Josiah & Lauren 13: Drift, Duggars, Drift (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[seashell1025]

It is awful that they had a miscarriage and I agree, I do hope that they don't think they did something awful to deserve it. I agree with you @They call me madre in the fact that I have heard that there is a correlation between miscarriages and celiac disease.  

Also on a side note, I cant (well okay i can, but its ridiculous) believe some of the comments on their IG post. Someone's comment was "Aw man, no more babies?" like they were just so excited for an announcement that they then decided to post that on a photo that was probably very difficult for them to even post but probably had to for show purposes. man.  Sorry for the mini rant, but man, some people. ?

[singsingsing]

To the best of my knowledge Lauren has never said she has celiac disease . She’s said she doesn’t eat gluten, and implied that it can make her ill.

[seashell1025]

@singsingsing Oh, I didn't realize that.  I thought she did. oops! 

[lumpentheologie]

I wonder if it was Josie Bates' wedding they were getting ready to go to. That was October 5th. 

[Four is Enough]

I miscarried my one and only pregnancy on my seventeenth birthday. At the time, I only felt relief. I've wondered, however, what my life would have been like had I kept the pregnancy and borne the child....

 

[Sullie06]

22 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I’ve been very open about this on here, but my first pregnancy ended in miscarriage a day shy of the 6 week mark. We went from ecstatic at the thought of having a baby of our own to completely devastated in just a week. To make matters worse, my sister had given birth to her first child two days before I learned I was pregnant. So we were trying to be supportive and happy for them while also struggling with the very genuine grief we felt for our loss. It was a very difficult time in our lives and it took a while before I was able to look at photos of my sister’s family without crying. It'll be exactly three years on February 27th and I still get a bit emotional about it. The only things I have to remember my loss are a positive pregnancy test with the date on it, a hospital bracelet, and discharge paperwork from the ER stating I had a miscarriage*. It’s a very lonely feeling to grieve for a very wanted future you’ll never have. I hope that sharing their experience brings Lauren and Si comfort. 

And I fully agree with others that the loss completely changed how I felt about pregnancy moving forward. I found out I was pregnant with my daughter just over two months after my loss and I spent the entire pregnancy worried that something would go wrong. I was just starting to relax and think things would be fine when she was born six weeks prematurely. If I’m lucky enough to concieve again then I know I’m going to be an even worse mess than last time. 

*I kept one of the positive tests from my second pregnancy as well. I honestly don’t know why I kept them. I guess it just brings me comfort or something. 

I'm very sorry for your loss. We lost our first pregnancy as well. It's a very devastating experience especially because I went into pregnancy with a very naive outlook. I never expected a miscarriage and when it happened, I assumed it was something I did.  I actually got a tattoo to remember my angels by and I kept their early ultrasound pictures. 

Then in the following 2.5 years as we struggled to conceive again it seemed like everyone around was pregnant. My best friend got pregnant twice in that time period.  Our losses (first one at 9 weeks, second at 12 weeks) for sure changed the way I viewed pregnancy, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop, I couldn't relax and enjoy it. It also changed how we grew our family. Originally we wanted a large family but after 1/2 our pregnancies ending in late 1st trimester miscarriages we just couldn't continue and stopped after our second was born. I still have a hard time with it and get a little tinge of jealousy when I see my friends and family going on to have large families. 

[finnlassie]

I am very saddened to hear about the miscarriage. It hits home. I've never experienced pregnancy and I'm not sure if my body will ever allow it, but some people close to me have had a miscarriage on their first pregnancy. And in their 20s. early 20s, and late 20s. I'm not sure how common miscarriages at a younger age has been in the past 50 years for example, but it seems more "common" nowadays. Then again, I feel like the taboo of miscarriages and talking about them has been fading away. Some of my friends have taken a couple of years, some spoke about it immediately. But when they spoke about it, to them it was very liberating and strengthened a lot of relationships.

I will never forget Baby Pearl and Baby Blueberry. No matter how early on they passed, I will always and forever be their Auntie.

[socalrules]

I feel bad for Josiah and Lauren because I believe they really stood no chance in keeping the news quiet, even if they wanted to do so. TLC was probably notify the minute Lauren was confirmed as present. I don’t doubt TLC was planning to film, or had already filmed, the announcement to the rest of the family. TLC likely was in the planning stages of he gender reveal, baby shower and Josiah being made to do ridiculous activities to get ready for being a father. After the miscarriage occurred, Josiah and Lauren may have felt they could not keep it quiet because they were bound to TLC who is really paying everyone’s bills.  Plus, they may have felt like they wasted TLC’ s money on filming that couldn’t be used.

