JinJer 47: Sparking J-O-Y

[SilverBeach]

10 hours ago, MarbleRainbow said:

He thought it would spark more conversations if people had to ask what "Antioch Community" was. ?

Sounds cult-like to me.

[welshdoll]

I'm a Presbyterian, although I have attended a lot of different denominations (including Snake Handling tent shows as a demonstration of the Holy Spirit.) Our church is quite small, so during Communion, we walk up to our octagonal pulpit where ushers hold out a plate full of bread pieces, then we dunk our bread piece in a chalice containing grape juice. On Easter, Christmas Eve, and other big days that bring the twice-yearly folks, the ushers pass the bread and the tiny plastic cups o'grape juice. If I am attending a Catholic service, I don't take communion, so I couldn't speak to whether our local Catholic Churches  use wine or grape juice or kool-aid. (Yes, some of the Baptist churches around here literally drink the Kool-Aid. They see the humor in that, too.)

[nausicaa]

10 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I’m honestly disgusted by that hashtag. It’s like spitting on everyone who’s gone through a painful divorce. It’s also laughable when you’ve been married a grand total of two years. It also kind of implies that their marriage is at risk of ending and they’re having to actively attempt to keep it together.

And I mean, like, that’s how you want to define your marriage? By the fact that you’re not divorced? Really?

It's such a ridiculous hashtag. And God they are so damn smug. They've been married all of two years and three months. Whoopdedoo. If you make it thirty years and want to preach to me, fine. But if you're still technically newlyweds, why don't you take a seat next to the parents of newborns who suddenly know everything about every stage of parenting. 

Also, in the US, the average length of a marriage that ends in a divorce is seven years. They ain't beating shit yet.

(We won't even get into the fact that marrying older and both partners having college educations are factors that have shown to lower American divorce rates. Arkansas also has the highest divorce rate of any state and red states generally have higher rates than blue states.)

 

10 hours ago, Adrienne83 said:

Ah. Thank you. ? It's obviously not for me, since I'm divorced. I'm sure that makes me evil to them, since my husband decided he didn't want a wife and family anymore and surprised me with it. I'm sure whatever they're spreading will prevent that from happening to anyone else. ?

I'm sorry that happened to you and this is yet another reason I despise that hashtag. It ignores situations like these where one partner had zero say in the marriage ending (as well as situations where a divorce needed to happen to protect a spouse or children from violence or abuse). It demonstrates how insular and naive they are, and how they really believe that they are immune from anything really bad that is out of their control happening to them and that anyone who did experience an unpleasant reversal in life somehow brought it on themselves by not praying hard enough or having enough blog-inspired date nights.

Which is not how Christianity, or life, works. 

[PennySycamore]

@welshdoll, Catholics always use wine unless the priest is a recovering alcoholic.  Then they may use grape juice.  

[CarrotCake]

Is it true though, that 50% of marriages end in divorce? I always thought it was 1/3 but maybe it’s different between countries since people in the US get married faster.

[Ali]

2 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

Is it true though, that 50% of marriages end in divorce? I always thought it was 1/3 but maybe it’s different between countries since people in the US get married faster.

No, it is not true that 50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Someone misinterpreted raw data years ago and the myth has not died. The rate of divorce is much higher after the first marriage.

Quote

While percentage differs slightly (depending on the source), 60 to 67 percent of second marriages fail, and 70 to 73 percent of third marriages end on the rocks.

https://www.divorcesource.com/ds/main/u-s-divorce-rates-and-statistics-1037.shtml

[nastyhobbitses]

How low is the bar for a healthy marriage in your community that "yay we aren't thinking about getting divorced" is a sentiment you express two years into your marriage?

Honestly, it's so similar to how they talk about abortion. "Let me post this gigantic screed on Instagram about how great I am for not aborting my obviously wanted child". Girl, you wanted this kid and you live in a cult that regards you as nothing but a baby vending machine, it's pretty fucking obvious you weren't going to get an abortion.

Do fundies seriously believe that all we heathen folk do all day is mosey on down to the abortion clinic to stab our full-term babies in the face and then head on over to the courthouse to divorce our spouses we kissed before marriage?

[lumpentheologie]

I know the vaccine talk was a while back, but I've just caught up and since I didn't see anyone else mention it, I wanted to say that the HPV vaccine is available in the US even if you're above the recommended age, you just have to pay for it out of pocket. I was just barely above the cutoff when it came out and payed about $400 to get the three shots. My doctor was 46 and said she did the same thing. 

If you've already had sex your likelihood of having already been exposed to the strains the vaccines protects against is of course higher, but there are tons of different kinds of HPV and even though you have likely been exposed to some, there's still a chance you haven't been exposed to these ones. 

