Spanky Sproul 3: Rationality Is NOT in the Mix

[Howl]

Another thing to remember.  Lisa confirms that RC doesn't remember any of the things that happened -- not being drunk, or being pulled over or being in jail. This ties right in.   A sufficiently high blood alcohol level blocks the process of forming memories. That's an alcoholic blackout; this can also be referred to as alcohol-induced amnesia.  Alcoholics can go on benders of binge drinking for days and remember absolutely nothing about it -- where they were, who they were with, what they did, how much money they spent -- nothing. No memory was formed.

[Banyan]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

Alcoholics can be pretty crafty and sneaky at hiding evidence. 

That seems to be a major factor in why so many experts view alcoholism as a lifelong condition, even if the alcoholic hasn't consumed a drop in decades. The risk is extremely high an alcoholic can fall off the wagon at any time because they 're predisposed to it. It's the problem of "addictive personality." Those who've known Sproul personally can see it, including his penchant for denial and deception. For example Sproul claimed for years "I only drink in moderation" even though many people claim they've personally witnessed him stumbling around drunk at St. Peter Presbyterian Church parties. Rather than owning up to any of that he's probably living in denial of it to this day. Such denial only dramatically increases the likelihood he'll fall off the wagon. If he doesn't view his drinking as a problem what's to stop him from doing it again? The fear of getting caught? That's not nearly enough of a deterrent for an alcoholic.

Denial and deception are the common denominators with alcoholics. It starts with lying to themselves. "I can handle my liquor." People who can't "handle their liquor" are "weak." Sproul typified this for many years through example and teaching in his church that boozing is "manly." So it's not hard to imagine that Sproul now feels like an unmanly weakling. Someone with his mindset is the poorest possible candidate for long-term sobriety.

For the sake of his family and the safety of the public I wish him success with sobriety. But I also think it would be very foolish for his family to place any confidence in him. Trusting him to not be hiding a stash of booze would be naive. It's just way too easy to get away with, and as you've pointed out alcoholics are "pretty crafty." The problem I see isn't just Sproul's alcoholism but the entire family dynamic and a lifetime of Spanky being enabled by it. It starts with Sproul's family of origin and continues on through Lisa. They're all enablers living in denial. If Spanky keeps a stash and Lisa is lucky enough to come across it she'll probably do little more than pour it down the drain. She won't toss him out of her house and demand he seek professional treatment. She won't issue ultimatums. She'll cover it all up because what matters most of all is protecting her own public image. That's about as far as her "love" for Spanky extends -- the advancement of her image. Lisa is an opportunist who pursued Sproul because it furthered her personal agenda.  Kicking Spanky to the curb, even just temporarily should he need a long term treatment program, is therefore out of the question because it would tarnish the fairy tale image she spins of her perfect marriage. Doing what's best for her husband, should it in any way compromise her agenda, is out of the question.

[MamaJunebug]

4 hours ago, Banyan said:

Lisa is an opportunist who pursued Sproul because it furthered her personal agenda.

I don’t doubt this but I’m not aware of the history. Can anybody point me to some history? 

Observation #1: Lisa can not pick ‘em.

Observation 2, not to speak ill of the departed, but someone on the Spinderella Sproul website wrote that R.C. Sr. was also inclined to drink.  As these things tend to have some genetic component to them, I especially hope young Campbell S. with his depression history is being very careful about how he gets medicated.  Bless him. It’s a tough hand to be dealt. 

[Soulhuntress]

3 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I don’t doubt this but I’m not aware of the history. Can anybody point me to some history? 

Observation #1: Lisa can not pick ‘em.

Observation 2, not to speak ill of the departed, but someone on the Spinderella Sproul website wrote that R.C. Sr. was also inclined to drink.  As these things tend to have some genetic component to them, I especially hope young Campbell S. with his depression history is being very careful about how he gets medicated.  Bless him. It’s a tough hand to be dealt. 

Observation #1 absolutely. 

Observation #2 is possible and as MJB said alcoholism can be genetic.  

