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Spanky Sproul 3: Rationality Is NOT in the Mix


Coconut Flan

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56 minutes ago, 241 said:

Let me recap. I have no idea if he was “actually” diagnosed as an alcoholic. You may have assigned him that label, but I do not know if it is true diagnosis. Nor do you, since your stated comments are not established facts. I do know from personal circles he hasn’t drank since that night. I don’t live in his house, so I don’t know for absolute fact. As noted previous,  his whole family drinks socially and often. And anyone, yes anyone could have had a DUI if they drank and had kids in the car. No one is disputing what he did. It was a crime. You seem to have a propensity to die on this hill. Get over the hill to a new day and deal with other issues. ?

It seems like you must run in very close personal circles with the Sprouls if you have actual knowledge that he hasn't had any alcohol since his DUI arrest.  Given that, and the considerable amount of anecdotal information you've posted, it seems like it would take Darby 1.5 seconds to figure out who you are.  And if all these people at your church are so against Darby, why would she continue to go to church there? 

So to me, your whole story is either complete bullshit and you're trying to stir the pot over here or you are someone with a vendetta against Darby and the older Sproul kids who doesn't care if they know it's you spreading their family's dirty laundry.  Because if it were me, and I worshiped at the church with someone that I spread very personal information about in a very public forum, I would make damn sure that said person wouldn't be able to deduce it was me doing it.  And especially if I went to a church that practiced church discipline over their members that would probably result in you getting in "church trouble" with your elders and leadership.  

My guess is that you are someone with one sided knowledge of the situation, probably a friend of Lisa.  Or maybe one of her older children.  That's how you know all of that information about the conflict over Spanky being a grandfather first by Lisa's kids.  Because many of your anecdotes are so personal, it makes it highly unlikely that you came by that information simply by being in the right circles at your church.  

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22 minutes ago, 241 said:

This is all incorrect.

Well do feel free to correct me then. That's precisely what I'm looking for. Some clarification. I've asked you several questions seeking clarification, but rather than respond to my questions you ignore them and dismiss it all with a "this is all incorrect" wave of the hand. Try again.

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12 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Had James and Stacy McDonald not been such fanboys of RC Jr and been so eager to roll out the red carpet to him, ignoring the mountain of evidence that Sproul is and always has been a scandalous moral train wreck, then none of the blowback against your denom and your local church would have ever happened.

An additional irony here is that James McDonald was apparently removed from *his* pastorate in this "denomination" or possibly forced to resign. For that matter, there is no evidence that he ever completed a bona fide M.Div. or any other training in the ministry. 

Re: Spanky and alcoholism. What @laPapessaGiovanna said.

ETA: Re: James McDonald's departure from the ministry. He apparently left as part of a church disciplinary action.

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26 minutes ago, 241 said:

He was defrocked and reinstated. If your public records fail to show you that they are wrong. And Laurence Windham, who was also defrocked and reinstated is currently the pastor.

"Reinstated" by a different denomination, correct?  So, not reinstated at all.  If I get fired from Taco Bell and then find a job at Burger King, I have not been reinstated as an assembler of tacos.  I have been hired by a different company with different standards and procedures.

If you have documentation that the RPCGA has rescinded the censures of these fellas, or that they have somehow regained their ordination under that denomination, I would like to see it. 

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3 hours ago, 241 said:

Like you I am free to vent- unlike you I vent what I know to be true.

Oooh.  We just got told!

4 hours ago, 241 said:

The goal was to decide whether Lisa qualified as an elders wife- Jr and sr both fought presbytery, because they were not following the Westminster Confession- (by which we are ruled in our church govt. ) They were wanting and hoping to succeed at pushing their own agenda- not all were “in” but some held permanence views and were pushing their views not the confessional. Then all were shocked when RCJr requested his demital. Then rumors spread- two weeks after his approved resignation he married Lisa.

What is a demital?  Oh, never mind.

Junior left his church so he could marry a new bride.  And after all this - there was the Reformation! 

And I just remembered who Junior reminds me of - the likeness is extraordinary except for the kilt. 

"I'm Spanky the Sproul I am 
Spanky the Sproul I am, I am!
I got married to the divorcee next door
She's been married three times before
And every one was a loser (loser)
She wouldn't have a heathen to scam (no scam)
I'm her fourth old man, I'm Spanky
Spanky the Sproul I am!"

