Baptists & Decades of Sexual Abuse

[zee_four]

1 hour ago, Mcnapple said:

Another one that isn't well-known is Jehovah Witnesses, very patriarchal church (sure, they will let women go door to door to spread their gospel to infidels, but inside their church, they are not even allowed to directions to a new-comer looking for the bathroom.) They have had a massive cover-up and protection of pedophiles, it's covered pretty well in the Wikipedia article "Jehovah's Witnesses' handling of child sex abuse"

Ugh JW. My auntie passed away in her 30s from breast cancer. Diagnosed when she was 32 in the mid 90s, super late stage since she was breastfeeding my infant cousins and the doctors kept saying it was just clogged mill ducts. Anyway she went into remission but got sick again and died after having to quit her job, move to the city hours away because at the time our hospital didnt even have an oncologist.

 

Point is her sisters were all JW by this point. They and their whole families refused to step foot in the church for her funeral. My mom, whose younger half brother was married to her was sooooo upset since she lost her mother very very young like my cousins and had a bunch of family crap. Like my mom was upset when she passed but then when my aunties mom was devastated her youngest daughter was dead and none of her other daughters or grandchildren would come... they literally stood outside and made a big deal it was awful.

 

JW are not well liked in our family needless to say.

[fundieturnedfeminist]

Does anyone know of any discussion about sexual harassment/assault at Crown College in Powell? For context, my family was in IBLP, I grew up at Temple, and went to Crown, but have left because of, well, a lot of reasons. 

While a student, I was harassed and emotionally abused by some "great" "preacher boys" and am wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing. I was there long enough to know that a lot of stuff was covered up (and dozens of people affiliated with the church/school have been implicated), which is why I'm surprised nothing has come out yet. Where there's smoke ... 

[Hane]

15 hours ago, Briefly said:

Several of my relatives were SBC.  I'm mainly referring to the older generations that are mainly gone now.  One of my cousins married a Catholic.  You would have thought that Armageddon was happening in that branch of the family.  It was not pretty.  The cousin married him anyway, but it was dicey.  Quite a few of her family members boycotted the wedding.

I think in many ways, the anti-Catholic bias in the SBC/BC is probably generational. 

This happened to my parents. My dad’s family was Catholic when they came here from Italy in the 1910s, but converted to ABC because the local Catholic pastor was an Italian-hating SOB and an Italian Baptist minister came to the neighborhood and was kind and helpful. When Dad met Mom (who was Catholic), he felt drawn to the Catholic Church and firmly believed that a “gentleman” deferred to his wife’s religion; he also wanted his whole family to attend the same church on Sundays. His entire family boycotted their wedding.  As recently as the ‘70s, one of my Baptist aunts made her displeasure known when her Baptist son and his Catholic wife considered joining their neighborhood’s Congregational church as a sort of religious compromise.

[karen77]

An opinion piece came out on some of this, or at least related to this today.....

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/southern-baptist-convention-report-sex-abuse-shines-light-evangelical-culture-ncna970756

 

[older than allosaurs]

For graduate level digging into this mess, Spiritual Sounding Board is compiling links and background to go with the Houston Post series:

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2019/02/10/houston-chronicles-abuse-of-faith-in-the-sbc-article-1-of-3-resources-for-additional-research/

[Briefly]

The SBC church we attended sporadically when I was a kid, the one I eventually joined and was baptised into as a teen, the church I was married in (our first wedding), was SBC but it was fairly tame.  The pastor was a very good friend of my dad's and dad eventually started attending then we all gradually started going with him.  The pastor was also one of the nicest people I've ever met.  He would be appalled that any of that happened, and I can not even begin to imagine how angry my dad would be.

That church is why I originally suggested we visit an SBC church when we were starting our fundy mistake.  It took me a while before I realized how different the SBC had become.  Or it's possible that the first church was the different one and the SBC was always hard line.  Although it's much harder lined now at any rate.

[EowynW]

Calvinists are also a different kind of arrogant. It's hard to explain. They're more sophisticated & smart sounding. And more cruel. Maybe because they're so sure of their precious elected status. 

[hoipolloi]

More fallout.

