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Howl

LGBT perspective: Chris Pratt + Hillsong Church

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Meh
Dreadcrumbs
12 hours ago, CaricatureQualities said:

The thing is, I listened to a 'sermon' from this church on their website about this issue and the pastor in the recording sounded surprised that this was an issue the church had to address. Like, they just wanted to make a church and preach the gospels and make a community to lead (and do it all tax exempt) and then gay people showed up and wanted to know if they could attend and it was like they were stumped that this would come up at all and that they had to come up with something to address it. And they don't want to come off as one of those "crazy anti-gay churches or anything"...they want to seem nice and accepting not mean and bigoted so they say they love homosexuals and welcome them. But really, if you're gonna insist on being gay all you can do is listen to the gospels(how could we deny you that?)...you can't be a part of the community really....you can't be saved. And honestly, I think it's a topic they like to avoid. They (the CCC church) don't seem to be targeting LGBTQ community as much as they are closing their eyes and doors and hoping it will go away.  And it was infuriating because they really think they are being NICE and reasonable about the whole thing! Like they refuse to realize how awful it is to suggest that gay people should try to repress themselves entirely in order to be saved by Jesus and be a part of his new little hip TAX EXEMPT community.  I don't care how many good deeds they do as a community, I don't understand why they just get the right to raise tax free dollars for themselves while excluding a whole portion of the community they are actually in AND influence those people to ruin their lives. But, on the surface it seems alright, you have to look a little bit to find this and I wonder if some attendees even think about what their churches stance on the "whole gay thing" is if it's not something that they think affects their lives and then if they do find out, do they care? Do they realize how hateful it is or do they falsely buy into the idea that their church is loving and accepting? 

 

 

This is what so many of these friggin churches do when asked to clarify their position on LGBT people. They can't avoid acting shocked when asked pretty straightforward and easy to answer questions. They either want to bury their heads in the sand or turn it into a conversation. 🙄

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theotherelise

*Even if* you believed homosexuality was sinful, why the heck do you have treat it differently than any other sin? Because you think it's gross. Because it "perverts" your made-up gender roles which 100% do not exist in the Bible. Because you're a bigot.

I push back on this with so many conservative Christian friends. When you look at the bakery SCOTUS cake about "religious liberty" in not wanting to bake a cake for a wedding between two men, my first thought is, "does your shop bake cakes for weddings where the people have different faiths? where one is agnostic and the other is catholic?" Being unequally yoked in marriage is a sin in the Bible. Marrying a second time when you divorced without Biblical cause is considered adultery in the Bible. Does your cake shop sit down and vet each couple to see if the marriage is Biblically-sound before you decide if you want to participate in the marriage by baking a cake? No. You just don't like gay people. 

The other tell that this is bigotry and not just a sincere belief that homosexuality is a worse sin than anything else? The church's position on people who are transgender. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which could be construed to condemn proclaiming a gender different from the sex you were born with. They legit just use Genesis' "male and female he created them" as if those six words tie a bow and male and female being distinct and permanent. But you can't support transgender people if you want to maintain your absurd complementarian beliefs about gender. White cis-males being uncomfortable or feeling threatened by something is what makes the world go around, apparently.

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Depressed
formergothardite
44 minutes ago, FeministShrew said:

Hillsong sounds like Newspring around here; hipster church with lots of "campuses" throughout the state.  Always packed to the point of needing traffic control. One of my daughter's best friends went there for awhile, until they showed their true colors. He's gay, and kept bragging about how accepting they were, until the Sunday the pastor said something like "we love everyone & encourage you to come as you are, but once you're here you need to deal with your sin before you can join the church or volunteer;" then he made specific remarks about gay people that I can't remember now, but basically calling them sinners but assuring them that they could change & then they'd be saved & could fully participate in the church. Our friend was crushed & hasn't been to any church since (religion, faith, & Christianity is very important to him).

