Seewalds 38: Waiting on Seaweed Three

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

In our society, if a pregnancy happens, it is easier to deal with for the man than the woman. And more women get raped than men. So that's probably where her worries stem from. 

Not dressing slutty, well, I wouldn't want any of my (hypothetical) kids to dress slutty regardless of their sex, because in most circumstances that's not appropriate. Goes for both boys and girls. 

In our society, almost all rapists are men. We should focus in that. We as a society are raising men to feel free to rape, and I say that because that fellony is not dissapearing in modern societies. We as a society are not protecting women (because isolating is not protection: many of these fellonies are done inside home). 

So no, it's not easier to raise boys. It's a false statement.  Parents should make an extra effort with boys, to make sure they will respect women. It's not easy in a society were porn is the king of internet and patriarchy still has the power and puts women in a weak position.

 

[Irishy]

I have three boys followed by a girl. She was an accident. We were not ‘trying for the girl’.

I could sense the grandmothers and others disappointment when boy 3 was born and this made me fiercely protective of him. I remember taking him to a coffee shop when he was just a few days old, and sitting next to us was a child in a wheelchair with profound intellectual disability, and thinking - Jesus Christ I have a perfect healthy newborn baby boy here and people are saying Aw to me because he is not a girl? What is wrong with the world???

When I learned I was pregnant with my fourth, I opted to find out sex. Only because I wanted to shut down any ‘fingers crossed for a girl’ talk, as they had ruined the days after my third son’s birth. (We didn’t find out on any of the first three). Imagine my shock when it actually was a girl. I didn’t really believe it until she was born. 

There was so much fuss over her arrival that it kind of annoyed me, and I think it affected my relationship with her. I was determined that she was going to be no more special than her big brothers. As a result, I think I’ve always been slightly harder on her and it’s terribly unfair. She is 8 now and an absolute delight. Thankfully I have great relationships with all my kids but they are all different.

Her dad and I are divorced now and it wrecks my head how he calls her princess, yet has very little interest in her because he doesn’t relate to her. She is mad for his attention and all male attention. I have a lot of work to do here.

[Glasgowghirl]

8 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I think a big breaking point for Tyler was when Cate wanted to go back to rehab days after getting home rather than doing outpatient and follow-up. He said, “what about Nova?” and Cate responded, “she’ll manage.” That’s really when I lost any sympathy for her over her mental health issues. Her own mom gave her abandonment issues and now she’s doing that to her own kid? 

I think Cate believes if she gives Tyler his precious boy then he will never leave her. Since this baby is a girl, Cate blames her for their marital issues and Tyler having one foot out the door. I think she really thought a boy would fix everything.

Cate bitches about April one minute then leaves Nova with her for days. As awful as April was to her growing up and in the aftermath of the adoption, she has stepped up in the last few years and to keep bringing everything up while she is helping her watch her child is horrible. Her disregard for Nova is hard to watch, she got mad at her because after the last rehab stint Nova wanted her to give her a bath. Nova is already in Carly's shadows and now she has a new sister that will get more attention. Another child added in to the mix boy or girl is not fair to any of the children.

[Carm_88]

Jessa's birthday post for Henry. There had to be a bit of God in there, but she did talk about what Henry loves. I think it's cute that he walks around with pretzels in his pocket for a snack. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Obligatory I dislike their values and what they stand for....

 

But hot damn, Jessa and Ben make freakin' adorable kids. 

[Eponine]

10 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Not dressing slutty, well, I wouldn't want any of my (hypothetical) kids to dress slutty regardless of their sex, because in most circumstances that's not appropriate. Goes for both boys and girls. 

"Slutty," especially in the context of clothing, is a super gendered descriptor, and it's almost nonsensical in our society to apply it to men, particularly straight men. It's a value judgment of a person's morals/activities/etc based on their clothing choices - when we call someone's clothes "slutty" it's because we project an idea of sexual availability based on those clothes. The problem is, judgments about sexual availability in practice really only harm women and are applied almost exclusively to women.

Whenever I say this someone always says, "well I would say a man is dressed slutty too if he wore revealing or tight fitting clothing!" That's fine, but I have literally never heard that word used to describe a straight man's clothing if it's not in the middle of an discussion about it. In actual practice only the tiniest minority of people described as "dressing slutty" are straight men**. And usually when it's put onto gay men it's because (surprise surprise) they're wearing clothes that read as more feminine.

