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Georgiana

JinJer 47: Sparking J-O-Y

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Tired
clueliss
4 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@Pecansforeveryone,  I don't know if you saw the episode, but when Josie was in the NICU in Little Rock, the Duggars went to  a service at a black church.  They were definitely uncomfortable.  The service was much livelier than what they were used to with clapping and such.  The fact that they were surrounded by black folks may have been part of it as well.  

Except Josh who I seem to recall really enjoying that service.  

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Waffle Time
allthegoodnamesrgone
On 3/14/2019 at 6:45 PM, Bobology said:

Aw man, I think I'm going to change my 'location' to this. It is just too good to pass up. @allthegoodnamesrgone,  do you want credit or a fake tm symbol?

fake tm.  😆

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nastyhobbitses
On 3/12/2019 at 5:21 PM, CaricatureQualities said:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/american-idol-rock-n-roll-star-cade-foehner-reveals-battle-hes-facing-christian-hollywood.html

Here is an article about Cade Foehner revealing he is a Christian minister and the "battle" of being a Christian evangelist in hollywood.

So he is a persecuted Christian white male just like Jeremy! Only he is fighting for the glory of Christ with rock-n-roll.

But Cade, you're living in a place full of rich crusty white guys who objectify and subjugate scores of women who have been groomed to seek their approval at all costs in order to gain status and success. You should feel right at home. 

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StraightOuttaArkansas
On 3/14/2019 at 11:27 PM, nickelodeon said:

I don’t think Jeremy has the ability/interest in being as “””chill””” and “”real””” as the Hillsong set. I cannot see him saying, for instance, the kind of lines that Bieber spouted in that one creepy Vogue story about not considering himself religious but simply having a personal relationship with Jesus. He’s waaay too committed to the institution of The Church to move in on Hillsong’s turf.

re: movies, I am very curious whether JinJer will be seeing Jeremy’s brother’s project.

I get that feeling off Jermey (and most of the Duggars) too. It makes it almost funny that he is so anti-Catholic. I honestly think if his parents hadn't changed he would be a hardcore Catholic, like Rosary every day kind.

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Meh
backyard sylph
4 hours ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

I get that feeling off Jermey (and most of the Duggars) too. It makes it almost funny that he is so anti-Catholic. I honestly think if his parents hadn't changed he would be a hardcore Catholic, like Rosary every day kind.

That's an interesting thought which reminded me of my mother's path. Her family was from Italy, and they were culturally Catholic, my brothers went to Catholic school, but we lived in a rural area when I started school. Drifting occurred. When it was time for me to be confirmed I told my mom I didn't need an intercessor. I was kind of a jerk about it. But she let it go. Then she got into charismatic Catholicism a couple years later, nuns with guitars, and I quite liked that. 

However, we went from there to the genesis of Kansas City Fellowship, and then they connected up with the Vineyard, and I was checking out when she died, because they thought I was a cause of her cancer.

Anyway. Where was I? I could never really be a part of the Church again, because we are severely separated by our ideas on embryos and letting people be themselves, and also God is essentially a physics analogy for me; it feels like mysticism but has math in it, but I quite like all the Catholics I know personally, and they certainly do believe in Jesus and salvation and so forth. 

So if I were stuck in an elevator with Jeremy, which is who I'd choose per some long ago conversation because I bet he smells really good, I would want to nail down his belief that Jesus has anything to do with these strict team divisions and why, and I'd work to get him to express it in his own words, not the words of some hundred year-old book he read. Then we could talk about Paul if we were still in there. I think he's Paulian, which is no good in my book.

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Happy
PennySycamore

@backyard sylph, fuck the Kansas City Fellowship and the Vineyard!   How incredibly shitty of them to think that you caused your mom's cancer.

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Meh
backyard sylph

@PennySycamore it was a very strange experience, looking back it seems like I was on an alien planet. Just wish now and then I could have gotten Mom off of it. But it's been nearly 30 years now. 

