Spanky Sproul 3: Rationality Is NOT in the Mix

[DomWackTroll]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

Not only did he foolishly choose his dad's profession he even foolishly chose to change his name from "Craig" to R.C. Sproul "Jr.", even though he and his dad don't share the same names.

Really? I didn't even know that! I just thought family and friends called him "Craig" because that was his middle name. 

[Banyan]

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

Really? I didn't even know that! I just thought family and friends called him "Craig" because that was his middle name. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pc2Za0u2c4&t=26m0s

 

[MamaJunebug]

22 minutes ago, Banyan said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pc2Za0u2c4&t=26m0s

 

.....people actually listened to that. Egads. 

Banyan, I’m impressed that you inserted that video clip cued up to the exact moment. Any secrets to how?? Also, thank you for it.  

[older than allosaurs]

This has been posted before, possibly by me, but it's time for a reprise. One way to show sincerity about one's status as an addict is to look clearly at what you said and did while under the influence and apologize to those you hurt thereby. Given his former role as a spiritual leader and master of the revels at Highlands, R.C. Jr. might want to start with this:

Quote

"I try, like most of us, not to be easily offended. I don't like the other idea of other people having to go about on pins and needles because of my weaknesses. But sometimes that's where we end up. We are, after all, all Christians here, and are called to bear one another's burdens. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. But we're not there yet. So here it is. Would you please, so as not to cause me to stumble, stop suggesting that it is wrong to drink alcohol in moderation, or that drinking alcohol in moderation somehow is a failure to love my brothers? Thanks ever so much."
Double, Bubble, Toil and Stumble, by RC Sproul Jr., circa 2005-- courtesy of Spinderella Sproul.

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Jellybean
Added quote box

[Banyan]

2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Banyan, I’m impressed that you inserted that video clip cued up to the exact moment.

http://youtubetime.com/

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, Banyan said:

http://youtubetime.com/

Kewl !!!!! Srsly, thank you so much! 

 

5 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

This has been posted before, possibly by me, but it's time for a reprise. One way to show sincerity about one's status as an addict is to look clearly at what you said and did while under the influence and apologize to those you hurt thereby. Given his former role as a spiritual leader and master of the revels at Highlands, R.C. Jr. might want to start with this:

"I try, like most of us, not to be easily offended. I don't like the other idea of other people having to go about on pins and needles because of my weaknesses. But sometimes that's where we end up. We are, after all, all Christians here, and are called to bear one another's burdens. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. But we're not there yet. So here it is. Would you please, so as not to cause me to stumble, stop suggesting that it is wrong to drink alcohol in moderation, or that drinking alcohol in moderation somehow is a failure to love my brothers? Thanks ever so much."
Double, Bubble, Toil and Stumble, by RC Sproul Jr., circa 2005-- courtesy of Spinderella Sproul.

My head hurts trying just to parse that. 

[ophelia]

21 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

I often listen to a Christian talk radio station for background while I crochet or cross-stitch.  Last night, I listened to a sermon by R.C. Sr.  He's still on, daily, more than a year after his passing, and probably will be for a long time to come.

It occurred to me that must just KILL Spanky's ego.  

That sounds so nice and cozy. Which Christian talk radio station are you listening to? 

[danvillebelle]

4 hours ago, ophelia said:

That sounds so nice and cozy. Which Christian talk radio station are you listening to? 

Just a local one that plays here in East Texas.  Some of the speakers I enjoy or can tolerate...sometimes I have to turn it off (or argue back at them). 

 

[Banyan]

15 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

"I try, like most of us, not to be easily offended. I don't like the other idea of other people having to go about on pins and needles because of my weaknesses. But sometimes that's where we end up. We are, after all, all Christians here, and are called to bear one another's burdens. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. But we're not there yet. So here it is. Would you please, so as not to cause me to stumble, stop suggesting that it is wrong to drink alcohol in moderation, or that drinking alcohol in moderation somehow is a failure to love my brothers? Thanks ever so much."
Double, Bubble, Toil and Stumble, by RC Sproul Jr., circa 2005-- courtesy of Spinderella Sproul.

The title of that Spinderella Sproul article is pretty funny,

Party On! (or you might cause RC Sproul Jr to stumble)

9 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

My head hurts trying just to parse that. 