Hillsong sounds like Elevation around here! Does every area have some variation of Hillsong?! Elevation allows gay people to come they just can't serve in the church if they are openly gay. Elevation has also gotten in hot water because they advertised "spontaneous" baptisms of thousands of people but it ends up it was all very, very planned out. The church also manages to have some really secretive and shady finance stuff going on. 

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AlwaysExcited
39 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

One thing Pratt said was the church accepts him as a divorced man, so clearly they’re accepting. That is such a low bar.  That means nothing. I’ve said this elsewhere, but there are churches near me with giant pride flags and BLM signs. One church has a big sign welcoming refugees and immigrants.

Plus, Pratt is a celebrity, and the church needs him for publicity. Of course they are accepting of him and his "sins". 

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Pecansforeveryone

If we are going to quote Jesus's words on sin, well surprise, surprise he says absolutely nothing about homosexuality. His words on divorce, on the other hand, are very strong. Chris Pratt would have been guilty of adultery twice because Anna Farris was divorced when she and Chris married. Do you want to explain your pattern of adultery, Chris? A pattern that you are continuing by getting re-married? If you want to play the "It's all good because of Jesus card" then do it honestly and straight forwardly. Enough of this trickery and slight of words bullshit. 

Edited by Pecansforeveryone
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seraaa
2 hours ago, lilwriter85 said:

I think they are going to be really pushed to release a statement especially since Pratt says they don't discriminate against people regardless of sexual orientation or race. 

I have the feeling that the war of words between Pratt and Page is going to end up giving more media focus about celebrities who attend churches that are against homosexuality and gay marriage. Outside of popular celeb hangout churches like Hillsong or Zoe, there are some celebrities who could be attending churches or religious communities that aren't too gay friendly. Those celebs may be flying under the radar since their churches don't get the media attention that Hillsong and their plant churches get. 

Or they won't, because in their own minds it isn't discrimination

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Depressed
formergothardite

If they do release a statement, I won't be surprised if it is as vague as possible about their beliefs. 

The pastor did openly support a film that refers to being gay as a sin. 

Quote

Each individual shares their own experience with sexual brokenness, from porn addiction to same-sex attraction and infidelity, and overcoming the shame and condemnation that follows. 

https://www.gospelherald.com/articles/71371/20170912/pastor-chad-veach-reveals-why-person-needs-watch-heart-man.htm

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VelociRapture

You know, Chris Pratt’s statement was interesting. Especially how he worded it that people should be free of judgement by their “fellow man.” To me, that leaves the door wide open to Pratt believing that God could have a different and harsher standard of judgement than humans do. Maybe I’m paranoid, but I think that portion might have been worded pretty carefully - kind of like Erin Paine carefully disavowing Gothard, but saying nothing against IBLP

I also found this article kind of interesting as well:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.elle.com.au/amp/celebrity/chris-pratt-religion-19669

He was recruited by the Jews for Jesus people right before his career took off, his faith was reaffirmed/strengthened by his son’s premature birth and NICU stay, he takes Jack to Church with him (ugh), and he apparently met Katherine at Church. 

And here’s more info on the Marottis of New Life Church in Connecticut for anyone interested:

https://culteducation.com/group/936-christian-fundamentalists/7349-preacher-has-no-problem-with-mixing-politics-religion.html

ETA: The more I read about New Life the more I dislike them. That’s an old article, but it states that he’s a fan of Jerry Falwell, took courses at Liberty University, Marotti states that homosexuality is a sin, and that he’d like abortion to be illegal. 

I’m starting to see now why my current town consistently votes Republican. 

Edited by VelociRapture

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Terrie
1 hour ago, theotherelise said:

They legit just use Genesis' "male and female he created them" as if those six words tie a bow and male and female being distinct and permanent.

God created Adam and Even as adults, yet we are created as infants. And some fundies apparently take this verse as an instruction to never grow up. 