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Banyan said:

No need to be coy. It's all public information. The denomination you speak of is the Covenant Presbyterian Church.

I'm truly sorry your church is experiencing such blowback. Your problem is you're entirely focused on the unpleasantries of the blowback itself rather than considering it's underlying cause. Had James and Stacy McDonald not been such fanboys of RC Jr and been so eager to roll out the red carpet to him, ignoring the mountain of evidence that Sproul is and always has been a scandalous moral train wreck, then none of the blowback against your denom and your local church would have ever happened.

Your posts here clearly indicate your eagerness to ignore all that and shift the blame from the grown ups to the children. Good luck with that.

Not coy at all. I’ve stated directly and forwardly. I know which denomination I speak of, you did not ask the name of the denomination... so ?

Secondly, lets not get sidetracked with James and Stacey. 

Third, no blame “shifted” to said children. Adult children are responsible for adult decisions. Again, fruitless  debate. Point made previously. 

My post clearly indicated exposure of a source of lies. An adult Sproul descendent, who had created dissension in her church and among her peers. I spoke up. Just like you.

 

7 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Oooh.  We just got told!

Is that new news???

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51 minutes ago, Banyan said:

 After Sproul's defrocking by the RPCGA Doug Wilson (which isn't Presbyterian or even a denomination) appointed a "pastoral commission" and magically declared that RC Jr "shall not be required to fulfill the process for ordination and shall be considered ordained within the CREC accordingly." The CREC "reinstated" nothing. They just said he could serve in the CREC regardless of his being defrocked.

Oh for pete's sake.  I didn't know this part.  These men sure find themselves special, don't they?  Can you even imagine the hubris? 

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40 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

It seems like you must run in very close personal circles with the Sprouls if you have actual knowledge that he hasn't had any alcohol since his DUI arrest.  Given that, and the considerable amount of anecdotal information you've posted, it seems like it would take Darby 1.5 seconds to figure out who you are.  And if all these people at your church are so against Darby, why would she continue to go to church there?

I'm wondering the same thing.  If it's true that she's been "warned" by her elders to patch things up with Dad, and clearly has no interest in playing nice, what's church like for her?

241 says Darby arrived as a celebrity.  I'm sure that's true.  I'm even more sure that despite all of his toxic, awful behavior, Jr remains even more celebrated in this world.  So if the two are at odds, I'd venture to guess that the people in charge are mostly going to side with Jr because he's the bigger deal, in spite of the following: the defrocking, the "accidental" Ashley Madison account, the DUI, the out-of-denominational-bounds remarriage, the shitting all over Denise's memory and mistreatment of her mom.  Sorry, Darbs. That's patriarchy I guess.  Your appeal for the church to take sexual abuse seriously, and your years spent raising your siblings before Queen Lisa's arrival, and your grieving process-- that all means very little in the world you've been raised in, unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, 241 said:

Darby and I attend the same church,

Care to provide any proof of that?

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3 minutes ago, mountaineer said:

Sorry, Darbs. That's patriarchy I guess.  Your appeal for the church to take sexual abuse seriously, and your years spent raising your siblings before Queen Lisa's arrival, and your grieving process-- that all means very little in the world you've been raised in, unfortunately.

So true.  I know how hard a faith crisis can be and how it feels like you are losing this huge part of yourself; the very thing that's made you, you.  And for someone like Darby, who has a considerably large platform, it probably seems to her like she can use that platform to work and change the things that have caused her great personal harm.  One of the things about "the church" is that you can't change anything as an outsider because then your actions are seen as an attack on Jesus; basically Satan trying his best to destroy the good bible believing churches.  Even advocating for change within the confines of the church, I'm sure she gets a lot of push back and flack for bringing to light some of her grievances and past experiences of abuse.   I imagine it would be very lonely to be her sometimes. 

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1 hour ago, 241 said:

And Laurence Windham, who was also defrocked and reinstated is currently the pastor. To clear your doubt get facts.

After what I'd previously posted I'm amazed you'd bring up the name Laurence Windham. Perhaps you missed it? For your benefit I'll repost:

 

I've wondered for awhile if Spanky is some kind of sex addict. His signing up for that Ashley Madison account is a strong indicator. Then I ran across this comment about Sproul's best friend and co-pastor / co-drunkard Laurence Windham:

  Quote

At 4:40 PM, Anonymous Melanie said...