Now, Al Mohler (head of the SBTS in Louisville, KY) and Danny Akin (head of SEBTS in Wake Forest, NC) both say that they regret supporting CJ Mahaney:

Quote

A leading Southern Baptist figure on Thursday apologized for supporting a religious leader who was accused of helping conceal sexual abuses at his former church, and for making a joke that he said downplayed the severity of the allegations....In an interview with the Houston Chronicle, Al Mohler said for the first time publicly that he regrets his embrace of C.J. Mahaney, the former leader of the non-Southern Baptist group Sovereign Grace Ministries, now known as Sovereign Grace Churches...."I believe in retrospect I erred in being part of a statement supportive of (Mahaney) and rather dismissive of the charges," Mohler said. "And I regret that action, which I think was taken without due regard to the claims made by the victims and survivors at the time, and frankly without an adequate knowledge on my part, for which I'm responsible."...Another Southern Baptist seminary president, Danny Akin, expressed similar regrets in an interview with the Chronicle Thursday.

 

[EowynW]

Oh like hell Mohler is "sorry!" That is a bunch of BS! People have been talking to him about this for years! 

[hoipolloi]

5 hours ago, EowynW said:

Oh like hell Mohler is "sorry!" That is a bunch of BS! People have been talking to him about this for years! 

ITA. This is a calculated move, devoid of any real empathy, repentance, or shame. 

These fuckwads -- Al Mohler, Danny Akin, and all their SBC buddies -- are only interested in power and keeping power. 

Julie Anne, at SSB, has a post on this with a link to the Wartburg Watch's 2016 post on Mohler's "joke."

[Jezzable]

Albert Mohler has a longer statement posted:  http://news.sbts.edu/2019/02/15/statement-r-albert-mohler-jr-sovereign-grace-churches/

[EowynW]

i thought y'all might find this documentary about the SBC takeover interesting. 

[hoipolloi]

Dee Parsons at the Wartburg Watch, who has done as much as anyone to document SBC abuses over the years, has posted a good analysis of Al Mohler's "apology:"

Quote

Interestingly, Mohler did not apologize directly to the victims. He did not make an attempt to contact them. Instead, he made a generic apology thru the Houston Chronicle. To who?  Those who subscribe to the Houston Chronicle? For what is he sorry? He said a lot of unkind things about the victims, about those who defended the victims, and about those who spoke against the leadership of CJ Mahaney. He alienated a lot of people and his actions led to The Gospel Coalition to block people on Twitter who supported SGM victims. His actions led to men like Joe Carter thinking it was appropriate to insult those who defended victims. Real apologies should be directed to those who we’re harmed by his actions. If he needs to meet an SGM victim, I can introduce him to one who could probably get a bunch of other victims to meet with him.

ETA: Go read it. It's a thorough take down of Mohler, Akin & all the other members of the "CJ, I Hardly Knew Ye" Club, as Dee calls it.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

All child sexual abusers should be publicly flogged and then jailed.  Society shouldn’t tolerate this crap at all.  

When I was young I believed we were evolving for the better and was heartbroken when I realized this was not true.  

[Hane]

On 2/16/2019 at 1:12 PM, EowynW said:

i thought y'all might find this documentary about the SBC takeover interesting. 

Thank you so much! This encapsulates so much of the growing far-right influence in religion, politics, and culture over the past few decades. Back in the ‘70s, feminism had barely established a toehold when the backlash started to hit. 

It also taught be a great deal about the background of the Baptist faith in the US.

[hoipolloi]

Janet Mefferd, who also did some heavy lifting years ago in pointing out SGM sexual abuse and Mahaney's record in covering it up, has a post worth reading:

Quote

 

I began covering the Sovereign Grace Ministries scandal in 2012, on my previous nationally syndicated Christian radio show. As I dug more deeply into sexual-abuse victims’ accusations in a class-action lawsuit, spoke with some of those affected and began to conduct interviews to glean more information, I stated that the SGM scandal was American evangelicalism’s biggest sex scandal to date.

My assessments back then are no more significant than the parallel or subsequent assessments made by many others along the same lines. But as a Christian radio host who was covering the story, I was subject to strong and uncomfortable pressure behind the scenes, which others may not have experienced in the same way.

And Al Mohler was at the center of that pressure.

 

 

[SilverBeach]

On 2/14/2019 at 4:16 PM, EowynW said:

Calvinists are also a different kind of arrogant. It's hard to explain. They're more sophisticated & smart sounding. And more cruel. Maybe because they're so sure of their precious elected status. 

The average churchgoer doesn't know Calvinism from Calvin Klein. Arminianism, Calvanism, those theological differences go over the head of many. I've not seen any church with either term in their name. I know that reformed denominations usually follow Calvinist theology, even though some are really quiet about it. There were a lot of genuinely nice people at my reformed church. Many Christians are smug because they are "saved" and accordingly, are very special snowflakes.