My thoughts are this:  

 

Frankie Schaeffer and Jr have a lot in common. Except Vesta is not a prolific writer like Edith was.  But both grew up in a goldfish bowl with famous fathers and both tried and failed miserably to fill daddy's shoes.  Frankie is still finding himself (I think he is atheist calling himself EO?) and Jr is worshipping the drink.  Sad endings.

What I kind of think of with Jr. is a Frankie Schaeffer with worse coping skills.   

Edited January 31, 2019 by Soulhuntress
Grammar like SOTDRT

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

16 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

 

Observation 2, not to speak ill of the departed, but someone on the Spinderella Sproul website wrote that R.C. Sr. was also inclined to drink.  As these things tend to have some genetic component to them, I especially hope young Campbell S. with his depression history is being very careful about how he gets medicated.  Bless him. It’s a tough hand to be dealt. 

I’d love to know where they picked up that info. I’m pretty sure senior did not drink, out of respect for other people’s sensitivities or something. 

 

There’s an anecdote about a waitress in this article. He tells that story in a lecture and says that he wanted to order a scotch after the lady said none of them would be drinking. But I’m almost positive he goes on to say that the only reason he didn’t is that he regularly abstains. 

https://www.ligonier.org/blog/2010-ligonier-pastors-conference-rc-sproul-viii/

Edited January 31, 2019 by JemimaPuddle-Duck
Add info

[Banyan]

On 1/30/2019 at 8:44 AM, Howl said:

One key thing to remember is that he was this drunk BEFORE LUNCH. 

I'm now having some difficulty remembering where this information came from. Was it from Schmoopy/Lisa? The reason I ask is if this is true then it appears Spanky had been drunk all day. He wasn't pulled over until around 8:30 that evening.

Quote

“about 8:28 p.m. on Nov. 29, Allen County Police Officer Paul Heffner observed the former minister driving left of the center line, failed to maintain his lane, drove off the roadway, struck a curb and was weaving.”  Christian News Network

Then again there's always the possibility he'd been drunk for several days.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Banyan

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I’d love to know where they picked up that info. I’m pretty sure senior did not drink, out of respect for other people’s sensitivities or something. 

 

There’s an anecdote about a waitress in this article. He tells that story in a lecture and says that he wanted to order a scotch after the lady said none of them would be drinking. But I’m almost positive he goes on to say that the only reason he didn’t is that he regularly abstains. 

https://www.ligonier.org/blog/2010-ligonier-pastors-conference-rc-sproul-viii/

Hi, @JemimaPuddle-Duck.  I didn’t find Sr.(RIP) declaring himself an abstained in the anecdote, which I hope I’m hiding behind a spoiler here as it’s lengthy. 

Spoiler

 

Fifty years ago, evangelicalism was plagued by a legalism that said you don’t dance, drink, smoke, go to movies, play cards and so forth. Though things have improved on this front, this was such a matter for many evangelicals that one’s entire spirituality and Christian profession was to be judged by conformity to these stipulations. But you cannot find any explicit laws about these things in Scripture. As an example of this legalism, I remember an occasion on which a woman took several of us out for dinner. We were all Christians, and when the waitress showed up to take our drink order, our hostess immediately chimed in and told the waitress that nobody would be drinking alcohol since we were Christians and Christians do not drink alcoholic beverages. I was embarrassed for that waitress, for she had been rebuked and because her idea of a Christian was now that a Christian is someone who would never take a strong drink. But Paul said the kingdom is not a matter of eating and drinking.

How many Christians have been taught that it is sinful to do things that God has not declared sinful? They have been told that some matters indifferent are actually not indifferent.

Dealing with Weaker Brothers 

Here is the basic issue. If I believe it is a sin to drink alcohol and I drink alcohol, then I have committed a sin. This is not because it is sin itself to drink alcohol but because it is wrong to consciously do what we consider to be a sin. In willingly acting to break what we think is God’s law, we show forth a rebellious Spirit. We must therefore be careful when it comes to judging the behavior of others on matters indifferent because we are not all at the same level of understanding. 

