Jinjer 46: Felicity and Her Hair Coverings

[VelociRapture]

8 minutes ago, AstridM said:

That last part about his "devotion time" and how it can be a trap. What the hell is he even talking about? 

Apologies. Jeremy isn’t a great speaker, so it was tough trying to write it down clearly. And I was getting tired listening. 

I think he’s talking here about how Satan will try to sidetrack good Christians. His example about his morning devotion time continued on to include a part where one day he was asked to drive someone to the airport and it was during the time he usually sets aside for devotions. He says he originally didn’t want to because that’s his time with God (or something) and how that’s an example of Satan coming between good Christians and God’s teachings. He was being pious, but also selfish by choosing not to help someone who needed it and in so doing he failed to embody God’s true teachings of loving and caring for others as Jesus loves and cares for mankind.

[Carm_88]

Jeremy isn't going to be content to be the preacher of 12 people for long. That's not going to work for his ego, so he wants to spread that message to far more people. That plus the fact that people seem to gloss over the fact that he is so hateful and idiotic, makes him far more dangerous than Derick. 

[JordynDarby5]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Apologies. Jeremy isn’t a great speaker, so it was tough trying to write it down clearly. And I was getting tired listening. 

I think he’s talking here about how Satan will try to sidetrack good Christians. His example about his morning devotion time continued on to include a part where one day he was asked to drive someone to the airport and it was during the time he usually sets aside for devotions. He says he originally didn’t want to because that’s his time with God (or something) and how that’s an example of Satan coming between good Christians and God’s teachings. He was being pious, but also selfish by choosing not to help someone who needed it and in so doing he failed to embody God’s true teachings of loving and caring for others as Jesus loves and cares for mankind.

Great story Jeremy you drove someone to the airport. Way to leap out there in embracing God's true teachings. Certainly so much more moving and better then donating to charity, helping those in need or anything else. 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Thank you @VelociRapture for that recap, it must be remembered what creeps these fundies are.

FUCK YOU JEREMY!!!!!!    

 

[keepsweet]

On 12/14/2018 at 8:07 AM, VelociRapture said:

I think I’d make a bad Protestant (or at least a bad Fundie) because I never got the Mary hate. She’s one of the more relatable figures in the Bible in my opinion. I like that she obviously loves her son, but that she isn’t quiet about voicing her fears for him and that she also goes full stereotypical Jewish mother* by nagging him about the wine running out at that wedding. I’m guessing it’s just typical sexism at play or something - can’t have a mere woman being anywhere near as important as the manly son of a God. 

*This was how it was described in my New Testament as Literature course in college and it always makes me laugh because I immediately picture Jesus as Howard Wolowitz and Mary as Mrs. Wolowitz. 

Honoring Mary for being chosen as the Mother of the Savior and calling her blessed is a long stretch from the adoration that some communities of Catholics give to Mary.  Then we can go on to the hundreds of titles that she has "Our lady of this" "Our lady of that" , the number of holy days of obligations attributed to her and her so called immaculate conception that is celebrated on December the 8th and her perpetual virginity that sits wrong with a lot of people. These things can never be proven this side of heaven, so why would we let a bunch of men that have a thing for their other mother or (our lady as they call her often) make them up as something that all laity have to believe. Yes, to be a Catholic you check your own thoughts at the door and must accept the teachings of the magisterium of the Church. Hello, evil birth control and abortion.

As a person who converted to Catholicism years ago, for wrong reasons,  I think that some of it is what you have grown up with and are used to that makes you more comfortable.

 It's like whoever up thread said indulgences aren't a thing in her parish. Well Catholicism is world wide with hundreds of thousands of parishes. What goes on in one is not representative of another. The point is that indulgences are still very much an accepted practice and the current Pope offered one himself during his Jubilee of Mercy for walking through a door and the completing the other requirements to obtain it.

To obtain the Indulgence, the laity had to  take a brief pilgrimage to the Holy Door, that was open in every Cathedral or to one of the churches designated by the Diocesan Bishop, or one of the four Papal Basilicas in Rome, as a sign of deep desire for true conversion.

They also had to attend the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Holy Eucharist with a reflection on mercy within a week of it I believe and put their offering in unity with the pope and then they'd supposedly get the indulgence

There are many more indulgences still offered. Think "First Friday", "First Saturday".

You can't "buy" them, but you can most certainly do things to obtain them.

The fact that a deacon would be removed because a particular priest doesn't like indulgences, seems unlikely to be the only cause and if it was, not only would it be non-Christian to do so it would be very sad, honestly, since they are still a very real teaching in the Church and he was clearly doing his job by teaching about them. 

