The Botkinettes Take Umbrage!

[Pecansforeveryone]

The bubbles these fundie patriarchs put their children in is mind boggling and crippling. What is the point of raising all these godly children to shield them a world that so "desperatly needs your messsage?" Its cruel to the children but honestly it shows you don't really believe your own press. You claim to want to save the world but only preach this life giving message to your fellow Christians means you don't give a dam about "a lost, dying" world. I'm torn writing this since I don't approve of missionaries and prostelitizsers. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Pecansforeveryone
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[Lurky]

@Columbia Every time I see the title of this post, it makes me smile - you worded it so perfectly, thank you!

Everyone else:  I'm British, so the only time I've seen a gun that's not an air rifle or an antique in real life is on airport police in other countries - but is the appendix holster actually a good idea?  I would have thought that if it made for faster firing, then law enforcement/military types would use them, but don't they use shoulder holsters?

And while whenever I think of appendix holsters, I have a Pavlovian response of imagining a Botkin shooting off his own dick by accident, is it actually a risk? 

Each time I come on a Botkin thread, I go and read something by Katie Botkin, for a palate cleanser.  Tonight I laughed out loud at this tweet of hers:

ETA, and for her view of her homeschooling:

I like this piece too:

https://medium.com/@katherineheline/why-the-devil-gets-all-the-good-music-dbe4335e7098

I'm so glad she left the patriarchal church behind her, and is traveling the world, writing, having adventures and succeeding.  Such a shame the Botkinettes can't follow their cousin's example.

ETA 2 Also, this book sounds amazing - is there a thread for it I can't find?

I'm terrible at searching FJ, so many apologies if i missed it, and you all already know, but check out the contents!!!!

Spoiler

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Lurky
SOTDRT is infectious

[nausicaa]

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Elizabeth and Anna-Sophie don't go to college, despite having...

*Anna Sofia.

Sheesh. I know her name and I can't even blame this on auto correct since I was using my laptop. I also made a major grammatical mistake in another post today. This is probably some weird karma for being bitchy towards Fundie kidults. 

[milkteeth]

19 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Also, he's a twenty-something healthy guy. If he's so knowledgeable about military strategy and shooting, and desires to protect others and serve the country, why doesn't he just...join the military? Nothing is stopping him.

Other than perhaps the possible realization that he is not the innate polymathic genius his father brainwashed him into believing he is. I suspect this is the same reason that Elizabeth and Anna-Sophie don't go to college, despite having the aptitude for it and seeming to enjoy reading, writing, and abstract thinking.

It really is amazing how much Geoff managed to make each one of his children such an arrogant blowhard while also completely inhibiting them from achieving any real careers. 

 

Why don't Elizabeth and Anna-Sophia go to college, even an insane Christian college that would never challenge Papa's world view? I thought one of the main reasons they were against higher education for women was because it took away precious baby making time but it's obvious that E and AS are going to be the maiden aunts of the Botkin family. If  they're going to be the ones caring for and educating the rest of the Botkin brood, why not let them study to become teachers?

Oh wait, it's because it would put them out of Daddy's direct control.

[nausicaa]

59 minutes ago, milkteeth said:

Why don't Elizabeth and Anna-Sophia go to college, even an insane Christian college that would never challenge Papa's world view? I thought one of the main reasons they were against higher education for women was because it took away precious baby making time but it's obvious that E and AS are going to be the maiden aunts of the Botkin family. If  they're going to be the ones caring for and educating the rest of the Botkin brood, why not let them study to become teachers?

Yeah, their rationale on this one makes zero sense to me. They've received a better education than the Maxwells, and seem fairly well read. They even said in one of their lectures that reading different ideas doesn't mean you are betraying your beliefs (and I believe even used Mao's Little Red Book as their example!). And they've backtracked post-Dougiegate and said they aren't against college or working, just that your womanly Biblical duties should always come first. 

So if they aren't currently courting and have no children to raise, wouldn't going to college be a great way to make the most of this time and their talents like the Bible says to do? According to their own professed beliefs, even a secular state college wouldn't make them less Christian. I know college isn't for everyone, but they both come off as women who enjoy intellectual pursuits and would do well at it. 

It's such a shame to me how they seem to be twiddling their thumbs when they do seem capable and talented. It's all such a waste. 

[EowynW]

LEO typically use an on the hip carry. Some shoulder holster but that's not as common as tv portrays. 

Appendix carry varies from person to person because different body types require different methods of carrying. 

[Lisafer]

4 hours ago, EowynW said:

LEO typically use an on the hip carry. Some shoulder holster but that's not as common as tv portrays. 

Appendix carry varies from person to person because different body types require different methods of carrying. 

