Seewalds 38: Waiting on Seaweed Three

[singsingsing]

7 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

If all we can contribute is discussing other women’s weddings, pregnancies, babies, baking cookies, and our grocery list in life... how can we expect men to take us seriously as equals? Shouldn’t we challenge each other to cultivate significant interests and tell our husbands to do their part (whether that be baking, changing a diaper, or grocery shopping)?

Are we hurting other women by solely living our lives in the domestic sphere rather than taking on a significant, individual identity (whether that be through work or volunteering)? 

Why should we encourage other women to partake in discussion of the best Pinterest cookie recipe vs. educating the themselves on the stock market or politics? 

Why do you think Biden has been considered a leading candidate despite the recent inappropriate touching scandal over someone like Kamala Harris?

For instance, would you want your daughter to find someone like Jessa or Kirsten Gillibrand relatable? Would you want your daughter to be like Jessa or AOC (or Hillary, Meg Whitman, Marissa Mayer, etc.) Let’s be real.

I’d like to challenge myself, and other women, to consider if we’re actually helping other women by engaging in only stereotypical domestic-sphere interests or hurting each other. If that’s the case, perhaps we all, especially Jessa, can change that. It is never too soon or too late in life to realize the power we have as women and do what we can to make progress.

This entire post is so incredibly offensive and backwards that I almost have no idea what to say.

Who are you even talking to? Yourself? If these are changes you want to implement in your own life, go for it, but please don't make assumptions about other women. I can't relate to anything you're saying.

You might consider that it's possible to be interested in multiple things, that your judgement of what is or is not frivolous or unimportant might actually be bullshit, and that women should be respected, taken seriously, and treated as equals regardless of misogynistic ideas about what constitutes a 'serious' interest. Feminism means you can bake cookies and be interested in the stock market, be interested in the stock market and not bake cookies, or bake cookies and not be interested in the stock market.

Also consider that this is a forum dedicated specifically to the Duggars and a thread dedicated specifically to discussing Jessa and Ben Seewald and their children. I'm not sure why it would surprise anyone that you don't find in-depth conversations about the stock market and Joe Biden here. Have you visited FJ's Politics forum?

Maybe find some other groups, whether online or offline, that are dedicated to the interests you deem significant? If the only things you ever see women discussing are babies, cookies, and Pinterest, and you don't like it, that is your problem. You need to seek out other sources of information and conversation and cultivate that in your own life, and stop judging and flinging crap at other women in the meantime, because you're way off the mark.

[nst]

13 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Why do people hate on Jill yet jizz themselves over Jessa? Is it simply because Jessa has the prettiest face (according to Hollywood culture norms) with the Angelina Jolie pout? Is it because Jessa is knocked up all the time or because people are baby obsessed?

I don’t get it. Jessa is no different than Jill. However, their Instagram commenters are completely different. Then again, I’m not a Duggar fan.

Maybe I just don’t understand the Jessa fans that jizz themselves over her pregnancies and babies? As a woman, pregnancy is great and having kids is amazing but there is more than life than to being a baby-machine. How can society treat women equal to men if we spend our time obsessing over other women’s weddings, pregnancies, and their babies?

I’m a believer in getting married, having kids, and moving the hell on with impacting the world. By moving on, I’m referring to developing a healthy identity that does not represent a stereotype of how a woman should spend her time compared to a man. Just because women don’t have a penis doesn’t make us less important and I’m trying to make sure I do my part by not acting like a 1950s housewife stereotype or a Lori A fanatic.

Men need to stop comparing other females to their “ol’ ditzy wives in the kitchen busying about the children and trying to DIY the reno for the bedroom AGAIN” and they won’t stop doing it until we view ourselves as the important and equal individuals that we are.

Maybe it’s harsh but it’s the cold, hard truth. We need to focus on being as passionate as women like Hillary, RBG, and AOC instead of falling into the domestic boxes patriarchy tries to place us in. 