My guess is TLC expected them to keep it quiet anyway and not reveal anything until the new season was about to start because TLC would see it as good publicity. It can’t be a coincidence it is coming out at the start of the newest boring season. These people on reality shows are basically owned by the networks. Everything they do is scripted and filmed to fit the narrative of their employer. I am not sure Josiah, after basically growing up in front of camera where everything little thing is fodder for the tv show, realizes he and Lauren could refuse to have the miscarriage be a part of the show. 

[mango_fandango]

Miscarriage is always a devastating thing to occur. It doesn’t matter who you are or your beliefs, if you wanted the baby, it’s hard. Even if you were unsure about the pregnancy it can be devastating to have it taken out of your hands. Having it all broadcast on national TV sounds like a nightmare (on top of the miscarriage itself being one).

[Carm_88]

I'm also going to chime in and say even if Josiah knew that it was the symptoms of a miscarriage, there's a chance that being shocked or panicked would push that right out of his head. I had a family member who stopped breathing and there were a few people around who were trained and certified in CPR; they still panicked. They still didn't know what to do. Even knowing the symptoms doesn't fully guarantee the way a person will act and they are both young. 

[SillyDillys]

4 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I miscarried my one and only pregnancy on my seventeenth birthday. At the time, I only felt relief. I've wondered, however, what my life would have been like had I kept the pregnancy and borne the child....

 

I felt relief, as I am pretty sure that if I didnt miscarry I would have aborted. At the same time I felt robbed of making that choice to keep it or not and wondering what might have been

I havent told anyone, the only people that know was the girl in class who followed me to the bathroom and offered me a pad and escorted me to the University Health center on our campus. She moved to Philadelphia but we still keep in touch. 

[Coconut Flan]

3 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Miscarriage is always a devastating thing to occur.

I'm going to have to interrupt and say no a miscarriage is not always devastating.  I've had several.  Losing my mother or my husband at that age would have been devastating to me.  I was never laid out devastated by any of my miscarriages and neither was my daughter.  Based on my experience, I helped her prepare for the likelihood that not all pregnancies would end well.  Contrary to the current narrative that miscarriages aren't talked about (even though we talk about them all the time here), women were always cautioning other women about the possibility of miscarriage when I had my kids back in the dinosaur age.  

Many people are devastated by a miscarriage.  I'm not trying to deny that.  I just feel I need to counter an absolutist way of looking at it and saying it's always this or always that.  It's an individual thing and not always thought of as a tragedy.  

[singsingsing]

30 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I don’t doubt TLC was planning to film, or had already filmed, the announcement to the rest of the family.

They did film it. It was previewed at the end of the season premier.

[metheglyn]

32 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I feel bad for Josiah and Lauren because I believe they really stood no chance in keeping the news quiet, even if they wanted to do so. TLC was probably notify the minute Lauren was confirmed as present. I don’t doubt TLC was planning to film, or had already filmed, the announcement to the rest of the family. TLC likely was in the planning stages of he gender reveal, baby shower and Josiah being made to do ridiculous activities to get ready for being a father. After the miscarriage occurred, Josiah and Lauren may have felt they could not keep it quiet because they were bound to TLC who is really paying everyone’s bills.  Plus, they may have felt like they wasted TLC’ s money on filming that couldn’t be used.

My guess is TLC expected them to keep it quiet anyway and not reveal anything until the new season was about to start because TLC would see it as good publicity. It can’t be a coincidence it is coming out at the start of the newest boring season. These people on reality shows are basically owned by the networks. Everything they do is scripted and filmed to fit the narrative of their employer. I am not sure Josiah, after basically growing up in front of camera where everything little thing is fodder for the tv show, realizes he and Lauren could refuse to have the miscarriage be a part of the show. 

You're right, because I'm pretty sure they've actually already shown teaser footage of the announcement, which, yeah, in light of what they've also shared, makes it seem...tacky? Heartless? Just really awkward? I don't know, but they definitely filmed the announcement, and that just makes the whole thing worse.