Many Catholics who have no desire to participate in certain aspects of the Church teachings like indulgences, or don't believe in the accepted apparitions etc.  will laugh and dismiss the questions when non-Catholics ask about them as if that was middle ages stuff.

You can still buy masses though (give a stipulated monetary gift) for souls in purgatory. Just google it and you'll find the places where you can buy them online and they'll be said by certain priests, usually ones that live in monasteries etc.

So ya it's still very much alive  in the Catholic Church and trust me when you are born and raised a Protestant, it is not something you can suddenly just accept, even if you thought you could. It was my biggest struggle as a Catholic, although the list doesn't stop there.

[keepsweet]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:54 PM, MargaretElliott said:

I volunteer with middle schoolers and high schoolers. I love them all dearly. They make me see the world through fresh eyes, without being jaded by the trials adulthood has thrown at me. They want to make the world a better place, and they haven't yet given up on the idea that they can.

They are also complete shitlords sometimes.

Motherhood is amazing, but it's also haaaaaaaard, I don't have any kids and I know that. Maybe Jinger is just pretending it's all rainbows and sunshine- she raised her siblings, after all- but yeah. This post is just an anti-abortion message tied up in a pretty Christian mommy blogger package. I think we're attributing the second part to Jeremy because it's easier to dislike him than Jinger, we want Jinger just to be the submissive tag-along, not coming up with hateful ideas herself... but let's face it. She believes the anti-choice rhetoric, too. Even if it was Jeremy who wrote that paragraph, she agrees with that sentiment, and she chose to post it on her social media. She may be our site's pet fundie, hence the name, but her beliefs are as rotten as the rest of them.

I think it's kind of insulting to Jinger that so many here think she couldn't articulate those thoughts on her own if that's what she believes. That it takes her "babe" to write it down for her. I think Jinger has shown herself to be her own person in some ways. She is still the one who went for the man that she knew full well was going to allow her to get in to those pants and possibly even hold off on having kids for the first year. Yes, there's a chance they just didn't get pregnant of course, but I'd honestly be surprised if that was why it took a while.

Personally, I believe Jinger wrote the post, but I don't believe they will be large quiverful family, because I don't think that would work for Jeremy or Jinger's lifestyle of choice.

Absolutely, they are very anti-abortion, but they will have absolutely no problem choosing when God will bless them and with how many. I'd say four at the most and that could be pushing it.

 Jeremy wants to be seen as an intellectual. He also seems very much about himself. Reading his books, sitting in his study where he can spend time contemplating  and preparing sermons to preach as well as jet setting around the country are up there high on his list of priorities in my opinion. That will prove more and more difficult if babies continue to come one after another. 

 I believe that Jinger told him up front that she didn't want a quiver full of little ones where she will be left behind doing all the work while he's off having all the fun. 

 

 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

@VelociRapture, I love you.  Platonically, of course. 

Grappa and Cognac are on their way carrying  and more  for you as a reward for suffering through that crap and managing to take notes for us.  

9 hours ago, AstridM said:

That last part about his "devotion time" and how it can be a trap. What the hell is he even talking about? 

Well, my dirty mind immediately went to the sin of Onan.  Spilling his seed upon the ground as a method of contraception. 

Unfortunately VR has clarified that he unselfishly cut his devotion time short to drive someone to the airport.  Big deal.

9 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Jeremy isn't going to be content to be the preacher of 12 people for long. That's not going to work for his ego, so he wants to spread that message to far more people. That plus the fact that people seem to gloss over the fact that he is so hateful and idiotic, makes him far more dangerous than Derick. 

He is more dangerous than Derrick because he comes in a more presentable package and doesn't spew his ugly beliefs indiscriminately on twitter.  I, and others, have been trying to point that out for years.

As for Jeremy's beliefs - they are typical of his kind of twisted "Christianity."  No surprises there.  

I do think he wants a bigger audience than Laredo.  I can see him hoping his sermons on Facebook will get him followers.  He gets very few comments on them though and probably a lot of his viewers are from FJ.

1 hour ago, keepsweet said:

I think Jinger has shown herself to be her own person in some ways. She is still the one who went for the man that she knew full well was going to allow her to get in to those pants and possibly even hold off on having kids for the first year. Yes, there's a chance they just didn't get pregnant of course, but I'd honestly be surprised if that was why it took a while.

Bless your optimistic little heart.  It is far more likely that Jinger wants as many babies God (and Jeremy) can give her, but Jeremy tracks her cycle and has frequent "headaches."   Or that she is simply not as fertile as her mother and sisters.  Or that he has a low sperm count. Those girls were raised Quiverfull and preventing babies would be an unbelievably huge leap for them.  They were raised to be wives and mothers.

