Dolly Parton and fundies

[Loveday]

I was raised on old school country. The 1960s, when Dolly was on TV with Porter Wagoner, Loretta Lynn was singing about the Pill, and Tammy Wynette was still standing by her man, George Jones. I've always loved Dolly, and if it turns out she's a racist, my aging heart will break just a little. 

[nelliebelle1197]

@PennySycamore I think it probably never occurred to her and she may not be involved much in the granular level of what happens at Dollywood. The same group runs the attractions here at Stone Mountain. My born in Mississippi in 1949 stepfather flipped out at the young black women in antebellum waitress garb in the restaurant. He even asked ours how she they could make her wear such things. It’s a thing with all that company’s venues. I don’t think it is meant to be inherently racist but I think it is just really unwoke.

By the way, Stone Mountain, envisioned as a monument to the confederacy and even the early klan, is a popular spot with black families. Most of the people I asked about it don’t seem to care; in fact, it seems to be funny to many older black people I know that their families pretty much take over the whole park!

[Lisafer]

8 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I've never been to that kinda show either.  We had a restoration town near where I grew up and that was a sometime in the 1800's town where us elementary kids got to learn about blacksmithing,  lumber cutting and for a few hours we split up based on boys/girls. So we would learn what each sex did during the day. The boys cut wood and something else and us girls learned to preserve meat with salt and cook a basic meat and potatoes meal to feed the hungry boys, I think laun.  It was super fun!  They did a good job and I have zero sexist feelings about it. That was what life was like back then. We earned some pennies for our work and went to the general store to buy penny candy.  It focused on basic life not any conflict.  Growing up on LI, you get educated in Native American history pretty well.  They go there.  Most towns are Native words. Artifacts are everywhere and common in the soil and at the beach .  History is very present there like that.  

I think restored/historical towns are fabulous! I was a tour guide at a small one when I was in my teens. I wore a 1850s day dress, in a log cabin in August. That'll really make you think about how deodorant wasn't a thing back then...

And really, back in those days, in some ways it didn't matter if you were male or female. You worked your ass off doing whatever needed to be done to keep the family going. A woman could swing an ax as well as man, if her husband was laid up with the dropsy and they needed firewood so the children didn't freeze to death!

[Beermeet]

13 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

I think restored/historical towns are fabulous! I was a tour guide at a small one when I was in my teens. I wore a 1850s day dress, in a log cabin in August. That'll really make you think about how deodorant wasn't a thing back then...

And really, back in those days, in some ways it didn't matter if you were male or female. You worked your ass off doing whatever needed to be done to keep the family going. A woman could swing an ax as well as man, if her husband was laid up with the dropsy and they needed firewood so the children didn't freeze to death!

Yes!  They totally mentioned that and our divided groups got about 30 mins together.  They mentioned how women chopped wood and men could cook as they travelled often or if no woman.  The general store was awesome!  Those straight candy cane like things in lots of flavors,  yum!  I still like them. We got to go once a year 1st-5th.  There were other random real old houses that were cherished and cared for to visit here and there.  I learned that the bedroom was most decorated and where company would sit to chat.  They were mostly one room houses but not real small.  That always stuck with me.  How strange!

[nokidsmom]

Speaking of Dollywood, I recently watched some videos taken on the roller coasters there.  Never have been there and the coaster rides on the videos weren't extreme like some at the Six Flags near me, but what I noticed was just how they wound through the woods, the area seems very scenic.  Maybe Mr. No and I can swing by there on our way to Florida one of these years.

 

[dawbs]

21 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Speaking of Dollywood, I recently watched some videos taken on the roller coasters there.  Never have been there and the coaster rides on the videos weren't extreme like some at the Six Flags near me, but what I noticed was just how they wound through the woods, the area seems very scenic.  Maybe Mr. No and I can swing by there on our way to Florida one of these years.