I'm pretty familiar with both Sproul Jr. and Laurence Windham. The comments I've seen here on your blog are true. One thing Saint Peter church folks assume is R.C. Jr didn't cheat on his late wife. Hopefully that's true. The same assumption shouldn't be made for Laurence Windham. It's an open secret around Bristol that Laurence Windham is a lecher. He haunts the local coffee shops and King's College to prey on young women. He hits on them with sleazy pickup lines and tries to groom them. Some of them are obviously underage. He often does it while wearing his priest's collar. The girls call him "that dirty old man." They're good about warning one another to stay clear, but tragically he's been successful with a few including some minors. I've known some of these girls personally and their stories are consistently disgusting. R.C. Sproul Jr. knows about it and has never done a thing to put a stop to it. Someone like Chris Hansen and Catch A Predator really needs to run a sting on this sleazy priest.

There's a disturbing pattern here. Sproul never held his sexual predator co-pastor accountable for preying on young women, even minor girls, though he knew it'd been going on for years. No surprise then that Sproul didn't hold Steven Sitler accountable for sexual predations he committed right in his own home. There's only one plausible explanation --  a man who isn't outraged by such things is himself a sexual deviant and degenerate.

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5 hours ago, 241 said:

Knowing this family personally they were “off” for a long time. Lisa is just someone to blame   “Blaming” seems to be the moto starting at the top of the food chain in this family or ministry.  There really isn’t a nice way to nuance bullying. According to EC & Darby,, Vesta has their back. She had been against them- but felt pressure of appearances and was afraid she would be looked at as rejecting her own grandkids after they got caught and were warned to keep it hush hush. EC is attending our church now too. She and her younger siblings were adopted by Lisa and according to EC, she and Maili had to give the court consent if they wanted to be adopted. They had a choice and they “chose” to  give consent and be adopted wanting Lisa to be there “mom” and Denise’s parents also consented. I know this for a fact. Both EC and Maili were “cut off” from their older siblings because they hated Lisa and were burdening their younger sisters with guilt, as though they had been disloyal. As much as ugly step-mother’s get a bad rap, Lisa has gotten it. EC said the younger boys do not remember Denise. They were 5 & just barely 2 when Denise died- she was dying when they chose to adopt- so she knew wasn’t going to live long- which kind of baffles me why you would adopt then.

 I followed the memorial on Denise’s page-ridiculous. No one wants to see all that drama. And Darby does admit it was her fathers memorial page he deleted and with her “genetic bullying” strategy admits how she got it resurrected. Her dad confronts her. Betty Lou starts tagging for people to come and fight for her- it’s like they are all 12yo. One thing I have to say a fight was breaking out! Everyone felt entitled to their opinions. 

So many layers here- Convoluted. Toxic. Layers.  

The story told by my father- an elder at our church, Heritage, was that Lisa was greatly accepted by both Vesta and R.C. Sr and thought the kids would adjust in time.

The biggest rumor that started came out of Darby’s role as her fathers assistant at the time. She had his password and was privy to his email. RCJR told his presbytery of his interest in Lisa. Due to the fact he was an ordained pastor, at that time, presbytery’s role was to approve that Lisa’s divorce was legitimate.  That’s where the mess came- they exploited the situation. They wanted to put Lisa through the grid. It backfired on them. The goal was to decide whether Lisa qualified as an elders wife- Jr and sr both fought presbytery, because they were not following the Westminster Confession- (by which we are ruled in our church govt. ) They were wanting and hoping to succeed at pushing their own agenda- not all were “in” but some held permanence views and were pushing their views not the confessional. Then all were shocked when RCJr requested his demital. Then rumors spread- two weeks after his approved resignation he married Lisa.

Darby, the ring leader, broken into her fathers email- because she knew his password, she forwarded herself her father’s private, presbytery minutes boastfully began to share a seven page report of the their preliminary thoughts- not approved judgements.  Darby shared it with me- I was one of the first she confided in. She shared it with several friends and family. She began her crusade against her father and his choice in a wife. War broke out. She wishes she could change it but refuses to stop. She has gone so far she now doesn’t want anyone to even mention her father to her. She’s getting counseling  outside our church.  I don’t have a stepparent- and don’t know how I’d handhelds it- but I would try not to destroy the chance to even try. 