Edited by Terrie

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HarryPotterFan
1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

And here’s more info on the Marottis of New Life Church in Connecticut for anyone interested:

My brain read that as “Marriotts” and I got confused because they’re Mormon and don’t live in CT

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Waffle Time
Hane
24 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

My brain read that as “Marriotts” and I got confused because they’re Mormon and don’t live in CT

We have Mormons in Connecticut—enough that they built a temple near Hartford a couple of years ago!. 😊

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Waffle Time
Hane

@VelociRapture, thanks for finding that article! I read it years ago. Every year when I attend my city’s MLK Day scholarship breakfast, that douchebag Marotti shows up and parks himself up at the front table with the mainstream clergy and I want to hurl. I was glad to see the rabbi, the Congregationalist minister, and the American Baptist Convention pastor represented in the article. 

Oh, and I want the damn South Meriden Pharmacy Back. It was right near my house, had a postal substation, and was SO convenient.😡

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VelociRapture
1 hour ago, Hane said:

We have Mormons in Connecticut—enough that they built a temple near Hartford a couple of years ago!. 😊

There are no Mormons in my family, but I actually have a personal connection to that Temple. I won’t go into specifics. I do know people in the area were not initially happy about the Temple since it doesn’t fit the New England “look.” It’s a beautiful looking building, but I do think people had a point. It really doesn’t look like something you’d expect to see in New England. 

The Mormons themselves are apparently very friendly. They allowed the general public to tour the Temple before it was consecrated (or whatever they call it.) I know a few people who went and said it was interesting, but I opted not to because it was getting towards the end of my pregnancy and I was tired.

Edited by VelociRapture

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Wine time!
AmericanRose

From the Elle article:
"Chris has also spoken about how Jack's difficult birth (he was born five months premature) renewed his faith in God."
5 months, 9 weeks.... big difference!!!

This is surprising and disappointing to hear. I'm not a Pratt fan, but I did enjoy him on Everwood back in the day. Who knew...?

It's good these "hip" churches are being called out though. I'm always suspicious of religion, but especially when it paints itself as something shiny and 'modern'. There's usually some sort of ugly lurking underneath, and a lot of people try not to look too close.

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Happy
PennySycamore

@AmericanRose, yeah it's not possible to save a baby born 5 months premature.  The fetal lungs are a solid block of tissue with no alveolar development at all.  There's a huge difference between 5 months and 9 weeks premature.

ETA:  No skin either at 5 months premature.  

Edited by PennySycamore

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stylites
5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Hillsong sounds like Elevation around here! Does every area have some variation of Hillsong?! Elevation allows gay people to come they just can't serve in the church if they are openly gay. Elevation has also gotten in hot water because they advertised "spontaneous" baptisms of thousands of people but it ends up it was all very, very planned out. The church also manages to have some really secretive and shady finance stuff going on. 

The 'local' Hillsongs met in a large cinema/theatre, and were very aussie expat focused, and as a result seemed rather 'hollow' on church - the format would have made it hard for anyone new to integrate into the church, unless they were australian and/or a natural extrovert.

In addition to their big pre offering 'talk' that had a very prosperity bent, it was noticeable that the only people who got to get on stage were conventionally attractive.

Just another thing of note which is either positive or neutral depending on your religious convictions; the lyrics of their songs are noticeably orthodox in nature when contrasted with their teaching - especially if you compare them with other similar movements like Bethel.

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Walking Cat Bed

Well, Pratt keeps serving evidence that he is not the Superior Chris. 

 

(That's either Evans or Hemsworth. Depends on the day, I guess.)

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Terrie
19 minutes ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

Well, Pratt keeps serving evidence that he is not the Superior Chris. 

 

(That's either Evans or Hemsworth. Depends on the day, I guess.)

I'm partial to Evans, personally, for his willingness to merge with his character of Captain America and call Trump an idiot and an asshole on Twitter.