So yeah, as a parent it's harmful to worry about "slutty" clothing because in practice that worry will project only onto their girls the vast, vast majority of times it comes up.

Appropriate clothes/dressing for a particular occasion is a whole different issue than deeming someone's clothes "slutty." Boys and girls have to learn that equally, and even though girls and women are held to higher dress standards in general it's not inherently a gendered thing.

**I've heard coworkers refer to men who wear, for example, low riding jeans or tank tops as dressing "ghetto," which has a whole other set of problematic connotations - but this is the only time I've ever heard people discuss how "revealing" a straight man's clothing is.

[Whatthefundie]

I had a dream that Jessa had already given birth to baby number 3 and it was a girl. She had a home birth and baby girl was about the size of Felicity at birth. 

[VineHeart137]

Ben's mom (I'm assuming) posted this pic of Jessa and Henry that is admittedly very sweet.

 

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Obligatory I dislike their values and what they stand for....

 

But hot damn, Jessa and Ben make freakin' adorable kids. 

Their kids are gorgeous. And so happy, too! I think that's part of their attractiveness, they are just very calm and content little boys.

It's so obvious they want another boy that I am hoping they have a girl. Whenever fundies say, "I think it's a . . . " it generally seems to mean that's what they want.

[nausicaa]

15 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

Same! My daughter is in ballet and loves to dress up in "princess" dresses. She also loves dinosaurs, wearing superhero capes, and has asked for the theme of her birthday party this year to be The Flash. It's pretty awesome!

Yeah, I'm always surprised when people categorize girls into these neat "girly girl" or "tomboy" boxes. Isn't a part of being a kid a wide range of interests and a very plastic mind that is still developing and therefore very experimental? I'd play dress up in princess dresses in the morning and then want to go collect bugs in my backyard in the afternoon. I loved ballet and playing with my dollhouse, but had a construction site cake for my birthday and wanted my dad to teach me how to fish. I feel like most of my classmates were the same way, unless they had parental pressure forcing them to conform to a certain archetype.

And yeah, pregnancy always brings a lot of weird gender stuff, even in people I'd otherwise considered progressive. I have to bite my tongue A LOT.

11 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

Not dressing slutty, well, I wouldn't want any of my (hypothetical) kids to dress slutty regardless of their sex, because in most circumstances that's not appropriate. 

What is the definition of "dressing slutty"?

[Granwych]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:22 PM, feministxtian said:

I did that...and I have 3 "mini-mes". Some of them look more like me but goddammit, the ALL act like me. 

That's not such a bad thing now, right??!!

[front hugs > duggs]

I used to identify as a tomboy as a kid. I loved sports and loved wearing t-shirts, athletic shorts, and sneakers every day just like my older brother did. I also ALWAYS wore my hair in a ponytail. I remember when I decided around 12ish that I wanted to start wearing other clothes that are more traditionally "girly" - I don't even mean pink or dresses or skirts, I just mean I started shopping in the girls departments of stores  Anyway, I remember being so embarrassed to make the change because it was noticeable and people were going to (and did) ask questions or make comments. I hated that I had been put into a box and it was considered a "big change" to change the clothes I wore on a daily basis, when it's completely normal for kids to change interests while growing up anyway. I continued to play the sports I always had, but also developed an interested in cheerleading. That one really messed with people, family and friends alike.

Now, I'm almost thirty, and still enjoy playing sports and wearing sweats more than fashion/make up. I won't mind if I have a boy or girl, won't mind what their interests are, and I feel confident I'll be able to connect with whoever about whatever they love ❤️

[PurpleCats]

The most sad part of Jessa’s family is that I think she’s a good parent to the two she has now, and can probably manage three just fine.  Hell, I would even say maybe four, if they’re all spaced out two years apart.   She loves them very dearly for who they are, not just because they’re another notch in her belt (womb?).  If she continues down this path and ends up with 14 though, she can’t possibly give each one the attention and energy the boys get now. Eventually, there will be a “Lost kids” situation with sister/aunt mom’s just like her family.  

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, Granwych said:

That's not such a bad thing now, right??!!

The jury is still out...