Darby, a married women and her siblings began threatening Lisa. Darby boasted outrageously on private FB groups and I, among others here, have been privy to her one sided views.  Her fathers FB is blocked from the bigs and now family members according to Darby- and probably for good reason. I don’t care who it is- but if I was knowingly stalked or had my FB used for snark or pictures I would close down the option- ?

The truth is Darby is *outraged* her father has other kids in his life and grandchildren- but as she was counseled -it could have been different for her.  Darby shared that Lisa sent a hug box of wrapped presents for the boys from both of them and has sent presents during other holidays- but doesn’t want anyone knowing that or they will change “their mind” regarding Lisa. She’s outraged Lisa’s grandkids call RCJr grandpa.  

Several of the women from our church reached out to Lisa- I pknow of four. Four, who have had conversations with her via phone. Apologizing and embarrassed for the rumors. All have kept this from Darby.

I’m ashamed of my tribe- they are the epitome of what Christians are not. 

 

 

 

Lisa- get the hell off of here.

It’s SO obvious it’s you, it’s pathetic you’re still trying to post as if it’s not you.

I would think your time would be far better spent trying to find an actual paying job -for you and your narcissistic wreck of a husband. You know, so you could not have to squat in a foreclosed home. That NONE of you own an actual key to, btw. 

You are disgusting, simply disgusting for ranting and posting on here about DENISE’S children. Up to, and including what occurred on their mother’s memorial Facebook page. 

God help the boys and Maili -who have no choice but to be stuck with two delusional, narcissistic “parents”.  I would think the boys don’t know any better, but I’m sure Maili does....and my heart hurts for that poor child.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, punkiepie said:

It seems like you must run in very close personal circles with the Sprouls if you have actual knowledge that he hasn't had any alcohol since his DUI arrest.  Given that, and the considerable amount of anecdotal information you've posted, it seems like it would take Darby 1.5 seconds to figure out who you are.  And if all these people at your church are so against Darby, why would she continue to go to church there? 

So to me, your whole story is either complete bullshit and you're trying to stir the pot over here or you are someone with a vendetta against Darby and the older Sproul kids who doesn't care if they know it's you spreading their family's dirty laundry.  Because if it were me, and I worshiped at the church with someone that I spread very personal information about in a very public forum, I would make damn sure that said person wouldn't be able to deduce it was me doing it.  And especially if I went to a church that practiced church discipline over their members that would probably result in you getting in "church trouble" with your elders and leadership.  

My guess is that you are someone with one sided knowledge of the situation, probably a friend of Lisa.  Or maybe one of her older children.  That's how you know all of that information about the conflict over Spanky being a grandfather first by Lisa's kids.  Because many of your anecdotes are so personal, it makes it highly unlikely that you came by that information simply by being in the right circles at your church.  

No...241 is actually Lisa. 

Edited by laPapessaGiovanna
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1 hour ago, mountaineer said:

Oh for pete's sake.  I didn't know this part.  These men sure find themselves special, don't they?  Can you even imagine the hubris? 

I do believe "Hubris" is Doug Wilson's middle name. Just call him "Hubie" for short. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. :P:chi-yes:

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54 minutes ago, LydiaAnn said:

No...241 is actually Lisa.

Maybe it's her evil twin. No, wait... RC2.0's blushing bride is already the evil twin, evidently. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the grumbling and shrieking about publicly posting pictures of RC2.0 and Denise come directly from Her Highnessness and RC2.0 is simply trying to placate her. (I don't quite get why he would eliminate all evidence of his past life, otherwise. What did Denise ever do to him?)

Her quoted posts are reminiscent of Disney's Snow White (hint: she is not Snow White but one of the other characters). 

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1 hour ago, LydiaAnn said:

Lisa- get the hell off of here.

I'm not so convinced 241 is Lisa. Either way I wouldn't want to dissuade her from posting. Way too much entertainment value, not to mention all the clever and oh so creative adjective combinations.

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4 minutes ago, Banyan said:

I'm not so convinced 241 is Lisa.

