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Georgiana

JinJer 47: Sparking J-O-Y

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Glasgowghirl
20 hours ago, Anna Bolinas said:

In today's BEC, completely irrational anger news: I'm so annoyed that Jeremy is wearing a Phillies hat in a picture on Joy's instagram. I know he's from Pennsylvania, I know he was born in the greater Philadelphia metropolitan area, but that is my team and I just want to reach into the screen and snatch the hat off his ugly head.

I see your point, I also cringe when I see religious bigots identifying they support the same team as me, when your team is associated with Irish Catholic immigrants then it attracts bigots.

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Pecansforeveryone

I don't think it's entirely BEC to be upset with Jeremy wearing a Phillies hat for any number of reasons. In their private time, they bash, disparage, and condemn to hell all the merchandisers, managers, and players who don't conform to their narrow world view. That's unkind and quite galling. 

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theotherelise

There are tons of small baptist churches around my area that have gotten so small that they will look to give away their buildings to other churches. Usually they want the church to be the same denomination. One church was given a smaller church building and then kept growing and just recently switched buildings with another church that had a larger building but dwindling congregation.

I live Bible-belt adjacent and this is still happening where I'm at. I imagine Laredo has some empty church buildings looking for renters or even someone to take over ownership/upkeep for free. Also, property values and commercial rent have to be very reasonable there, right?

It's hard for my church to rent here because Stan Kroenke and his wife (who is a Walton) own so much of the available space and can afford to keep buildings vacant until they get absurdly high rent amounts.

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nausicaa
On 2/10/2019 at 10:39 AM, Pecansforeveryone said:

Oh, so John Macarthur's been in ministry for 50 years? Lucky us. Note to Jeremy: there are churches out there for that have been spreading the gospel for oh 500 years and more. I really don't know how Jeremy reconcile the dissonance of their huge gap in the church timeline from Paul to thousands of years later when their magically true and Godly church comes on the scene.

It's not as popular now, but Baptist Blood Theory (also called Baptist Successionism, but I think the former sounds cooler and more macabre) posits that there were always Baptists around in secret or not so secret churches and were the true and unbroken inheritors of Paul's work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_successionism

Most Baptists now are Restorationists. So their argument is that the Catholic/Orthodox churches may have initially been the inheritors of Paul, but became corrupted and lost sight of Jesus's message. So the Baptists/Mormons/Seventh Day Adventists rose up and reformed the church back to how Jesus/Paul really wanted things.

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xenobia
5 hours ago, wandering woman said:

I have trouble believing that Jeremy is a full time pastor. He and Jinger are on the road constantly, and I can't imagine when he finds time to actually work.

Has he said that he's a full time pastor? I'm scandinavian, and I don't know how this usually works in the US, but here there are lots of part-time pastors in smaller churches. I think it's a good thing. The congregation can't afford to pay for full time, and the pastor gets to keep in touch with a more regular life. One pastor that I know works part time as a prison warden (I think that's the correct word). Of course, Jeremy isn't in touch with regular life. That's not my point here :)

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SassyPants
13 minutes ago, xenobia said:

Has he said that he's a full time pastor? I'm scandinavian, and I don't know how this usually works in the US, but here there are lots of part-time pastors in smaller churches. I think it's a good thing. The congregation can't afford to pay for full time, and the pastor gets to keep in touch with a more regular life. One pastor that I know works part time as a prison warden (I think that's the correct word). Of course, Jeremy isn't in touch with regular life. That's not my point here :)

PT pastor PT reality Tv participant.

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Pecansforeveryone

@nausicaa, I know my fundie Charismatic mother believed there were always secret, "true" Christians in hiding during the times of Constantine and the 1st Popes. I "learned" that from a Jack Chick comic my mom had lying around the house. She collects Jack Chick tracts and comics like coins. Most of the fundies I know do claim Martin Luther as a true blue believer and genuine reformer. They just think he didn't go quite far enough so you had to have Calvin and company as well. 

Edited by Pecansforeveryone
Add a thought

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ElToro
12 hours ago, Italiangirl said:

Am I the only one who dosen't like the neon color cross? I found it, I dunno like a lunapark attraction? Or something similar. It disturb me 

There is something about the way the pulpit is right in the middle of the stage- in the neon spotlight, if you will- that screams to me of someone needing ALL the attention.

Personally, I like a nice off-to-the-side pulpit and a pastor who isn't a huge asshat. (My last job was, rather randomly, in a church and the vicar there was a complete prick, so I might be projecting here... )

Just to add. I believe MacArthur is the guy that just claimed to have been with MLK when he was shot... something like that, anyway. Of course it was completely refuted by the people who actually were with MLK. I mean, dumbass, if you are gonna lie, at least make it non-verifiable!

