Bates 26: Do Not Attempt This at Home

[formergothardite]

18 hours ago, pippi said:

Copy pasting Alyssa's quote from that thread in case anyone else doesn't feel like digging: 

"I don't believe the way I'm dressed is perverted or sexual. I try to dress modestly to draw attention to Christ. I can't help it if there is someone out there who has a dirty mind... They will be that way regardless of what I wear unfortunately."

This is actually pretty similar to what her parents were saying about how they dressed back on their original blog. 

Quote

Our goal in anything—including our appearance—is to represent Christ in our lives. And for us, that means modest clothing that draws attention to the inward person not the outward. But appearance goes much deeper than outward clothing . . . We could be dressed to a “T” on the outside, but have a rotten attitude on the inside and our whole appearance would be marred. So more importantly than our outward dress, is our inward spirit.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111218200108/http://gilbatesfamily.com/faqs/

[nelliebelle1197]

8 hours ago, formergothardite said:

This is actually pretty similar to what her parents were saying about how they dressed back on their original blog. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20111218200108/http://gilbatesfamily.com/faqs/

But, but... Alyssa was so forceful and clear and intelligent!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

18 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

But, but... Alyssa was so forceful and clear and intelligent!

Alyssa who?  MIlano?   

[Johannah]

The draw attention to Christ part is the same, yes, but saying someone will have a dirty mind regardless of what she wears goes against all the Nike alerts, we can’t visit beaches because of bikinis, ladies your dress and appearance could cause your Christian brothers to stumble rhetoric that this group generally espouses. 

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, Johannah said:

ll the Nike alerts, we can’t visit beaches because of bikinis, ladies your dress and appearance could cause your Christian brothers to stumble rhetoric that this group generally espouses. 

That was the Duggar. The Bates never did the Nike thing, there are plenty of pictures of them at the beach years ago and I'm not sure that they ever went on record saying that it would cause Christian brothers to stumble. That was their answer from back before they tried to make it look like they were not fundamentalists. 

[Scoodilypoop]

They don’t do the Nike thing but they have stated on their show that they go to the beach in North Carolina in the winter to avoid people. 

When they went to the beach in Florida, the boys had to stare at the sand whenever a woman walked by. And I’m paraphrasing Gil, “we like the beach. We also like people. We just prefer people keep to have their clothes on.”

[nickelodeon]

Putting the burden of other people’s dirty thoughts on women and their clothes was part of IBLP teachings (remember “eye traps”?) - so Alyssa must be familiar with the idea. I’m cynical about her motives but I think she is talking counter to the old dogma.

[formergothardite]

It was very much part of it. I think they have been moving away from that more recently. I think I read that they had changed the wisdom book that had children go judge people for what they wore. 

While Alyssa grew up being taught that both men and women had to be equally modest in dress(IBLP was strict on guys too), she also grew up in a family where her parents did what they wanted and claimed they were following the rules. Remember the wet clothes on the boys? That was hardly in line with IBLP teachings. What Alyssa wrote is probably closer to the teachings of IBLP than Kelly posting those pictures. 

Plenty of people in IBLP dress like Alyssa so I'm not really surprised she wrote that or that her mother backed her up. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

54 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Putting the burden of other people’s dirty thoughts on women and their clothes was part of IBLP teachings (remember “eye traps”?) - so Alyssa must be familiar with the idea. I’m cynical about her motives but I think she is talking counter to the old dogma.

Eye traps is a phrase Steve Maxwell uses.  They aren’t IBLP are they?

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

They aren’t IBLP are they?

They dabbled for a bit but I'm not sure that phrase actually originated with Gothard. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

They dabbled for a bit but I'm not sure that phrase actually originated with Gothard. 

Such a weird phrase I figured Steve made it up.

so how did Gothard feel about contrasting buttons? 

[formergothardite]

23 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Such a weird phrase I figured Steve made it up.

so how did Gothard feel about contrasting buttons? 

He was more focused on flower placements on dresses. 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

He was more focused on flower placements on dresses. 

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the powerful patriarchy!

[nolongerIFBx]

Was no wet hair on ladies in public Gothard too? I first heard it at a youth conference in OK when we were headed to an amusement park that had a water ride (not a water park/swimsuits, just a ride you got wet on) and my whole church group was like "What? Since when was wet hair attractive to men?"

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Was no wet hair on ladies in public Gothard too? I first heard it at a youth conference in OK when we were headed to an amusement park that had a water ride (not a water park/swimsuits, just a ride you got wet on) and my whole church group was like "What? Since when was wet hair attractive to men?"