Disclaimer: I’m also preaching to myself. I ended up blocking Pinterest and Facebook. I realized that if I want to help my fellow women to be taken as seriously as men, then I need to stop playing into a patriarchal domestic role. Women, whether they are SAHM or working moms can develop an identity of influence and serve our communities. Nancy Pelosi was a SAHM of 5 kids for YEARS before entering politics. If I’m itching for something domestic to do (renovate, decorate, or bake, etc.) I ask my husband to help me. If I crave Pinterest, I check CNN, Bloomberg, or Wall Street Journal. I’m more interested in the economy and politics than make-up now.

jizz myself over jessa. um no. I did jizz myself over ben for a while.  Jill is just wrong on so many levels as is jessa but Jessa doesn't hide it and pretend like Jill does.  

you don't have to get married and have kids to impact the world.  And thanks for reminding us who didn't have kids or get married FOR WHATEVER reason that we don't impact the world.  I seem to impact my world just fine. Thank you. 

moving on 

i mean come on. Please

13 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

I had heartburn all six times, varying amounts of hair resulted.

I have one piece of IKEA furniture; the EXPEDIT, 3 x 4. I bought it some years ago after learning it was the thing to put vinyl albums in. They make a different thing now instead which doesn't look nearly as solid. 

 

I still have the table in my kitchen that my parents had in 1985....scary - It's oval - i want a long one made of granite one day. 

[samurai_sarah]

7 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

If all we can contribute is discussing other women’s weddings, pregnancies, babies, baking cookies, and our grocery list in life... how can we expect men to take us seriously as equals? Shouldn’t we challenge each other to cultivate significant interests and tell our husbands to do their part (whether that be baking, changing a diaper, or grocery shopping)?

(snip)

Just because men and other women say that this isn't important, doesn't mean it isn't. A significant interest is whatever that means to you. I'm not interested in knitting or shooting. That says more about me than about the people who are interested. So, shouldn't we cultivate talents and interests regardless of sex and gender?

How about men living up to women? How about disregarding the seeming divide? Each to their own?

 

[HereticHick]

8 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

 

For instance, would you want your daughter to find someone like Jessa or Kirsten Gillibrand relatable? Would you want your daughter to be like Jessa or AOC (or Hillary, Meg Whitman, Marissa Mayer, etc.) Let’s be real.

I’d like to challenge myself, and other women, to consider if we’re actually helping other women by engaging in only stereotypical domestic-sphere interests or hurting each other. If that’s the case, perhaps we all, especially Jessa, can change that. It is never too soon or too late in life to realize the power we have as women and do what we can to make progress.

You do get that this a fundy snark board, right? I'm a little puzzled because you don't seem to have just joined FJ yesterday. Do you really think ANYONE on FJ wants their daughter to be like Jessa Duggar Seewald?

And I hate to break this to you, but we all have aspects of our lives other than FJ. For example, I've worked on Capitol Hill for over 20 years. FJ is an escape from that.  No offense to Kirsten or AOC, but I don't want to talk about them, or to them, 24 hours a day.

[backyard sylph]

9 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I’d like to challenge myself, and other women, to consider if we’re actually helping other women by engaging in only stereotypical domestic-sphere interests or hurting each other.

Fortunately, my three daughters and three sons continue to both be their own individuals and not think of my domestic-sphere interests as either the One True Way or something to disparage.

They aren't living the life I lead, nor are they ridiculing it. But of course, I am as far from being a Duggar as I am from being an "AOC." /Still on Team Middle Ground.

[nst]

21 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

You do get that this a fundy snark board, right? I'm a little puzzled because you don't seem to have just joined FJ yesterday. Do you really think ANYONE on FJ wants their daughter to be like Jessa Duggar Seewald?

 

I want my future dog to be like jessa - i will name it jessa and make sure she gets pregnant by another dog really quickly. 

who wants to buy future duggar puppies...along with a puppie - you each get a gift certificate to IKEA 

 

26 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

 

And I hate to break this to you, but we all have aspects of our lives other than FJ. For example, I've worked on Capitol Hill for over 20 years. FJ is an escape from that.  No offense to Kirsten or AOC, but I don't want to talk about them, or to them, 24 hours a day.

capitol hill - are you a lobbyist in a grey suit!?  I see you as a lobbysist

I am an artist (NOW is the time I wish i could post my art !!!)  HA 

and lots more...

