Duggars by the Dozen 36: The Drought Has Ended with Jessa's Announcement

[SassyPants]

And I think it’s worth mentioning, very, very few parents COULD care about or even for mega numbers of kids. It is physically impossible, as time constraints ARE in place. It’s exactly why theDuggars and Bates have shows in the first place.  Their error was not in devising buddy groups or using sister moms, their error was in having too many kids for 1 couple to adequately and responsibly care for-

[VelociRapture]

@just_ordinary Healthy couples under 35 are usually* advised to try for a year prior to seeking help. Six months is usually how long couples over 35 are told to try prior to seeking help. 

*I say usually because that’s not always true depending on the medical histories involved. Some couples under 35 - like my husband and me - are advised to try for just six months prior to seeking help. 

ETA: I should note I’m in the states, so recommendations might vary between countries. 

[emmeline]

8 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

@just_ordinary Healthy couples under 35 are usually* advised to try for a year prior to seeking help. Six months is usually how long couples over 35 are told to try prior to seeking help. 

*I say usually because that’s not always true depending on the medical histories involved. Some couples under 35 - like my husband and me - are advised to try for just six months prior to seeking help. 

ETA: I should note I’m in the states, so recommendations might vary between countries. 

I'd add to that too, that younger couples may be told to wait even longer. We were in our mid 20s and tried for 2.5 years with no success before my doctor would finally refer us to IVF. But yes, generally speaking I've heard those guidelines (1 year for under 35, 6 months for over 35). Often the woman's age is the determining factor if there's a big age difference too. 

[just_ordinary]

15 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

@just_ordinary Healthy couples under 35 are usually* advised to try for a year prior to seeking help. Six months is usually how long couples over 35 are told to try prior to seeking help. 

*I say usually because that’s not always true depending on the medical histories involved. Some couples under 35 - like my husband and me - are advised to try for just six months prior to seeking help. 

ETA: I should note I’m in the states, so recommendations might vary between countries. 

True. In general most people get pregnant in the course of a year. But when you talk to your doctor after a year they often want you try another six months with intense cycle tracking and more and timed intercourse. That is the first step. This often happens before other actions like testing are set in motion. They skip this phase when you are older or when you already did it on your own. 

In our health care system you have a general check up every six months. So it is easy to have a year of trying before actual things happen. They wouldn’t think it unusual if your not pregnant after six months (if you didn’t use some sort of nfp for conceiving already).

I talked to my doctor before we even started trying. Which was good because we checked my vaccinations and I had enough time to refresh some of them. Additionally he knew that we worked on it and knew that I already used nfp. So I would have skipped another waiting period if there would have been problems.

[VelociRapture]

20 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

True. In general most people get pregnant in the course of a year. But when you talk to your doctor after a year they often want you try another six months with intense cycle tracking and more and timed intercourse. That is the first step. This often happens before other actions like testing are set in motion. They skip this phase when you are older or when you already did it on your own. 

In our health care system you have a general check up every six months. So it is easy to have a year of trying before actual things happen. They wouldn’t think it unusual if your not pregnant after six months (if you didn’t use some sort of nfp for conceiving already).

I talked to my doctor before we even started trying. Which was good because we checked my vaccinations and I had enough time to refresh some of them. Additionally he knew that we worked on it and knew that I already used nfp. So I would have skipped another waiting period if there would have been problems.

I agree, but your initial post left me thinking that you thought the period of time before seeking help was much shorter:

Your post was written in a way that made it sound to me* as if trying for only six months was the cutoff for younger couples and that couples over 35 had an even shorter window to try without help. So I was responding just to clarify.  

*Its a complete possibility I just misread your post, which is why I said it sounded that way to me. I’ve been more tired than normal lately - I think it’s because it’s winter now and it’s so dark now. 

[Carm_88]

I have double first cousins, and I don't find it weird at all. People always say "You're basically siblings" and really expect us all to look a lot alike, but we don't. I think that would be more common if both sets of parents looked alike and my Dad and his brother don't look like they have the same parents. My Mom and her sister have similarities, but there are more differences. It's just the way that genetics work and genetically we are not siblings. 

That being said, my grandfather and his brother married sisters, and my dad's sibling and their double first cousins look nothing alike either. I mean, nothing outside the ordinary. It's all good. Although to be completely honest, in the area that I am from, there's not many people that I'm not slightly related to and I haven't finished the massive Family Tree yet. 

[theotherelise]

I don't know what the numbers are on chances of pregnancy for a year of Not Trying Not Preventing. But I do know that the chances of accidentally getting pregnant while using Natural Family Planning are 25% after one year. The chances of getting pregnant intentionally by tracking cycles is 90-92% after 12 cycles of timed intercourse. STUDY People like to throw around a statistic about your chances of getting pregnant each month being 20%, but that statistic is meaningless. If you take out the people who will later be diagnosed with infertility, then about 55% of people using timed intercourse will get pregnant their first month trying and nearly 80% of them will be pregnant after 3 cycles. 