I'm pretty sure the only time I ever saw somebody actually wearing a shoulder holster was an employee at a gun range, and I think he was showing off, haha. From what I understand, tactically it's much better to have your holster on the belt so you can draw your weapon more quickly, which is why LEOs carry it that way.

I rarely see appendix carry either; I mean, really, accidental discharge is so much more dangerous in that position. Most everybody who conceals and carries around here either has it on their belt or in their purse (NOT a fan of purse carrying myself).

[Howl]

10 hours ago, milkteeth said:

Why don't Elizabeth and Anna-Sophia go to college, even an insane Christian college that would never challenge Papa's world view?

Well, they are so very busy supporting their brothers' visions and being helpmeets on the home front. 

When the brothers were off in Egypt making a film, they were at home doing "research."  It's sad to see the amazing woman that Katie Botkin has become compared to the stunted lives of the Botkinetti.  

I don't think psychologically they would be able to make the leap to college work, even if it was online.  

[Botkinetti]

AS and Elizabeth believe they are the teachers the world needs. They know how every person in the world should live their life. I don’t know if they could handle being at a bricks and mortar college. They would be challenged every day by people with different ideas, experiences and knowledge. I think they would be overwhelmed by how little they know. 

The whole family lives in a carefully constructed fantasy and it could rock everything if AS and Elizabeth changed. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Botkinetti said:

The whole family lives in a carefully constructed fantasy and it could rock everything if AS and Elizabeth changed. 

This.  Enmeshment and Geoffhovah worship.

AS and E, even though they pay lip service to the "we were encouraged to be anything we wanted to be" line, the added subtext is "as long as anything is staying at home forever serving Geoffhovah and brothers."  For Heaven's sake, these people are too pure to join a regular church in their community and allow the extra super special (but non-threatening) chosen few to join them for worship on Sunday.  

When they were going on about supporting their brothers' adventures in Egypt by doing research at home, they had zero clue that they are telegraphing that they can only have adventure vicariously through the brothers and how sad and weird and constricted that sounds to the larger world. 

Unmarried Katie Botkin, in the meantime, travels the world solo for work and does a lot of rock climbing on the side, plus (gasp!)  YOGA!   You know, a regular life.   Ooooh, and a twitter account.  Following her now! 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Howl

[Hane]

They are enmeshed in an impermeable web of intellectual smugness. They have a certain jargon and pattern of “logic” down pat, all painstakingly cultivated by Geoffhovah, the Great Man. They’re so inseparably aligned with his Vision (TM) that they’re incapable of thinking for themselves, and can’t even realize it. Despite their fancy vocabularies and veneer of sophistication, they’d receive no benefit from traditional higher education other than a reinforced sense of superiority. Any sign of anything less than rapier-sharp expression in a professor or fellow student would convince them of how elite they are in comparison. Any “worldly,” “communistic,” or “feministic” (gaaaaah—their use of that prissy, unnecessary little suffix “-ic” makes me want to puke) ideas they’d come across would simply be dismissed out of hand. 

In short, it was too damn late for them at least two decades ago.

I put them in the same category as Bill Maher and Dennis Miller, who, even though they’re at opposite ends of the political spectrum, are so painfully assured of their own intellect and superiority that openmindedness and compassion no longer seem to be an option. 

Does anyone else remember that big Dominionist shebang years ago, at which the Botkinettes were guest speakers or something? According to report, when they used the ladies’ room, their brothers guarded the door so that lesser mortals couldn’t get in and “bother” them.

I wonder how it feels to sink down from Flavor of the Month to irrelevancy.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Wait, they would not use the restroom while other women, who presumably share their extreme views, were in the restroom? They had to have it cleared out for them, like a freaking movie star? That is so arrogant it defies logic!

Of course, I believe it happened, after watching The Return of the Daughters & other videos. The whole family seems terminally pompous & delusional.

[milkteeth]

I seriously wonder what will happen to the Botkin family when Geoff finally kicks the bucket and they are suddenly expected to carry out his 200 year generational plan without him telling them exactly what to do. It doesn't seem like he has groomed any of his sons to take up the mantle of dear leader, so unless they all decide to ritually follow him into the great beyond I can only imagine most of the Botkins will drift back into being mainstream conservative christians. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, milkteeth said:

I seriously wonder what will happen to the Botkin family when Geoff finally kicks the bucket and they are suddenly expected to carry out his 200 year generational plan without him telling them exactly what to do.

I honestly think the family will implode and one of the boys will try to take over Geoff's role -- not a stretch because of the huge sense of being entitled royalty arrogance these boys have been raised with; they may be too damaged to go mainstream fundy.   As has been pointed out many times previously, E & AS continue to be vulnerable financially.   There may be some older patriarchs who have worn out the original wife through forced child bearing and bad nutrition who will be on the search for a new  and still virginal wife.  Ya never know. 

