Josiah & Lauren 13: Drift, Duggars, Drift (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[freethemall]

I'm glad I'm not the only one perturbed by the baby #2 thing. I thought maybe I was being an asshole.

I understand this in the context of her grief and connection to her first pregnancy and fetus, but what bothers me is that this is more about pushing their prolife agenda than anything else. In some ways it's also a bit of arrogant of them compared to other fundies - here we had the show 19k&c, not 21k&c, and Anna just explicitly announced #6, not #___ (don't know how many miscarriages she's had). I wonder if Anna or Michelle are feeling like they've been numbering incorrectly. One thing Anna may understand better than Lauren is carrying a child is not the same as parenting it, which Lauren and Josiah have not yet done.

I do like the name Asa though, it's very Southern but also reminiscent of the Russian "Asya" (for women).

[Mela99]

I am always torn on these announcements. On one hand, you lucky little fertile rabbits ...
On the other, I can't say a word because I wouldn't wish infertility on anyone.
.
I haven't seen it discussed here and this may be way too much information, but in that article when Lauren is discussing finding her miscarriage as "there was the baby"... Is that what happens? Is that how it actually comes out, and you can tell what you're looking at? I swear I'm not being snarky or judgmental, I just have no idea what the physical process is.

[Smee]

Asa also means “healer” which is interesting in the context. I feel like SiRen might be a couple to pick names based on their meanings (so I should amend my guesses). If my third child had been a boy, we would have used Raphael (God has healed) due to some major things going on before and during that pregnancy. That’s probably too Catholic-sounding for the Duggars though.

2 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I am always torn on these announcements. On one hand, you lucky little fertile rabbits ...
On the other, I can't say a word because I wouldn't wish infertility on anyone.
.
I haven't seen it discussed here and this may be way too much information, but in that article when Lauren is discussing finding her miscarriage as "there was the baby"... Is that what happens? Is that how it actually comes out, and you can tell what you're looking at? I swear I'm not being snarky or judgmental, I just have no idea what the physical process is.

Yes, depending on how far along you are, you can tell when you pass the sac and it looks visibly different to a large clot.

[Casserole]

I guess fetus #2 doesn't have a good ring to it, huh? I'm weirded out by the baby #2 thing. It just feels too rabid pro-life agenda to me. 

 

As an aside, I thought the balloon in the photos to represent the miscarriage was sweet. 

[SassyPants]

54 minutes ago, Smee said:

About as much as Michelle ?

This what I know about the D2s

Josh- a gross waste of space

Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger and Joy- what everyone else knows

JD- quiet guy, pilot, twin, recently married

Joe- time at Crown, married, kid, soon to be kids

Josiah- tried to drop a plastic doll to scare a worker from TLC

A metric ton of boys

4 little girls

could I give Michelle a run for her money?

Edited May 21, 2019 by SassyPants

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

More miscarriage talk under the spoiler.

Spoiler

31 minutes ago, Smee said:

 

34 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

I haven't seen it discussed here and this may be way too much information, but in that article when Lauren is discussing finding her miscarriage as "there was the baby"... Is that what happens? Is that how it actually comes out, and you can tell what you're looking at? I swear I'm not being snarky or judgmental, I just have no idea what the physical process is.

Yes, depending on how far along you are, you can tell when you pass the sac and it looks visibly different to a large clot.

Both my miscarriages were pretty early (about 6 weeks), and I just had a heavier period than usual, with more cramps and clots. I'm pretty sure I never passed a sac.

If my periods weren't so predictable, I might not have even taken a home pregnancy test that early. But if my periods had never been more than 27 days apart after I hit 30 years old, making it to 35 days without the next period was a definite indicator that something was up. 

As far as referring to babies, I say that I had 4 pregnancies and I have 2 kids. It really doesn't come up in my life very often, though. On FJ, it comes up because we discuss all this more often. In real life, it mostly just comes up on medical forms.

"# of pregnancies?  4" 

"# of live births? 2" 

I wish Lauren and Si well. I hope they have a safe healthy pregnancy with a healthy happy baby and mom at the end. And I really hope they find a way out of extremism at some point. 

[Iamtheway]

4 hours ago, FaithAndReason said:

I'm guessing that she's 16 weeks with a due date of around November 4. 

And I struggle with them making such a huge deal out of this is BABY #2. I don't know why it makes me feel weird. It is her second pregnancy but for me it's not baby #2. JMHO

I feel weird about it too. It’s very pro-life and I’m not surprised. That’s what they believe and wants to push on the rest of us.

It’s also weird to me that they don’t think about the fact that this second blessing never would have happened if the first pregnancy had gone to term. 

3 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

Asa is a biblical name.

Åsa is a female name in Sweden. Asagudarna is what we call the viking gods (Thor and the gang) so that makes the name a bit funny to me. 

[nst]

looks like I have been missing the drama in the bates thread 

Thank you SP

we aren't a fan site for sure lol - prayer closets are never fun - I should know

can I say the whole si and lauren thing with the posting is fine...but is it common for couples to do what they did with the balloon 

i don't feel comfortable about asking that at all...so I can't really post about it. 