 

I’ll find the Spinderella passage where the writer says Sr. drank. I do not remember that he said it was to excess and I certainly tried my best not to give that impression in my post above. I only meant to observe that Spanky wasn’t the first in his line to enjoy liquor and that was all to the point of hoping that son Campbell’s depression is being responsibly treated.

[MamaJunebug]

20 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I don’t doubt this but I’m not aware of the history. Can anybody point me to some history? 

Observation #1: Lisa can not pick ‘em.

Observation 2, not to speak ill of the departed, but someone on the Spinderella Sproul website wrote that R.C. Sr. was also inclined to drink.  As these things tend to have some genetic component to them, I especially hope young Campbell S. with his depression history is being very careful about how he gets medicated.  Bless him. It’s a tough hand to be dealt. 

Ok, yes, I’m quoting myself. BigDaddyJunebug would be mortified. 

But here’s why. I found the page on which someone mentions both of the RC’s drinking. To my shame, it’s an anonymous responder who doesn’t even get Vesta Sproul’s name right. 

The anonymous one accuses both of them of heavy drinking (my paraphrase).  It’s the last response on http://rc-sproul-jr.blogspot.com/2006/10/rc-sproul-jrs-ligonier-tales-back-by.html?m=1

I wrote my initial post just intending to say, “Spanky’s dad reportedly drank alcoholic beverages, so Spanky’s use didn’t come out of nowhere and I hope his son avoids using or over-using as a person with depression.”  

I had no intention at all of saying that the departed had a problem with drinking.  I apologize for any implication to that effect.

In short, I shouldn’t have written, “was also inclined to drink.”  

I do sincerely apologize. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by MamaJunebug

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

I'm now having some difficulty remembering where this information came from. Was it from Schmoopy/Lisa? 

Lisa wrote it on her blog.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

I'm now having some difficulty remembering where this information came from. Was it from Schmoopy/Lisa? The reason I ask is if this is true then it appears Spanky had been drunk all day. He wasn't pulled over until around 8:30 that evening.

Yes, I'm confused about why people are assuming he was drunk before lunch too.

47 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Lisa wrote it on her blog.

Actually, not.

Here is what Her Wordiness said again.  My bolding.

Quote

The night we arrived my friend had met us and she took me to do my returns from the wedding, while my husband took the car for an oil change and then to pack a few things up from my kitchen, getting ready to leave early the next morning. We were going to pick up my husband for dinner, but instead I had texted him to see if he could just meet us at the restaurant. He said to just text him to let him know when. I shot him a text and he said he was on his way. He was familiar with the restaurant -  it was close to home, where we had our first date. Twenty minutes went by and he wasn’t there. My friend and I had ordered appetizers so they would be on the table when he and the boys arrived. But they never did. 

I began to feel anxious. Internally thinking, “He should have been here by now.” Where is he?”  Why isn’t he answering his phone?” Forty-five minutes later the sheriff’s department called my cell phone. Momentary terror struck my heart. I answered the call and the dispatch wanted to know who would be driving my identified vehicle. I told him it would be my husband and my two sons would be with him. I was waiting for their arrival. They said he was nowhere near the restaurant and moreover had a blown tire, was driving slowly,  bumping guard rails and not responding to sirens. They asked if I knew any reason if he could be impaired. I knew he was on meds for his blood pressure, but nothing else- and no reason why he would be impaired. They asked for his cell and told me to stay put until I heard back from them. Time seemed to stand still. I waited and wondered what in the world could have happened and how in the world did he end up where the sheriff reported they were following him. Thirty minutes later or so they called back and told me that they got him to respond. They told me he was intoxicated and being put under arrest. My car was undrivable and being impounded. They told me the sheriffs had my sons and where to pick them up.  Swiftly, my girlfriend and I left and headed to get my sons. We passed my vehicle on the highway as it was being put on the wrecker bed. We pulled over and the sheriff said I could not get anything out of it until the next day. We went on to get the boys. The two sheriffs had taken great care of the boys, giving them gifts galore to entertain them. By this time hours had passed and the boys still had not eaten. We got food and tried to get the story out of them. 