Also, one of the things that truly chafes my chaps with these people: college-educated parents who deny that same opportunity to their children.  F**k them. 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Howl

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, milkteeth said:

I can only imagine most of the Botkins will drift back into being mainstream conservative christians. 

Same here.

Also trying to imagine how happily or easily any of the adult brothers would take in their mother and/or sisters, supporting & housing them in the event Geoff dies. As I understand their cult's beliefs, women should not be without headships, right?

Having "aunties" at their beck and call to do baby-sitting, "research," or whatever is one thing. Having your sister(s) take up permanent residence in your home, depending on YOU for everything would seem to be quite another thing.

This, BTW, is how it used to be up through about WW II. My parents both grew up (1920s through 1940s) with unmarried female relatives who lived with them full time or on rotation through their homes & those of other family members. Is this what the Botkinettes would be doing?

[Soulhuntress]

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Same here.

This, BTW, is how it used to be up through about WW II. My parents both grew up (1920s through 1940s) with unmarried female relatives who lived with them full time or on rotation through their homes & those of other family members. Is this what the Botkinettes would be doing?

Their situation reminds me for Sense and Sensibility.  If only women had support to work outside the house..... ?. In all seriousness, can the boys support their own nuclear family much less mom and sisters?   

[CyborgKin]

Wow, I accidentally don't visit FJ for a couple of weeks and this happens.  Again.  Is this the forth time something notable has happened while I was away?  It's enough of a pattern that I take fully responsibility for causing this   Especially since I was thinking "I wonder if the Botkins did something while I was gone," right before opening FJ.

Looking at the sisters' post about the Egypt trip again, I've got to wonder what's so important about ancient Egyptian medicine that they had to be up around the clock writing briefings.  If they absolutely had to have that information prepared while the guys were in Egypt, well that speaks of very poor planning.

[CyborgKin]

As for the idea of Lucas joining the military... well imagine the kinds of people he might have to work with!  

11 hours ago, Howl said:

Unmarried Katie Botkin, in the meantime, travels the world solo for work and does a lot of rock climbing on the side, plus (gasp!)  YOGA!   You know, a regular life.   Ooooh, and a twitter account.  Following her now! 

IIRC she's divorced?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure she's mentioned that on her blog.

What happened to post auto-merging?

Edited March 3, 2019 by CyborgKin
sorry didn't meant to make a doublepost, it's always merged previously

[AnnaSofia]

Has this come up in previous Botkin threads?

https://newdirectionfamilyconference.com/

A Botkin-led "family conference" that supposed to happen a few months ago in Budapest, but has been postponed due to "an unexpected health setback".

 

 

[Pianokeeper]

5 minutes ago, AnnaSofia said:

Has this come up in previous Botkin threads?

https://newdirectionfamilyconference.com/

A Botkin-led "family conference" that supposed to happen a few months ago in Budapest, but has been postponed due to "an unexpected health setback".

 

 

This video cracks me up.  The dramatic turn!  The weird changing of tenses -- is he talking TO Hungary or ABOUT Hungary?  The over-the-top music!  "Some families have started million-dollar businesses from their garage!"  Okay......

[Marian the Librarian]

1 hour ago, AnnaSofia said:

Has this come up in previous Botkin threads?

https://newdirectionfamilyconference.com/

A Botkin-led "family conference" that supposed to happen a few months ago in Budapest, but has been postponed due to "an unexpected health setback".

 

 

This is quite a find - nice work! Interesting that there's no link to this conference on the Western Conservatory website or FB page.

Geoff does not look good here. (He's 65, per public records search, in answer to an earlier question in this thread.) I'm betting the conference cancellation happened because his health took a turn for the worse.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Birth control for foolish people 

Spoiler

 

[Lisafer]

9 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Birth control for foolish people 

  Hide contents

 

So he didn't have a license and the gun was not in a holster...that's just plain foolish behavior right there!

[AnnaSofia]

It looks like Nadia Noor Botkin's sister, Nawelle, is working for State Rep Clay Doggett:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nawellenoor

Though apparently no one can be bothered to spell her name correctly:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h70.html

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/staff/

[hoipolloi]

Why am I not surprised that Geoff Botkin thinks Hungary is the great hope of the western world? Hungary is a rising right-wing, authoritarian regime. The leader, Viktor Orbán, is like tRump, only smarter and therefore scarier. 

So Geoff is going to show the people of Hungary exactly what? How to make money by producing shitty movies and publishing idiotic books that are then sold for outrageous prices? Catch the blurbs on this audiobook bundle, selling for $55-70, like this one from Becky Morecraft:

Quote

What could be more appealing than the dulcet tones of a cultured woman’s voice — the very embodiment of mature and godly femininity — reading the actual words of sturdy women of America’s past?