Duggars by the Dozen 36: The Drought Has Ended with Jessa's Announcement

[singsingsing]

26 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

8, 10 even 12 kids is a far cry from 19- It ‘s like saying having 1 kid is like having 8.

It's a far cry from 19, but it's also a far cry from the national average of ~2. 8, 10, 12 kids still amounts to an enormous family and most quiverfull people only wind up with around 8-12 (if that) anyway.

[Buzzard]

On 12/28/2018 at 10:43 PM, JessaBlessa said:

Sadly, with the sound crew in that pic, they are filming... ugh.

[VelociRapture]

@SassyPants Sometimes it feels like I have eight kids when I’m really only dealing with my one human kid and one dog. Im finding that the toddler years are very fun, but very tough as well so far. 

[TZmom]

6 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

@SassyPants Sometimes it feels like I have eight kids when I’m really only dealing with my one human kid and one dog. Im finding that the toddler years are very fun, but very tough as well so far. 

The toddler years are awful. I always say, I'd like to have another baby but i have no interest in raising another toddler.  Since that can't happen without some kind of tragic circumstance, I think I'm done having babies. 

Three is really enough anyway,  plus I have two crazy dogs,  one of whom is an untrained puppy. My house is plenty busy. 

[Kailash]

36 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Sadly, with the sound crew in that pic, they are filming... ugh.

That’s such a strange picture. Some of them are wearing coats, Josie is in short sleeves and barefoot. Did they plan this picture at all? 

Josie isn’t barefoot, it’s a different girl. Still strange. 

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, Kailash said:

That’s such a strange picture. Some of them are wearing coats, Josie is in short sleeves and barefoot. Did they plan this picture at all? 

Josie isn’t barefoot, it’s a different girl. Still strange. 

They always post pictures like this and it’s the weirdest thing. Someone or multiple people are always in coats or hats like they just came in from outside while the rest aren’t. I don’t get it. You’re posing for a group photo but you don’t have time to take off your coat?

[HarleyQuinn]

I wonder what Jim the sound guy thinks of that family after all these years of following them? He must be a hardcore conservative. I don't think I could take it. 

[Pete Pickles]

1 hour ago, Kailash said:

That’s such a strange picture. Some of them are wearing coats, Josie is in short sleeves and barefoot. Did they plan this picture at all? 

Josie isn’t barefoot, it’s a different girl. Still strange. 

 

55 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

They always post pictures like this and it’s the weirdest thing. Someone or multiple people are always in coats or hats like they just came in from outside while the rest aren’t. I don’t get it. You’re posing for a group photo but you don’t have time to take off your coat?

Meh. I have a large family and I’m in the generation of “we have to document everything for Facebook!” A lot of times it actually IS an afterthought. Someone or a smaller group is trying to leave and someone else remembers no one took a photo. “Oh wait just a second. This will only take a minute!” It takes several. It is annoying.

[singsingsing]

10 minutes ago, Pete Pickles said:

Meh. I have a large family and I’m in the generation of “we have to document everything for Facebook!” A lot of times it actually IS an afterthought. Someone or a smaller group is trying to leave and someone else remembers no one took a photo. “Oh wait just a second. This will only take a minute!” It takes several. It is annoying.

Thank you for your insight - I have a small family and we never do group photos, so I really have no experience with this!

[HarryPotterFan]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I actually think that's really, really unlikely. First cousin marriage hasn't been socially acceptable in the U.S. for a long time, in a lot of the country (including Arkansas) it's illegal, and it doesn't happen very often. Not saying it's impossible, but I would definitely not expect any Duggar first cousins to wind up married. 

Hmmm. The person I know whose brother married their first cousin is American. I think the cousin grew up in France (and the families visited each other over the years). So I guess they got married in a country that allowed it. But if you’re planning a wedding and realize you can’t marry your intended in your country shouldn’t that be a red flag? Also if you marry your first cousin where it’s legal and then move to where it’s illegal, are you still considered married in the new country?

[SorenaJ]

1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Hmmm. The person I know whose brother married their first cousin is American. I think the cousin grew up in France (and the families visited each other over the years). So I guess they got married in a country that allowed it. But if you’re planning a wedding and realize you can’t marry your intended in your country shouldn’t that be a red flag? Also if you marry your first cousin where it’s legal and then move to where it’s illegal, are you still considered married in the new country?

To the bolded: Not necessarily. Same-sex weddings are illegal in a lot of countries, and that shouldn't be a red flag. 

Im not really pro or con first cousin weddings, I don't really mind what other people do. If it keeps happening throughout generations I would hope that they would get genetically tested. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Hmmm. The person I know whose brother married their first cousin is American. I think the cousin grew up in France (and the families visited each other over the years). So I guess they got married in a country that allowed it. But if you’re planning a wedding and realize you can’t marry your intended in your country shouldn’t that be a red flag? Also if you marry your first cousin where it’s legal and then move to where it’s illegal, are you still considered married in the new country?

It’s legal in several states. The states recognize each other’s marriages, which was controversial when some states first started allowing same-sex marriage. I’m not sure about other countries, but likely the same rule applies.