My friend dropped me and the boys at home. I got them to bed and said prayers thanking God for preserving their lives. I then had to call my new in-laws. All were shocked and apologized over and over. I could not sleep. 

This is consistent with the police reports that he was pulled over at “about 8:28 p.m. on Nov. 29."

So they arrived together sometime during the afternoon.  Precious, according to Lisa, stone cold sober.  She went to run some errands with the friend.  Junior went to get an oil change for the car and to pack a few things up with the boys, but instead slugged back enough drink in a couple of hours to be black-out drunk by 8:30 pm. 

This story doesn't make sense.

And I'm a bit surprised that with all the worry and panic, Spanky under arrest, and the boys at the Sheriff's office, she thought it important to pull over and try to get her things out of the disabled and impounded car.  But that is just me.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

Ok, yes, I’m quoting myself. BigDaddyJunebug would be mortified. 

But here’s why. I found the page on which someone mentions both of the RC’s drinking. To my shame, it’s an anonymous responder who doesn’t even get Vesta Sproul’s name right. 

The anonymous one accuses both of them of heavy drinking (my paraphrase).  It’s the last response on http://rc-sproul-jr.blogspot.com/2006/10/rc-sproul-jrs-ligonier-tales-back-by.html?m=1

I wrote my initial post just intending to say, “Spanky’s dad reportedly drank alcoholic beverages, so Spanky’s use didn’t come out of nowhere and I hope his son avoids using or over-using as a person with depression.”  

Thanks for the link.  It sounds as though that is where we found "Precious" too.

 Here's the quote from anonymous, FWIW.  I agree it doesn't sound credible for the reasons you say.

Quote

Anonymous5:11 PM

I attended seminary with Jr. when Dad was teaching at RTS. Both were over the top, heavy drinkers, and very full of themselves. The first semester we lost 20 guys who were so put off by Daddy and Jr. picking students out and tearing them down in front of the class. 
His Mom, Vida, was no prize either. 
My young wife used to attend a few of my classes with me. At the time Jr. was unmarried and although he knew that she was my wife, he came on to her more than once. 

I'm not surprised at what happened, nor am I surprised that Daddy is passing on "The Family Business" to his kid.

I think there is a big difference between RC Senior saying that banning all alcohol was legalism and assuming that he drank to excess himself.

And I remember a video of Junior a while ago in the Highland days, when he was preachifying and slurring his words.  Obviously pissed as the average newt.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Palimpsest
Additional thought

[MamaJunebug]

59 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Thanks for the link.  It sounds as though that is where we found "Precious" too.

 Here's the quote from anonymous, FWIW.  I agree it doesn't sound credible for the reasons you say.

I think there is a big difference between RC Senior saying that banning all alcohol was legalism and assuming that he drank to excess himself.

And I remember a video of Junior a while ago in the Highland days, when he was preachifying and slurring his words.  Obviously pissed as the average newt.

Slurring indeed - words that barely made up coherent sentences.  Dude has needed serious help for a long, long time. 

[Howl]

Sorry for the inconsistency.  I thought that Lisa in her more recent post said they were waiting for RC to join them for lunch.  

Whichever it was, he was utterly pissed.  I just don't see how Lisa could have missed the drinking issues. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Quote

 Precious, according to Lisa, stone cold sober.  

It's not outside the realm of possibility that she truly believed he was sober. Denial can be powerful, and alcoholics can be excellent at hiding their addiction. But I think it's more of a case of "there are none so blind as those who will not see."

[Banyan]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I shot him a text and he said he was on his way. He was familiar with the restaurant -  it was close to home, where we had our first date. Twenty minutes went by and he wasn’t there.

I think it'd be reasonable to put the time frame of this around 6:00 - 7:30 pm. As of the time Lisa texted Spanky to join them for dinner he presumably wasn't drunk. Or at least he was still lucid enough to be capable of texting or answering his phone. But rather than meeting his wife for supper as he promised he stopped off somewhere to pound down multiple drinks, at least enough to get his BAC up to .175. According to this chart that means he downed 7-8 drinks, probably in under an hour, two at the most.

