Cardinal Pell found guilty of abuse

[Syriana]

Appeal dates set for the 11 and 12th of March

https://catholicleader.com.au/news/cardinal-pells-high-court-appeal-date-set-for-march

Quote

THE High Court of Australia has set a date to hear Cardinal George Pell’s leave to appeal against his conviction for child sex abuse offences committed in the 1990s, when he was the Archbishop of Melbourne.

The case will be heard on March 11 and 12 in Canberra, and is the final legal avenue for Australia’s most senior Catholic, who is serving a six-year sentence for sexually assaulting two 13-year-old choirboys in Melbourne’s St Patrick’s Cathedral.

Lawyers for the 78-year-old prelate are preparing for a hearing in which judges could reject Pell’s leave to appeal or might allow the appeal to proceed.

It means that a ruling could be announced at the end of the two-day hearing, or judgement could take several months.

Cardinal Pell’s case has attracted worldwide attention, and followed a Royal Commission into Institutional Child Sexual Abuse that was highly critical of the Catholic Church in its findings.

The Holy See’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is awaiting the High Court decision, with officials saying they will proceed with an investigation that could lead to a canonical trial.

The former Vatican treasurer was found guilty by a jury in December 2018 of five charges of abusing the choirboys, and was sentenced the following March.

He lost an appeal in August in Victoria’s Court of Appeal in which the judges’ decision was split 2-1.

The contested nature of that decision – two judges backed the jury’s verdict and the dissenting judge sided with Pell (pictured) – is at the forefront of his latest bid to overturn the convictions.

Pell’s defence team is expected to argue that two of the judges erred in their judgement because the crown case had relied on the evidence of just one complainant, a former choirboy now in his 30s.

Two of the judges found the former choirboy to be “very compelling” and someone who “was clearly not a liar, was not a fantasist and was a witness of truth”.

The third judge, Justice Mark Weinberg, however, found the victim’s account “contained discrepancies” and there was a “significant possibility” Pell did not commit the offences.

Pell’s lawyers are also expected to argue that the Supreme Court erred because it would have been impossible, beyond reasonable doubt, for the offending to have taken place – there was not enough time for Pell to have molested the boys in the priests’ sacristy during a five to six-minute period after Sunday Mass ended and the area became a “hive of activity”.

Normally, under the Church’s Code of Canon Law, a member of the clergy accused of abusing children faces a tribunal of up to five bishops casting judgment on the accused, but the pope also has the right to judge guilty clergy.

One hurdle if a canonical trial went ahead would be the access to primary evidence and testimony.

Cardinal Pell’s accuser would need to testify again before the tribunal, as well as witnesses in Pell’s defence.

And while Cardinal Pell remains behind bars, his appearance in front of a tribunal would be difficult.

Canon law states that a cleric who is found to have abused minors “is to be punished with just penalties, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state”.

 

[Ozlsn]

His conviction has been overturned by the High Court. Fuck me, can 2020 get any weirder?

[Mrs Ms]

Just read this on our regional news, not one of the national ones (in NZ) ?

Absolutely gutted, especially that he can’t be retried again. 

[Syriana]

I'm really not surprised that his conviction has been quashed, when you have 1 person saying 'he did this to me', many others saying 'that's impossible because of x/y/z' and a few decade's time gap, how do you get to a level of certainty that is beyond reasonable doubt?

This is a classic example of why sex crime cases can be so hard to prove even when they're not historical, all too often the prosecution rests on one person's testimony and little if any corroboration.  Being Catholic clergy is not admissible as evidence of guilt, even if some people think it ought to be.

[Syriana]

14 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Fuck me, can 2020 get any weirder?

Never say never...?

We have Donald Trump praying for Boris Johnson, Dominic Raab pretending he can lead a country and thousands of native English speakers who have forgotten basic English comprehension and can no longer understand 'stay at home except for food, medical treatment, work (if you can't work from home) and 1 hour excercise'.  Weirder must be possible.

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, Syriana said:

Never say never...?

We have Donald Trump praying for Boris Johnson, Dominic Raab pretending he can lead a country and thousands of native English speakers who have forgotten basic English comprehension and can no longer understand 'stay at home except for food, medical treatment, work (if you can't work from home) and 1 hour excercise'.  Weirder must be possible.

If Joe Exotic ends up as President I am starting to think I will not be surprised.

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, Syriana said:

I'm really not surprised that his conviction has been quashed, when you have 1 person saying 'he did this to me', many others saying 'that's impossible because of x/y/z' and a few decade's time gap, how do you get to a level of certainty that is beyond reasonable doubt?

