Duggars by the Dozen 36: The Drought Has Ended with Jessa's Announcement

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

I thought you might be interested in this. I just saw this https://www.boredpanda.com/vegan-influencer-caught-eating-fish-video-reactions-yovana-mendoza-ayres/?cexp_id=16903&cexp_var=8&_f=featured&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

How crazy is that!?!?! Never trust a food influencer. She potentially harmed thousands of vulnerable people. It's not right.

Thank you!! Yes, I heard about it and think she did a lot of damage to the image of veganism. It’s not a balanced diet that caused her period to stop and her digestive system to deteriorate bit frequent month long water fasts followed by juice fasts and just too little nutrition. She’s a scam artist. 

[OyToTheVey]

3 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

Thank you!! Yes, I heard about it and think she did a lot of damage to the image of veganism. It’s not a balanced diet that caused her period to stop and her digestive system to deteriorate bit frequent month long water fasts followed by juice fasts and just too little nutrition. She’s a scam artist. 

25 day water cleanse is crazy! She has no nutritional education. She just did whatever she thought was "healthy". People listen to her too. You can be vegan and vegetarian but be super healthy, what she did was slowly kill herself and others. Look at India, isn't like 40% of the population strict vegetarians? One can not survive on raw cleanses for life. Instead of eating tofu and beans, she decided to sell and continue selling that one can live on watermelon alone. She ignored doctors orders. I'm just sad for the people who thought they were getting sound advice and ended up sick. 

BTW Idk tbh how anyone can think dietary information from instagram is a good idea 

[FluffySnowball]

26 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

25 day water cleanse is crazy! She has no nutritional education. She just did whatever she thought was "healthy". People listen to her too. You can be vegan and vegetarian but be super healthy, what she did was slowly kill herself and others. Look at India, isn't like 40% of the population strict vegetarians? One can not survive on raw cleanses for life. Instead of eating tofu and beans, she decided to sell and continue selling that one can live on watermelon alone. She ignored doctors orders. I'm just sad for the people who thought they were getting sound advice and ended up sick. 

BTW Idk tbh how anyone can think dietary information from instagram is a good idea 

Yeah, people making money giving weird dietary advices online should be taken with a grain of salt (pun intended).

Btw, FullyRawKristina recently posted a video talking about why she’s a virgin at 32. I’m totally in favor of making one’s very personal choices when it comes to sex and more broadly to sexuality, so I don’t judge the fact she hasn’t had sex yet. What I dislike is the way she framed it: she wants to stay pure and only give herself for one man who then deserves the gift of her virginity. Enjoying sexual fulfillment doesn’t make a woman impure and one doesn’t need to wait for marriage to have sex. That’s a personal choice - yet Kristina referenced her parents and their expectations as well... and they seem to expect she stays a virgin until she gets married. So, toxic purity thoughts aren’t exclusive to the obvious fundies. 

[singsingsing]

22 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

Btw, FullyRawKristina recently posted a video talking about why she’s a virgin at 32. I’m totally in favor of making one’s very personal choices when it comes to sex and more broadly to sexuality, so I don’t judge the fact she hasn’t had sex yet. What I dislike is the way she framed it: she wants to stay pure and only give herself for one man who then deserves the gift of her virginity. Enjoying sexual fulfillment doesn’t make a woman impure and one doesn’t need to wait for marriage to have sex. That’s a personal choice - yet Kristina referenced her parents and their expectations as well... and they seem to expect she stays a virgin until she gets married. So, toxic purity thoughts aren’t exclusive to the obvious fundies. 

So many people are not comfortable saying, "This is what works for me, so this is what I'm going to do." They have to justify it with some sort of lofty higher purpose, or shame others for not doing the same as them, in order to feel validated. I have no problem with someone holding personal religious beliefs that lead them to not have sex before marriage, just like I'd have no problem with someone holding personal religious beliefs that lead them to engage in ritual (consensual) sex with ten other people every solstice. You do you, but leave me out of it. When I was younger I was super insecure and upset that people believed and behaved differently than me. Eventually I matured and was able to see that I didn't need other people to justify me. If I was secure in what I believed was best for myself, that was enough.

[OyToTheVey]

@FluffySnowball @singsingsing Kristina ircc is half Lebonese, half south american. I assume she's some Catholic/Muslim mix. She should be comfortable saying this is what I want. But she's going into the fundie explanation of 'impure', I agree with both of you, it's just a toxic thought form from her. I worry about the super young girls that not only could develop an ED from her but also have develop this toxic view of their bodies and being impure.