Mine too. Typical RC Jr bollocks. Trying so hard to be clever but twisting up the bible to say something it's not saying at all. Reading that makes me wonder when Sproul will have to face taking a dose of his own medicine. As much as he's pressured people into drinking who knew abstaining was the right thing for them, and maybe even "stumbled" some because of it, I think this may be another one of those reap what you sow things where eventually someone pressures him into drinking again and he falls off the wagon. But it's all in the name of Christian liberty, don't ya know.

[stylites]

16 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

.....people actually listened to that. Egads. 

Banyan, I’m impressed that you inserted that video clip cued up to the exact moment. Any secrets to how?? Also, thank you for it.  

If you click on the timeline when a video plays, there's an option to 'copy at current time' or similar.

Sr was good in many ways, though his founding of an independent church when he was then part of the PCA is certainly an interesting move - nothing overly wrong with independent churches as such, but its strange to cleave to a particular tradition but baulk at the one thing that might offer oversight - among many other things.  I wonder if it allowed Jr to 'rationalize' his move to CREC and so on.

[refugee]

On 2/10/2019 at 4:36 PM, Banyan said:

Something is seriously amiss with the way his brain functions.

Well, he has spent years pickling it, after all.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On 2/10/2019 at 8:38 AM, DomWackTroll said:

“Marriage built on rebellion carries a penalty of bitterness and war. Marriage built upon the Rock is protected by God.”

https://www.facebook.com/132269124115308/photos/a.138257006849853/287863928555826/?type=3&theater

So, as a person without a Facebook account, I can't see anything at this address. Are there any useful quotes anyone can share?

[ophelia]

19 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Just a local one that plays here in East Texas.  Some of the speakers I enjoy or can tolerate...sometimes I have to turn it off (or argue back at them). 

 

Thank you, @danvillebelle.

If anybody can recommend a Christian radio station that isn't totally nuts and fundie, I'd appreciate it!

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

So, as a person without a Facebook account, I can't see anything at this address. Are there any useful quotes anyone can share?

Looks like Lisa or Spanky may have removed or hidden that FB entry -- can't see it on their timeline.

Maybe they replaced it with this gem:

[Howl]

The problem with repentance is that so many fundies use it as a way to not really come to terms with what they did, and gullible Xtians believe they are truly seeing a new man or woman. 

TheWartburgWatch.com is awash with these types -- the disgraced mega-church pastors who refuse the repentance process they themselves put in place and instead of taking a serious time out or quit the ministry over their transgressions, they start a new church and write books for income because it's what they do -- Mark Driscoll, Tullian Tchividjian et al.,  are you listening?  

[older than allosaurs]

What Howl said.

Because your past will for sure determine your future if you don't examine it and learn from it. That takes time and effort, preferably out of the public eye. Instead we keep seeing this closed loop where, if we don't extend instant forgiveness and trust, we are doubting the power of God.

[MamaJunebug]

13 hours ago, ophelia said:

Thank you, @danvillebelle.

If anybody can recommend a Christian radio station that isn't totally nuts and fundie, I'd appreciate it!

Here you go: I’m happy to recommend KFUO Lutheran Radio. 

KFUO Lutheran Radio

Most of the shows carry on the Old-Lutheran tradition of approaching laypeople as though they do have brains and will not be expected to leave them at the door. 

Some of the shows have a decidedly denominational bent, like “Concord Matters,” which droves into the ehy’s If the denomination’s doctrines. 

“Issues, Etc.,” is the one where you’re most likely to hear a solid dose of complementarianism.  I tune it in when I’m feeling too happy. (That’s a joke — mostly.)

Saturday mornings - and probably on-demand - there are children’s radio dramas that are produced by other entities (possibly Focus OTF, I really don’t know), but if you enjoy listening to stories acted out on radio, you’ll enjoy ‘em. They’re extremely well done. 

Some times “Issues” and some of the other shows explore heresies or deep theological divisions between Christian denominations. Those, I find interesting in a theology-wonk way. 

Happy listening!

Edited February 13, 2019 by MamaJunebug

[Maxwell]

4 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Saturday mornings - and probably on-demand - there are children’s radio dramas that are produced by other entities (possibly Focus OTF, I really don’t know), but if you enjoy listening to stories acted out on radio, you’ll enjoy ‘em. They’re extremely well done.

