JinJer 47: Sparking J-O-Y

[Glasgowghirl]

I was born a month premature in the late 80s, I was always sicker than my brother or sister when it came to the cold or the flu. When I was 12 I was diagnosed with asthma and I am entitled to a free flu vaccine, I don't get the vaccine every year, I forget some years. I'm glad when I was a baby and still not fully vaccinated that people around me were getting vaccinated. I didn't get the chicken pox vaccine and got the chicken pox as a baby and the shingles aged 12. I didn't realise until a few years ago that a chicken pox vaccine was available as it isn't one given here. 

I will fully vaccinate any future children, yes their are risks of vaccine injury but the risks of that are still better than bringing back deadly diseases and putting people with weakened immune system's at risk.

 

[JesSky03]

I hate the topic of vaccines because its so infuriating seeing all the misinformation being passed around. Its stressful enough having to make the medical decisions for your child but then you see all these people spouting off about how dangerous vaccines are and it can make a parent doubt their decision. Every time my son is due for vaccines I get a lot of anxiety leading up to the appointment wondering if I'm doing the right thing. It always dissipates after the appointment but I hate that I feel so stressed about it beforehand- I was in tears the night before my son's 2 month shots because I stupidly read some anti-vaxx comments on facebook and started wondering if I was making a huge mistake. We got the shots and he's handled them fine. We did skip the 9 month appointment when they would have done the flu shot because we were in the middle of a job/insurance change and then RSV was running rampant(still is unfortunately) so I didn't want to risk exposure at the doctor's office. I wish I could delay his 1 year appointment with all the crap still going around right now but daycare needs a physical every 6 months so we'll have to just suck it up. My son actually has a fantastic immune system and hasn't even had a cold yet (knock on wood) but mine is shit and I seem to pick up everything so I'm more worried I'll be the one who gets sick after our visit( I have had the flu shot at least). 

[AliceInFundyland]

Hello,

Friendly lifelong ovo-lacto vegetarian here. Not the most adamant. Not the strictest out there and not the strictest on FJ.

I do avoid gelatin. I would not avoid a life-saving shot that used it. I also swallow gelcaps if that's what there. I'll look for alternates. I always do. At the end of the day I do put people first. I tend to like animals more. I usually enjoy their company more. And I do advocate strongly that we do not use them when we do not need to. (Nor am I certified expert on EVERY way they get abused. I just do my best to be educated and aware)

I have never met a vegan that denied vaccination for that reason.

I suppose it's possible. I feel like the anti-vaxxers are even more around the bend than the wackiest of vegans.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I know tatoo artist Kat Von D sparked controversery a few months ago when she announced she wouldn't be vaccinating her unborn child. She is a staunch vegan but I don't  if she is doing it for those reasons. I saw a vegan mother on Dr. Phil a few years back who wouldn't vaccinate her daughter due to not wanting animal products in her body. However, I think they are outliers and that many vegans do vaccinate. 

[theotherelise]

The hep B vax came out when I was in maybe 5th grade and it was a three shot vax back then (I think it's two now). For some reason, my private Christian elementary school offered parents the chance to sign us up to get the shots at school. So instead of going to a school holiday recital practice, a bunch of us across grades were told to go to an empty classroom. That's when we all found out we were getting shots. Kids were flipping out. I mean, thanks mom for getting me vaccinated from hep B, but maybe don't throw a surprise shot at me in the middle of a school day?

[nolongerIFBx]

I know someone whose child has Celiac. The child hadn't contracted chicken pox so when the vaccine became available she wanted them vaccinated. She checked the ingredients of the initial vaccine and the child did not have any ill effects upon vaccination. However, she did not know that the clinic changed sources and when the child was given the booster, the vaccine contained gluten. The child spent months on end struggling to urinate because, IIRC, their body turned the gluten into gelatinous protein that was hard to eliminate. There was not option except to let the gluten run its course. Not anti-vax, but there can be side effects that you never imagined.