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nickelodeon

An example of the kind of “churchiness” that sets JinJer apart from Hillsongers: they’re currently reading biographies of prominent 18th/19th century Evangelicals. (Read: he’s reading the bio of a theologian and she’s taking part in that time honored Vision Forum trophy wife tradition, reading the biography of the wife of a theologian. Because apparently womenfolk’s inability to grasp theology requires them to approach it filtered through two other people’s perspectives. But ANYWAY.)

While Hillsong doctrinally doesn’t register as fundie to me, the way it uses celebrity to promote itself feels very culty. Scientologish.

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StraightOuttaArkansas

@backyard sylph First of all, how horrible that that church said that about your mom's cancer. I am so sorry. That is just absolutely horrible and should never have been said to you or even put out in the universe. I really am sorry. 

Also I just wanted to say it is funny you bring up physics. My husband is a theoretical physicist and was a lapsed Catholic until he met me. I was Protestant and we got to talking about it and started going to Mass and he jumped back in and I converted. I feel like it is the right fit for me (despite being pro-choice and waiting/hoping for an annulment and very much disagreeing with several things in the church). It is miles better than SBC though, that nearly wrecked the faith I had left. Not the point I was making though. I just wanted to say my husband is always kind of waiting for something in his work to negate any faith he has and never seems to find it. He said he does seem to be one of few religious scientist (who actually does real science, not proving creationism or something), but was pleasantly surprised at a conference a few months ago that he was not the only one. He also enjoyed his Muslim colleague (who recently took another position) as a sort of "partner" or "encouragement" in being a normal scientist, but still sticking to your faith. He gave up coffee for Lent again this year and I think he is having a harder time with it than last year with his colleague having been an example to him during Ramadan (which I know is way more than just giving something up). Anyway, all that to say, our family does science and religion, we don't get the feeling they have to be mutually exclusive, but we certainly don't want anyone else to feel that we think they should have to believe that too and try to make sure we are clear about that.

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AtlanticTug

Jeremy's anti-Catholicism also means that he probably will deliberately avoid the entire body of theology that was published by Catholic thinkers through the ages. For all the (many) faults of the church, there has always been a great emphasis on learning and philosophy, particularly by orders like the Jesuits.

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Meh
backyard sylph
16 hours ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

@backyard sylph First of all, how horrible that that church said that about your mom's cancer. I am so sorry. That is just absolutely horrible and should never have been said to you or even put out in the universe. I really am sorry. 

Also I just wanted to say it is funny you bring up physics. My husband is a theoretical physicist and was a lapsed Catholic until he met me. I was Protestant and we got to talking about it and started going to Mass and he jumped back in and I converted. I feel like it is the right fit for me (despite being pro-choice and waiting/hoping for an annulment and very much disagreeing with several things in the church). It is miles better than SBC though, that nearly wrecked the faith I had left. Not the point I was making though. I just wanted to say my husband is always kind of waiting for something in his work to negate any faith he has and never seems to find it. He said he does seem to be one of few religious scientist (who actually does real science, not proving creationism or something), but was pleasantly surprised at a conference a few months ago that he was not the only one. He also enjoyed his Muslim colleague (who recently took another position) as a sort of "partner" or "encouragement" in being a normal scientist, but still sticking to your faith. He gave up coffee for Lent again this year and I think he is having a harder time with it than last year with his colleague having been an example to him during Ramadan (which I know is way more than just giving something up). Anyway, all that to say, our family does science and religion, we don't get the feeling they have to be mutually exclusive, but we certainly don't want anyone else to feel that we think they should have to believe that too and try to make sure we are clear about that.

Thanks for taking the time to tell me about yourself and your husband. It's nice. 

I have always enjoyed learning about all the various religious traditions, how they develop, and the purposes they serve in different eras. I've sometimes been accused of being sort of Spock-like about it all, but if so, well, that suits me. Humanity interests me, and I think it's mostly good. There just seem to always be some people who need both to follow rigid rules, and to attempt forcing them on everyone else. 

It seems like their ability to do so waxes and wanes throughout history. I think that this latest surge is actually a sign they're waning again, and that scares them. But people will continue to be more free to explore their individual faith without subverting their intellect or good will toward others. 