[crancraz]

I suspect the “Baby #2” stuff will fade once baby is actually here. Right now that loss is so recent and fresh, but typically it seems that once a living baby comes, then significance of early loss seems to lessen. Women don’t forget but aren’t as emotionally devastated.

I had a stillbirth at 5 months and a loss at 4 months. I did name those babies and consider them my “children” but when I count my kids to other people, I say I have two (my two living children). I don’t count my early miscarriages, though, and never have. I was sad, it was human potential that was lost but it wasn’t anything compared to the later losses. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

More miscarriage talk under the spoiler.

  Hide contents

Both my miscarriages were pretty early (about 6 weeks), and I just had a heavier period than usual, with more cramps and clots. I'm pretty sure I never passed a sac.

If my periods weren't so predictable, I might not have even taken a home pregnancy test that early. But if my periods had never been more than 27 days apart after I hit 30 years old, making it to 35 days without the next period was a definite indicator that something was up. 

As far as referring to babies, I say that I had 4 pregnancies and I have 2 kids. It really doesn't come up in my life very often, though. On FJ, it comes up because we discuss all this more often. In real life, it mostly just comes up on medical forms.

"# of pregnancies?  4" 

"# of live births? 2" 

I wish Lauren and Si well. I hope they have a safe healthy pregnancy with a healthy happy baby and mom at the end. And I really hope they find a way out of extremism at some point. 

Spoiler

I miscarried around six weeks as well and this was my experience too. I bled a lot and had some cramping, but otherwise it wasn’t physically painful or difficult. I think the bleeding was over after about a week. I didn’t see a sac or “baby,” though the ER staff asked me to watch for it just in case. 

And yes, I have to answer the “number of pregnancies” and “number of children” questions at medical appointments all the time. I get that it’s part of their job and it’s important they know, but it does bother me a bit when I have to answer it at every appointment I have at my normal OBGYN’s office. I’ve been under their care for all my pregnancies and it should be right in my file. I wish I didn’t have to discuss it or my daughter’s premature birth each visit. 

If asked by a stranger I always just say I have one child because that’s the truth.  My living, breathing toddler is very different than the early pregnancy I lost and I would feel odd claiming otherwise. 

ETA: Mild correction. I sometimes say I have two kids. I like to count Velocipuppy as my sweet little firstborn. ?

47 minutes ago, nst said:

looks like I have been missing the drama in the bates thread 

Thank you SP

we aren't a fan site for sure lol - prayer closets are never fun - I should know

can I say the whole si and lauren thing with the posting is fine...but is it common for couples to do what they did with the balloon 

i don't feel comfortable about asking that at all...so I can't really post about it. 

Some couples who have had a loss choose to acknowledge the loss in announcement photos somehow. I’ve seen the balloon idea used on the internet before. One woman I know since childhood chose to mention her second son was their “rainbow baby” when they announced she was pregnant with him. I think it can kind of be a sweet way to acknowledge a difficult experience, while also celebrating a new and exciting moment in your lives. I do see why some people are hesitant or skeptical though because they have been vocal about their anti-choice beliefs in the recent past. 

41 minutes ago, crancraz said:

I suspect the “Baby #2” stuff will fade once baby is actually here. Right now that loss is so recent and fresh, but typically it seems that once a living baby comes, then significance of early loss seems to lessen. Women don’t forget but aren’t as emotionally devastated.

I had a stillbirth at 5 months and a loss at 4 months. I did name those babies and consider them my “children” but when I count my kids to other people, I say I have two (my two living children). I don’t count my early miscarriages, though, and never have. I was sad, it was human potential that was lost but it wasn’t anything compared to the later losses. 

Yes, I think this is pretty true. I think having your first pregnancy end in a loss can be especially difficult to cope with. At least it was for me. My second pregnancy was tough emotionally because I just expected something to go wrong again the entire time. It has been easier to move forward since I had my daughter and she’s a toddler, but I do occasionally have moments where I do still feel a bit sad or wonder why it happened. Those moments are thankfully becoming more rare now that we’re three years past it though. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by VelociRapture

[luv2laugh]

I don’t care about them saying it’s Baby number 2. Would I do it? No. However, I can’t judge the way someone wants to grieve. It’s not my place.

Although, I believe they are referring to it being Baby #2 due to their pro-life agenda. Also, I think they waited after Mother’s Day to take advantage of the sympathy they’ve received among their fan base and basically use it as a tool to spread their pro-life beliefs. 

They’ve received a lot of sympathy over their miscarriage and Josiah & Lauren went out of their way to make fans believe she wasn’t pregnant. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by luv2laugh

[Lynn18]

Alls I can think about is Asa Buchanan from One Life to Live. Yup, totally dating myself.

[lumpentheologie]

It’s just so hard to see very young fundies become parents. I don’t have a issue with regular people opting for younger parenthood, but with these kind of couples it just shows how little chance they have to step away from their harmful upbringing before inflicting it on the next generation. 