[Georgiana]

When it comes to dress, we ought to make an effort to ensure children are taught to dress APPROPRIATELY.  The problem comes in when we respond to inappropriate dress in one gender forcefully ("sluttiness", which is almost always something about a woman) but ignore or have a lesser response to inappropriate dress in the other (I think teenage boys tend towards "slobbishness" sometimes, which is equally inappropriate in many settings but rarely addressed).  What is unfair is when we police and punish young women for having a skirt too short or a neckline slightly too low and tell her that her clothes are inappropriate for school and that she must change to be more respectful, but ignore or merely handslap the young man who shows up with sagging pants, wrinkled and unwashed shirts, etc.  It's when we punish the female students for showing a bra strap, but ignore the male student showing his boxers that we fail to recognize that the only reason this is seen as slutty for one gender but not the other is because one gender is more sexualized than the other...and that's NOT something a student can control NOR should they be unfairly punished for it.

My high school had a strict dress code, and personally I found it was wonderfully useful in learning appropriate clothing standards for more formal settings.  I still use their guidelines to this day for my work attire.  BUT their guidelines addressed both genders equally, and it was actually MORE common to see the males with dress code infractions than female students. 

[Sullie06]

21 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I used to like Cate but the last two seasons she has pissed me off big time, I have had depression on and off since I was 10 and while I sympathise with her, I also think she was using her depression as an excuse to be lazy. She went to rehab last time without even discussing it with Tyler, she just told him she was leaving and he was left running their business, sorting out the new house and taking care of Nova and while she was at rehab she missed some of the group sessions because she stayed up late watching DVDs. She seemed to be complaining more about it being a girl than Tyler at the gender reveal and Tyler's mother ended up saying something to her. Having a baby is not going to solve their issues. Bringing more children in to a relationship that is in trouble is not a good idea, they need to see if it can work on their issues or call it quits. Tyler was trying to get couples counseling and she was unwilling to do it because she wasn't ready. 

Exactly. PPD is very real and very serious but I think with Cate it's also an excuse for her to get away. I thought it was wrong last season when she just told Tyler she was leaving without any conversation. I have also been confused on why she has to keep going to Arizona. Isn't there a rehab that would be closer to Michigan than that? 

18 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

Same! My daughter is in ballet and loves to dress up in "princess" dresses. She also loves dinosaurs, wearing superhero capes, and has asked for the theme of her birthday party this year to be The Flash. It's pretty awesome!

One time we were at a birthday party for one of my daughter's friends and the birthday girl's brother got his hands on a Barbie. I heard his mom verbally question why he was holding it and his grandmother ended up taking it away and encouraging him to go play trucks with his brother. You could literally see the disappointment on this kid's face as he halfheartedly pushed around a toy dump truck. It was really sad. I really don't know what harm they expected to come from a kid playing with a Barbie.

I know it's so sad. I feel so bad for kids when I see their parents doing that. Like let the kid play with the barbie, what's it going to do to him? There is defiantly a double standard too. I've never had anyone question my daughter playing with trucks or dinos but I've had people say stuff about my son playing with dolls. 

13 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I think a big breaking point for Tyler was when Cate wanted to go back to rehab days after getting home rather than doing outpatient and follow-up. He said, “what about Nova?” and Cate responded, “she’ll manage.” That’s really when I lost any sympathy for her over her mental health issues. Her own mom gave her abandonment issues and now she’s doing that to her own kid? 

Agreed. You could completely read his emotions on his face without a word being said. Plus she really doesn't think about anyone but herself. It's obvious. I have to be away from my kids coming up for 4 weeks (home on the weekends) for a work training that is mandatory and it's killing me. She just no problem jets off to treatment with no worry about her husband or daughter. "She'll manage" is right but when shes an adult she will know who raised her and who pretended to when the camera was on. 

[nastyhobbitses]

With regard to gender roles...hell, after I do a strenuous powerlifting session I hope in the shower and then do full-glam makeup and put on stiletto heels for work. I bring pink frosted petits fours to my wargaming/RPG group in which I am the only woman. I am just as happy pounding beers with my boyfriend's army mates as I am shopping for cute dresses and makeup (my next big splurge is going to be another Charlotte Tilbury lipstick). I resent both being looked at as strange or quirky or "one of the guys" (or labeled as a fake nerd/cool girl) simply because I enjoy traditionally masculine pursuits, and being seen as frivolous when I'm enjoying traditionally feminine things. Like what you like. Also, being girly is not a bad thing. I get so tired of the damned-if-you-do situation in which women who aren't "feminine enough" are treated like crap and called all sorts of demeaning things, and women who are "too feminine" are seen as brainwashed, stupid, or incapable. Fuck that noise. 

