Josiah & Lauren 13: Drift, Duggars, Drift (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[HurricaneBells]

21 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

That’s exactly what I needed to read today. I think the same and my daughter had fairy floss and a packet of chips for lunch today. 

Bit late but me too! Its almost dinner time and he is sitting next to me crunching chocolate dinosaur eggs.... lol. 

[Thorns]

Warning: Surgery/XU-triggers. And ramblings.

I've actually had a lot of time to think about this ("when does one become a mother") the last couple of days, as I'm a couch potato recouperating from an operation for a extrauterine pregnancy... We are going through fertility treatments, and I did not think I could be pregnant (negative test that cycle, a recent ultrasound with findings similar to ovulation) when I got the stomach pains. Sooo, I ended up finding out I was pregnant for the first time in the company of my gynecologist and a nurse, knowing that if I was I would have to have surgery to remove it within hours. In some ways, I like to think that this was better than knowing beforehand, having started to get attached to the pregnancy, and going through the fear of the bleeding and the (not to bad) pain. I think that would have been worse in every possible way.

I do not feel like a mother. Still being somewhat numb in body and soul, I do not even feel as if I've been pregnant. It would probably have been different if I had known. Would I have felt like a mother then? I do not know. 

Does Lauren? Obviously. Does that mean that one of us feels wrongly? No. You can't controll your feelings. I feel I should probably feel and/or care more. I do not. Maybe I will at a later time, I do not know. Does it suck for both of us? Yes. But, probably more for Lauren than for me. I have the unconditional support of friends and family, without the pressure of feeling a certain way or the narrow confines of a religion. I do not have to make this a defining moment for me. Due to their beliefs, I believe Lauren has no choice in her mode of reaction, whether she feels it is fitting or not. And that is the sad part...

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Thorns
Text ended up twice.

[xenobia]

There's a lot of speculation on Instagram about the second picture in this post. You can see a lot of Duggar girls out on a restaurant, and people think that it looks like Lauren has a baby bump. I have no idea if she's pregnant or not. We'll find out. 

 

[miss_batson]

When the pitcure iz zoomed i also think there is a bump. But the time will tell is she or not.. Also, where the hell is Jessa's bump? ? She is like 37 weeks or more.. 

Also, more of Lauren's birthday..

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by miss_batson

[TheMustardCardigan]

Adding to the speculation— I read somewhere that people were commenting on Lauren’s Easter Insta post saying the yellow maxi dress she was wearing was a maternity dress from Target. I googled “yellow maternity dress Target” and immediately found it. So that’s another piece of the puzzle. 

[xenobia]

....and if you look at the third picture of her birthday post, she and Si are conveniently half hidden behind the birthday banner. Could be just a coincidence. We'll see. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

It does look like she is wearing Jinger’s dress.  If she is pregnant, I hope they don’t announce until they feel comfortable doing so.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, miss_batson said:

When the pitcure iz zoomed i also think there is a bump.

Why don't you guys ask her to post naked pics full frontal and side so you don't have to work so hard to determine what may or may not be in her uterus?

Or just keep hyperfocusing and zooming in on the bodies of young women even though the contents of their womb (or lack thereof) are none of your business until they announce.

 

2 hours ago, xenobia said:

There's a lot of speculation on Instagram about the second picture in this post.

So there is a place for those of you who speculate on bodies to do so.  So why do you bring it here to dump the speculation shit on our carpet - why not do it there?

[Kelsey]

It's weird to me how every woman in the picture has basically the same long flowing locks. I think that is a nice hairstyle and they all look good but it's weird that none of them choose something different. I feel like it was truly a choice, at least one of them would choose something different from time to time.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, Kelsey said:

It's weird to me how every woman in the picture has basically the same long flowing locks. I think that is a nice hairstyle and they all look good but it's weird that none of them choose something different. I feel like it was truly a choice, at least one of them would choose something different from time to time.

I know originally the long crunchy curls were a Gothard preference (I still can't believe parents groomed their daughters to appeal to him) but as he's gone is there a religious meaning to the long hair?

I know there is some biblical stuff about it being a woman's glory or whatever, is that where it comes from?  

[xenobia]

23 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

So there is a place for those of you who speculate on bodies to do so.  So why do you bring it here to dump the speculation shit on our carpet - why not do it there?

I thought that this was a forum for all kind of things that has to do with Josiah and Lauren. And yes, I thought it was okay to talk about the debates on instagram (and reddit, twitter and similar places). It was never my intention to hurt someones feelings, with is one of the other reasons I thought it was much more okay to report about things here rather than putting fuel on the flame in Laurens own instagram. I have no problem if any of the admins wants to remove my post. 

[Glasgowghirl]

Even if the dress is a maternity dress that doesn't mean she is pregnant, I've never been pregnant and I've bought a top from the maternity section before because I liked it and Lauren may have bought it before she miscarried or even before she was pregnant because she knew she would get pregnant at some point. 