As for the red flag, most Americans would file that under “government overreach” and move on. The UK has never outlawed first-cousin marriage, largely because Queen Victoria and her husband Prince Albert were first cousins. I heard a while ago that cousin marriage among the Pakistani community in the UK has caused birth defects, so some people wanted the government to consider outlawing it.

[nastyhobbitses]

26 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

It’s legal in several states. The states recognize each other’s marriages, which was controversial when some states first started allowing same-sex marriage. I’m not sure about other countries, but likely the same rule applies.

As for the red flag, most Americans would file that under “government overreach” and move on. The UK has never outlawed first-cousin marriage, largely because Queen Victoria and her husband Prince Albert were first cousins. I heard a while ago that cousin marriage among the Pakistani community in the UK has caused birth defects, so some people wanted the government to consider outlawing it.

The main issue I would see with outlawing it would be that the Pakistani community would pretty easily see that as a legal measure directed, if not completely towards them, then mostly towards them, and they'd have good grounds to think that, even though cousin marriage does occur in other communities in the UK. Already there's (from what I can tell from reading up about the issue and watching a documentary about it) a great deal of tension between Pakistanis and the British government regarding the issue (and tensions within the Pakistani community over split opinions), because everyone's walking this tightrope between respecting people's right to live as they please/not stepping on a culture, and preventing/mitigating a pretty apparent public health problem. I'm not sure what a good solution is beyond educating people about the risks of cousin marriage, especially if they are from families with long histories of repeated cousin marriages, which only increases the risks of passing down birth defects (that's how the Hapsburg Lip and hemophilia became such prominent health issues for European royals). 

At any rate, I doubt there will be any Duggar (or Bates) cousin marriages, at least in the current generations, mostly because Felicity aside, they're growing up very close to each other, nearly like siblings, so I'd imagine the Westermarck Effect would come into play. That and the Duggars know full well what bad PR it would be. 

[Iamtheway]

On 1/2/2019 at 2:43 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I totally get where you are coming from with this, but if I think about why does it mater? Siblings frequently have similar likes and dislikes and similar beliefs and morals and things that are important to a successful relationship, so it would kind of make sense that siblings would marry siblings if they are all similar.  But then I think of what happened to an old coworker I worked, she & her older sister were married to brothers, and it was all hunky dory until her sister & BIL were having marital problems and divorced. That almost led to the break up of their marriage as the siblings were each taking their own siblings side in things.  Thankfully her sister and BIL were able to come to an amicable split for the sake of their kids and their siblings, they didn't want their marriage failure to end another marriage.  

I guess the TL:DR synopsis is you are right, while it seems like it would be logical on the surface, too much shit can go wrong causing too much drama. 

I came really long in this post before I got that you were not talking about siblings getting married. ?

On 1/2/2019 at 4:06 AM, KeshetParparNesicha said:

I know an uncle-niece couple (not personally; the brother and niece of a neighbor). It was quite the scandal.

Wouldn’t do it myself, but I’m totally ok with adult cousins chosing to marry eachother. Uncle-niece really sounds like it should be illegal though. Ick! 

[eveandadam]

Im sensing that this long period without any announcement is just that because there are no announcement. And I'm also sensing that the Duggar daughters and daughters in law have found a way to delay getting pregnant so fast, either by consulting a doctor or just the internet. There sure are some ways to prevent pregnancy that is even approved by them, e.g. abstinence, or just, as simple as that, proper breast feeding. Something tells me that Michelle purposefully stopped breastfeeding early or did not do it to an extend that would prevent further pregnancy in order to get pregnant more quickly. My guess is that the daughters now breast feed exclusively as long as possible to prevent, which could also be interpreted as "G-d's will" because breastfeeding is good for the baby and it's "G-d's will" if you have plentry of milk for the baby, right?

Michelle underlined that she was one of the few women who could get prengant while breast feeding. Well, maybe she just did not do it as long as she could have or gave the baby formula early on in addition to her milk?

[Coconut Flan]

I think Jeremy gave all his BILs a case of condoms.  

Just kidding, but I definitely believe that Jeremy is not opposed to birth control and perhaps since he and Jinger broke away from a baby at least conceived the first year and the sky didn't fall, the others have decided they can at least space kids.  

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, eveandadam said:

Im sensing that this long period without any announcement is just that because there are no announcement. And I'm also sensing that the Duggar daughters and daughters in law have found a way to delay getting pregnant so fast, either by consulting a doctor or just the internet. There sure are some ways to prevent pregnancy that is even approved by them, e.g. abstinence, or just, as simple as that, proper breast feeding. Something tells me that Michelle purposefully stopped breastfeeding early or did not do it to an extend that would prevent further pregnancy in order to get pregnant more quickly. My guess is that the daughters now breast feed exclusively as long as possible to prevent, which could also be interpreted as "G-d's will" because breastfeeding is good for the baby and it's "G-d's will" if you have plentry of milk for the baby, right?

Michelle underlined that she was one of the few women who could get prengant while breast feeding. Well, maybe she just did not do it as long as she could have or gave the baby formula early on in addition to her milk?

