Spanky Sproul 3: Rationality Is NOT in the Mix

[bea]

I’m going to take a huuuuge leap and guess that putting a “publication” on Christian marriage as a feature of his architecture resume is not helping the job search.

[seraaa]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:59 PM, Flyinthesoup said:

I was going to ask the same thing, I see it's been answered!  I had no clue!

Very informative, thank you.  I did not know this.

This is also an abbreviation for the Society of St. Vincent de Paul - which is a charity - so I was very confused for a moment! 

I hadn't heard of that particular trad organisation either. It is interesting 

[DomWackTroll]

"The world" is being mean to them again. 

 

[bea]

Also they’re the same person (RC-Lisa?) and somebody needs to fine-tune their photo editing skills. Damn.

[Lisafer]

18 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

"The world" is being mean to them again. 

 

My first impression was that RC was wearing a lace sweater...

[DomWackTroll]

2 hours ago, Lisafer said:

My first impression was that RC was wearing a lace sweater...

Me, too. Well, Lisa did teach him about "beautiful brides" and all. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On 1/24/2019 at 10:56 AM, mountaineer said:

Anyone, yes anyone could get a DUI? Well, yes, if by anyone you mean anyone who drinks to the point of diminished capacity and then gets behind the wheel.  That's kind of the point. It's not like DUI's are handed out arbitrarily, and it's not like most people consider it a no-big-deal infraction like speeding a little.  Are you insinuating that most people drive children around while drunk and he was just one of the unlucky ones to get stopped that particular night?

This was back a few pages, but I just wanted to make a quick point about DUIs. Most people who get a DUI are not driving drunk for the first time in their life. In an article titled "11 Facts About Driving Under the Influence, I found this lovely fact:

Quote

On average, a drunk driver will drive 80 times under the influence before their first arrest.[2]

I've heard lower numbers from other sources, but the fact is, people who get caught driving drunk aren't usually poor innocent little lambs who have never, ever driven after drinking before.

[LydiaAnn]

1) Um...so that post led me to her Twitter account:

"Blessed wife of RC Sproul Jr. Mom. Grandma. Dietitian. Founder of The Well Nourished Life. Founder of The Purpose Driven Wife. Certified THM Lifestyle Coach"

2)  ...which led me to her Pinterest account: 

"Christ Follower. Blessed wife of RC Sproul Jr. Mother of 13: Five born of my womb, five born of my heart and four gifted by marriage. Dietitian. Author/Writer" (yes, she added up the numbers wrong....LOL)

3) ...which led me to her website:

"Lisa C. Sproul,  blessed and devoted wife to RC Sproul Jr. Mother of 13: Five born in my womb, four born in my heart, and four gifted by marriage. Grandmother of eight. Dietitian. Author/Writer. Founder of The Purpose Driven Wife and Wellness Solutions: Clinical Nutritional Therapy for a Better You."

4) ...which led me to her Instagram account: 

"Follower of Christ. Wife of RC Sproul Jr. Mom of 9. Grandma of 5. Dietitian. Certified THM Lifestyle Coach. Founder of The Well Nourished Life."

5)...and then her other Facebook page  (The Well Nourished Life):

"Hi, I’m Lisa Sproul and I want you to join The Well Nourished Life. I am a Certified THM Lifestyle Coach and clinical nutritionist. I live in Northwest Indiana. Learn to fuel your body efficiently by eating clean, whole, nutrient dense, well-sourced, p"

6) ...and then under "Related Pages" I found ANOTHER Facebook page (Lisa's Hang-Ups):

"Name Brand Clothing: Handpicked, Fashions with Style & Flair. Everything $50 or less and shipping free in U.S."

As irritating AND annoying I find FLOTSH to be, she's at least trying to get bring  income into their home. 

Makes me wonder what Spanky is doing to contribute to the family income????

He can't still be on Ligonier's payroll, right?

 

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, LydiaAnn said:

"Christ Follower. Blessed wife of RC Sproul Jr. Mother of 13: Five born of my womb, five born of my heart and four gifted by marriage. Dietitian. Author/Writer" (yes, she added up the numbers wrong....LOL)

“New Mathematician who adds 5 children and 5 children and 4 children and gets 13—“

 

OOPS!  I just saw that @LydiaAnn mentioned that already. But I still think it’s worthbit to mention three times LydiaAnn’s mention +’my mention = 3 mentions in Lisamaths!