[singsingsing]

45 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

You do get that this a fundy snark board, right? I'm a little puzzled because you don't seem to have just joined FJ yesterday. Do you really think ANYONE on FJ wants their daughter to be like Jessa Duggar Seewald?

And I hate to break this to you, but we all have aspects of our lives other than FJ. For example, I've worked on Capitol Hill for over 20 years. FJ is an escape from that.  No offense to Kirsten or AOC, but I don't want to talk about them, or to them, 24 hours a day.

I have a degree in History and I transcribe all manner of things from politics to business to medicine to religion for a living. In my spare time I write fiction and host a monthly writers meetup, work on genealogy-related pursuits (my own and others'), keep up with current events, and pursue self-improvement. I'm single and childless by choice and am currently leaning toward remaining that way forever. I also have a Pinterest wedding board, I think babies are adorable, I cry happy tears when my friends announce engagements and pregnancy, I bake muffins about once a week, discuss what colour I want to paint my bedroom, and think about what pretty dress I'll wear on my birthday. I like having refuges from work and politics, and I'm generally not going to be referencing cute babies or muffins in a discussion about politics, or politics in a discussion about baking desserts. Weirdly enough.

[Iamtheway]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

(And just as a side note, maybe women shouldn’t be so concerned about what men think of their interests?)

I enjoyed and agreed with all of your post but THIS! This is not just a side note, this is important. We shouldn’t be concerned about what men think, or really what other women think. We should all (women and men) be able to have any interest we want (as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else). 

If Jessa, or any other fundie woman, wants to be a stay at home mum, take an interest in fashion and love Jesus with all their heart then they should totally do just that. Just don’t force the rest of us to do the same. You do you.

The difference if your daughter (or mine if I had one) chose this lifestyle is that they had a choice to do anything. If they wanted to go into science, do plumbing or be an artist, if they wanted to be single or live with their partner, male or female, without getting married, if they decided not to have kids and foster homeless cats instead, I think both you and I would support their choices. Jessa didn’t have that support and I’m pretty sure she and Ben aren’t going to give their kids that either. That’s why we have a thread discussing them and the harm they are doing to their family (and want to do to the world)  and I think that shines through even when the discussions are about how cute their kids are. And they are so cute!

1 hour ago, nst said:

I still have the table in my kitchen that my parents had in 1985....scary - It's oval - i want a long one made of granite one day. 

I have a table my grandfather’s grandfather made. It’s awesome. Fits right in with the Ikea ones.

[nickelodeon]

Amen to these well written responses. Another thought (from a non mother but someone raised around fundie culture) - in addition to offering girls a choice in how they live their lives, it’s important that we authorize their interiority: enable them to think about themselves, to identify the things they like and consider important, and to understand why and how those values were informed. This is one of the things denied to fundamentalist girls, who are instead taught to minimize the sense of self (J.O.Y., yourself last!) They then take for granted that their learned interests and skills are “naturally” occurring and thus, obviously, the best and only choice for their lives. And this occurs outside of fundie world too. Being able to contextualize desire, to ask “why do I want what I want? who benefits from my choices? who, potentially, is harmed?” is, IMO, very important!

It does make polemical arguments like “homemakers always bad, lady capitalists always good” more difficult to make tho.

[treehugger]

Why the hell is only "men's" work acceptable?  The problem is not that women do "women's" work (in quotations since work shouldn't be gendered), but that the work that is traditionally female is constantly undervalued (often by other other feminists and women as well as men, for some bizarre reason) and underpaid. I hope my daughters learn how to cook, grocery shop and care for others as well as pursuing ANY interests and careers they might have (I would expect the same if any hypothetical sons I might have). Why? Because knowing how to cook and buy groceries and clean is part of being a functional, responsible adult regardless of gender.  

And I really resent the idea that a woman's work is only valuable if it is in a high powered career.  That idea is not only sexist but classist as well.  It undervalues the important work that women do every damn day, not only as nurses and doctors and secretaries and lawyers (seriously, the world wouldn't function without people doing those valuable jobs), but also, the jobs that women do as nannies, and line cooks, and waitresses, and maids, and shopkeepers and seamstresses, you get my point.  When we devalue that work as being beneath us, we devalue the people who do that work, often strong, capable women who are feeding their families and putting roofs over their children's heads.  