Edited February 12, 2019 by metheglyn
add a thought

[mango_fandango]

Fair enough @Coconut Flan. I guess it’s particularly hard for fundie women, for whom pregnancy and babies are pretty much their only goal in life. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Sullie06 said:

I'm very sorry for your loss. We lost our first pregnancy as well. It's a very devastating experience especially because I went into pregnancy with a very naive outlook. I never expected a miscarriage and when it happened, I assumed it was something I did.  I actually got a tattoo to remember my angels by and I kept their early ultrasound pictures. 

Then in the following 2.5 years as we struggled to conceive again it seemed like everyone around was pregnant. My best friend got pregnant twice in that time period.  Our losses (first one at 9 weeks, second at 12 weeks) for sure changed the way I viewed pregnancy, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop, I couldn't relax and enjoy it. It also changed how we grew our family. Originally we wanted a large family but after 1/2 our pregnancies ending in late 1st trimester miscarriages we just couldn't continue and stopped after our second was born. I still have a hard time with it and get a little tinge of jealousy when I see my friends and family going on to have large families. 

I’m really sorry about your losses too.

I originally wanted a larger family. There are a lot of reasons that isn’t happening, but my miscarriage and my daughter’s premature birth are two big ones. We’re hoping I’ll be able to concieve a second child this year, but it’s not going well so far and we both agree that we’re done after this. Trying to concieve is more stress than I’d like to deal with a third time.

1 hour ago, finnlassie said:

I am very saddened to hear about the miscarriage. It hits home. I've never experienced pregnancy and I'm not sure if my body will ever allow it, but some people close to me have had a miscarriage on their first pregnancy. And in their 20s. early 20s, and late 20s. I'm not sure how common miscarriages at a younger age has been in the past 50 years for example, but it seems more "common" nowadays. Then again, I feel like the taboo of miscarriages and talking about them has been fading away. Some of my friends have taken a couple of years, some spoke about it immediately. But when they spoke about it, to them it was very liberating and strengthened a lot of relationships.

I will never forget Baby Pearl and Baby Blueberry. No matter how early on they passed, I will always and forever be their Auntie.

I was 27 when I had my miscarriage. I think the higher number you’ve noticed may be partly because of technological advances. Fifty years ago I wouldn’t have known I was pregnant because the technology wasn’t good enough to detect a pregnancy that early on. 

I do think you’re right that it is less taboo to discuss it so publicly now though and that’s a good thing.

[kmachete14]

I hope this doesn't sound callous, but literally from what my mom has related to me, I just thought miscarriages were a necessary part of life. She had 4 in the first two years of her marriage. My mother is very pro-life but never refers to those miscarriages as lost children -- although the very first one we have a Christmas ornament for. She went on to have 5 kids in a row after those first 2 years of marriage.  Based on this attitude from my mother, as well my aunts (who all have had miscarriages, but now 2-5 kids as well), I just thought it was sort of a necessary part of trying to build a family. 

I'm not saying it's not normal for people to feel _________________ about their miscarriage, but I never thought it was taboo and was surprised to hear it described as such in last 2-3 years of social media posting about it. (not talking fundie social media here, just in general)

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by kmachete14

[Coconut Flan]

18 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I was 27 when I had my miscarriage. I think the higher number you’ve noticed may be partly because of technological advances. Fifty years ago I wouldn’t have known I was pregnant because the technology wasn’t good enough to detect a pregnancy that early on. 

You made me think.  Not a bad thing.  45 years ago they could detect a pregnancy at 5 to 6 weeks by a blood test at the doctor's office.  I had one and shocked the doctor that I was right and was pregnant.   

[Satan'sFortress]

re: Josiah saying he didn't understand what was going on:  It is conceivable that he meant that Lauren didn't share all the details while it was happening.  She is only 19 years old and a newlywed.  Possible that she is not comfortable explaining every nuance of her bodily functions with her husband. It sounds like her mom was there---maybe she talked to her mom first, and Josiah literally meant that he didn't know what was going on.  Just a thought.  While I find him even more creepy and strange than most of the other Duggars, I'm going to give him a pass on this one.  She's so young and with your first pregnancy, it can be daunting.

 

[Alisamer]

31 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

I hope this doesn't sound callous, but literally from what my mom has related to me, I just thought miscarriages were a necessary part of life. She had 4 in the first two years of her marriage. My mother is very pro-life but never refers to those miscarriages as lost children -- although the very first one we have a Christmas ornament for. She went on to have 5 kids in a row after those first 2 years of marriage.  Based on this attitude from my mother, as well my aunts (who all have had miscarriages, but now 2-5 kids as well), I just thought it was sort of a necessary part of trying to build a family. 