 

It has been *cough highnumber cough* years since I've been, but I remember it not being as cool as 6 flags, but not running out of things to see during the day.  and the area is lovely.  (if you head that way, I recommend Cumberland Falls)
ALthough, FTR, in July sun, admiring the flower beds while they spread manure and we were waiting for transport is the thing that stands out most in my teenage mind (bad timing.  And really, I"m a country kid, but it was *extra* rank)

I remember there being some rather southern food in the park (pickle on a stick is more southern than norther for reasons I don't understand) and the historical stuff being far more interesting than the like at Cedar Point (who really, should give up and just admit nobody goes there for anything but coasters).  But I also know by that point in the summer, I was pretty museumed out.

[PennySycamore]

@Beermeet, you just reminded me to eat one of the Lucy Memorial Candy Canes off the Christmas tree.  It's almost not Epiphany anymore so I think it's OK.  

Our late terrier, Lucy, loved candy canes and would always snitch one or more off the tree to stash away someplace.  You'd see her eating a candy cane in the middle of July that she'd gotten from her stash.    I hang candy canes on the tree every holiday season in memory of our pets who have gone to the Bridge.

[EmiGirl]

Even though j moved 8 hours away I still get a dollywood pass every year and sometimes one to splash country as well for my summer visits! My favorite thing about it is that they've kept the natural landscape as much as possible. The Wild Eagle is by far the best coaster I've ever been on. Mystery Mine is so much fun when it's completely dark.

I just went there the 2nd and the Christmas decorations are fabulous and I dont feel like I've had Christmas until I've seen the Christmas in the Smokies show.

I also love the Festival of Nations in the springtime and THE Craftmans fair in the fall.

I've been to the Stampede a couple of times. Yes, there's the north and south thing, but the pre-show is good and was not overtly racist.

[applejack]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

Speaking of Dollywood, I recently watched some videos taken on the roller coasters there.  Never have been there and the coaster rides on the videos weren't extreme like some at the Six Flags near me, but what I noticed was just how they wound through the woods, the area seems very scenic.  Maybe Mr. No and I can swing by there on our way to Florida one of these years.

 

Speaking as someone who lives about an hour and a half away from Sevierville/Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg... Dollywood is worth a stop! It's pretty fun, even if you're not a rides person - I'm not. There's a lot to see at Dollywood, lots of really good food. Skip the Stampede though, there's better restaurants than that. (The Old Mill!)

Honestly, the whole Great Smoky Mountain National Park area is worth a stop, if you have more than day to spend, the National Park itself is gorgeous. Pigeon Forge has a lot of really fun stuff (Including an awesome Titanic musium!) Gatlinburg has a lot as well - the aquarium! I love the aquarium. It also has Ober Gatlinburg, which has a great skyway so you can really see the mountains, and year-round indoor ice skating. Sevierville has some touristy stuff, not as much as Pigeon Forge or Gatlinburg, but some. They're also the home of the Chicago Cubs' Double-A affiliate, the Tennessee Smokies, but Sevierville mostly has outlet malls and shopping, but it's fun to stop. Also there's a statue of Dolly in Sevierville.

(If you come in the fall, expect a LOT of traffic. Fall color time in the Smokies is peak time. It took us over an hour to get through the Park to Gatlinburg during fall color season, then we couldn't find parking in Gatlinburg anywhere close to the aquarium. Never again.)

Dolly really revitalized this area by planting Dollywood here. Before she did, the counties out there were, bar none, the poorest in the state. When she stated she wanted to do the Dollywood thing, it was because she knew she could help, and that this was the land she loved, this is her homeplace. She knew, between the sheer beauty of the area, and planting fun things to do around, she could get those tourist dollars in. And she did. The woman is absolutely revered in East Tennessee for everything she's done, between revitalizing the area as a tourist stop, the Imagination Library, which sends books to children, and just being her. I don't think it's hyperbole to say she's deified here for what she's done for us.

[ophelia]

10 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Dolly loved Jordan and said she wanted to take her home. I wish she did...

Jordyn would have a wonderful life. 

I love (alternative) country music and I LOVE Dolly Parton. One of my favorite colleagues, a wonderful/stylish/funny/gay man is an even bigger Dolly fan than I am and we are going to watch Dumplin together and drink some champagne while doing so. It will be a fabulous evening!! 