And parents, please get your kids this vaccine instead of waiting for them to decide as adults. Young adults living on their own for the first time have a lot to deal with and getting a vaccine is probably not going to be a top priority. Also the vaccine is most effective if it's given before sexual activity begins, and you really don't know when that's going to be.  Your kid probably isn't going to tell you they want to start having sex and so they need the vaccine. And even if they want to wait they should be protected incase of sexual assault, which is incredibly common, and something that young people (and older people) often have a hard time even understanding when it's happened to them. My first time having PIV sex wasn't consensual but at the time I thought it couldn't be assault because I was already naked and fooling around with the guy (my boyfriend at the time). This happens a fair bit. 

[Audrey2]

On 2/14/2019 at 8:43 PM, MarbleRainbow said:

At my last church the pastor really didn't want "church" listed on the signage or t-shirts they had made. He thought it would spark more conversations if people had to ask what "Antioch Community" was. ? Yeah, if there's a group of people all wearing the same shirt that says Antioch Community doing some kind of service project, it's pretty likely people can figure out it's a church. It just bothered me for some reason that he didn't want "Church" to be listed - people are just going to read that as trying to hide something or being coy. It doesn't engage people, they just aren't going to ask. 

This bothers me. It bothers me even more when a church of a denomination just chooses to call itself a  name which does not include the denomination. If I am looking for a certain type of church, or looking to avoid a certain type of church, I want to know up front what I'm dealing with. Using this poster's example, I would rather know that it's Antioch Baptist Church then just see Antioch or Antioch Community.

On 2/14/2019 at 6:52 PM, SportsgalAnnie said:

Methodist

Grape juice and a loaf of bread

Also, in four of the five Methodist congregations I've been involved with, there is a loaf of bread on the altar. During communion, the pastor breaks the bread as they are saying the words for communion. The congregation then comes forward and are given a piece of bread torn from the loaf the pastor broke. Then, congregants dip the bread in the cup.

I had the privilege of visiting a Lutheran (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) that used wine, but also had grape juice for people who weren't comfortable with the wine.

[seraaa]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 3:17 AM, FaithAndReason said:

My experience with “nondenominational” churches is that the term is code for baptist. (Also Bible churches). Most shy away from calling themselves baptist and rely on showy concerts and performances as forms of worship to draw people in while selling themselves as hipsters. People really should look deep into the churches’ websites and find out what their actual beliefs are—looking beyond “we welcome everyone!” In my area you will find that they welcome everyone as long as everyone eventually follows their beliefs—men lead, women follow, women are meant to be subservient, with cherry-picked Bible verse quotes listed as justification.  But most people don’t look far enough into the actual theology a church follows. They like the rock concert style and a sermon that makes them feel good & righteous without too much reflection on the suffering of others and helping those in need. I know not everyone will have this experience with non-denoms, so don’t attack me. This is my experience. 

If they do have a common set of beliefs, why call themselves 'non-denominational'? 

Does 'non-denominational' mean the church has its own theological interpretation, or that it isn't a member of a denominal association, or that it welcomes people with varying beliefs?

Or all of the above?

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:41 PM, Satan'sFortress said:

I was Roman Catholic for about 20 years---church every Sunday + holy days.  I never once went to a church that served wine or grape juice.  The priest drank the wine & the rest of us just got  the bread. It is interesting to me . . . this was a church in Massachusetts and one in Texas, plus any others that we went to on vacation.  This would have been late 60s through the late 80s.  Is that untypical? Just curious.

I went to church in 90s and early-to-mid 2000s, and we were given both the bread and wine. According to my dad, giving both was not customary until after Vatican II, so it could be that your church just preferred the old tradition?

[PennySycamore]

@seraaa, you're right about communion under both species starting for the laity post Vatican II.  It's my understanding, though, that the Church was merely returning to earlier practices.  IIRC, they were just undoing some of the "reforms" of the Counter-Reformation.  In earlier centuries, the altar faced the people and was not facing the back wall.  The laity also received both the bread and wine in the Eucharist.  The congregants were mere spectators and not fully participants in the Mass.  The reforms of Vatican II hoped to change all that.  Some Catholics could not understand why the changes were for the good and how they might make the Mass more meaningful.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

OK guys, I found a church for Jeremy!!!

Spoiler

 

[formergothardite]

19 hours ago, seraaa said:

If they do have a common set of beliefs, why call themselves 'non-denominational'? 

My opinion, it is because they think putting their beliefs out there will turn off potential members. Non-denominational can make it easier for them to bring in people and love bomb them before they figure out what the church actually stands for. BElevation Church which is huge in this area, they have campuses everywhere is actually a southern baptist church, but you aren't going to see that when just looking at their church website or from their name. 

https://elevationchurch.org/

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

Re: strange church names. I just remembered a new church near my grandparents house (I saw it for the first time anyway). It is called "That.Church" ...uhm....ok then. They seem to have a couple of churches in AR and from the FB page look a bit "mega-churchy-wannabe" and very "hip". Not that there is anything wrong with hip churches, just that those seem to come with a certain brand of message. They say they are non-denom. The logo is also strange. A circle with a triangle pointing Southwest, OH maybe it is supposed to be compass, ok I take it back, that would be interesting. Original point: church names, yes there are some strange ones out there and honestly I feel like it should be required that they have "church" in the name and at least on the sign some indication of the denomination ( or non-denom) as well.