This raises another interesting issue. He had the two children with him. Did he run into a liquor store and buy a bottle of whiskey, a couple six packs of beer, etc.? Did he drink it in the car with the boys right there? Or did he stop into a saloon and leave the boys in the parking lot while he pounded down a half dozen or more drinks?

Any way you slice it this is a horrible and incredibly selfish man.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

11 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Hi, @JemimaPuddle-Duck.  I didn’t find Sr.(RIP) declaring himself an abstained in the anecdote,

Sorry my words weren’t clear! No, he doesn’t say that in the article; he tells the same story during an audio lecture in which I recall him mentioning he doesn’t drink, but was tempted to order a scotch just because he was so irritated by the woman’s declaration. It’s possible I’m wrong. But I’d eat my hat if he had a drinking problem. 

[Howl]

Parts of the Spanky saga have sparked a lot of reflection back to the history of alcoholism on my dad's side of the family.  It's ancient history now that I'm in my 70s, but still a little startling to me now that I'm laying it out. It's a grim history, but there might be something in here that some of y'all might find useful. 

As my mom became more educated about alcoholism, especially after she left my dad after I went off to college, she was convinced that part of my dad's alcoholism was to self medicate for depression/mental illness. 

Of my dad's 10 siblings, at least 5 of the men were alcoholic and among those 5, there were two suicides.  Of those two suicides,  one always had "emotional problems" and one was considered an "alcoholic" suicide, which I think meant he was drinking heavily at the time he took his own life in his early 40s.  Also, the brothers were career military at a time when excessive drinking was practically mandatory and the NCO club was always right there on base serving up cheap alcohol. 

Now, for genetics! And family trees!  The Irish grandfather (my dad's dad) who I never knew because he died young of an alcohol related issue, was an alcoholic.  His mother (my great grandmother) converted to Mormonism in Ireland and my mom was pretty sure that the great grandmother converted to Mormonism because Mormons don't drink, which, considering, is a reasonable assumption. 

The great grandfather and my grandfather (age 16) emigrated from Ireland to the US to check things out before the great grandmother and the five daughters came over.  Mormonism never took with my grandfather, who joined the Army at 16 and stayed a nominal Roman Catholic, but his five sisters all became Mormons of varying degrees.  So, in summary, alcoholic great grandfather, grandfather and father and a sober great grandmother who converted to another religion for relief. 

On to genetics! When I had a brush with cancer a bit over 20 years ago, the oncology practice that I went to had an amazing nutrition guy.  When I consulted with him and described my family history on my dad's side of the family (Irish alcoholics) and my dietary preferences (carbs and SUGAR) and weird reaction to alcohol, he told me that almost certainly I had some type of flaw in the methylation cycle. 

I can get totally drunk on half a can of beer and have a raging hangover the next day; I just cannot tolerate any type of alcohol.  The nutrition guy told me that people with methylation issues like mine typically drink to excess or totally abstain, depending on the body's response. Almost certainly the same metabolic flaw contributed to high rate of alcoholism on my dad's side of the family.  Taking the 23andMe DNA test recently confirmed I do have methylation cycle flaws that the nutritionist speculated were present. 

So back to Spanky.  What resonated was the comment that RC Jr. had been depressed for most of his adult life.  Plus, RC has the Scots/Irish genetic inheritance. 

 I don't feel bad about idle speculation, since that's what we do on fj.  So, based on  how genetics/alcoholism/mental illness played out in my father's family, I'm wondering about the possibility that RCJr.  has a genetic predisposition to alcoholism and also "self medicated" with alcohol to deal with underlying depression. 

Lisa's a nutritionist; presumably she has enough professional chops to feed RC great  food and vitamins in the right, absorbable form to get him healthy and perhaps RC is taking medication to help with the depression.  Maybe he really is feeling good for the first time in a long time.  