Edited by backyard sylph
failing keyboard

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StraightOuttaArkansas
7 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

snip

But people will continue to be more free to explore their individual faith without subverting their intellect or good will toward others. 

I wish I could like this bit a million times!

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JordynDarby5
10 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

Thanks for taking the time to tell me about yourself and your husband. It's nice. 

I have always enjoyed learning about all the various religious traditions, how they develop, and the purposes they serve in different eras. I've sometimes been accused of being sort of Spock-like about it all, but if so, well, that suits me. Humanity interests me, and I think it's mostly good. There just seem to always be some people who need both to follow rigid rules, and to attempt forcing them on everyone else. 

It seems like their ability to do so waxes and wanes throughout history. I think that this latest surge is actually a sign they're waning again, and that scares them. But people will continue to be more free to explore their individual faith without subverting their intellect or good will toward others. 

So have I. I think I just love learning and reading about other people. Different religions, cultures, backgrounds, past and present. I've been asked a lot if I'm still a Christian, if I still belief in Jesus. I've also been asked that after going on about the planets, the moons, solar system and beyond. Which drives me crazy. One I don't know what reading about Saturn or Wicca makes me suddenly no longer Christian. The world is a cool place! There's so many cool places the Rocky Mountains, the Alps, Great Barrier Reef, Hawaii, Australia. Hindi is so cool! So is Wicca! And Judaism. And Muslim. And well so far most religions. Art from drawings on caves to the Masters to beautiful pottery work. To music to so much more. If you belief God created everything how does that not excite you and make you want to learn more about the universe He created? Explore it? How are you not fascinated by poetry or literature? Plays, movies, TV shows, musicals? Ballet and other dancing. The different animals in the world. Venus with all its heat, volcanos and no moons? Mars! Jupiter! Saturn with its pretty rings and Titan! Pluto which will always be planet. There are planets orbiting two suns! Pulsars for some reason! All the great stuff humans have built. The Pyramids! The Colosseum! Cities built into walls! Pisa! The Golden Gate Bridge! Temples! Anasazi who built their city at Mesa Verde. Mayan temples! The many different beautiful cities and the really cool rural places. Food! The hundreds of millions of awesome food and desserts. The more I see and read the more I want to see more. I pray I'll get healthy again and be able to explore more of the world.

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StraightOuttaArkansas

@JordynDarby5 Yes! I felt all these things growing up in Arkansas (where it feels like no one ever gets to leave). I jumped on the first opportunity to leave and never went back. There is so much in our world and I want to know and see as much as possible. This of course led to issues with my father. I grew up SBC and they are seriously afraid of evening seeing anything "foreign" (e.g. not approved by them, domestic or international; culture, language, food, film, and so on). I always loved languages, was always interested in other cultures and religions, loved reading everything, and wanted an education. I never understood why they felt like you could not even be near things they deemed bad, as if by being near it, it would destroy your faith? I was thought this meant the faith of that person was not strong then. Isn't that the point? To challenge your faith so it grows stronger? The best one is long after I moved before I cut contact to him, I was reading the Da Vinci Code for the first time (just as the movie was coming out, I think it was) and my father lost his mind and told me I would go to hell....for reading a book. I mean I guess he was right? I converted and I credit that book with making curious enough to start looking things up. It did not however rock my faith in anyway and I actually really liked it as a story (the movie was awful though). I feel really sorry for my father and people like him (so a lot of the people I grew up around). They are missing out on so much being afraid to explore. I cannot imagine that God (even their interpretation) would have put such an amazing universe around us if we were not supposed to figure it out, explore it, learn about it, and love and enjoy it and each other (that was jrod levels of run on right there). I really really really hope you are able to get healthy enough again to have those experiences you wish for! *hugs*

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pippi

Here is a post about a single two letter word...

So, I watched the show last night. If anyone else did, did you catch the part where Jinger was talking to those friends of Jeremy's and said "if I have another kid" (as opposed to "when I have another kid")? 