I'm not saying it's not normal for people to feel _________________ about their miscarriage, but I never thought it was taboo and was surprised to hear it described as such in last 2-3 years of social media posting about it. (not talking fundie social media here, just in general)

Yeah, I kind of thought the same way. My mom had a miscarriage before me, my aunt had like TWELVE before her son, who was born very premature and in the NICU for weeks after her being on bedrest because of hemorrhaging through much of the pregnancy (her daughter a few years later was a pretty normal pregnancy though). So from the time I was little I understood that not all pregnancies survive. In fact, when I was in high school, an adult close to me announced her pregnancy at 3 weeks, and I was afraid for her having announced so early. (All was fine, and I got to babysit him a lot!) I know that my mom and aunt were a bit sad about the miscarriages, but more because they wanted to have children, and less that they were sad about that particular child, if that makes sense. 

A miscarriage can be a very sad thing, a relief, confusing, or any other emotion you can imagine. It's different for everyone. And it's probably changed over time, too, due to earlier pregnancy tests, etc.

[NotQuiteMotY]

10 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Good insight on this. A lot of people don't realize some of the surprising ways Celiac can affect a person. It's more than just avoiding  gluten.

I remember hearing some talk show host make a joke about if she didn't want to get pregnant, all she had to do is eat wheat products. I figured the inflammation would make implantation hard, but I never stopped to think about maintaining the pregnancy being a problem.

I feel bad for Josiah and Lauren. Miscarriage of a wanted baby with expectations on top of it and having it all televised... eek. That's not what I'd wish on anyone.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I think I remember Lauren saying her mom is also gluten intolerant. Is this a hereditary trait? If it is Celiac, I wonder if they are aware of the higher risk of miscarriage, and how many miscarriages Lauren's mom has experienced. Also whether Lauren's mom has needed extra medical attention to carry her children to term.

Edited February 13, 2019 by VeryNikeSeamstress

[JillyO]

41 minutes ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

I think I remember Lauren saying her mom is also gluten intolerant. Is this a hereditary trait? If it is Celiac, I wonder if they are aware of the higher risk of miscarriage, and how many miscarriages Lauren's mom has experienced. Also whether Lauren's mom has needed extra medical attention to carry her children to term.

Just using you as a jumping-off point, as several other people have said similar things.

From everything I've read (and admittedly, I only skimmed some research this morning), undiagnosed//untreated Celiac leads to a higher risk of miscarriage. I didn't read anything that suggests that women who are aware that they have Celiac and thus avoid gluten have a higher risk of miscarriage. Can anyone point me towards research that suggests that even women with Celiac who avoid gluten have an elevated risk of miscarriage? Because clearly Lauren is aware and already does avoid gluten. So I currently see no reason to think she'd be more likely to have miscarriages than other women.

[AtlanticTug]

I had 2 miscarriages before my son, then 4 more before my daughter. They were both IVF babies as well. Of the 6 miscarriages, two were spontaneous pregnancies and 4 were via IVF and two of those 4 were with euploid (chromosomally normal) embryos.  Needless to say at this point we stopped and I had my tubes removed as I really was tired of being on the losing end of the statistics.

I have to say that the first was in many ways the most painful, even though it was "just" at 6.5 weeks. By the time the 6th one happened I was honestly like "oh, THIS again." It became the norm rather than the exception.

Suffice it to say, miscarriages are more common than people think BUT the statistics are also skewed because of people like me who are repeat victims, so to speak. That's why you will come across many, many women who have never had one while others might have had them in the double digits.

[SecularMusic]

On February 4, 2019 at 10:00 PM, fluffernutter said:

I'm in the middle of peri too. It's been 5 months since I've had a period. When it comes, it'll last about three weeks and be awful. But I still get wicked pms every month, whether the flow happens or not.  The heat flashes at night are awful. Hot, freezing, hot, freezing. And I have to have air blasting on me. I'm 46, this has been going on for maybe 4 years. 

I'm also in perimenopause. Until my early 40s I got my period every 4th Thursday around noon and never experienced PMS. 

Yearerday, I got it for the first time in months and I bled through my clothes which is extra embarrassing bc I work at a middle school where kids notice everything. Luckily, I was wearing a tunic sweater and no one noticed my pants.

i also have acne, cramps and I'm grouchy as heck. At least the hot flashes have stopped. Menopause can't come fast enough