Josiah did say she wasn't pregnant a few weeks ago and while that may have changed but I don't see them announcing if they are until they are passed the first trimester.

[SilverBeach]

11 minutes ago, xenobia said:

I thought that this was a forum for all kind of things that has to do with Josiah and Lauren.

Not leg-humpery, stalker-y, or just plain old gossipy types of things though.  Yeah, these folks have elevated pregnancy and motherhood to cult status, but I find the microscopic examination of these women's bodies and clothing choices to be problematic. 

[BachelorToTheRapture]

I hate pregnancy speculation more than "she's a Duggar, she's due" or "according to her pattern...", but I find the speculation about Lauren particularly distasteful. This is a young woman who has been taught that her biggest goal in life is to be a mother. She is clearly grieving her miscarriage (see Josiah's mother's day post) and may feel as though she did something wrong to not be pregnant like so many of her sisters in law. 

Plus, I have a bump at least as big as hers and I'm proud of how small it's become. Mine is 100% cheese, ice cream, and carbs.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 minutes ago, xenobia said:

I thought that this was a forum for all kind of things that has to do with Josiah and Lauren. And yes, I thought it was okay to talk about the debates on instagram (and reddit, twitter and similar places). It was never my intention to hurt someones feelings, with is one of the other reasons I thought it was much more okay to report about things here rather than putting fuel on the flame in Laurens own instagram. I have no problem if any of the admins wants to remove my post. 

We don't remove posts (except in exceptional circumstances as doxing, etc.)  

It's not against the rules, but many people here find it offensive to scrutinize the bodies of women.  The implication is any women without a perfectly flat or concave stomach, or wearing a loose dress, makes her body free game to go under the microscope.

This isn't about protecting fundies, it's about not contributing the social truth that woman's bodies are everyone's business to judge and assess.  And it doesn't matter if they turn out pregnant - if they haven't announces looking for clues on their bodies is rude.

But it's not against the rules and people can do it, but I will personally always call it out when I see it.  Then people will be pissed with me telling me to stop repeating myself...but I never bring it up except in response to someone doing it so Idk how calling it out is more redundant than doing it but that's okay.

[melon]

37 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I know originally the long crunchy curls were a Gothard preference (I still can't believe parents groomed their daughters to appeal to him) but as he's gone is there a religious meaning to the long hair?

I know there is some biblical stuff about it being a woman's glory or whatever, is that where it comes from?  

Yes,there is a biblical reference about a woman's hair being her crowning glory,I believe.

My grandmother was born in 1905.When she was a girl, "bobbed" hair became fashionable.She wanted to cut her hair,and both her parents said No and used this reference.

She took the scissors and cut her hair,herself.

[xenobia]

I have no problem with not posting about what's going on on other forums here, including discussion about possible pregnancies. For me personally it's not like kids are a big interest - I'm childfree by choice. So I'm totally fine with not bringing that up in the future. It's not questions about fertility that made me start posting here, it was an interest in the theological and practical aspects of being a fundie (I have a university degree in theology, and have read about american fundamentatlists from that perspective). 

12 minutes ago, melon said:

Yes,there is a biblical reference about a woman's hair being her crowning glory,I believe.

My grandmother was born in 1905.When she was a girl, "bobbed" hair became fashionable.She wanted to cut her hair,and both her parents said No and used this reference.

She took the scissors and cut her hair,herself.

..and speaking of theology, you are correct. I had to look this up in english, since it's not my first language.  

1 Corinthians 11:6 "For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head".

and later on in the same chapter: 

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering".

 

 

[Palimpsest]

14 minutes ago, xenobia said:

It's not questions about fertility that made me start posting here, it was an interest in the theological and practical aspects of being a fundie (I have a university degree in theology, and have read about american fundamentatlists from that perspective). 

There is a lot more to American Fundamentalism than the Duggars and their beliefs.  The Duggars are famous for their TV show and for hiding Joshua's sex abuse, but not that much more.  They and IBLP are only the tip of the Fundamentalist iceberg.

If this is really your reason for being here you should be reading and posting on some of the other forums on Free Jinger not limiting yourself to the Duggars.  Try Quiverfull of Snark for discussions on many different Fundamentalist families and ideas.  Try the Steven Anderson forum, he's also known as the Pissing Pastor, for dangerously extreme views, a German wife who preaches them, and a house full of miserable children.  There are also forums for the Rodrigues family (how to be a narcissist and raise multiple children by begging) and the Maxwell family (how to shelter your children until they turn into robots).   Live dangerously and visit them.  We'd be happy to see you over there. 

 

[nickelodeon]

Good grief! Not only is she a fundamentalist, but she calls macarons “macaroons”!!

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I know originally the long crunchy curls were a Gothard preference (I still can't believe parents groomed their daughters to appeal to him) but as he's gone is there a religious meaning to the long hair?

I know there is some biblical stuff about it being a woman's glory or whatever, is that where it comes from?  