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, LydiaAnn said:

He can't still be on Ligonier's payroll, right?

According to Ligonier's 2016 IRS 990, he "left" the board on December 9, 2016, which would have been about two weeks after the arrest for felony DUI in IN.

According to Ligonier's 2017 IRS 990, he made $728 in royalties:

[BobJonesBabe]

3 hours ago, LydiaAnn said:

 

6) ...and then under "Related Pages" I found ANOTHER Facebook page (Lisa's Hang-Ups):

"Name Brand Clothing: Handpicked, Fashions with Style & Flair. Everything $50 or less and shipping free in U.S."

 

 

In which, she’s trying to be like Darby? Darby’s Dresses is actually quite successful, though...

[refugee]

15 hours ago, BobJonesBabe said:

In which, she’s trying to be like Darby? Darby’s Dresses is actually quite successful, though...

Looks like Darby's competition in more ways than one.

[LydiaAnn]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:13 AM, hoipolloi said:

According to Ligonier's 2016 IRS 990, he "left" the board on December 9, 2016, which would have been about two weeks after the arrest for felony DUI in IN.

According to Ligonier's 2017 IRS 990, he made $728 in royalties:

On the Ligonier Academy’s 990, I saw this; makes me curious to see the 2018 filings when they come out:

 

Spoiler

Edited January 30, 2019 by laPapessaGiovanna
Put image under spoiler

[BobJonesBabe]

2 hours ago, LydiaAnn said:

On the Ligonier Academy’s 990, I saw this; makes me curious to see the 2018 filings when they come out:



Those are some substantial incomes for people in "the ministry." Knowing they likely also received a lot of benefits elsewhere, too. Not necessarily a problem, but ?

[hoipolloi]

@LydiaAnn - thank you. Missed those details. 

 

 

[Howl]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:21 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

This was back a few pages, but I just wanted to make a quick point about DUIs. Most people who get a DUI are not driving drunk for the first time in their life.

Some thoughts about Spanky, alcoholism, co-dependency. 

Spanky is an experienced drinker/alcoholic. 

I cannot imagine how much he had to put away to be too drunk to stand up, veering and lurching down the Interstate at low speed with two kids in the car while his brand new and apparently clueless bride was waiting for him to show up for lunch.  One key thing to remember is that he was this drunk BEFORE LUNCH.  From the co-dependency perspective, I'm getting the vibe that Lisa thinks Spanky is the victim here. 

I've mentioned before, for the sake of the young children in that household, this is my wish. I truly hope that Spanky is sober and staying sober and that there is a peaceful nurturing environment for them.  I'm also hoping that, whatever her faults, Lisa has the nurturing mom thing down enough that the boys can feel safe and cared about.  She does seem responsible about the boys being brought up to grade on the homeschool front. I also hope they are part of a homeschool co-op and a decent church so the boys can make friends and socialize outside the home. 

I'm the child of an alcoholic.  For a time in my 30s, I regularly attended Al Anon meetings to address certain issues in my life related to that and because there was no chapter of Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA) in my little town.  

I listened to so many stories in Al Anon from people (mostly women) who realized that things could get impossibly worse when the alcoholic in their life got sober and all of the problems that were masked by alcohol came into sharp relief.  Lisa and Spanky seem to be riding the high of having found each other.  Who knows what lies ahead.  

 

[MamaJunebug]

@Howl wrote,

”I listened to so many stories in Al Anon from people (mostly women) who realized that things could get impossibly worse when the alcoholic in their life got sober and all of the problems that were masked by alcoholcame into sharp relief.”

Whoa! Blessed with no alkies in the family close enough to affect me directly, I never ever thought about this being the situation. But it makes total sense.  And there must be something in Spanks that I don’t see but Lisa does. I wonder if she had any idea, at all, she was getting herself into. Also wonder how long whatever it is that attracted her to him will continue to outweigh the things that are repulsive. 

[refugee]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

Spanky is an experienced drinker/alcoholic. 

I cannot imagine how much he had to put away to be too drunk to stand up, veering and lurching down the Interstate at low speed with two kids in the car while his brand new and apparently clueless bride was waiting for him to show up for lunch.  One key thing to remember is that he was this drunk BEFORE LUNCH.  From the co-dependency perspective, I'm getting the vibe that Lisa thinks Spanky is the victim here. 