This is a classic example of why sex crime cases can be so hard to prove even when they're not historical, all too often the prosecution rests on one person's testimony and little if any corroboration.  Being Catholic clergy is not admissible as evidence of guilt, even if some people think it ought to be.

I think what is pissing people off it that it is essentially getting off on a point of law rather than any determination of guilt. The High Court verdict essentially says "if you can cover it up for long enough then you can't be convicted because there's unlikely to be hard proof and memories are fallible." He went through two, quite major trials. He went through an appeal to the Victorian Court of Appeal. It's also that he is rich, has very influential friends and can access the High Court in a way that the majority of the population can't and so it's throwing a light on things that we don't often acknowledge about access in the justice system. 

And finally of course there's this:

Pell's lawyers previously used the defence that it was a "vanilla penetration" case, in which the choirboys were "not active participants".

Spoiler

Prior to the appeal, lawyers for the convicted child rapist had asked for leniency because the rapes were “no more than a plain vanilla sexual penetration case.”

Robert Richter, the lawyer for Cardinal Pell, told the court that the rape of two choir boys was no big deal, describing the crime as:

No more than a plain vanilla sexual penetration case where the child is not actively participating…

It feels a lot like taking every possible angle here.

[Gobsmacked]

I'm so glad we left the Caholic church 10 years ago. 

[Ozlsn]

So Pell died.  The overall reaction here appears to be "good riddance" with a small supporter contigent. Like most people my thoughts are with the victims - not just the ones he was accused of abusing but all the others around the world who suffered partly as a result of the "Melbourne model" which he developed in part to protect the church.

There are fresh ribbons at the front of St Pats, both here and in Ballarat, and ribbons at so many schools and churches. We remember the innocent.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I'm really pissed off at the funeral for Cardinal Pell. The church seems to have given him a normal funeral as if he hadn't resigned in disgrace. Pell both covered up sex abuse and committed sex abuse himself. All kinds of people trying to make him sound good.  

David Pell (a relative?) called Pell a "good man" during the eulogy.  

Here's link to an article:

Quote

Sydney Archbishop Anthony Fisher told the mourners at St. Mary’s Cathedral that the once third-highest-ranking cleric in the Vatican was the author of a dozen books including three volumes of a diary he wrote in prison before his child abuse convictions were overturned in 2000.

“That was one happy fruit from 404 days spent in prison for crimes he did not commit following a media, police and political campaign to punish him whether guilty or not,” said Fisher, a longtime supporter of the man he succeeded as Sydney archbishop.

and

Quote

Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, a friend of Pell and a former seminarian, described the cardinal’s prosecution as a “modern day crucifixion.”

In a different article, I saw Abbott refer to Pell as a saint.

Kudos to the protestors at the funeral, but shame on the Catholic church holding a big funeral instead of burying him as quietly and cheaply as possible.

[47of74]

24 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I'm really pissed off at the funeral for Cardinal Pell. The church seems to have given him a normal funeral as if he hadn't resigned in disgrace. Pell both covered up sex abuse and committed sex abuse himself. All kinds of people trying to make him sound good.  

David Pell (a relative?) called Pell a "good man" during the eulogy.  

Here's link to an article:

and

In a different article, I saw Abbott refer to Pell as a saint.

Kudos to the protestors at the funeral, but shame on the Catholic church holding a big funeral instead of burying him as quietly and cheaply as possible.

I wonder if Abbott is any relation to that fuck stick in Texas who doesn't give two fucking shits about the people in his own state.

[Ozlsn]

On 2/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Kudos to the protestors at the funeral, but shame on the Catholic church holding a big funeral instead of burying him as quietly and cheaply as possible.

Especially if any of his victims families were refused a service after completing suicide. And I am including every single case that Pell helped cover up, that he enabled by moving priests around, that were silenced using the Melbourne model as his victims here. 

Seriously if Brian Houston was charged for concealing child sexual abuse then Pell and half the church hierarchy at least should have been in the dock too.

Incidentally for I think the first time I heard an ad by a Slater&Gordon type firm (no cost unless we win) for historical child sexual abuse cases. I hope the Melbourne model comes back to bite the church.

On 2/3/2023 at 11:30 AM, 47of74 said:

I wonder if Abbott is any relation to that fuck stick in Texas who doesn't give two fucking shits about the people in his own state.

Maybe not blood but definitely in ideology. Unless you're male, Anglo and preferably a conservative Catholic you don't really count.