[Seculardaisy]

3 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I am always torn on these announcements. On one hand, you lucky little fertile rabbits ...
On the other, I can't say a word because I wouldn't wish infertility on anyone.
.
I haven't seen it discussed here and this may be way too much information, but in that article when Lauren is discussing finding her miscarriage as "there was the baby"... Is that what happens? Is that how it actually comes out, and you can tell what you're looking at? I swear I'm not being snarky or judgmental, I just have no idea what the physical process is.

Spoiler

I miscarried around 8 weeks. All I could see was blood and occasional blood clots. Nothing that resembled anything.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Seculardaisy

[AussieKrissy]

3 hours ago, Casserole said:

I guess fetus #2 doesn't have a good ring to it, huh? I'm weirded out by the baby #2 thing. It just feels too rabid pro-life agenda to me. 

 

As an aside, I thought the balloon in the photos to represent the miscarriage was sweet. 

Wait, what did I miss did they announce?

 

Ah I had to go back three page, found

Edited May 21, 2019 by AussieKrissy

[adidas]

40 minutes ago, Seculardaisy said:

  Hide contents

I miscarried around 8 weeks. All I could see was blood and occasional blood clots. Nothing that resembled anything.

 

Trigger warning - about to discuss with graphic detail what I experienced when I miscarried. Skip the next bit.

Spoiler

IME yes, there was visible foetal tissue. I think it is more obvious the further along in the pregnancy you are.

 

[AussieKrissy]

8 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

https://www.behindthename.com/name/asa

Do you think this means they knew it was a boy, since this is a male name?

is it pronounced As ahh/Az ah

Or ass ah

 

[Lgirlrocks]

My mom had five miscarriages and three babies born. She tell everyone she has three kids on earth. She doesn’t usually bring up her miscarriages unless it comes up in the conversation. It’s hard for her to talk about because the last one almost killed her. My mom is ver pro life. She recognizes that the babies she lost could have been her kids on earth. 

[justmy2cents]

17 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Do you think this means they knew it was a boy, since this is a male name?

No, it's very doubtful they were far enough along to know. Josiah said that they found out they were expecting and then shortly after she miscarried. She wouldn't have been far enough along to even do a blood test that could detect the sex. Jim Bob and Michelle named their miscarriage Caleb even though they didn't know the sex.

[Audrey2]

There are now about enough grandchildren that I can see Michelle saying, as she's holding a baby, "Oh what a sweet precious Baby. Whose is it again?"

[SecularMusic]

7 hours ago, Sullie06 said:

The baby number 2 thing is weird to me. I've lost two pregnancies, one before both of my successful pregnancies. We did name both of those babies as they both had heartbeats we had heard before the ultimately stopped. However, we never called our children baby #2 and baby #4, yes they were our 2nd and 4th pregnancies but they are our 1st and 2nd babies. 

It's weird to me, too. The only time I bring mine up is during doctor visits. I actually feel guilty sometimes bc I never grieved the way many pro life women do. As the mom of three, I just can't compare a miscarriage to losing a child that's been born.

[Smee]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Do you think this means they knew it was a boy, since this is a male name?

is it pronounced As ahh/Az ah

Or ass ah

 

I’d been saying A (like the letter) sah... but I don’t know if that’s right 

[bal maiden]

I have a friend whose son is called Asa, and they pronounce it Ace-uh

[just_ordinary]

6 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I don’t care about them saying it’s Baby number 2. Would I do it? No. However, I can’t judge the way someone wants to grieve. It’s not my place.

Although, I believe they are referring to it being Baby #2 due to their pro-life agenda. Also, I think they waited after Mother’s Day to take advantage of the sympathy they’ve received among their fan base and basically use it as a tool to spread their pro-life beliefs. 

They’ve received a lot of sympathy over their miscarriage and Josiah & Lauren went out of their way to make fans believe she wasn’t pregnant. 

I agree. They may have not been ready to announce on Mother’s Day. That’s their prerogative. I think the post is a bit weird because the miscarried baby wouldn’t have been born yet and I don’t think they would have posted on Mothers Day if she was still pregnant. 

5 hours ago, Seculardaisy said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I miscarried around 8 weeks. All I could see was blood and occasional blood clots. Nothing that resembled anything.

 

Spoiler

I think it depends. Often in early miscarriages the embryo is already disintegrated when the miscarriage happens. In that case you won’t find any visible remains. At six weeks the embryo is about as big as a blueberry so it could be possible to see it but as I understand it it’s very rare. I had a missed abort but even though the baby stopped developing around six weeks I didn’t miscarry. At my ten or eleven week appointment we found out and I had a curettage a week later. The hospital did a second us and only then the involucre had just started to deform and was about to disintegrate. If we had waited for a natural miscarriage there wouldn’t have been visible remains.

 

[Glasgowghirl]

6 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

There are now about enough grandchildren that I can see Michelle saying, as she's holding a baby, "Oh what a sweet precious Baby. Whose is it again?"

With the amount of them that are going to be born within a few months, I can understand them being confused now. I still think Abbie will announce soon and then possibly Jill or Jinger.