[EmiGirl]

42 minutes ago, applejack said:

The woman is absolutely revered in East Tennessee f

Our Lord and Savior Dolly Parton as my cousin says.

[formergothardite]

11 hours ago, Beermeet said:

Is it the love of the old south shows that seem racist because the park really is geared twords that thinking or just southern history in general being acted out in any way gets deemed racist because slavery was actually happening at that time (and there is nothing glorious about it) and Dolly owns this theme park?  Is it where racists can go to feel good about our American history?  For real? On purpose by Dolly? Does that out Dolly as a racist?  Sorry, I'm a Northerner big time.  

I don't know if she is racist, her statement on removing "Dixie" and changing from Confederacy to South was that she "recognizes" attitudes change and that by doing this it will help the dinner show expand into other areas. John Oliver did a segment on the Confederacy where he shows interviews from NC where people go on about how the Confederacy wasn't really a bad part of history and then shows a clip from the Stampede where the fight between the North and South is described as a fun rivalry. He points out that if you grow up going to something like the Stampede it is easy to think that the Civil War was just a harmless part of history. 

Some people my parents know make yearly trips to Pigeon Forge and the Stampede and when I heard them talk about the change they said it was just the liberals making poor Dolly have to change. Her silence on the issue makes it easy for them to see her as agreeing with them and that she is just a victim, like they are, of evil political correctness. When you go to the Stampede, it is very much all about Dolly. I'm not sure how much she is involved, but IMO, if you want to know how fundies can overlook her clothing and support for the gay community it is because she has given them this and they see her as part of their movement in trying to preserve a history that downplays the horror of the Civil War and what the antebellum South was like. 

I've not been to Dollywood, but I don't think it has the same theme as the Stampede. I did go to Dolly's water park and it didn't seem to have any racist themes at all. The Pirate show at Myrtle Beach is pretty amazing too. 

 

[Lisafer]

59 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I don't know if she is racist, her statement on removing "Dixie" and changing from Confederacy to South was that she "recognizes" attitudes change and that by doing this it will help the dinner show expand into other areas. John Oliver did a segment on the Confederacy where he shows interviews from NC where people go on about how the Confederacy wasn't really a bad part of history and then shows a clip from the Stampede where the fight between the North and South is described as a fun rivalry. He points out that if you grow up going to something like the Stampede it is easy to think that the Civil War was just a harmless part of history. 

Some people my parents know make yearly trips to Pigeon Forge and the Stampede and when I heard them talk about the change they said it was just the liberals making poor Dolly have to change. Her silence on the issue makes it easy for them to see her as agreeing with them and that she is just a victim, like they are, of evil political correctness. When you go to the Stampede, it is very much all about Dolly. I'm not sure how much she is involved, but IMO, if you want to know how fundies can overlook her clothing and support for the gay community it is because she has given them this and they see her as part of their movement in trying to preserve a history that downplays the horror of the Civil War and what the antebellum South was like. 

I've not been to Dollywood, but I don't think it has the same theme as the Stampede. I did go to Dolly's water park and it didn't seem to have any racist themes at all. The Pirate show at Myrtle Beach is pretty amazing too. 

 

Dollywood and Silver Dollar City are basically the same thing, just in different states...same rides, same theme, etc. The main thing is that SDC is a lot hillier and more difficult to walk! And yeah, it's an 1880s theme without overt racism.

I've always heard that Dolly Parton is very nice in person. I doubt she'd treat a black person differently from a white person if they were out to dinner or something. The glorification of the Confederacy is...deeper than Dolly, I'm trying to say. 

[formergothardite]

33 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

The glorification of the Confederacy is...deeper than Dolly, I'm trying to say. 

It is probably something she never really had to consider. The Stampede opened in the 80's if I remember correctly and at that time very few people even blinked an eye about creating a dinner show where the South can finally win the Civil War. It has to have made her an epic amount of money over the years, but I highly doubt she actually has attended the show in any recent time period. 