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, Sullie06 said:

Exactly. PPD is very real and very serious but I think with Cate it's also an excuse for her to get away. I thought it was wrong last season when she just told Tyler she was leaving without any conversation. I have also been confused on why she has to keep going to Arizona. Isn't there a rehab that would be closer to Michigan than that? 

Agreed. You could completely read his emotions on his face without a word being said. Plus she really doesn't think about anyone but herself. It's obvious. I have to be away from my kids coming up for 4 weeks (home on the weekends) for a work training that is mandatory and it's killing me. She just no problem jets off to treatment with no worry about her husband or daughter. "She'll manage" is right but when shes an adult she will know who raised her and who pretended to when the camera was on. 

Cate and Amber were awful to watch last season because they both were lazy and kept on blaming everything on everyone else but themselves. Amber was in LA for a month and when Gary and Kristina brought Leah to see her and even kept James overnight she cancelled a trip to the nail salon the next day to go paragliding with Andrew and Leah still leaving James with Gary and Kristina. She made out that she was doing it for Leah but Leah wasn't that bothered about it and would have probably been happier getting her nails done with her mum, step mum and little sister. Not seeing their children for a month is normal to them.

 

[PainfullyAware]

I think the 'sluttiness' label is on one side of the same spectrum that blames rape on the woman for what she wears on the on the other side of the spectrum. It's the negative gendered judgement that's the problem.

I'm not saying dressing in a flirtatious or revealing way that says 'I'm feeling sexy' doesn't invite others to appreciate the body in a sexual way, but the key is only wanted attention or consensual flirtation. And not negative stigma. But there are certain contexts where that's appropriate and others where we should communicate something else via clothing ("I mean business" or "feeling whimsical" or whatever).

If Jessa has kids every other year until she turns 40, she will end up with 10 overall and Spurgeon will be 18 when she has her last. I think actually she will probably be able to give little ones just enough attention if she never has more than 5 under 10 years of age. It'll be tough and exhausting though and she will need help from family. But it won't be as bad as life at the TTH.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

23 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

With regard to gender roles...hell, after I do a strenuous powerlifting session I hope in the shower and then do full-glam makeup and put on stiletto heels for work. I bring pink frosted petits fours to my wargaming/RPG group in which I am the only woman. I am just as happy pounding beers with my boyfriend's army mates as I am shopping for cute dresses and makeup (my next big splurge is going to be another Charlotte Tilbury lipstick). I resent both being looked at as strange or quirky or "one of the guys" (or labeled as a fake nerd/cool girl) simply because I enjoy traditionally masculine pursuits, and being seen as frivolous when I'm enjoying traditionally feminine things. Like what you like. Also, being girly is not a bad thing. I get so tired of the damned-if-you-do situation in which women who aren't "feminine enough" are treated like crap and called all sorts of demeaning things, and women who are "too feminine" are seen as brainwashed, stupid, or incapable. Fuck that noise. 

Yay! I loved your post. Martial arts practitioner and flowery dresses wearer here (not at the same time) ? 

At the beginning, I got so much cr*p by my late grandma, bless her resting soul, for practicing a "non-ladylike" sport. Somehow, when she realized that it would be good for self defense, just in case, she did a 180 and really took an interest in my progress!

[Meggo]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 1:06 PM, Sullie06 said:

 I just think it's so important to let them be who they are and not force these ideas or roles on them. 

Agreed. We got stuck in the truck space because Daddy owns a construction company (so excavators & dump trucks - he sees all the time). 
But he also LOVES to cook, LOVES to snuggle, loves to tuck his stuffies in when they're sick etc and always wants to help me sew or knit. He just has a variety of interests - and I love watching him FIND them all.

[AtlanticTug]

I had a boy first, then a girl. 