[mpheels]

Fun personal vaccine facts...

My employer (Big Hospital) requires all staff to get the flu shot each year. They give them on campus for free in October, and you get a sticker for your ID badge so everyone can see who is compliant. If you have a legitimate reason to not get one, you can get a waiver, but have to wear a mask at all times when in patient care areas. No shot and no waiver by Thanksgiving? They will hold your paycheck and cut off computer access until you get it done.

i was a volunteer subject in the phase II trial* for a herpes vaccine several years ago. Researchers can’t legally/ethically infect subjects with herpes, so they had to do a huge double blind, randomized control trial and follow subjects for three years to see if the rate of herpes infection was different for the treatment and control groups. I had a series of shots over several months, then went in to the lab every three months to give blood and urine samples, plus fill out a survey about potential exposures. At the end of the trial, I learned that the herpes vaccine didn’t work, plus I was in the control group anyway, so I actually had a bonus Hep B series.

*phase II trials occur after they know the drug is biologically plausible (phase 0) and safe for humans (phase I). Although the safe for humans part fails sometimes...

[Alice in Fundieland]

This was posted today in an online discussion group for The Office. It made me laugh.

@nolongerIFBx I never thought about vaccines containing gluten. I have family members with celiac disease, I’m off to ask if they know about that possibility. Thank you. 

[Coconut Flan]

Yes, do look into it.  I wasn't fully onboard with the story above about gluten.  It just didn't fit with what I know.  Anyway, a quick google search says vaccines don't contain gluten.  You might want to look into it more than quickly.  

[SilverBeach]

On 2/3/2019 at 6:31 PM, Taylurker said:

If vaccines were 100% safe,

Nothing is 100% anything except death and taxes. Vaccines have been proven to be a great benefit to public health. I know people of my generation who were afflicted with polio. There are not valid arguments against vaccines for the population at large, and medical exceptions can be managed at such. Those with valid medical exceptions are helped by the herd immunity of those who can get vaccinated getting vaccinated. I think non-vaxxers want everyone else to get vaccinated so their children will be protected that way. It really burns my toast. Folks really need to stop believing woo bullshit.

6 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

Every time my son is due for vaccines I get a lot of anxiety leading up to the appointment wondering if I'm doing the right thing.

Don't torment yourself this way. You are definitely doing the right thing by following the advice of your pediatrician. Maybe it will help to stop reading all the anti-vax nonsense.

[Alice in Fundieland]

42 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Yes, do look into it.  I wasn't fully onboard with the story above about gluten.  It just didn't fit with what I know.  Anyway, a quick google search says vaccines don't contain gluten.  You might want to look into it more than quickly.  

Thanks, everything I’ve found has indicated that vaccines do not contain gluten and are perfectly safe for those with celiac disease. I’d also never heard of someone with celiac ingesting gluten and having difficulty urinating and I can’t find anything (from reputable sources or otherwise) to support that.

[WiseGirl]

1 hour ago, Alice in Fundieland said:

I’d also never heard of someone with celiac ingesting gluten and having difficulty urinating and I can’t find anything (from reputable sources or otherwise) to support that.

Celiac here and I've never heard of this.  Don't get me wrong, unpleasant things can happen from ingesting gluten, I've never heard of this in any of the forums/groups I'm in.

Also as the memes say about vaccines, go to the cemeteries and see all the little ones that passed away pre vaccines from illnesses that we can now avoid.  If you get your child vaccinated that is.

[Lizzybet]

7 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I have never met a vegan that denied vaccination for that reason.

I suppose it's possible. I feel like the anti-vaxxers are even more around the bend than the wackiest of vegans.

Fairly wacky vegan here. I’ve had my children vaccinated, and I get the flu shot as soon as it’s available each year.

I also have rescue cats of my own and fosters, and they all eat animal flesh, because they must in order to live and be healthy.

Ta-da!

[AliceInFundyland]

2 minutes ago, Lizzybet said:

Fairly wacky vegan here. I’ve had my children vaccinated, and I get the flu shot as soon as it’s available each year.