Their web site lists Adventures in Odyssy (Definately a Focus on the Family production) and Lamplighter Theater.  The Lamplighter Theater one concerns me -- it's run by a guy named Mark Hamby.  Lamplighter has taken the Vision Forum approach to literature -- find old books that are in the public domain, republish them & profit -- but have taken it a step further as well.  From their 'About' page:

 

Quote

Lamplighter books are edited within a Biblical theological framework to ensure that each story reflects the character of God and provides key Scriptures to be stored within the heart. The uniqueness of a Lamplighter book in contrast to other books with the same title is that they have been enhanced with helpful footnotes and woven with threads of Biblical truths that will be etched into an awakened moral conscience. These characteristics are what make our Lamplighter Collection so unique and highly valued.

 

That really bothers me. YMMV.

 

Also, be sure to check out the Lamplighter Guild.

https://www.lamplighterguild.com/

Seems awfully Vision Forum-ish to me... 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Maxwell
Form/From + link

[Lisafer]

@Maxwell If I was dead and gone and somebody edited my writings to be more "Godly," I'd freaking come back from the grave and haunt that person with a vengeance! 

Reminds me of a Christian art history book we had growing up that airbrushed Michelangelo's "David" so he had no penis. I kid you not.

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, Maxwell said:

Their web site lists Adventures in Odyssy (Definately a Focus on the Family production) and Lamplighter Theater.  The Lamplighter Theater one concerns me -- it's run by a guy named Mark Hamby.  Lamplighter has taken the Vision Forum approach to literature -- find old books that are in the public domain, republish them & profit -- but have taken it a step further as well.  From their 'About' page:

 

 

That really bothers me. YMMV.

 

Also, be sure to check out the Lamplighter Guild.

https://www.lamplighterguild.com/

Seems awfully Vision Forum-ish to me... 

Me too, but I’m easy (though not cheap!) on Saturday mornings before the good stuff comes on the NPR station here. ? Like I said, offer me great production values and a decent storyline and I’m listening.

Its also fun to recognize some of the Focus voice talent in other radio ads and the occasional cartoon.  Did I mention I’m a radio fan? 

[Soulhuntress]

$2500 for the seminar?  $1500 for Road Scholar with museum tours in LA.  Yeah I would rather do Road Scholar any day.  ❤️  Bucket list commences.

[Banyan]

21 hours ago, Howl said:

The problem with repentance is that so many fundies use it as a way to not really come to terms with what they did,

So true. The worst offenders are religious leaders and the worst harm comes through religious leaders. Hmm. I seem to recall Jesus having to confront the religious leaders of his day over the same things. They bully and guilt trip their followers over their sins, beating them down to keep them in submission and perpetual dependence on them. But when the leaders get caught out for sins even far worse (e.g. stealing church funds, tax fraud, trying to hook up with married women on adultery web sites, driving drunk with kids in the car, etc.) they "repent," claim God forgave them, and demand we do likewise. Sins that were once like scarlet are washed white as snow. It's like it never happened. Or worse yet they make a show of their "repentance," maybe even throw in a few theatrical tears. Who doesn't want to believe a guy who cries? In just a few short weeks it's, "Hallelujah! Thank you Jesus! I'm forgiven!" and right back to their pulpit they go like nothing ever happened! Jesus we are told forgave them so who are we to question it, let alone hold them accountable?

21 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

Because your past will for sure determine your future if you don't examine it and learn from it. That takes time and effort, preferably out of the public eye.

So true. RC Jr got defrocked over a decade ago for some really horrific things. But he "repented" so everything was instantly and magically okay! It was deemed unnecessary by his fellow defrocked pastor/elders and many of his congregant-enablers, not to mention Doug Wilson and the CREC, that he take some time off from "pastoring" to do some soul searching. His problem wasn't just a one-time sin but a years long pattern of spiritual abuse, drunkenness, and the like. Having his enablers put him right back in the pulpit only validated in his mind that he'd been right all the time. So he kicked his "church discipline" into high gear, demanding even more submission from his congregants, excommunicating and ordering the shunning of any families who wouldn't bow down.

RC Jr's problem isn't that he periodically falls into sin. Everyone does that and everyone can be forgiven, at least if they're genuinely sorry. No, RC Jr's problem is his rotten character. It goes to the very core of who he is. It's impossible to change rotten character through a single act of contrition, especially when that contrition is just a sham like his Ashley Madison "confession" proved to be. He "confessed" only because he knew he was about to be outed anyway (better to feign repentance and spin the story so it's personally advantageous). As he'd so often done before he took a scandal of his own making and turned it into a way of garnering sympathy and making bank off gullible Christians. To make a good show of it he even took a leave of absence from Ligonier -- with full pay. In other words Ligonier rewarded him with a paid vacation.