What I noticed immediately after we had her is that when we had our son, people would show up with all sorts of gifts for him as a baby and then a toddler. Sure, he got some cute clothes and shoes but he also got a ton of books, toys of all kinds, puzzles, baby musical instruments like maracas and drums, all manner of blocks and Legos, tool sets, etc. My daughter almost exclusively got clothes, and all very pink and frilly. 90% of the rest of her gifts were things like stuffed bears, dogs, bunnies almost all of which were pink, a few books. But even if I hadn't gone out and bought her super girly things, she received them from everyone around us, even people who I would have sworn would never buy such things.

I do agree that in the age of social media there seems to be a preference of sorts for girl babies who are essentially turned into live dolls/models for the world to see. 

[Meggo]

I don't have a girl - and it's not likely I will. But I do like to think I'd have bought the same things for a girl that we bought for our son. I was surprised HOW many blue, with trucks things we got - everything had trucks on it. Books about trucks, play trucks, shirts with trucks, socks with trucks. It was overwhelming & I kept trying to think it was because of Hubs business and NOT that our son was a boy - but... I don't know. 

For Christmas - my sister got him post it notes, cute "office" supplies (so he would stop stealing MINE) and then a series of metal tins to put things in. He's in love. The other one got him little note cards because he's super into "writing" notes to his friends. He was super excited about that and just wrote letters again yesterday. So - at least I think we're trying to balance it all out. Hopefully?

[JillyO]

14 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

What I noticed immediately after we had her is that when we had our son, people would show up with all sorts of gifts for him as a baby and then a toddler. Sure, he got some cute clothes and shoes but he also got a ton of books, toys of all kinds, puzzles, baby musical instruments like maracas and drums, all manner of blocks and Legos, tool sets, etc. My daughter almost exclusively got clothes, and all very pink and frilly. 90% of the rest of her gifts were things like stuffed bears, dogs, bunnies almost all of which were pink, a few books. But even if I hadn't gone out and bought her super girly things, she received them from everyone around us, even people who I would have sworn would never buy such things.

Even though most of my friends are around 30, almost no one has kids yet. But this is a good reminder that once people do start having kids, I want to be very concious about giving equal gifts for boys and girls. Girls like books and play-doh and drums and legos just as much as boys do, and we should all encourage that!

[Sullie06]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:29 PM, Glasgowghirl said:

Cate and Amber were awful to watch last season because they both were lazy and kept on blaming everything on everyone else but themselves. Amber was in LA for a month and when Gary and Kristina brought Leah to see her and even kept James overnight she cancelled a trip to the nail salon the next day to go paragliding with Andrew and Leah still leaving James with Gary and Kristina. She made out that she was doing it for Leah but Leah wasn't that bothered about it and would have probably been happier getting her nails done with her mum, step mum and little sister. Not seeing their children for a month is normal to them.

 

I hated when she did that too because you could see it upset Kristina too. They made the trip to LA, they watched your newborn to give you a night off, they are raising your daughter. The least she could have done was include Kristina in the paragliding trip, or at least asked if she wanted to tag along. Amber is lazy and she's lucky she has Kristina and Gary for else Leah would be a mess.

On 2/8/2019 at 8:21 PM, AtlanticTug said:

I had a boy first, then a girl. 

What I noticed immediately after we had her is that when we had our son, people would show up with all sorts of gifts for him as a baby and then a toddler. Sure, he got some cute clothes and shoes but he also got a ton of books, toys of all kinds, puzzles, baby musical instruments like maracas and drums, all manner of blocks and Legos, tool sets, etc. My daughter almost exclusively got clothes, and all very pink and frilly. 90% of the rest of her gifts were things like stuffed bears, dogs, bunnies almost all of which were pink, a few books. But even if I hadn't gone out and bought her super girly things, she received them from everyone around us, even people who I would have sworn would never buy such things.

I do agree that in the age of social media there seems to be a preference of sorts for girl babies who are essentially turned into live dolls/models for the world to see. 

OMG the stuffed animals. Same with my daughter, she got a ton of them, heck still does and she doesn't pay with any of them. She has 2 that she sleeps with and the rest are in in a basket in her room, piling up with each birthday/holiday collecting dust. I think I'm going to just donate them to a local nursing home because they gather them for the residents. My son has a huge basket of them in his room as well but he actually plays with his.