I also have rescue cats of my own and fosters, and they all eat animal flesh, because they must in order to live and be healthy.

Ta-da!

Now those people tick me off. Feeding cats and dogs veg diets. Dingbats.No. Just no. Met them. Have had words. No.  We used to feed our gerbil bugs too, once we learned he liked them.  Crunched them like a typewriter.

[PennySycamore]

There was a great article in the late, lamented Vegetarian Times several years ago by a vet tech about nutrition for dogs and cats.  It was basically NO, don't feed your cats and dogs a vegetarian diet and went on the say that cats are obligate carnivores so if you can't abide feeding your cat meat, don't have a cat.  It's not fair to them.  

Jackson Galaxy and Colleen Patrick-Goudreau are both vegan cat guardians and both believe that you MUST feed your cats meat.  

[PainfullyAware]

I somehow missed a booster shot as a kid and got mumps in my early 20s (I had been vaccinated as a little kid)! My face got incredibly swollen and the throat pain was horrendous. I felt awful for potentially infecting others. Turns out we were having a mumps outbreak in our area thanks to anti vaxxers and, I guess, parents who forgot/weren't told to get kids their 2nd dose of the vaccine. My Mom swears no one told her I needed a booster.

According to the Canadian govt:

"Mumps vaccine effectiveness has been estimated at 62% to 91% for 1 dose and 76% to 95% for 2 doses.

Many individuals in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s (born between 1970 and 1992) have only received one dose of MMR vaccine. A second dose is required for full protection."

A second dose is now routine but many people aren't aware if they only had one.

Nothing annoys me more then the toxic individualism behind anti vaxxers (with no good reason). We are all in the same boat, folks! What you do affects your neighbors, whether it's polluting the air or spreading viruses because you refuse or forget vaccines.

[adidas]

5 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Yes, do look into it.  I wasn't fully onboard with the story above about gluten.  It just didn't fit with what I know.  Anyway, a quick google search says vaccines don't contain gluten.  You might want to look into it more than quickly.  

I have never heard of vaccines containing gluten, but even if they did it shouldn’t be a problem. When people with celiac disease EAT gluten, their body’s immune response attacks the small intestine by destroying the villi. This is a digestive issue and it means that nutrient absorption is impacted negatively. Nothing should affect urination, especially if it is objected intramuscularly (ie not linked to digesting gluten).

Note: not an expert, just someone who lives in a strictly compliant celiac household. All vaxed with no problems.

Adding: I searched too. There is definitely no gluten in vaccines. 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/vaxopedia.org/2017/10/14/which-vaccines-are-gluten-free/amp/

Https://www.glutenfreeliving.com/gluten-free/resources-support/do-travel-vaccinations-contain-gluten/

[HurricaneBells]

If i try and put this coherently together, I will stuff it so bullet points it is!

• My father almost died from polio as a 4 year old. Vaccinations are the done thing in my family
• Not anti vax at all, child is vaccinated as i was i, his dad, our families, friends etc. no known issues
• If our kids are vaccinated and "safe", why do anti vaxxers think we continue to argue about this? Consider why we still care and feel so passionate about it. Not only do we not want those who cannot be immunised to die and these diseases to die out, we actually dont want your kid to die either. Well i dont but some people are assholes when it comes to this topic (not here just in general)
• If we find a cure for cancer (always hoping) and there are possibly significant (real or perceived) but rare side effects, wouldn't we still encourage people to vaccinate against and eradicate cancer? For the poster who didnt like the analogy of airbags....
• I dont doubt for a second that you think you are doing the right thing by your child (exceptions, always). Its why I always try not to be mean*
• If you are unsure and choose to vaccinate in stages (which i didnt know, good to learn) i do not consider you anti vax and hey whatever makes you comfortable
• We got vaccinated at school once we were of age (Australia). Do they do this in other countries?
• I wish that more people would educate themselves properly instead of buying into the propaganda they think they're avoiding. Using the actual scientific evidence not some shit you saw on a anti vax site or social media. Use your bloody head.
• You hope everyone is vaccinated without issue but as a wise OP above said, only taxes and death are certain. The numbers of incidents are incomparable even taking into account the where's of the world. Vaccines save millions of lives and have for longer than a lot of us have been alive.
• i will listen to an anti vaxxer but it means nothing unless you have the education and literal experience to back it. Until then i will listen to the doctors and scientists, do my research and act accordingly.