 

[nokidsmom]

@dawbsand @applejack thanks for info on Dollywood and the surrounding area.   I was in the area years ago as a kid on one of my parents' camping trips.  It wasn't as it is now but we did go to the National Park and through Gatlinburg.    Positively gorgeous scenery.  Thanks for tips on not going there in the fall.    We nearly did that back in 2017 during the time my Dad was ill and we considered forgoing Colorado and instead going to the Smoky Mountains in case we had to make a quick return home. 

[Lisafer]

34 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It is probably something she never really had to consider. The Stampede opened in the 80's if I remember correctly and at that time very few people even blinked an eye about creating a dinner show where the South can finally win the Civil War. It has to have made her an epic amount of money over the years, but I highly doubt she actually has attended the show in any recent time period. 

 

That's kind of what I meant. I'm not saying she's innocent, but that she's probably not an overt racist or that she hates black people. Thank you.

[MamaJunebug]

Love Dolly, recently heard her quoted that she doesn’t know what God really is, but she believes there is one. Idly wondering, I am,  if the Uber-conservative Lutheran talk radio “Issues Etc” host will tear that apart but not really waiting for him to. He seems to be more interested in analyzing the pop culture (when he does) in re: the troubling aspects of movies. 

Dolly’s denominational identity in childhood, if any, was probably Baptist or Methodist.  Can’t imagine leaders of those groups choosing to dissect her theology. For one, their pew-sitters / tithers who are Dolly fans would probably read them right out

Just my musings on other things about Dolly that could get extremists’ socks bunched up.

[Pecansforeveryone]

I read Dolly's autobiography ,maybe 10 years ago. One or both of her grandfather's were old time Pentocostal preachers, "holy rollers." She describes visiting a neighbouring church as a child where the preacher suddenly starts bringing out venomous snakes! Her father wandered into the sanctuary, saw the snakes, and ran down the aisle screaming, "Get those dam snakes away from my kids." The preacher knew better than to take on a pissed off hill Billy and put the snakes away. (I am paraphrasing Dolly's words.) 

[VelociRapture]

13 hours ago, Beermeet said:

I've never been to that kinda show either.  We had a restoration town near where I grew up and that was a sometime in the 1800's town where us elementary kids got to learn about blacksmithing,  lumber cutting and for a few hours we split up based on boys/girls. So we would learn what each sex did during the day. The boys cut wood and something else and us girls learned to preserve meat with salt and cook a basic meat and potatoes meal to feed the hungry boys, I think laun.  It was super fun!  They did a good job and I have zero sexist feelings about it. That was what life was like back then. We earned some pennies for our work and went to the general store to buy penny candy.  It focused on basic life not any conflict.  Growing up on LI, you get educated in Native American history pretty well.  They go there.  Most towns are Native words. Artifacts are everywhere and common in the soil and at the beach .  History is very present there like that.  

Same with Connecticut. We have Mystic Seaport here, which is a living museum that educates visitors about what life was like in a whaling village and is still one of my favorite parts of my state. It’s one of the leading maritime museums in the country and they offer classes to interested parties like the ones you mentioned. My school went in Elementary School for a field trip once and all the kids got to watch the cooking and blacksmith demonstrations. And my mom got to do a camp sort of thing on one of their wooden ships when she was a kid back in the late 60s or early 70s. 

Massachusetts has Sturbridge Village right over the border from us too and that was pretty fun the one time I’ve been. Husband and I are pretty excited about getting to bring our daughter to Mystic and Sturbridge one day.  

I will say that I don’t think Connecticut did enough in the past (and maybe present) to educate people about the history of the Indigenous nations that once lived here. Yes, we have many rivers and some areas named after tribes or named using their languages (for example, the Quinnipiac River and Quinnipiac University are named for a tribe and “Connecticut” is an anglicized version of a word in Algonquin that refers to a “long tidal river” that bisects the state), but I don’t remember learning much at all in school other than the romanticized version of Thanksgiving. In Elementary School we also did a field trip to a living museum in part of the state that taught about one of the tribes that once lived here and we had a group come with a tepee to teach us about some of the plains nations. I think we learned more about how the various tribes were treated in High School, but it would have been more of a basic overview of the nation. I don’t remember much about the topic otherwise, so I’m guessing not much time was spent focused on it (or else my memory is much worse than I realized.) 