[WiseGirl]

4 minutes ago, treehugger said:

but that the work that is traditionally female is constantly undervalued 

Preach! I love your response. 

Thank you, from a woman in an undervalued,  traditionally female job. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

I enjoyed and agreed with all of your post but THIS! This is not just a side note, this is important. We shouldn’t be concerned about what men think, or really what other women think. We should all (women and men) be able to have any interest we want (as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else). 

If Jessa, or any other fundie woman, wants to be a stay at home mum, take an interest in fashion and love Jesus with all their heart then they should totally do just that. Just don’t force the rest of us to do the same. You do you.

The difference if your daughter (or mine if I had one) chose this lifestyle is that they had a choice to do anything. If they wanted to go into science, do plumbing or be an artist, if they wanted to be single or live with their partner, male or female, without getting married, if they decided not to have kids and foster homeless cats instead, I think both you and I would support their choices. Jessa didn’t have that support and I’m pretty sure she and Ben aren’t going to give their kids that either. That’s why we have a thread discussing them and the harm they are doing to their family (and want to do to the world)  and I think that shines through even when the discussions are about how cute their kids are. And they are so cute!

Yes, that particular comment bugged me quite a bit. It just reeks of sexism in the worst way, which is rather ironic considering she was ranting about sexism. Combined with other comments this poster has made in the past - both about this subject and about how “mean” people are on here - I wouldn’t at all be surprised if she’s struggling with low self esteem and is desperate for approval (whether it’s the people in her life or people online.) Or she could just be a Troll. I’m not entirely sure at this point. 

1 minute ago, WiseGirl said:

Preach! I love your response. 

Thank you, from a woman in an undervalued,  traditionally female job. 

I’d like to second this on behalf of the FJ SAHM Coalition (we’d have jackets, but that would require wearing actual clothes instead of yoga pants.) Well stated @treehugger.

[Carm_88]

I want my future daughter, if I should ever have one, to be uniquely herself; whatever that means for her. I will not force her into anything, if she has no interest in it, but I will always tell her to give it a shot. If that means that she likes barbies and dresses and wants to be a nurse or a teacher or another job that is traditionally done by women; then go for it, be the best one that you can be. 

I love wearing dresses and skirts, I love reading historical and contemporary romance novels, I admire the fashions of the by gone era and know that they must have been totally awful to wear, but oh so pretty and nice to look at! I hate cooking and cleaning and all things house wise. I love fresh laundry and putting my clothes in the closet via colour. I am unique and probably not as feminine as I could or should be, but that doesn't matter. I am me. My friend who loves baking, is a teacher, loves knitting and crafting and house plants; that doesn't mean she's less of a feminist than I am. Being a feminist means that she can choose to do what she likes and I can choose to do what I like. We respect each other, we love each other, and we know that our differences don't reflect our political views. 

I don't give a flying monkey butthole what a man thinks I should be. I am going to be me and as long as that is not hurting any person, I will continue to be me. Stop policing other women and saying what we can or can't do, who we should teach our daughters to look up to. They have to find their way and all we can do is guide them, giving them an ability to think critically and be strong enough to see when they are making a bad decision. 

Being a good woman is the exact same as being a good person. Be kind, treat other people how you want them to treat you, take no shit from anyone, stand up for yourself and your beliefs, be willing to apologize when your actions or words have hurt someone, be willing to learn from your mistakes, and realize that the world does not revolve around you. Make the world the best place that you can, tomorrow is not nor will it ever be a given. Just live and stop worrying about everyone else. 

[AliceInFundyland]

Read the room. We talk about the Duggar girls here because this is their area. Your tone deafness is getting old.

Who the hell equates that with making them role models?

Once again, from the rooftops. This poster needs help beyond FJ. Good luck.

[Destiny]

Someone’s stirring again. ?

[Carm_88]

In other news, Jessa and Spurgeon seem to be playing Candy Land. 

[AliceInFundyland]

That's an appropriately secular activity teaching one to worship sugar. I approve.

[samurai_sarah]

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