I charted my basal body temperature, used OPKs, and tracked my cervical mucus for 8 months before talking to my OBGYN about some concerns I had about my cycle irregularity. She did not think I should worry at all. I waited the four more months and went into the Reproductive Endocrinologist on my own at that point and was subsequently diagnosed with PCOS and suspected endo. The various anecdotes you hear from OBGYNs should not be used as evidence of when there is or isn't a problem. If you've been trying for 6 cycles of well-timed intercourse, you have a 50% chance of conceiving in the next 6 cycles. 

That said, I agree with the above poster that figuring out sexual intimacy in any relationship can be tricky (it was one reason my husband and I put off trying for the first couple years so we could work on sex before working on the baby-making), let alone if you haven't built up to that point from side-hugs only. There are any number of mental or physical health issues which may prevent a newly married couple from having intercourse to completion during the fertile window.

I personally believe strongly that Jinger used some kind of family planning to lower her chances of pregnancy during the first year of her marriage and then got pregnant the first cycle or so she tried. She did not give off any whiff of struggling with conceiving and their comments were never the same as the other couples about "as many as God will give us" or "leaving it up to God." For Jessa, Jill, and Joy... there could be any number of reasons from them using natural family planning for health reasons to ovulation not coming back quickly while breastfeeding to lowered interest or busier lives causing reduced intimacy.

We barely know Abby or Lauren.

[eveandadam]

Huh, maybe there are no announcements from the Duggars nor the Bates' side because there is at least one courtship going on between the two families

Jana and Lawson or Nathan?

Katy and Jed, Jer, Jason or James? (I know Katy was photographed with that one guy on Josie's wedding, but maybe that special friendship is off now, who knows?

Or mabye something not so nice happened (please not!!!), and I don't wanna jinx it so I'm not saying any names or things...

[NakedKnees]

On the subject of double-cousins, I don't know if this is true but in my life I've seen it much more in my life in S. America (Chilean-Argentinean cultures) than in the US. Like, 0 times in the US and 4 times, off the top of my head, here.

TW for thoughts on first cousin marriage: grooming, underage relationships with adults

Spoiler

On the subject of first cousin marriage, I'm okay with it in theory but I actually went through being groomed by an older cousin that left a very bad taste in my mouth about the whole subject. He was much older than me and I was only 16 (so that aspect was also certainly wrong), but what freaked me out the most was definitely the "incest" taboo. So, it's difficult for me to see past that, even if it's by and large self-imposed.

In light of the nonsense seen on the Caleb thread, I feel the need to mention that the age difference was also wrong. But I also wouldn't have gotten close to a thirty-something year old man if I hadn't grown up with/around him. I like to think there'd at least be a wariness there if he wasn't a family member. I don't think I COULD have been groomed in the exact way I was if we weren't cousins, if that makes sense.

 

[singsingsing]

I wonder how a courtship/marriage between a Duggar and Bates would work with the two TV shows. 

[eveandadam]

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I wonder how a courtship/marriage between a Duggar and Bates would work with the two TV shows. 

Maybe there is no announcement because they haven't figured it out yet (contract-wise etc.)

[mpheels]

19 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I wonder how a courtship/marriage between a Duggar and Bates would work with the two TV shows. 

The headship/husband’s network wins?

 

edit to add - maybe each person sticks with thier home network, and we see lots of sun glare...

[eveandadam]

28 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I wonder how a courtship/marriage between a Duggar and Bates would work with the two TV shows. 

I strongly feel that there could be something to it (a Duggar-Bates courtship that is)

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, eveandadam said:

Maybe there is no announcement because they haven't figured it out yet (contract-wise etc.)

Theories:

-One company buys out the other and they merge shows, so we are only forced to put up with one show about mega families

 -JB and Gil enter a cage match, winner gets to have the wedding on their show

-Michelle and Kelly have a contest to see who is the best mother by actually spending time with their children. The one who lasts the longest wins the wedding (and keeps Michelle’s MOTY award)

If no one has a baby soon maybe the Duggars and Bates can do Celebrity Wife Swap.

[mollysmom]

1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Theories:

-One company buys out the other and they merge shows, so we are only forced to put up with one show about mega families

 -JB and Gil enter a cage match, winner gets to have the wedding on their show

-Michelle and Kelly have a contest to see who is the best mother by actually spending time with their children. The one who lasts the longest wins the wedding (and keeps Michelle’s MOTY award)

If no one has a baby soon maybe the Duggars and Bates can do Celebrity Wife Swap.

First one who can name all their own children wins! Guess there will be no winners in that case!!