Non-IBLP fundies make their daughters wear long hair as well, usually claiming that scripture dictates that men and women need to be immediately, visibly distinguishable. Jill Rod preaches about this all the time. It supposedly comes from the “that which pertaineth to a man” verses, but it’s obvious that minimizing individuality makes it easier to control people, which is what these groups are about.

[xenobia]

9 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

There is a lot more to American Fundamentalism than the Duggars and their beliefs.  The Duggars are famous for their TV show and for hiding Joshua's sex abuse, but not that much more.  They and IBLP are only the tip of the Fundamentalist iceberg.

If this is really your reason for being here you should be reading and posting on some of the other forums on Free Jinger not limiting yourself to the Duggars.  Try Quiverfull of Snark for discussions on many different Fundamentalist families and ideas.  Try the Steven Anderson forum, he's also known as the Pissing Pastor, for dangerously extreme views, a German wife who preaches them, and a house full of miserable children.  There are also forums for the Rodrigues family (how to be a narcissist and raise multiple children by begging) and the Maxwell family (how to shelter your children until they turn into robots).   Live dangerously and visit them.  We'd be happy to see you over there. 

 

Thanks - I'm going to check them out!

I found FJ after I happened to watch old episodes of Counting on on TLC, and then I found it fascinating to read more about the family. I've also kept an eye on Steven Andersson, who was supposed to come over here to Europe later this month, but I haven't posted much in those threads. And then I found the transformed wife. Lots of rabbit holes to fall down in there...  

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, xenobia said:

Steven Andersson, who was supposed to come over here to Europe later this month

He's been banned from so many countries now that he's probably going to stay at home.  Pity the people of Phoenix who can't get rid of him.

[Satan'sFortress]

I just got my hair cut super short.  And went out in public with no head covering.  I wonder how many folks I defrauded.

[singsingsing]

I just have to say this. We used to speculate about pregnancy based on appearance all the time here, and maybe I'm a mean/sick person but I honestly never really had an issue with it. I decided I was done with it awhile back mainly because it seemed pointless, but I do understand why others might find it distasteful or offensive. That said, it bothers me how much we've swung in the opposite direction. If we're supposed to be discussing the dangers of fundamentalism, well, their evangelical quiverfull ideology is one of the main dangers, so of course people are going to speculate about pregnancy. And Lauren (like most of the Duggars) has been very public about her fertility and the fact that she's been TTC. If people see her wearing a maternity dress and showing other possible signs of pregnancy, I don't think they're sick or particularly wrong to speculate. I don't like seeing people get raked over the coals just for wondering aloud if someone looks pregnant. Disagree, express distaste, sure... but this seems excessive, and I don't think it's fair. To be completely honest, I don't think I understand what is or isn't okay to discuss here anymore.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I just have to say this. We used to speculate about pregnancy based on appearance all the time here, and maybe I'm a mean/sick person but I honestly never really had an issue with it. I decided I was done with it awhile back mainly because it seemed pointless, but I do understand why others might find it distasteful or offensive. That said, it bothers me how much we've swung in the opposite direction. If we're supposed to be discussing the dangers of fundamentalism, well, their evangelical quiverfull ideology is one of the main dangers, so of course people are going to speculate about pregnancy. And Lauren (like most of the Duggars) has been very public about her fertility and the fact that she's been TTC. If people see her wearing a maternity dress and showing other possible signs of pregnancy, I don't think they're sick or particularly wrong to speculate. I don't like seeing people get raked over the coals just for wondering aloud if someone looks pregnant. Disagree, express distaste, sure... but this seems excessive, and I don't think it's fair. To be completely honest, I don't think I understand what is or isn't okay to discuss here anymore.

I don't understand what's complicated about being offended that people zoom in on pics of women and discuss their bodies looking for clues.

If you're okay with women's bodies being up for scrutiny so any weight gain (no matter how minor), bloating, or even less than form fitting outfit then fine...I find it offensive.  Tbh it makes me wonder at times why I'm part of a site where so many people think that's okay.  That's my problem and if I gets to a tipping point for me that's for me to deal with - I wouldn't try to change the rule that allows it.

If people express distasteful opinions they should expect push back.  It's never going to be a safe space to scrutinize the bodies of other women without comment or criticism.

[Smee]

She might be pregnant, who knows. But you could look at pictures of me now in a similar dress and I would look considerably more pregnant than I did when I WAS 20 weeks pregnant with #3, so scrutinising “bumps” seems much poorer taste to me than pregnancy speculations based on things they’ve said or choosing maternity clothes etc. Personally, I think if she was pregnant, Josiah’s mother’s day post wouldn’t have focused so much on the miscarriage. The difficult thing with Duggars is that they all expect to be pregnant multiple times at SOME point, so buying loose-fitting or stretchy clothes, or accepting maternity clothes from friends doesn’t necessarily mean they’re pregnant NOW.