It has been a really long time since I heard a lecture about alcoholism, so this info may be out of date. But I remember a couple things from that lecture that might apply here. Let me know if newer information contradicts any of this:

- A habitual drinker builds up a tolerance, needing more alcohol to get the same effect. Thus, you get the person who can drink everyone else under the table.

- At some point, however, (maybe due to liver damage? the body can't process the alcohol as well?) an alcoholic will reach a point where it actually takes less alcohol, sometimes significantly less, for them to become drunk.

- Alcoholism is a progression. (The lecturer drew a straight line on the board at some point in the lecture and kept referring to it throughout.) An alcoholic who stops drinking, who stays dry for any extended period, and then goes back to drinking doesn't go back to "Start" but picks up where they left off drinking. So if they're at the blackout stage on the timeline when they quit, then when they take up drinking again, they will find themselves at the same stage as where they left when they stopped drinking.

(Another edit: This is why they used to say it was such a bad idea for an alcoholic who hadn't been drinking in years to, say, drink a glass of champagne at a special occasion, like a kid's wedding reception. It would set them back on the same path they'd left, even years ago. Do they still say that?)

Thus, according to that long-ago lecture, RC2.0 could have done enough damage that it doesn't take much for him to become drunk. In addition, he may wake up in the morning feeling like hell and needing a little "hair of the dog" just to function and feel "normal". But if his tolerance disappears (as that lecture implied happens further down the timeline), then he's going to get drunk more quickly than he's used to. Considering the way alcohol interferes with judgement, it's probably not easy to drink "just so far and no further".

(just thinking out loud while waiting for the coffee to brew)

tldr; For Spanky to be falling-down drunk before lunch might not have taken much alcohol if he's far down the road in terms of alcoholism.

Edited January 30, 2019 by refugee
added a thought

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I'm the child of an alcoholic.  For a time in my 30s, I regularly attended Al Anon meetings to address certain issues in my life related to that and because there was no chapter of Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA) in my little town.  

I'm glad for you that you addressed those issues in your life.  My dad is the adult child of an alcoholic, but he's never really talked about his difficulties from growing up with an abusive alcoholic father with anyone, as far as I know. So, despite the fact that he is definitely not an alcoholic, I still grew up in a situation similar to growing up with an abusive alcoholic parent, because he didn't know how to handle the stresses of being a father in healthy ways. I guess I'm the adult grandchild of an alcoholic.

It is definitely possible to stop cycles of abuse and alcoholism in families, but it doesn't just happen by itself. I hope that all the adults Sproul "kids" are getting any help they need to deal with the aftermath of their upbringing. And I hope that the kids still living with Spanky and Lisa are safe and loved. (Fingers crossed. ?)

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

One key thing to remember is that he was this drunk BEFORE LUNCH.

The drunkard who hit my in-laws' parked vehicle, at 11:30 AM, had been drinking all night the night before, according to information that LEOs gathered as part of the prosecution. His fellow drinkers "were sure" he'd just sleep it off and not go anywhere but couldn't bothered to take his keys. He was known to be an alcoholic. Part of his ultimate 24-month sentence was supposed to be alcohol rehab. Not sure how that worked out for him because he died not long after being released from prison.

17 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

It is definitely possible to stop cycles of abuse and alcoholism in families, but it doesn't just happen by itself. I hope that all the adults Sproul "kids" are getting any help they need to deal with the aftermath of their upbringing. And I hope that the kids still living with Spanky and Lisa are safe and loved. (Fingers crossed. ?)

ITA. From your keyboard to the FSM's ears.

[CTRLZero]

16 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I guess I'm the adult grandchild of an alcoholic. 

It didn't occur to me until after @Howl posted, but my late father was the child of an alcoholic.  (My grandfather, who I don't remember, had "cirrhosis of the liver" as cause of death, so he must have been pretty bad.  There are family tales of the moonshine stills up in the foothills, etc.)  This may explain some of my dad's behaviors.  My dad rarely touched alcohol, but it certainly impacted his life.  Must think on this...