ETA: I realize Meechelle names ALL her children that she delivered (ALL OF THEM!!!) but I'm not convinced she wasn't reading off a script!!!!

[Sky with diamonds]

4 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Huh, maybe there are no announcements from the Duggars nor the Bates' side because there is at least one courtship going on between the two families

Jana and Lawson or Nathan?

Katy and Jed, Jer, Jason or James? (I know Katy was photographed with that one guy on Josie's wedding, but maybe that special friendship is off now, who knows?

Or mabye something not so nice happened (please not!!!), and I don't wanna jinx it so I'm not saying any names or things...

Jana and Lawson...I hope not. I think Lawson is full of himself. Wasn't he crushng on Jinger before Jeremy entered the picture? 

[singsingsing]

2 minutes ago, Sky with diamonds said:

Jana and Lawson...I hope not. I think Lawson is full of himself. Wasn't he crushng on Jinger before Jeremy entered the picture? 

Lawson crushing on Jinger has definitely been speculated about, and there were some interesting clues maybe in favour of that idea, but nothing was ever proven. 

I also think that Jana and Lawson would not make a good match at all. They seem to have completely different personalities, interests and desires.

[HarryPotterFan]

46 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

First one who can name all their own children wins! Guess there will be no winners in that case!!

ETA: I realize Meechelle names ALL her children that she delivered (ALL OF THEM!!!) but I'm not convinced she wasn't reading off a script!!!!

And if they tie they can see if either can remember all their kids birthdays!! Though Mechelle has an advantage because she has two sets of twins. And all J names...

[mpheels]

Lawson seems like the exact opposite of everything Jana says she wants in a man.

I haven’t paid enough attention to the Bates in recent years to assess Nathan - I remember him being super corny/dorky, but more in line with Jana’s “type.” He’s younger than Jana, but not unreasonably so... I still have a hard time seeing them together.

[Sky with diamonds]

15 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Lawson crushing on Jinger has definitely been speculated about, and there were some interesting clues maybe in favour of that idea, but nothing was ever proven. 

I also think that Jana and Lawson would not make a good match at all. They seem to have completely different personalities, interests and desires.

I agree. If Jana were to Cort/marry, I'd hope it's someone who is very suited to her. Lawson isn't suited to her at all, IMO.

[fundieundies]

Honestly I don't think the drought has anything to do with the marrieds not having enough help and realizing how much work it is (as some have said in other threads and online). I don't doubt that if one of the girls went to JB & J'chelle and told them they were struggling, those two would send one Johannah or Jordyn over to help out. 

Kendra not being pregnant really surprises me, I know she just had a baby but she and Joseph seem hooked on an IV of fundie kool aid. She had a positive birth and I always pegged them as most likely to have dozens of kids in rapid succession.

[mpheels]

I can see Kendra and Joe having to most kids, but I can also see them truly “leaving it up to God” - don’t prevent, but also don’t do things to deliberately increase chances of conception. No tracking of cycles or early weaning like Michelle, just live life and see what’s happens.

[singsingsing]

12 minutes ago, fundieundies said:

Kendra not being pregnant really surprises me, I know she just had a baby but she and Joseph seem hooked on an IV of fundie kool aid. She had a positive birth and I always pegged them as most likely to have dozens of kids in rapid succession.

It's been just about seven months since she had Garrett, and she could be pregnant right now and just not announcing yet. Just as an example, say she got pregnant four months after she gave birth (which would be really fast), she could just not be ready to announce yet, and she would be due in July, and Garrett and the new baby would only be about 13 months apart. Even if she's not pregnant now but got pregnant new month, she'd be due in November and they'd be 16 or 17 months apart. I think Michelle's average between babies was about 16 months.

[BachelorToTheRapture]

57 minutes ago, fundieundies said:

Honestly I don't think the drought has anything to do with the marrieds not having enough help and realizing how much work it is (as some have said in other threads and online). I don't doubt that if one of the girls went to JB & J'chelle and told them they were struggling, those two would send one Johannah or Jordyn over to help out. 

Kendra not being pregnant really surprises me, I know she just had a baby but she and Joseph seem hooked on an IV of fundie kool aid. She had a positive birth and I always pegged them as most likely to have dozens of kids in rapid succession.

I wonder if they're trying but her fertility comes back more slowly. Her mom only had 8? Kids so far in about 20 years, so they may just not be able to immediately concieve after each birth, but still end up with a fairly large family.

[singsingsing]

20 minutes ago, BachelorToTheRapture said:

I wonder if they're trying but her fertility comes back more slowly. Her mom only had 8? Kids so far in about 20 years, so they may just not be able to immediately concieve after each birth, but still end up with a fairly large family.

See my post above. Garrett was only just born in June, so I'm really confused as to where this idea that it's surprising that Kendra hasn't announced again or that she may not reproduce that quickly is coming from. It's really early for her still.