[Lisafer]

On 2/14/2019 at 4:16 PM, EowynW said:

Calvinists are also a different kind of arrogant. It's hard to explain. They're more sophisticated & smart sounding. And more cruel. Maybe because they're so sure of their precious elected status. 

I definitely knew a lot of arrogant Calvinists growing up. Without a doubt, it is a cruel theology. But I don't know that it was because they were sure of their elected status: there was a lot of fear because you could be wrong, not about the doctrine of election (haha) but about actually being one of the elect. A lot of imposter syndrome going on. 

I'd be inclined to believe that the cruelty came more from believing that all human beings are vile, utterly wicked, depraved souls that sin with every breath and are destined for an eternity in hell unless God intervenes. That kind of belief fucks with your head. 

I agree with @SilverBeach that a good many evangelical churchgoers don't give a crap about the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism. My experience was way more hardcore!

[SilverBeach]

6 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

'd be inclined to believe that the cruelty came more from believing that all human beings are vile, utterly wicked, depraved souls that sin with every breath and are destined for an eternity in hell unless God intervenes. That kind of belief fucks with your head. 

In my years in an RCA church, they never once said anything like this. Five point Calvinism was not taught. It was grace and love. Reformed-lite I guess. FWIW, I think the doctrine of election is bullshit. Jesus gets lost in religion.

[older than allosaurs]

39 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

 I know that reformed denominations usually follow Calvinist theology, even though some are really quiet about it. There were a lot of genuinely nice people at my reformed church. Many Christians are smug because they are "saved" and accordingly, are very special snowflakes.

I used to work in Lynden, Washington, a majority Dutch Reformed town where social dancing is banned unless you have a permit from the city council and the downtown stores used to sport signs saying "Closed on Sunday, See you in church."  The main church youth group for girls was called the Calvinettes.

It was a cultural education for me.

[SilverBeach]

Just now, older than allosaurs said:

I used to work in Lynden, Washington, a majority Dutch Reformed town where social dancing is banned unless you have a permit from the city council and the downtown stores used to sport signs saying "Closed on Sunday, See you in church."  The main church youth group for girls was called the Calvinettes.

It was a cultural education for me.

The Reformed Church split, you have Christian Reformed and Reformed Church in America, they don't really go by Dutch Reformed anymore. You will see many VanDerHoovens and the like in the congregation though, LOL. Definitely not conservative like that anymore.

[Lisafer]

14 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

In my years in an RCA church, they never once said anything like this. Five point Calvinism was not taught. It was grace and love. Reformed-lite I guess. FWIW, I think the doctrine of election is bullshit. Jesus gets lost in religion.

Yeah, to the RPCNA, the RCA would have been a mainline, possibly apostate church that didn't hold fast to the "true doctrine." I got the five points of Calvinism drummed into me over and over and over...and yet I've left Christianity altogether. I look back and shake my head at the huge issues created around very minor points of theology. 

[SilverBeach]

4 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

Yeah, to the RPCNA, the RCA would have been a mainline, possibly apostate church that didn't hold fast to the "true doctrine."

Not sure what the RPCNA is, but RCA is hardly apostate, it wholeheartedly believes in the Apostles Creed.

[older than allosaurs]

6 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

The Reformed Church split, you have Christian Reformed and Reformed Church in America, they don't really go by Dutch Reformed anymore. You will see many VanDerHoovens and the like in the congregation though, LOL. Definitely not conservative like that anymore.

Lynden has Reformed, Christian Reformed (1st, 2nd and 3rd), Protestant Reformed, United Reformed,  Canadian and American Reformed, and maybe some others I don't know about. They support three different flavors of Reformed private schools as well for a town of 15,000. 

Some of them are very conservative and very Dutch indeed. When one branch loosens up a bit, a group will split off to avoid heresy, so the denominations keep proliferating.

[SilverBeach]

Just now, older than allosaurs said:

Lynden has Reformed, Christian Reformed (1st, 2nd and 3rd), Protestant Reformed, United Reformed,  Canadian and American Reformed, and maybe some others I don't know about. They support three different flavors of Reformed private schools as well for a town of 15,000. 

Some of them are very conservative and very Dutch indeed. When one branch loosens up a bit, a group will split off to avoid heresy, so the denominations keep proliferating.

Where's Lynden? I don't profess to be an expert on all reformed denominations, my actual experience is limited to Christian Reformed and Reformed Church in America, which I know were one denomination at one time. Not too many black people in either one, I was somewhat unique.