Edited by ElToro

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Pecansforeveryone

@ElToro, yeah I read about John Macarthur and MLK on Wartburg Watch. Macarthur as far I'm concerned refuted any possible association with MLK when signed that despicable statement that racism doesn't exist/ isn't a big deal.

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PainfullyAware

I was trying to think of what bothered me about the setup of the church and you nailed it by pointing out that it's because the pulpit is in the center.

 Even if they are renting the space from a different congregation I think it shows the faith that Grace Church puts in Jeremy to pony up the money for that in a new church 'plant'.

 Jeremy is now doing his master's degree in theology at the Grace Church long-distance Seminary program so that is probably taking up some of his time. He also seems to be doing a lot of speeches at Grace Church conferences, and I assume would get paid for that. Maybe it's part of the salary they pay him to come and do those workshops around the country. He probably is some kind of 'rising young star' within that church group and they want to give him opportunities. Of course they also get paid to be on their reality show and that might account for the other part of his income. I think we would have heard about a part-time job by now if he did one.

Edited by PainfullyAware

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Waffle Time
metheglyn
1 hour ago, ElToro said:

There is something about the way the pulpit is right in the middle of the stage- in the neon spotlight, if you will- that screams to me of someone needing ALL the attention.

Personally, I like a nice off-to-the-side pulpit and a pastor who isn't a huge asshat. (My last job was, rather randomly, in a church and the vicar there was a complete prick, so I might be projecting here... )

You're right. I'm Episcopalian and not having an altar in the middle (facing forward or backward, which is a theological distinction in itself) is disconcerting. It really demarcates who this kind of denomination (inasmuch as it is any sort of coherent denomination) thinks is the central aspect of the church.

Yes, the priest is usually centered before or behind the altar when it's present in an Episcopal church, but it's an ALTAR, not a pulpit.

Of course, in liturgical churches like EC there's a lot more going on than just the priest sermonizing at the congregation, so I'm sure that's issue here. This kind of church is SOLELY about the sermon (and the man giving the sermon), rather than any of the other aspects of churches that DO believe in a liturgy, which seems to be considered heretical by baptists, especially IFB, include in a service.

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ElToro
17 minutes ago, metheglyn said:

This kind of church is SOLELY about the sermon (and the man giving the sermon)

Exactly! And,as @PainfullyAwarepointed out, he hasn't even completed a masters in theology yet. He just thinks he knows God better than the rest of his misled flock. It's the arrogance of the man that gets me!

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mollysmom

As far as the pulpit being in the middle, I actually thought that was normal. I grew up in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches & that's how every single one of them were set up. I didn't realize that not all churches do that. 

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Waffle Time
OldFadedStar

Yeah... I've grown up in church and have gone to many different churches, and denominations, over my life and the pulpit has always been in the center of the stage. That isn't strange or attention seeking to me at all, especially with grace church coming from more of a baptist background. 

 

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Waffle Time
metheglyn
4 hours ago, mollysmom said:

As far as the pulpit being in the middle, I actually thought that was normal. I grew up in Independent Fundamental Baptist churches & that's how every single one of them were set up. I didn't realize that not all churches do that. 

That's an interesting point, because I've mostly just been in at least minimally liturgical churches in the last several decades (include a Methodist church that doesn't *really* follow the liturgy, but still has the prayer book present in the pews and the general structure setup), and it's always the altar in the center usually with the pulpit on the left from the congregation's side and often a second stand on the right.

In the Episcopal church (and I believe other similar liturgical churches), if there are both stations set up in the traditional fashion, the left side is called the Gospel side (where the Gospel readings are read and also where the sermon is likely given from, if they're not done with the priest standing out in the center of the congregation), and the right side is called the Epistle side (where members of the congregation read the Old and New Testament readings, if this station is present). Not all churches I've attended have both, especially nowadays, but they're still common in many Western so called "high church" denominations. (Here high church simply means that they use liturgy, vestments, often organs, chanting, Latin, etc., as in "high ceremony".)

The altar is in the center and that's where the Eucharist is given from and much of the liturgy such as blessings and confessions of sin are uttered from, but not the sermon. The altar and what is done there is really the focus of the service, rather than the priest and the sermon (which for Episcopalians had better be no more than 15 minutes).

The wide image in this example shows the altar, the Epistle stand on the right, and the stairs leading to the Gospel/Sermon platform on the left, with the Organ looming behind the altar. The zoomed image on the left shows the actual Gospel/Sermon platform itself.