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

@FluffySnowball @singsingsing Kristina ircc is half Lebonese, half south american. I assume she's some Catholic/Muslim mix. She should be comfortable saying this is what I want. But she's going into the fundie explanation of 'impure', I agree with both of you, it's just a toxic thought form from her. I worry about the super young girls that not only could develop an ED from her but also have develop this toxic view of their bodies and being impure.

There’s a large orthodox Christian minority in Libanon and Kristina is an orthodox Christian herself. There are no ancestral tries to Islam though, at least none that were ever mentioned. She did, however, talk about Christianity in her video and about the fact that her family expects he to keep her virginity until marriage. She even said in her 20s, she became a workaholic in order to suppress her sexual urges.

However, all that really isn’t my issue btw, it’s just this idea of sexual “purity” and saving yourself for a man who deserves the gift of your virginity that I felt were somewhat passive aggressive. 

[OyToTheVey]

5 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

However, all that really isn’t my issue btw, it’s just this idea of sexual “purity” and saving yourself for a man who deserves the gift of your virginity that I felt were somewhat passive aggressive. 

It's just creepy. Like why is a man so deserving of the gift of virginity that girls/women are made to feel this way. It's 2019, this thought process shouldn't still be around.

[FluffySnowball]

6 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

It's just creepy. Like why is a man so deserving of the gift of virginity that girls/women are made to feel this way. It's 2019, this thought process shouldn't still be around.

Yeah. She could make it about herself and say that she hasn’t met the man she feels she wants to have sex with. Then, that’s great she doesn’t let herself get pushed into anything but sticks to what makes HER comfortable. But the whole gift-marriage-parents talk was too much 

[Audrey2]

4 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Regarding: "You're not Catholic, why are you doing Lent?". I've been guilty of that one. But only to evangelicals who attacked me for becoming Catholic and routinely attack things like Lent because it is "not biblical" and then told me about how they and their megachurch are doing "40 days of __________" as a "pre-Easter discipline". So then, inevitably, I would pretty much say "uh...that would be a Lenten practice. You're not Catholic. Why are you doing Lent? It's not in the Bible". But, in general, I don't have a problem with it for those denominations who recognize and practice the season. 

Some Protestant denominations will re-baptize people. The one I (sort of) grew up in does if the person was not baptized by immersion--they are very strict that you must be completely dunked, hold your breath, whole head under. A lot of megachurches in my area will rebaptize if the person was baptized as an infant or very young child or, in some cases, in a denomination that they don't consider sufficiently "bible believing". 

The Catholic church recognizes any baptism done in the Trinitarian formula ("I baptize you in the name of the father, son and holy spirit") which covers most Protestant denominations. 

 

I was sprinkled when I was thirteen. Dunking (immersion) is not going to happen!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I do wonder if JB is going to make the twins marry twins just for the attention! I wondered that with John David and Jana, but obviously I was wrong.

Scary that hyperhyper little James is now almost old enough to marry! Yikes.

Poor Jana, the Sarah Maxwell of the family.

[SorenaJ]

43 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I do wonder if JB is going to make the twins marry twins just for the attention! I wondered that with John David and Jana, but obviously I was wrong.

The twins could marry another set of twins, Maggie and Carinna Burnett. It could be a double twin wedding! 

[just_ordinary]

On 3/25/2019 at 4:53 PM, OyToTheVey said:

[...]

BTW Idk tbh how anyone can think dietary information from instagram is a good idea 

This. It’s like people loose their common sense. Obviously it’s different with teenagers. We all had to learn not to believe everything we heard or read in magazines. Somehow adults (parents), friends and just growing up made us realise it. I am sometimes terrified how naive people are with internet content. 

[OyToTheVey]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

 I am sometimes terrified how naive people are with internet content. 

YESSS doubly yes! It just seems like if it's online people will believe it. WTF happened to being skeptical and not trusting strangers.

[fluffernutter]

On 3/26/2019 at 5:12 PM, SorenaJ said:

The twins could marry another set of twins, Maggie and Carinna Burnett. It could be a double twin wedding! 

OMG I can't even wrap my head around how long many seasons they would drag that out. A season for each twin's courting, two seasons for The Big Proposals, at least three for the weddings. 

[Smee]

I’m Protestant Christian from an atheist family married to a former Catholic, living in Australia. I’ve attended a few different churches over the years and worked for an organisation that created distance education materials for people who wanted to go into ministry. None of them considered Mormons or JWs to be “Christian” but Catholic and Orthodox, while we consider the theological differences significant enough to oppose, are still said to be Christian/“saved”. 