I know that 1) I'm quibbling over semantics, 2) "If" could easily just mean "If the lord lets us," and 3) In the TH soon after they had the usual "that could be us with a few kids soon yadda yadda yadda" (Although honestly a women could be 65 and TLC would still be having her give a speech about baby fever and the next blessing). 

BUT I was surprised all the same, because women in this fold always seem to lean more toward "when" in terms of more kids. I've always hoped/thought that they would likely not have a huge family and be able to care for their children with more attention and resources. This episode reinforced that possibility to me. Disclaimer: I know their beliefs are still horrible with prettier packaging, I know Jeremy is a tool, and I don't really see anyone in the first generation breaking away at this point. Nevertheless, I think Jinger continues to have more chance at a semi-normal existence than many of her sisters. 

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Meh
backyard sylph

Whatever else we might say about him, no way he wants a jillion kids, and I don't get the impression she does either, despite her party lines.

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AtlanticTug

There is just no way to maintain their current lifestyle if they quickly add 3, 4, 5 kids to the pack. Travel will become near impossible and the associated costs will shoot up. It's one thing for Jeremy to get paid to go to churches or conferences and sometimes Jinger's tab is picked up but I am not aware of any such arrangement which would also pay for 5 children's flights, hotel rooms, meals, etc. 

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Anna Bolinas

I feel like JinJer will either a) keep having kids until Jeremy gets a Jeremy Jr. or b) stop after three because I don't think Jeremy wants to have tons of little kids running everywhere and getting in the way of his Very Important Reading, plus I feel like Jinger would be fine with having fewer kids. She's not as physically close to the rest of the DuggarBorg, so maybe she wouldn't have to hear as much kvetching from JB and Michelle.

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TheMustardCardigan

Jinger and Jeremy are one of the most annoying Duggar couples but I do agree they will probably end up with the smallest number of children. I don't see them wanting to drag umpteen littles through a hotel lobby or pay for 10 separate airplane tickets every time Jeremy wants to go to a conference. 

I'm also getting the feeling that Jill and Wreck will end up with the second smallest number children of all the currently married couples. For them I see it as more inspired by struggle (their life seems kind of gloomy) and giving birth doesn't seem easy for Jill. We still don't even really know what the deal was with Sam.

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Pecansforeveryone

I think having a son is very important to Jeremy. That might push them into having 4 children if Jinger has 3 girls in a row. Otherwise yeah, I see them stopping at 3 children. Plus, Jeremy is one of only 3 himself. They might face some flak from JB and Michelle but I doubt they will from Jeremy's parents. Same thing with Jill and Derrick. Derrick is one of only two siblings himself. I know Cathy Dillard really wants a grandaughter, but I doubt that she's obsessed with having double digit grandchildren. 

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TheOneAndOnly

Anyone see this video of the adorable Felicity? In it her parents take her to a place to learn about music and sounds. Jinger seems more empty-headed than I think I've ever seen her, and at about 3:50 or so Jeremy points out that the baby was dancing and Jinger seems to sort of die inside for a second or two. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vA6Ra9cJw

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pippi

Yeah, I definitely don't think they'll have a brood. I was just surprised that the wording implied even the (vaguest) possibility of an only child (even though I don't think that's likely, either...at the very least Jeremy seems like he'd want a son). Unusual on that show, anyhow! 

 

Jeremy makes me roll my eyes, but for whatever reason, I don't mind Jinger so much, with the obvious disclaimer about awful beliefs. Maybe it's residual hope from years past, maybe it's the fact that she seems a little more thoughtful and articulate than some siblings...I dunno 🤷‍♀️. I realize it's not especially rational. 

 

Def agree with all who've commented that their lifestyle would not be sustainable with a crowd of kids! I think they are both aware enough to realize that, especially after Jinger's childhood. I think they are quite content enjoying the coffee shops and travel and their cheerful baby girl for the time being.

@TheMustardCardigan I agree with that guess about the Dillards. Her pregnancies seemed really difficult and potentially dangerous. And if they are living on a student stipend right now, having a baby isn't exactly cheap, even without complications. 

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