 

High Church.PNG

Edited by metheglyn
too many words - I know my directions, dangit

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libgirl2
On 2/10/2019 at 11:02 AM, Carm_88 said:

He did a write in. My friend's Evangleical husband did too. He is mainly Republican but just couldn't do it. 

On 2/10/2019 at 11:58 AM, BernRul said:

So maybe I have an exceptionally dark mind, but even when I was a teen I thought this was stupid because a girl can always be raped. I know that sounds awful, but it's true. With HPV being so common, why would you ever put your child at risk? But again, maybe my mind just goes to dark places that others' don't. 

Dark? Maybe, but its entirely possible. 

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Happy
Carm_88

That is so odd. I'm Catholic, so the pulpit is always off the to the side with the alter in the center. If the priest or the readers were front and center for anything except the blessing of the Eucharist, it would feel very strange. 

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seraaa

The altar/pulpit positioning may be a distinction between Reformed and Mainline churches, or between churches for whom the Word is the most central aspect versus churches which developed differently after the reformation etc

In some post-reformation churches the pulpit was actually in the centre, with the congregation surrounding it

Edited by seraaa

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nolongerIFBx
On 2/11/2019 at 11:20 AM, nausicaa said:

It's not as popular now, but Baptist Blood Theory (also called Baptist Successionism, but I think the former sounds cooler and more macabre) posits that there were always Baptists around in secret or not so secret churches and were the true and unbroken inheritors of Paul's work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_successionism

Most Baptists now are Restorationists. So their argument is that the Catholic/Orthodox churches may have initially been the inheritors of Paul, but became corrupted and lost sight of Jesus's message. So the Baptists/Mormons/Seventh Day Adventists rose up and reformed the church back to how Jesus/Paul really wanted things.

Trail of Blood has a chart in it that shows how they believe that the line of the true church has been unbroken.

trail of blood.JPG

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HereticHick
9 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

That is so odd. I'm Catholic, so the pulpit is always off the to the side with the alter in the center. If the priest or the readers were front and center for anything except the blessing of the Eucharist, it would feel very strange. 

I grew up Methodist, and I always think of the pulpit off to the side as well. Altar smack in the center. I see that at Jeremy's church the altar table is actually in front of the stage. I hope its movable for wedding processions.

I see the church hasn't updated the building picture on their website yet: https://www.gcclaredo.com/about/

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nausicaa
14 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

Yeah... I've grown up in church and have gone to many different churches, and denominations, over my life and the pulpit has always been in the center of the stage. 

Wait, always? Even in a Catholic, Episcopal, or Orthodox church? I've never seen that before and I've been to a lot of Catholic weddings along the US East Coast and visited probably more than twenty Episcopal churches. I can't even recall seeing it at the Lutheran and Presbyterian weddings I've been to (granted only a handful of those).

I'm not doubting that some churches are set up this way, but a sizable number of denominations?

Edited by nausicaa

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JDuggs

In my Catholic experience, the gospel is read from the lectern off on the side, but often priests like to go “center stage” on a wireless mic for the homily (sermon.)

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Ali
26 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Wait, always? Even in a Catholic, Episcopal, or Orthodox church? I've never seen that before and I've been to a lot of Catholic weddings along the US East Coast and visited probably more than twenty Episcopal churches. I can't even recall seeing it at the Lutheran and Presbyterian weddings I've been to (granted only a handful of those).

I'm not doubting that some churches are set up this way, but a sizable number of denominations?

The pulpit in the center has been my experience too and I have been many different denominations. My background is not Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline protestant though. Honestly, I was confused about the criticism because it seems normal to me for the pastor to be in the center.  I agree that Jeremy is an attention seeker, but the set up of the pulpit is not out of the norm for evangelical churches.

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wandering woman

I found Jeremy especially irritating in the Counting On episode last night. He thinks he is so wonderful for cooking a spicy meal and always has that annoying grin on his face. 

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HereticHick
2 hours ago, Ali said:

The pulpit in the center has been my experience too and I have been many different denominations. My background is not Catholic, Orthodox, or mainline protestant though. Honestly, I was confused about the criticism because it seems normal to me for the pastor to be in the center.  I agree that Jeremy is an attention seeker, but the set up of the pulpit is not out of the norm for evangelical churches.

My question for evangelical church goers--where do you put the communion "wine" and bread if the pulpit is in the middle of the stage? 

This may explain why so many fundy weddings surprise me with assorted "stage props"--screens, etc. in the middle of the stage. I grew up mainline protestant, with the expectation of an altar in the middle (where you have candles, and communion goods on communion days) that you don't move or conceal. To my Methodist inner kid, it feels sacrilegious to conceal the altar during a wedding ceremony.

Edited by HereticHick

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