IIRC, Lisa referenced that RC did some residential rehab right after his arrest; does anyone know or recall how long that lasted?  

My mom's side of the family is German, primarily from the Alsace-Lorraine area; we all seem to be natural teetotalers with zero interest in alcohol.  I'm so grateful that my sibs and I take after this side of the family and have no addictive tendencies! 

[Banyan]

30 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'm wondering about the possibility that RCJr.  has a genetic predisposition to alcoholism and also "self medicated" with alcohol to deal with underlying depression.

I found an interesting comment on the Spinderella blog along the same lines. So you're not the only one who's wondered about this.  The Irish and Scots do have a reputation for heavy drinking, and it's not just myth and lore. They're quite proud of their heavy drinking. You can find it as a recurring theme in Irish and Scottish "celtic" folk music and poetry. They quite literally celebrate drunkenness. Not good.

That's the thing that bothers me the most with Spanky-Dranky. Not just that he revels in his drink like the stereotypical Irishman but that he did it as a prominent clergyman. He used his influence as a pastor and his platform within Ligonier Ministries to push his agenda of heavy drinking under the cover of "Christian liberty." With reckless abandon he actively encouraged his fan base to "drink well" when a good many of them, because of family history, genetic predisposition, etc., should have been encouraged to abstain. He paved the path to hell for his followers, destroying many lives.

[MamaJunebug]

6 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Sorry my words weren’t clear! No, he doesn’t say that in the article; he tells the same story during an audio lecture in which I recall him mentioning he doesn’t drink, but was tempted to order a scotch just because he was so irritated by the woman’s declaration. It’s possible I’m wrong. But I’d eat my hat if he had a drinking problem. 

Ah, I see!  I’m glad you responded because I never wanted to say he had a problem, just that he did drink.  

[refugee]

On 1/31/2019 at 1:55 PM, Palimpsest said:

(Quoting Lisa) I began to feel anxious. Internally thinking, “He should have been here by now.” Where is he?”  Why isn’t he answering his phone?” Forty-five minutes later the sheriff’s department called my cell phone. Momentary terror struck my heart. I answered the call and the dispatch wanted to know who would be driving my identified vehicle. I told him it would be my husband and my two sons would be with him. I was waiting for their arrival. They said he was nowhere near the restaurant and moreover had a blown tire, was driving slowly,  bumping guard rails and not responding to sirens.

Wait, what? The sheriff called her out of the blue to ask who was driving the car? How would they know what cell phone number to call?

I’m confused. I even read it twice to see if she’d called the sheriff first because she was worried about her husband being seriously overdue. But there’s nothing like that.

Is this a thing? Law enforcement has cell phone numbers that are tied to cars’ license plates, or something?

And he was driving Lisa’s car?

On 2/1/2019 at 5:34 AM, Howl said:

Lisa's a nutritionist; presumably she has enough professional chops to feed RC great  food and vitamins in the right, absorbable form to get him healthy and perhaps RC is taking medication to help with the depression.  Maybe he really is feeling good for the first time in a long time.  

But is she really a nutritionist? I have the impression (unless I’m mixing her up with another fundie, which is possible) that she’s a “trim healthy mama” consultant, which I consider a nutritional fad—and a fundie one at that—rather than an accredited academic certification.

Edited February 2, 2019 by refugee
“Helpful” autocorrect

[Bethella]

7 hours ago, refugee said:

Wait, what? The sheriff called her out of the blue to ask who was driving the car? How would they know what cell phone number to call?

I’m confused. I even read it twice to see if she’d called the sheriff first because she was worried about her husband being seriously overdue. But there’s nothing like that.

Is this a thing? Law enforcement has cell phone numbers that are tied to cars’ license plates, or something?

And he was driving Lisa’s car?

I know they get a bunch of information when they look up the license plate, although I don't know for sure that it includes cellphone numbers. But they could probably look it up pretty easily online if not through an official database.

[Kylolo]

8 hours ago, refugee said:

 

But is she really a nutritionist? I have the impression (unless I’m mixing her up with another fundie, which is possible) that she’s a “trim healthy mama” consultant, which I consider a nutritional fad—and a fundie one at that—rather than an accredited academic certification.