28 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

It is definitely possible to stop cycles of abuse and alcoholism in families, but it doesn't just happen by itself. I hope that all the adults Sproul "kids" are getting any help they need to deal with the aftermath of their upbringing. And I hope that the kids still living with Spanky and Lisa are safe and loved. (Fingers crossed. ?)

I absolutely hope so, too.

[refugee]

21 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

The drunkard who hit my in-laws' parked vehicle, at 11:30 AM, had been drinking all night the night before, according to information that LEOs gathered as part of the prosecution. His fellow drinkers "were sure" he'd just sleep it off and not go anywhere but couldn't bothered to take his keys. He was known to be an alcoholic. Part of his ultimate 24-month sentence was supposed to be alcohol rehab. Not sure how that worked out for him because he died not long after being released from prison.

Sounds like his fellow drinkers were also in denial. 

It can also work this way... an alcoholic relative would wake up feeling like crap after spouse left for work, have a morning wake-up "hair of the dog", and then go driving drunk to the liquor store at 9:00 a.m. to get more supply. The relative's spouse told me this *after* the family intervention and treatment program because they didn't know how bad things really were before the intervention took place. Alcoholics can be pretty crafty and sneaky at hiding evidence.

The relative remained sober after the treatment program, and I hope it continues.

[Banyan]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

- At some point, however, (maybe due to liver damage? the body can't process the alcohol as well?) an alcoholic will reach a point where it actually takes less alcohol, sometimes significantly less, for them to become drunk.

True, but if that were the case then it would mean Spanky's liver is pretty much destroyed with cirrhosis and he'd be on the liver transplant list. Given a lifetime of daily alcohol abuse and dependency that's certainly a possibility. What's even more likely though is that Spanky is/was a "late-stage alcoholic." By that stage the alcoholic is under the influence pretty much round the clock. They start drinking as soon as they wake up and sneak a periodic drink throughout the day. They have a nightcap or three before going to bed because they can't sleep without it. The effects from heavy drinking the night before haven't entirely worn off by the morning. Hangovers are less common for late-stage alcoholics because they've developed such a high tolerance. But what they are likely to experience in the morning is withdrawal symptoms, something that can feel a lot like a hangover. Their body craves more booze and they feel sick without it. So they resume drinking soon after waking up. If they're not careful about pacing themselves they may be drunk even before breakfast, if they bother eating breakfast at all, which many late-stage alcoholics don't. More than likely though they'll just have a few bloody Marys and call that breakfast. The lack of food on the stomach only increases the likelihood of being inebriated by mid-morning.

In all likelihood this is what happened to Spanky the morning he found himself in cuffs in the back seat of a police car. He threw back four or five Bloody Marys and called it breakfast. Then using all the logic his drunken brain could muster decided it was a good idea to meet his wife for lunch and take the kids along for the ride too. From all accounts he'd been drunk driving for many years. That was his "normal." It just took this long for him to get caught. It's amazing that he got away with it all these years and that he managed to not kill his own family or some other innocent family out on the road somewhere.

[refugee]

Dear god. I think, @Banyan, that you just described my relative before the intervention and treatment program. It sounds right, anyhow. That would make my relative a late-stage alcoholic?

Oh geez. I feel sick.

We were kids together. I mean, I know our extended family was really messed up, but this.

I'm so sad.

Edited January 30, 2019 by refugee

[hoipolloi]

19 minutes ago, Banyan said:

The effects from heavy drinking the night before haven't entirely worn off by the morning. Hangovers are less common for late-stage alcoholics because they've developed such a high tolerance. But what they are likely to experience in the morning is withdrawal symptoms, something that can feel a lot like a hangover. Their body craves more booze and they feel sick without it. So they resume drinking soon after waking up.

This is probably what happened with the guy who crashed into my in-laws' car. He wasn't hurt but was unable to exit his truck because the driver's side was smashed in. He was too far gone to negotiate climbing over the console & out the passenger's side. According to LEO reports, his truck reeked of alcohol & there were empty beer bottles all over it.

Though he was taken to the local hospital via ambulance -- apparently shouting & fighting all the way since the ambulance had to stop several times -- he somehow evaded having his blood alcohol tested. Despite that, the case against him was pretty strong. One of the eyewitnesses to the crash, BTW, was a retired NHL referee. After he gave direct testimony, the defense attorney cross-examined him for about five nano-seconds before calling it off!