Sproul has all the traits of a sociopath and a narcissist. He needs professional mental health care. But that will never happen because psychology is a bad word in his circles.

[mountaineer]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

No, RC Jr's problem is his rotten character. It goes to the very core of who he is. It's impossible to change rotten character through a single act of contrition, especially when that contrition is just a sham like his Ashley Madison "confession" proved to be. He "confessed" only because he knew he was about to be outed anyway (better to feign repentance and spin the story so it's personally advantageous). As he'd so often done before he took a scandal of his own making and turned it into a way of garnering sympathy and making bank off gullible Christians. To make a good show of it he even took a leave of absence from Ligonier -- with full pay. In other words Ligonier rewarded him with a paid vacation.

Sproul has all the traits of a sociopath and a narcissist. He needs professional mental health care. But that will never happen because psychology is a bad word in his circles.

100% this.  And the worst thing about that paid vacation is not that he got paid.  It's that his sense of entitlement was affirmed and reinforced. 

This guy's rotten character has always been rooted in the fact that he has had, since birth, the firmly-held belief that he is Very Very Special.  He is quite well-practiced at paying lip service to the notion that he is just as wicked as every other sinner, but every action he has taken in both his public and private lives have told a different story.  He believes himself to be both above the law and also perfectly qualified to adjudicate everybody else's sins, including, to a bewilderingly cruel extent, his own kids'. 

[Banyan]

38 minutes ago, mountaineer said:

He believes himself to be both above the law and also perfectly qualified to adjudicate everybody else's sins, including, to a bewilderingly cruel extent, his own kids'. 

The cruelty against his kids was bad enough as was before Queen Lisa arrived on the scene. At least a private family matter. But almost immediately after she tied the knot with Spanky she started fanning the flames of family discord, taking it all public and causing a much bigger rift than there'd already been. We've seen her posting self-important self-righteous memes on facebook as though marrying RC Sproul Jr merits instant celebrity status worthy of quoting yourself. Nicey nicey bible stuff about forgiveness and reconciliation. But coming from Lisa it's obviously a load of crap. Like Spanky she loves preaching to others and never applying it to herself. Total psychobitch. But then Sproul Jr is hardly a mentally healthy specimen himself.

I think it's inevitable the two of them will eventually turn on each other. She'll probably be the first to turn once the honeymoon phase is over and they tire of puppy-love swooning each other on their facebook like a couple of infatuated teenagers (blech!). Lisa will eventually figure out that dreck doesn't pay the bills. The horny honeymoon isn't over just yet, but that day will come as the tingle hormones subside. When it does Spanky should expect to see the claws come out against him just as she's brandished them against his children. That also means she'll take her grievances against him public, but under aliases, just like she has here against his children. A big motivator will be over her having to come to terms with his finances -- his historical inability to bring home the bacon apart from the support of his parents. She married a man who was making a fat six figure salary at a prestigious ministry, much of which was a tax-free ministerial housing allowance. But within days came Spanky's DUI and he lost all prospects of ever making that kind of money ever again, at least in ministry. Unless he moves on to a secular profession (maybe signing up with Stacey McDonald and selling Young Living essential oils?), he'll be stuck with poverty wages indefinitely.

Lisa expected that marrying into the legendary Sproul family would put her on easy street. She probably hasn't yet faced up to the reality that her husband is and likely always will be just a huge financial liability rather than an asset. She may have had plans of retirement. Now her lot is she'll have to keep working for many years to come. I don't think Lisa is the kind of woman to just overlook being forced into being the family breadwinner. She's also not the kind of woman to own up for her own poor marriage decisions. No, she'll take it out on her husband. Thankfully for her he does make an especially easy target.

[241]

@Banyan Wow.  I am in the loop regularly in a different way. What I have personally heard is many are scared of both of them and that Lisa goes along with whatever RC does.  But it should be that way in marriage. I think the biggest problem among all members is their love of control. If they can’t rule the roost they fly coop. Not sure what they are afraid of, but for whole family to be at war blaming everyone and their brother it must be big. The walls have ears here, and all listen. Hope to find out. 

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by 241