My church promotes “believer’s baptism” meaning that baptism is meant to be an outward symbol of a chosen commitment and is done to adults/teens who want it rather than babies. This does mean that people are sometimes re-baptised after converting from other denominations. Essentially, the idea is that you can’t ride on your parents’ faith, you have to choose it for yourself. However, accompanying this view is the idea that baptism itself doesn’t contribute to salvation and you can live as a Christian your whole life without being baptised if you want to. Full-immersion believer’s baptism is a requirement if you want to be a formal “member” which just means that you get a vote in business-like church matters - financial decisions, appointing a new pastor or deacon, that kind of thing. But if you don’t want to be involved in running the church, you can attend for years without baptism and people will still consider you a part of the church and a Christian. My husband has been a believer for over a decade and has no intention of having another baptism (he was baptised Catholic as an infant), while I did it a couple of years after I converted because I don’t consider my infant baptism (church of England) to have meant anything - to me OR my parents, who don’t consider themselves Christian. I didn’t become a formal member until maybe 6 or 7 years later, so that didn’t influence my decision at the time.

[kmachete14]

My Catholic high school never used the word "purity" but they did talk about saving virginity as a "gift" for your spouse. I was full of raging hormones and was horny all the time, so I basically just didn't listen. But looking back, most of their fear-mongering "facts" didn't even turn out to be true for me.

I've never had an STD, I don't imagine x number of other men in bed with me when I'm having sex with my fiancé, I didn't have unrealistic expectations of male anatomy from watching porn (nor does he expect me to look like a porn star), sex did not create an oxytocin bond to the point where I was unable to leave men who "weren't the one," and I still was able to "catch" a man who wanted to marriage and children. 

This is just my personal experience, but I find it funny how none of the predictions my religion teacher made about people who have premarital sex came true for me. 

 

[singsingsing]

A lot of people who make the personal choice to wait for marriage (or some other comparatively 'conservative' point) to have sex also find that messaging really creepy and terrible. I remember when I was in my early-mid 20s and still trying to do the conservative Christian thing, I'd see certain guys complaining that there were no girls left who were virgins/willing to wait for marriage, and I'd think, "Mm, no, there are actually a lot of us, we're just not interested in you. 'Cause your angry entitlement is disturbing, and it's kind of disgusting to be valued for the simple fact that you've never had a penis inside you."

I'll never forget when I was out at a bar just before I turned 20, and this dude was trying to put the moves on me. He asked me what the craziest sexual thing I'd ever done was, and I said, "Nothing, I'm a virgin," thinking that would shut him down. Instead he went, "Really? Wow! And you're how old? Wow, I actually respect you a lot more now!" I was so repulsed. Fuck you, dude.

[Smee]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

A lot of people who make the personal choice to wait for marriage (or some other comparatively 'conservative' point) to have sex also find that messaging really creepy and terrible. I remember when I was in my early-mid 20s and still trying to do the conservative Christian thing, I'd see certain guys complaining that there were no girls left who were virgins/willing to wait for marriage, and I'd think, "Mm, no, there are actually a lot of us, we're just not interested in you. 'Cause your angry entitlement is disturbing, and it's kind of disgusting to be valued for the simple fact that you've never had a penis inside you."

YES, so much yes. And like... accompanied by the caveat that “raped or sexually abused as a child doesn’t count” because reasons. What, rape victims can’t get STIs or pregnant? Don’t break their hymen? Won’t ever think of that awful experience the first time they have a consensual sexual experience with their spouse? 

You can say making a choice to have sex with someone is a significant decision and there’s often a strong emotional bond to it, without saying that it makes you “dirty” or catastrophising all possible futures if the relationship doesn’t last forever. I also find the “purity” narrative doesn’t explain why widowers and divorcees are also encouraged to remain celibate with future partners until they remarry.

I think there’s a large number of people who do have sex with serious partners, fiancées etc and who simply allow their church community to carry on believing they’re virgins because it’s really no one else’s business. And then they get married and no one cares anymore.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

I've never had an STD, I don't imagine x number of other men in bed with me when I'm having sex with my fiancé, I didn't have unrealistic expectations of male anatomy from watching porn (nor does he expect me to look like a porn star), sex did not create an oxytocin bond to the point where I was unable to leave men who "weren't the one," and I still was able to "catch" a man who wanted to marriage and children. 