That is fascinating!  No wet hair in public was my rule for me becusse I look terrible with wet hair.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

On 5/22/2019 at 10:46 AM, TatiFish9 said:

Either way, it has been quite the show watching Kelly and Gil back track on why they once held the doctrine of no dancing, but suddenly it is now pubically acceptable in certain settings.

They’ve never been as anti-dancing as the Duggars. Years ago there was an episode where one of the boys (Lawson?) danced with Mama Jane. The dance was the Carolina Shag and a poster referred to it as “shagging.” Some British members were like, “wait, what?!”

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

The dance was the Carolina Shag and a poster referred to it as “shagging.” Some British members were like, “wait, what?!”

I forgot about that! That was an amusing mix up. 

[19tacos&counting]

Will Traces new lady be at Carlin’s wedding? 

[justmy2cents]

3 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

They’ve never been as anti-dancing as the Duggars. Years ago there was an episode where one of the boys (Lawson?) danced with Mama Jane. The dance was the Carolina Shag and a poster referred to it as “shagging.” Some British members were like, “wait, what?!”

It was Nathan. I think Kelly looked surprised but didn't say anything.  I do remember her explaining either on the old blog or the show that a couple could dance behind closed doors but not in front of others.  It was definitely a departure for them. She said that over the years they reevaluated certain rules and changed them. I'm sure dancing is one of them, along with shorter hemlines and boys wearing shorts. I wish they would reevaluate their patriarchal beliefs along with the superficial stuff.

[Hisey]

12 hours ago, formergothardite said:

What Alyssa wrote is probably closer to the teachings of IBLP than Kelly posting those pictures. 

True. And Kelly isn't leaving fundamentalism any time soon.

On 5/22/2019 at 9:47 AM, nelliebelle1197 said:

They have not changed one bit. I am not sure why you feel that way. They have always been like this.

Well, they used to wear long dresses and now they wear short. They used to forbid dancing, and now it is OK is certain, special, circumstances (picked by them). They used to have strict dating rules and now Carlin is practically dry-humping Evan on instagram. I think those are changes.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

19 hours ago, Scoodilypoop said:

When they went to the beach in Florida, the boys had to stare at the sand whenever a woman walked by. And I’m paraphrasing Gil, “we like the beach. We also like people. We just prefer people keep to have their clothes on.”

Grrrr
I remember this, because they were on MY local beach!  I thought "How dare they come to Clearwater and tell everyone here how to dress!"  If they have such a problem with the locals on the beach, they can just stay off the beach.  

[nelliebelle1197]

6 hours ago, Hisey said:

True. And Kelly isn't leaving fundamentalism any time soon.

Well, they used to wear long dresses and now they wear short. They used to forbid dancing, and now it is OK is certain, special, circumstances (picked by them). They used to have strict dating rules and now Carlin is practically dry-humping Evan on instagram. I think those are changes.

Relaxing a few superficial rules because you are trying to make your cult less creepy is not exactly change.  Call me when they stop marrying off teenagers who start breeding immediately and give their kids the same chances and tools they had to determine their own paths, then I will call it change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[just_ordinary]

  While I agree they all are still Fundie and I don’t see any of them (except 1 couple maybe) shifting I wonder how much of the changes really are conscious steps to look less like freaks and what happened because they realised it just didn’t work and looking less like freaks was just a positive coincidence. 

Courtship standards, frumpers, dancing, etc.

I don’t think those developments are actually important but I am not sure they are done „to make [the] cult less creepy” (to quote @nelliebelle1197). 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

57 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

  While I agree they all are still Fundie and I don’t see any of them (except 1 couple maybe) shifting I wonder how much of the changes really are conscious steps to look less like freaks and what happened because they realised it just didn’t work and looking less like freaks was just a positive coincidence. 

Courtship standards, frumpers, dancing, etc.

I don’t think those developments are actually important but I am not sure they are done „to make [the] cult less creepy” (to quote @nelliebelle1197). 

Agree 100%.  It’s to make it look more palatable to the public and draw in more people than they could with off putting frumpers. 

That gen 2.0 likely enjoys it is a bonus.

[nelliebelle1197]

3 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

  While I agree they all are still Fundie and I don’t see any of them (except 1 couple maybe) shifting I wonder how much of the changes really are conscious steps to look less like freaks and what happened because they realised it just didn’t work and looking less like freaks was just a positive coincidence. 

Courtship standards, frumpers, dancing, etc.

I don’t think those developments are actually important but I am not sure they are done „to make [the] cult less creepy” (to quote @nelliebelle1197). 

I thought about after I posted- Gil and Kelly cannot be bothered with all these kids to keep them in control and enforce silly rules. There is probably a whole bunch of apathy involved, as much as anything else.