn’t sign a 14 or 15 year old up for that either. 

I’m not caping for them at all, because I fully expected to hear them say what you summarized - I just didn’t. 

 

On 3/16/2019 at 5:52 PM, ColeJo said:

I was a 10 year-old who felt worthless. Growing in my faith has helped that a lot. HOWEVER, I needed to get counseling and medication. I didn't stick with the counseling, but once I got my meds figured out at age 21, things started to become clearer. Depression really affects spiritual health. I wasn't in a state where I could read the Bible and study it. I wasn't in a state where I could pray. I have considered weaning myself off (w/ medical supervision), but I do not want to risk a relapse. Being on medication has helped me understand the difference of feeling worthless and having the blues because things are tough.

 

I am so glad you are successfully managing your depression and I hope whatever choices you make in the future regarding meds and anything else are fully supported. I’m not sure if Carlin was depressed or was complaining and Kelly uses the word depression too flippantly. I doubt she is well-versed in anything regarding mental health. Either way, I hope Carlin is truly happy and thriving and if she isn’t, that she will be. Having this background on Carlin struggling for identity does add additonal color to her seeming desperation for engagement, though. 

[ophelia]

17 hours ago, llucie said:

Thank you for taking the effort to review Gils sermons  @formergothardite . Reading them now i can understand why all of his children change churches as soon as they can when they marry.

I always wondered how Gil and Kelly feel about this and how the married children tell their parents that they will change churches. I can't blame them. That sermon is so awful and you can clearly see that Gil has no theological knowledge whatsoever. I'm not opposing the concept of universal priesthood in general, but people like Gil, the PPP and so on, really show the dangers of it IMHO.

Reading what was said about Carlin really made me feel for her. She is annoying AF, but somehow I can't blame her that much anymore. I hope she'll find happiness inside herself and that her marriage with Fundie Zoolander will support her on that journey.

[JordynDarby5]

19 minutes ago, ophelia said:

I always wondered how Gil and Kelly feel about this and how the married children tell their parents that they will change churches. I can't blame them. That sermon is so awful and you can clearly see that Gil has no theological knowledge whatsoever. I'm not opposing the concept of universal priesthood in general, but people like Gil, the PPP and so on, really show the dangers of it IMHO.

Reading what was said about Carlin really made me feel for her. She is annoying AF, but somehow I can't blame her that much anymore. I hope she'll find happiness inside herself and that her marriage with Fundie Zoolander will support her on that journey.

It made me feel for her too. She annoys me too but that was awful. After that crappy treatment Carlin's behavior makes so much more sense. Her parents horrible.

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, ophelia said:

I always wondered how Gil and Kelly feel about this and how the married children tell their parents that they will change churches. I can't blame them. That sermon is so awful and you can clearly see that Gil has no theological knowledge whatsoever. I'm not opposing the concept of universal priesthood in general, but people like Gil, the PPP and so on, really show the dangers of it IMHO.

Reading what was said about Carlin really made me feel for her. She is annoying AF, but somehow I can't blame her that much anymore. I hope she'll find happiness inside herself and that her marriage with Fundie Zoolander will support her on that journey.

I think it’s easy for the women. They obviously will attend their headships church. All the husbands are such great spiritual leaders of their family (barf) it’s up to them and they mustn’t be questioned. Do we know which church Zach and  family are visiting? 

[lumpentheologie]

This all just makes me so much more supportive of the Bates girls marrying young to get away.  I'd gamble on that too in their place.  

[nickelodeon]

I’m intrigued by the way that the Bateses’ description of their kids’ fasting/other zealous behavior resembles similar stories that JRod tells about her kids: pious child starts secretly fasting and praying excessively and we never even noticed!

Putting aside the weirdness of the story (you don’t notice when your kid stops eating?) I wonder if both families are mimicking some kind of model, or if the Rods are imitating the Bateses, or if it’s a coincidence.

[Jigsaw3]

Students at Crown College are required to attend Crown's church (Temple Baptist maybe? I can't be arsed to look it up.)

That's probably the easy way out of Gil's church for the adult daughters: start going to Crown when studying because school rules, and then continue to attend with the fiance/husband, before switching to a different church of the couple's choice (pretending it's the headship's choice.) It's a gradual and non-confrontational way out of the family worship scene.

For Zach, it may have been possible to wiggle his way out when Erin and Chad attended a different church with a nursery, and then their house/his schedule/Whit's family (pick your own excuse) made it easier to attend there. We know that Alyssa and John have worshipped with Zach and Erin when they're in town.

Or maybe there was a big family fight about church attendance at some point? We'd never know: they don't televise the bad stuff.

I'd be interested to know whether the single adult sons go to Gil's church regularly or attend elsewhere.

[HurricaneBells]

On 3/17/2019 at 1:42 AM, formergothardite said:

And the rest of it is devoted to Carlin. 

A better title for this talk would be "How We Really Fucked Up Carlin" 

  Hide contents

So Kelly shows up to talk about how Carlin from the time she was young always felt lost in the group of siblings.Carlin would say she was worthless and wasn't important. They just told her to find her significance in Christ. Carlin was apparently only around ten but was seriously depressed, so they took her to a revival.  Apparently she really is lost in that family. 

Kelly then starts talking about how Carlin had to learn that none of her talents or looks were significant, and that the only way she would be significant is when she served God. 

Gil and Kelly are just truly awful parents. 

 

 

I am feeling so sad for her right now. I was coming here to say in her last instagram post, she says "Im sitting here wondering how i got so lucky with Evan" and how sad that made me that she feels like she is the one who got something she doesnt deserve. Then I saw your post. Who does this to their child... and then when she tries to escape them, they hold her back anyway. Ugh, they are assholes!

Edited March 17, 2019 by HurricaneBells
them not you