[seraaa]

43 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

My opinion, it is because they think putting their beliefs out there will turn off potential members. Non-denominational can make it easier for them to bring in people and love bomb them before they figure out what the church actually stands for. BElevation Church which is huge in this area, they have campuses everywhere is actually a southern baptist church, but you aren't going to see that when just looking at their church website or from their name. 

https://elevationchurch.org/

What about people who are instinctively suspicious of them because it's so vague? Or do they want to filter us out from the offset lol.

 

It is so sneaky and I do not like it.

[SilverBeach]

On 2/16/2019 at 5:34 AM, Ali said:

No, it is not true that 50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Someone misinterpreted raw data years ago and the myth has not died. The rate of divorce is much higher after the first marriage.

https://www.divorcesource.com/ds/main/u-s-divorce-rates-and-statistics-1037.shtml

I read the article. It rejected the overall 50% rate, but asserted overall rates for second and third marriages. Nowhere did it state a rate of divorce for first marriages. Perhaps all averaged together, the rate is 50% or so.

It also said:

"The one-on-two statistic so endlessly repeated by moralizing clerics, grandstanding politicians and tendentious commentators misleads people because people who are divorcing in any given year are not the same people who are marrying."

I don't get this at all. What is the relevance, in calculating divorce statistics, of the people who are not divorcing in any year not being the same who got married i? And is this not true for second and third marriages also?

The article also states "A young couple marrying for the first time today has a lifetime divorce risk of 40 percent, "unless current trends change significantly."

 "One the positive side, the rate has been slowly declining. On the negative side, a young couple does really have a high chance of not making it...Marriages starting out today are at great risk for divorce or marital distress."

I found the article to be unclear and rambling, was it supportive of marriage or not?

On 2/16/2019 at 7:24 AM, Audrey2 said:

It bothers me even more when a church of a denomination just chooses to call itself a  name which does not include the denomination.

Me too, this was a problem with the church I just resigned from. Obviously bait and switch. They hope that the love-bombing and good feelings you got while attending a few times will override any negativity you might feel when you find out in a new member class what the affiliation actually is.

[BeckaBoots]

On 1/29/2019 at 4:48 AM, SassyPants said:

Recently my husband KM’d the attic, BUT he only 86’d my stuff. All his stuff must bring him GREAT joy. Most of our Christmas stuff, not so much. I did retrieve some of the stuff from his donate pile, but not all of it. I remind him of his evil ways, often!

I didn't know the term 86'd and had to google it.  It's such a great phrase and one I'll definitely use

[TatiFish9]

@zygote373 did Jeremy and Audrey ever say why they left TLC?

[Purrl]

On 2/16/2019 at 11:53 AM, seraaa said:

If they do have a common set of beliefs, why call themselves 'non-denominational'? 

Does 'non-denominational' mean the church has its own theological interpretation, or that it isn't a member of a denominal association, or that it welcomes people with varying beliefs?

My understanding of and experience with the non-denominational churches in my area (south LA) is that they basically follow Southern Baptist beliefs, practices and interpretations but that they do not belong to any SB association. There is also peppier music and more jumping and shouting in the services, which is what sets them apart from SB churches and appeals to many of their attendees who might otherwise worship at a SB church. Of course, I haven’t visited every non-denom church around.

[JingerSnaps]

Many of the non-dom and/or ambiguously named churches in my area seem to be off shoots of Pentecostalism, although we have quite a few of the Baptist varieties as well.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

The nondenominational church I attended was heavily influenced by the Baptist church, and frowned on Pentecostals. Much in the same way in sure Pentecostals look down on Baptists. 

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

The nondenominational church I attended was heavily influenced by the Baptist church, and frowned on Pentecostals. Much in the same way in sure Pentecostals look down on Baptists. 

Nothing like that good ole' Christian unity!

[seashell1025]

18 minutes ago, JingerSnaps said:

Many of the non-dom and/or ambiguously named churches in my area seem to be off shoots of Pentecostalism, although we have quite a few of the Baptist varieties as well.

Same here. the majority of non denominational churches here in my neck of the woods in Michigan are either pentecostal or baptist.  majority baptist especially if you go to the "Bible belt" of the state-- Grand Rapids is the spot for Baptist rooted nondenoms!

[JingerSnaps]

5 minutes ago, seashell1025 said:

Same here. the majority of non denominational churches here in my neck of the woods in Michigan are either pentecostal or baptist.  majority baptist especially if you go to the "Bible belt" of the state-- Grand Rapids is the spot for Baptist rooted nondenoms!

I’m in Indiana so I’m sure we have very similar church profiles. The Missionary Church denomination seems to like the ambiguous names as well even though they are not really non-dom.

[Sullie06]

On 2/14/2019 at 1:27 PM, libgirl2 said:

That is a lovely church. 

Thank you. I was actually married in this church 13 years ago, I don't practice anymore but I always loved this church. It was a beautiful backdrop for my wedding photos too.