Me neither.  I don't think Lisa knows enough doctrine to attempt to discuss the details of the defrocking and the denominational sleight-of-hand that got these guys back up in their respective pulpits.  Lisa will bash the kids and tout her looks, but I don't see her caring to bring the Westminster Confession or "permanence views" into the conversation.   Unless her headship is standing over her shoulder while she types.  Also possible.

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1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:
3 hours ago, 241 said:

Darby and I attend the same church,

Care to provide any proof of that?

I think there's logical proof to show they don't attend the same church. If they did 241 would be speaking to Darby directly about her concerns, not posting about it on a snark site. That's the Presbyterian way of doing things. You do know that don't you @241? Time to go review your Westminster Confession again. Oh, and there's that Matthew 18 thing too.

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12 minutes ago, Banyan said:

@241? Time to go review your Westminster Confession again. Oh, and there's that Matthew 18 thing too.

I think @241, has her own version of Matthew 18.  It is more like "go tell it on the mountain that the Sproul family has been fucked up by Lisa."

Here is my version for our numeral troll though:

15 Moreover if thy step-daughter or friend shall trespass against thee in thine own mind, go and tell her her fault between thee and her alone: if she shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy step-daughter or friend.

16 But if she will not hear thee, because thou art a vicious viper then take with thee one or two more who are actually unbiased, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established as the correct version of the truth not your malice.

17 And if she shall neglect to hear them, don't tell it unto Free Jinger: because although Free Jinger neglects to hear your lies, we will let you argue like a heathen gossip and a publican.  Until we get bored with playing with you.

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@241's longer posts remind me of content created by neural networks.  It's almost meaningful!  The sentences kinda sorta almost make sense, right?  But you put them together and it's just a crazy amalgamation of not-quite-right word combinations.  This is a classic hallmark of people trying not to sound like themselves.  Usually, this pattern of writing would make me guess, "Students trying to sound more educated than they are, by using words they don't quite understand," but... FJ is not a class, and we're not handing out grades.  Maybe it's a pride thing?

For those not familiar with neural networks, essentially it's when you teach a computer to "think" by exposing it to patterns and then asking it to come up with its own best effort.  You can participate in Google's drawing neural network here: https://quickdraw.withgoogle.com/

You can also read amusing names for guinea pigs, created by neural network, here: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/neural-network-generates-adorable-names-rescue-guinea-pigs-180963759/ 

See what I mean, though?  

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4 minutes ago, Pianokeeper said:

This is a classic hallmark of people trying not to sound like themselves. 

Or like the last version of themselves that visited FJ.  We didn't just have schmoopy, there was another rabid Lisa defender or two here too.

I think she sounds as though she is using a religious gobbledegook generator.

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/gobbledygook-generator.html

I just put in "Lisa is a liar" there and got:  We need to get on-message about our knowledge-based reciprocal alignment.

6 minutes ago, Pianokeeper said:

You can also read amusing names for guinea pigs, created by neural network, here: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/neural-network-generates-adorable-names-rescue-guinea-pigs-180963759/ 

And that is a magnificent rabbit hole.  Thanks!

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40 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

Maybe it's Meghan Markle!

Wait, what?

Nah, MM is still waaay too intimidated by Lisa's beauty. 

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Since I don't follow Darby, could someone please tell me, does she live in Virginia?  That's where Laurence Windham is the pastor.  So what would be the other church 241 mentioned?  241's story doesn't add up in my mind, at the moment.

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24 minutes ago, Flyinthesoup said:

Since I don't follow Darby, could someone please tell me, does she live in Virginia?  That's where Laurence Windham is the pastor.  So what would be the other church 241 mentioned?  241's story doesn't add up in my mind, at the moment.

Based on what 241 wrote, it took me about 3 minutes to find the church in question- which, given how easy it was, makes me even more suspicious. And Darby lives in TN. I have no idea where her place of worship is, but this is the one that 241 is writing about:

http://heritagecenterville.org/leadership/

 

 

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I believe Darby currently lives in Florida. I assume the church they're talking about would be Ascension Presbyterian, which is where Spanky was pastor after leaving Virginia, and prior to being kicked out due to the Ashley Madison scandal.

 

Edit: My post crossed with @punkiepie

My info could be out of date, if so, apologies!

Edited by AnnaSofia
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