And for anyone wanting to learn more, there are some great books out there that focus on various tribes and historical figures. I really liked reading, “The Killing of Crazy Horse” and “Empire of the Midnight Sun.” There was a book I read a few years back about the Trail of Tears as well that was very interesting (I think it was the one by John Ehle.) And there are some nice options for kid’s too - we own, “The Legend of Hobbomock: The Sleeping Giant,” which teaches one of the legends of the Quinnipiac people, who once lived throughout central Connecticut. We also have “I Am Sacagawea,” which is part of the “Ordinary People Change the World” series (along with the ones about Sonia Sotomayor and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.) I’m always looking for more suggestions on reading material, especially for kids. I want my daughter to grow up being more exposed to the real history of the country than I was. I think it could be a really interesting learning experience for both of us as she gets older. 

[EowynW]

My fundie parents didn't allow her. 

[PennySycamore]

@Pecansforeveryone.  you're right about Dolly being raised Pentecostal.  I think she may have been raised in the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee), bit it may have been at least partly the Church of God With Signs Following.  The Signs Following Church of God split off from the Cleveland denomination and yep, they are snake handlers.  

The Church of God is very prominent in my home county in SC.  Just in my town, there was Church of God, Number One, Church of God, Number Two and Church of God, Number Three.  It's really not any weirder than calling a church First or Second Baptist.  Those locals Churches of God would have hot dogs sales on Saturday mornings and ,man, were those hot dogs good!

[AussieKrissy]

I watched, Coat of many colors. It's based on the story that lead Dolly to write that song, It's an amazing (hallmark???) movie. It also has Jennifer Nettles from Sugarland staring as her mother. love too. 

I am Aussie, I LOVE Dolly and all things country music. 

I don't think someone who seems as opened minded as Dolly appears to be could be racist. I love her to much to think that of her.

[Beermeet]

Just now, AussieKrissy said:

 

I don't think someone who seems as opened minded as Dolly appears to be could be racist. I love her to much to think that of her.

I was just going to comment something just like that!  That's why I'm wondering if it's because the hokey shows ( I imagine them being hokey like all amusement parks shows are) are "from a certain time" ( said in my best Blanche DuBois) .  Dolly built a theme park in her beloved state.  The shows may not be my cuppa but I strongly hesitate to call her racist because of them.  I've saw the documentary on her and, whoa!  The house she grew up in with all her siblings and parents and she has nothing but gratitude for their love and pure determination!  She seems loving and accepting.  I would need more proof and I hope it's not out there and true.  I liked her since I was a kid; when 9-5 came out and the female grownups loved it and so did I!

[Cat Damon]

@VelociRapture those places sound amazing! I wish I lived closer, I would absolutely go to those.

 

In Indiana, we have a place called Conner Prairie, which is a living history park/ outdoor museum. I used to loooove going there, it's probably part of why I got a degree in history. They also do a really interesting program called Follow the North Star, which is a program for students and parents to "experience" what it was like to be a runaway slave on the Underground Railroad in 1836. I haven't done it, but it's really popular and I've heard good things about it. Here is some more information if anyone is interested in reading about it.

[Lisafer]

9 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I watched, Coat of many colors. It's based on the story that lead Dolly to write that song, It's an amazing (hallmark???) movie. It also has Jennifer Nettles from Sugarland staring as her mother. love too. 

I am Aussie, I LOVE Dolly and all things country music. 

I don't think someone who seems as opened minded as Dolly appears to be could be racist. I love her to much to think that of her.

The thing is, the shows that bear her name DO have racist elements. So she has a responsibility to fix that. She put her name on them and knows what the content is.

I agree she seems really nice. She doesn't get a personal responsibility pass, though.