I always wonder how/why they keep pushing this when the majority of people (secular and Christian) have had pre-marital sex and prove these claims wrong.

Tons of women are the ones doing the dumping in sexually active relationships. One quick glance around celebrities and society in general shows that non-virgin women have zero issue "catching" husbands. 

I wasn't a religious teen, and managed to escape the worst of Catholic sexual guilt. But I still found myself surprised after I lost my virginity to my boyfriend and a few weeks later was like "Meh, he's kinda annoying.  This probably isn't going to last."

And I've certainly proven time and time again since then that you can have sex with someone and feel zero oxytocin bond. ?

 

[Kelsey]

I had pre-marital sex and wish I hadn't.  Not because I feel impure or like a bad wife but because I don't feel I really made a decision to have the sex. It wasn't rape (I consented) but I consented for reasons that I wouldn't consider consenting for now (ie, want to make a man love me, want to piss of an ex, show I'm not a child anymore, etc) and I'd rather have consented because I really want (or wanted since this was well over 15 years ago) to have sex.

[Dreadcrumbs]

40 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I always wonder how/why they keep pushing this when the majority of people (secular and Christian) have had pre-marital sex and prove these claims wrong.

Because then they have to admit that their personal convictions are the only reason they've got left.

[Carm_88]

I've never understood the whole stigma around virginity. I didn't lose my virginity and go "I am now a woman! Everyone can tell that I have had a penis inside me." No, no one cared. It wasn't some special life changing moment for me. It was fine and I think that the whole concept of virginity being great is really harmful to women. The whole, you're special until you have sex and now because you have, you're not. 

[singsingsing]

Virginity is a meaningless social construct. If you don't believe me, just think about what it even means for a minute. Are you a virgin if you've never had PIV sex? Okay, well then what about people who've only had same-sex encounters - are they virgins? Is it just penetration in general? What about a couple who just doesn't have penetrative sex for whatever reason, but they engage in other sex acts - are they virgins? Is it just engaging in something sexual? Well, then where do you draw the line? If you get fingered, are you a virgin? What if you just had oral? What about sexting, fooling around via webcam? Masturbation? These are all sexual acts. If it's all about breaking the hymen for a women, well, you can break your hymen in plenty of ways that don't involve sex, and then how do you define it for men? The entire concept of "virginity" is VERY hetero-normative, very vague, very outdated, and very irrelevant. In general, its only use is as a weapon to shame.

(Also, I realize the irony of me discounting the entire concept of virginity when my user title is 'Virgin Who Can't Drive', but in my defence, Clueless is an awesome movie. )

[AtlanticTug]

I had two friends who, for different reasons, remained virgins into their late 20s. One of them was religious but not fundie-level, however, she was with her boyfriend who was VERY fundie from the end of high school, until a couple of years after college. They went to schools in different states and the thought was that they would marry after graduation, that summer, but she ended up going to graduate school, he had to work in his father's business and they sort of naturally drifted apart, then broke up when they were 25 or 26. Even though it wasn't overly dramatic, she was totally lost in life for a couple of years, very depressed and so on. By the time she got back into the dating scene for real she was 28. The other friend just always said that she was very awkward, didn't date in college, and only started dating at the end of med school. They both told me that they felt that the stigma was so enormous that they absolutely promised themselves they'd have sex with basically anyone before they turned 30 so they could feel "normal" if they were still dating in their 30s. I felt badly for both of them, because it seemed such a burden to carry around, really a social construct that can do a lot of damage.

[J.O.Y.nomore]

1 hour ago, AtlanticTug said:

I had two friends who, for different reasons, remained virgins into their late 20s. One of them was religious but not fundie-level, however, she was with her boyfriend who was VERY fundie from the end of high school, until a couple of years after college. They went to schools in different states and the thought was that they would marry after graduation, that summer, but she ended up going to graduate school, he had to work in his father's business and they sort of naturally drifted apart, then broke up when they were 25 or 26. Even though it wasn't overly dramatic, she was totally lost in life for a couple of years, very depressed and so on. By the time she got back into the dating scene for real she was 28. The other friend just always said that she was very awkward, didn't date in college, and only started dating at the end of med school. They both told me that they felt that the stigma was so enormous that they absolutely promised themselves they'd have sex with basically anyone before they turned 30 so they could feel "normal" if they were still dating in their 30s. I felt badly for both of them, because it seemed such a burden to carry around, really a social construct that can do a lot of damage.

My life is a mix of these two and I'm considering the same thing. I turn 29 this year.