*I try (and fail a lot) not to judge anti vax which is why i normally stay quiet about this but i really struggle with this topic because i am frustrated that people wont educate themselves (applies to any topic really). We developed countries have a significant learning and developmental advantage over third world countries where it remains prevalent and we waste it. Where is the critical thinking? 

[PumaLover]

I have some anti vaxxer friends on my FB and I just can't engage with them. One friend posted a bunch of links the other night showing just how many people have died from the measles vaccine. Another has five kids that she homeschools, but they travel all around between California and Oregon, including Disneyland regularly!!!1!111! It just drives me crazy.

The only vaccine I won't be giving my daughter is Gardasil because she can choose to have it as a young adult if she wishes. We had a family friend have a very rare and severe reaction to it which I'm sure is one in a million. That vaccine is still very new to me and came about after I was an adult. If anyone has good links for pros or cons for it please feel free to share them. I am always happy to learn new information.

Something I've wondered for years, why is there not a cold vaccine? I know the flu shot is not 100% (or even 50%ish?) effective but it's a virus like the cold, right? I'm in no way a degreed medical professional so I'd love some input if anyone has it!

[SorenaJ]

I believe there is no cold vaccine because there is a lot of different viruses causing the cold, but only one causing the flu. 

[mango_fandango]

Yeah there are something like 200+ cold viruses, as opposed to one flu virus.

[adidas]

I think there are 4 different types of influenza virus? I remember my dr saying something about it when he jabbed me.

[Melissa1977]

Just look the number of kids who got ill, disabled or dead because the polio the year before the vax was discovered and the year after that. Just a year was enough to (almost) make polio dissapear and it took just a few years vaccinating to make it dissapear completely. It was around 1960, it's recent story, hospital statistics are reliable and at that moment there weren't other major changes (except the vax) that can explain why polio was over. 

[nolongerIFBx]

14 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Yes, do look into it.  I wasn't fully onboard with the story above about gluten.  It just didn't fit with what I know.  Anyway, a quick google search says vaccines don't contain gluten.  You might want to look into it more than quickly.  

At the time I did find some info by Googling it (though you can't believe everything you read on the internet!). The doctor told the mom that was the issue. If it wasn't gluten in the vaccine the doctor was mistaken and perhaps it was something else in the 2nd vaccine that caused a long-term reaction.

[theotherelise]

There are a bunch of different strains of flu, that's why each season the people making the vaccine have to put together an educated guess of what 3-4 will be big that year: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/vaccine-selection.htm

One of the problems last year in the US was that the vaccine was not super effective against the most virulent strains: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season-2017-2018.htm. "Protection by virus type and subtype was: 25% against A(H3N2), 65% against A(H1N1) and 49% against influenza B viruses" The H3N2 strain was predominant and severe last year. The influenza strains have rapidly changing genomes, so that's why we have to get a new vaccine each year. 

It seems like, from my quick research, the big barrier to a rhinovirus (cause of 50% of common colds) vaccine is that there are so many different presentations of the surface proteins. Developing a vaccine that applies to the array of surface proteins is difficult. That's also why our immune systems don't develop an acquired immune response to rhinovirus. But, it seems like maybe that's why you might have temporary immunity - i.e. you get a cold and then your roommate gets it from you, but you don't get it again from the roommate. you could still get a different cold from a coworker a couple weeks later though.

Anyway, if we're using game theory on where to put our research dollars, I think there are probably oodles of places we'd rather researchers focus than on cold vaccines.