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Walking Cat Bed
12 minutes ago, Terrie said:

I'm partial to Evans, personally, for his willingness to merge with his character of Captain America and call Trump an idiot and an asshole on Twitter.

Also, I don't feel like a jerk for my attraction, as Evans is not married (Hemsworth is).

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Depressed
formergothardite

I attempted to watch a Zoe church sermon and made it 25 seconds in before it was just too much. I also attempted to watch a day in the life of Zoe church and gave up when the preacher said we were hanging today and he was going to shout someone down. I almost got second hand embarrassment watching this almost 40 year old man trying so, so hard to act like a cool teenager. 

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SecularMusic
On February 11, 2019 at 9:35 AM, apple1 said:

As (I think) FJers know who have read my posts over time, I self-identify as a Christian. I hope I express my faith just a fraction as well as did Fred Rogers.

As for the super-hip, Hillsong or similar wannabe churches -- I hate it. (Admittedly, Hillsong has had some worship music that I still like). However - as even my daughter says, church is not supposed to be a rock concert - or a big, produced, show. I hate the "fakey" feel. I hate the going after particular groups of people while minimizing or excluding others - and those in the excluded group are much more numerous than first appears. I hate the partially-masked political opinions.

I feel like, as a self-identified Christian, I should somehow apologize for those people. It's not my Christianity. For all these reasons, and some more, my Christianity is currently a private thing, and I admit that I currently do not attend formal services. (And it makes me sad).

I hope this wasn't too off-topic.

I can relate to what you said about being a Christian and trying to distinguish yourself from the hateful views of certain denominations and individual Christians.

I stopped going to service for a while after Trump was elected and the crazy evangelicals came out in full force. I just did not want any association with them even though at that point, I had long left my independent fundie church and was attending a more mainstream denomination.  When some of the people in our congregation started posting anti-immigrant, anti BLM and pro-nationalism posts on social media I'd had enough.

 

 

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Spent
Briefly
29 minutes ago, SecularMusic said:

I can relate to what you said about being a Christian and trying to distinguish yourself from the hateful views of certain denominations and individual Christians.

I stopped going to service for a while after Trump was elected and the crazy evangelicals came out in full force. I just did not want any association with them even though at that point, I had long left my independent fundie church and was attending a more mainstream denomination.  When some of the people in our congregation started posting anti-immigrant, anti BLM and pro-nationalism posts on social media I'd had enough.

 

 

The "last straw" on my finally making the official move from the SBC to the United Methodist church was hearing and seeing some of the pro-trump crap coming out of the SBC.

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Waffle Time
Hane

@VelociRapture, I completely agree about the Hartford (actually Farmington) temple! Its style would have fit in if it had built in the older part of downtown Hartford, but looks entirely out of place where it is. I was sorry to have missed its open house—I was curious to see what it looked like inside.

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HarryPotterFan
3 hours ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

Well, Pratt keeps serving evidence that he is not the Superior Chris. 

 

(That's either Evans or Hemsworth. Depends on the day, I guess.)

Chris Evans can share my bed any day

8 hours ago, Hane said:

We have Mormons in Connecticut—enough that they built a temple near Hartford a couple of years ago!. 😊

But do little kids think that temple is Disney World like the one in the DC area?07EB4B92-9E73-4956-93F2-E68D02AFB56C.thumb.jpeg.ce170ce4b3de5f21186cb9bb40a0a823.jpeg

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Waffle Time
Hane
4 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

 

But do little kids think that temple is Disney World like the one in the DC area?07EB4B92-9E73-4956-93F2-E68D02AFB56C.thumb.jpeg.ce170ce4b3de5f21186cb9bb40a0a823.jpeg

No—it looks less like the stereotypical Mormon temple and more like a big gray stone government building.

Your comment reminds me of the little kid I saw walking down the long, wide, white corridor of our local hospital, passing the gift shop, and asking his mom if they could go to the Disney store.

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