Exclusive breastfeeding is very effective for the time before ovulation returns.  Especially for the first six months. BUT the time that ovulation returns varies greatly, even in the same woman from pregnancy to pregnancy. Michelle very well could have been breastfeeding exclusively and just had a consistent early return. 

Interestingly, the sex book they are reported to give them all all before marriage, also contains chapters on various methods of birth control. 

[just_ordinary]

Or maybe they just haven’t conceived??

If they just get intimate when they want to the chances of not getting pregnant aren’t so bad. We are just blinded by people like Michelle. Tracking your cycle and having sex around your fertile window makes it much more likely to conceive than just having sex whenever you feel like it. Most couples don’t do it every other day. That is why doctors often suggest more sex around your correctly determined ovulation. If that doesn’t work after about six months they would agree that there actually might be a problem (the period will be shorter if your older so you don’t waste too many eggs). I know a gynaecologist and she says it’s astonishing how many still have no clue, just count the days and have sex just once- and then are upset because they don’t conceive. You would think with the internet people have a better understanding how it works.

I cannot see any woman in this family doing anything else but nfp. Simply because there would no “evidence” around. And you are not doing something to prevent conception but still have sex. You just don’t have sex. Nothing to prevent. (I totally see them being ok with this logic).

 If you are very experienced you can do it with minimal effort. However, reaching that point would require some work: several cycles that are not influenced by a previous pregnancy, being alert to changes in your cycles by age/hormones, stress, pregnancies and so on. The interpretation of your data gets easier with every cycle but of course there are still chances of getting pregnant. Earlier or delayed ovulation can happen. I don’t see them preventing with a barrier method till they are sure the fertile window has closed but they could still not get pregnant for quite some time with it.

8 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Exclusive breastfeeding is very effective for the time before ovulation returns.  Especially for the first six months. BUT the time that ovulation returns varies greatly, even in the same woman from pregnancy to pregnancy. Michelle very well could have been breastfeeding exclusively and just had a consistent early return. 

Interestingly, the sex book they are reported to give them all all before marriage, also contains chapters on various methods of birth control. 

The problem is you never know if you are getting your fertility back early despite exclusively breastfeeding on demand before you did it. That would be too much of a risk to me. And just because it worked once I wouldn’t trust it to work again. Bodies change. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Michelle actively tried to conceive as soon as she could after each birth. They did not leave the number of children up to God, they had as many kids as she was able to carry.  Leaving the number of children up to God means that you aren't actively trying to conceive, but if you get pregnant you will gladly accept the "blessing".  

I think the 2nd Gen of the Duggar/Bates clan are doing a bit more NFP either before or after baby #1.  I'm not as up to speed on the Bates so I could be wrong but I think Erin & Alyssa are popping out babies at a pretty rapid pace, even with Erin's medical issues, Erin & Chad might try and go for double digit kids. Aside from those two & Michaelas infertility problems,  everyone else seems to be using some form of NFP to either space out pregnancies or prevent until they want to start having kids (Jinjer & Siren)  Not sure about Jabbie yet and I'll be interested to see how quickly Carlin gets pregnant, or if she will wait. 

[viii]

I’m still not convinced Jeremy and Jinger “waited” a year by choice. However, I sincerely hope they did, and continue to plan a more realistic family. 

[KeshetParparNesicha]

2 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

Wouldn’t do it myself, but I’m totally ok with adult cousins chosing to marry eachother. Uncle-niece really sounds like it should be illegal though. Ick! 

Come to think of it, I don't know if the uncle/niece I know even got legally married.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

Today marks one whole year since the last Duggar Pregnancy announcement. Who'da thunk we'd make it to this momentous day?

[CaricatureQualities]

My newsfeed over the past few weeks keeps popping up with "Is Abbie/Lauren pregnant!? Look at this pic" ...trash. It's annoying. We all know there will be an announcement when there is an announcement. Scrutinizing every pic of a girl post wedding for a sign of pregnancy is so passe.  They all have a Shrodinger's uterus, they are all both pregnant and not pregnant until we get the announcement, I don't need to see the pics. 

[AtlanticTug]

I'm also really surprised to be entering 2019 without any announcements. Obviously it's possible that multiple women are pregnant, but I thought for sure we'd have a baby or two in the first 4 months of the year and that now looks extremely unlikely.

I agree that the odds of seeing another family with 10+ kids here are becoming more remote. As is JB's dream of 200 grandchildren, praise the Lord. I also think that the younger Duggar kids would be far less likely to have giant broods. They won't end up with the same reality shows as the oldest siblings, nobody cares about wedding #14 or grandchild #37 anymore, aside from the parents themselves. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

32 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

nobody cares about wedding #14 or grandchild #37 anymore, aside from the parents themselves. 

They don't even care about child #14 or Child #9, or 10, or 11 or 12 or 13 or 15 or 16 or 17 or 18.  Not even sure they care that much about #'s 7 or 8 either. They just stopped all pretense of caring with child #9 when they handed her over to her 7 year old sister.