In this case, she is both. Once upon a time I found her on a hospital website listed as a dietician, I haven’t looked in a long time. 

As we know from Gwen Shamblin, dieticians aren’t immune from crazy religiosity (ETA or dietary fads)...or delusions of grandeur. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Kylolo

[Howl]

On 1/31/2019 at 6:19 PM, Banyan said:

Or at least he was still lucid enough to be capable of texting or answering his phone.

RC could be and likely is what's called a high-functioning alcoholic (google it).  Drinking up a storm all day everyday, but can still function and address daily tasks after drinking enough alcohol to put most people under a table.  How RC Jr. ended up staggering, shit-faced drunk at the end of that particular day is anyone's guess.  Maybe he'd been sober for awhile trying to impress Lisa and lost the battle on that particular day.  A sober stretch would have "impaired" his ultimate alcohol tolerance.  

For example, Amy Winehouse died of alcohol poisoning.   After a sober stint in rehab, her body could no longer tolerate the amount of alcohol she imbibed. 

Also, if he was drinking something like vodka during the day, there's no tell tale odor. 

Interesting that my city has founded a place where intoxicated people (who aren't driving drunk or threatening someone) can go to sober up, rather than being arrested and put in jail or taken to the ER: soberingcenter.org

EMS and/or the police are the only ones who can refer someone.  

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Howl

[AnnaSofia]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:31 PM, refugee said:

But is she really a nutritionist? I have the impression (unless I’m mixing her up with another fundie, which is possible) that she’s a “trim healthy mama” consultant, which I consider a nutritional fad—and a fundie one at that—rather than an accredited academic certification.

She's listed an a Dietitian on her old, pre-Spanky Linkedin, but the only thing under "experience" is her ex-husband David's practice.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-porter-ringel-b8140211

David, as we know, ended up arrested on conspiracy to deal in a controlled substance (he ultimately pleaded guilty to one count of forgery and got off relatively lightly).

She also does not list herself as a "Certified Dietitian", which seems to be an important distinction. From the State of Indiana website:

"Please note that certification for a dietitian in Indiana is not mandatory. It is a title protection for individuals who wish to use the title "Certified Dietitian" or the credentials "C.D.".  You may practice dietetics / nutrition therapy services without state certification but cannot call yourself a "Certified Dietitian" unless you are certified with this state. A dietitian registered by the commission on dietetic registration may use the title “registered dietitian” and the designation “RD” but may not profess to be a certified dietitian without being certified by the Board."

https://www.in.gov/pla/2412.htm

Her Linkedin lists University of Dayton under "Education", but no specifics.

I'd bet $20 and your pick of Darby's Dresses that Lisa's only qualification as a dietitian is that she proclaimed herself to be one.

[Soulhuntress]

2 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

She's listed an a Dietitian on her old, pre-Spanky Linkedin, but the only thing under "experience" is her ex-husband David's practice.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-porter-ringel-b8140211

David, as we know, ended up arrested on conspiracy to deal in a controlled substance (he ultimately pleaded guilty to one count of forgery and got off relatively lightly).

She also does not list herself as a "Certified Dietitian", which seems to be an important distinction. From the State of Indiana website:

"Please note that certification for a dietitian in Indiana is not mandatory. It is a title protection for individuals who wish to use the title "Certified Dietitian" or the credentials "C.D.".  You may practice dietetics / nutrition therapy services without state certification but cannot call yourself a "Certified Dietitian" unless you are certified with this state. A dietitian registered by the commission on dietetic registration may use the title “registered dietitian” and the designation “RD” but may not profess to be a certified dietitian without being certified by the Board."

https://www.in.gov/pla/2412.htm

Her Linkedin lists University of Dayton under "Education", but no specifics.

I'd bet $20 and your pick of Darby's Dresses that Lisa's only qualification as a dietitian is that she proclaimed herself to be one.

No wonder she is a THM consultant.