As for the pants, it's true that she wouldn't be wearing them if Jeremy didn't approve.  But permission to dress more fashionably is hardly a good basis for marriage.  

That said, I think Jinger couldn't believe her luck when "intellectual," not bad looking, well off, soccer player Jeremy started making courtship noises.  But Jeremy probably loves her because she is, in his words, a meek follower, certainly not because she "went after" him.  That would have been utterly unGodly for a Fundie young lady.

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Apologies. Jeremy isn’t a great speaker, so it was tough trying to write it down clearly. And I was getting tired listening. 

I think he’s talking here about how Satan will try to sidetrack good Christians. His example about his morning devotion time continued on to include a part where one day he was asked to drive someone to the airport and it was during the time he usually sets aside for devotions. He says he originally didn’t want to because that’s his time with God (or something) and how that’s an example of Satan coming between good Christians and God’s teachings. He was being pious, but also selfish by choosing not to help someone who needed it and in so doing he failed to embody God’s true teachings of loving and caring for others as Jesus loves and cares for mankind.

WAIT- come on now. If one really thinks even for a millisecond that reading a bible/doing devotions is the more Christian thing to do, VS actually putting that faith into action by helping a friend, one needs to seriously think about how brainwashing works. Jeremy, there should not have been a moment's hesitation as to what would be the most Christian decision.

[louisa05]

I am forever amused that FJ gets so worked up about Jeremy Vuolo. As if there aren't a million Jeremy Vuolo's filling up all the evangelical mega churches in this country. 

Jeremies fix your cars and do your hair and deliver your mail and teach your kids in public school.

From Pew's Religion in America study in 2014, in 40 out of 50 U.S. states, at least 20% of the population identified as evangelical. Basically, unless you live in New England, New York or Utah, at least every fifth person you encounter every day identifies with Jeremy's belief system and sits through sermons from the likes of him at least 2 weeks out of every month.  Only Utah is below 10% and, well, the Mormons agree with him on all of that anyway. 

Could we stop pretending Jeremy is a uniquely evil little snowflake? He's just not. 

[VelociRapture]

41 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

I am forever amused that FJ gets so worked up about Jeremy Vuolo. As if there aren't a million Jeremy Vuolo's filling up all the evangelical mega churches in this country. 

Jeremies fix your cars and do your hair and deliver your mail and teach your kids in public school.

From Pew's Religion in America study in 2014, in 40 out of 50 U.S. states, at least 20% of the population identified as evangelical. Basically, unless you live in New England, New York or Utah, at least every fifth person you encounter every day identifies with Jeremy's belief system and sits through sermons from the likes of him at least 2 weeks out of every month.  Only Utah is below 10% and, well, the Mormons agree with him on all of that anyway. 

Could we stop pretending Jeremy is a uniquely evil little snowflake? He's just not. 

It doesn’t really matter to me if this type of thinking is common in some areas. If someone is publicly stating their hateful beliefs then they deserve to be called out for it - especially if that person holds a position of authority (as Jeremy does since he’s a Preacher) and/or has a reality tv show that reaches an international audience (as the Vuolos do.) 

Do I think Jeremy is the worst people ever? No. Do I think he’s a hateful bigot who deserves to be called out? Absolutely. 

[AtlanticTug]

1 hour ago, louisa05 said:

I am forever amused that FJ gets so worked up about Jeremy Vuolo. As if there aren't a million Jeremy Vuolo's filling up all the evangelical mega churches in this country. 

Jeremies fix your cars and do your hair and deliver your mail and teach your kids in public school.

From Pew's Religion in America study in 2014, in 40 out of 50 U.S. states, at least 20% of the population identified as evangelical. Basically, unless you live in New England, New York or Utah, at least every fifth person you encounter every day identifies with Jeremy's belief system and sits through sermons from the likes of him at least 2 weeks out of every month.  Only Utah is below 10% and, well, the Mormons agree with him on all of that anyway. 

Could we stop pretending Jeremy is a uniquely evil little snowflake? He's just not. 

Luckily for me (and based on your own exceptions above), there are very few fundies around here. Yes, it's a bubble, and we pay extraordinarily good $ to live in it, but it's hella lovely.

[Palimpsest]

39 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Do I think he’s a hateful bigot who deserves to be called out? Absolutely. 

He should be called out even more because he's a hateful bigot on an UnReality teevee show that tries to sanitise the beliefs and make them seem acceptable, just a little odd, and rather cute.  Jeremy should be called out for hypocrisy too.  He keeps his religious poison off screen.  Derick is at least honest about his ugly beliefs.

Even some posters on FJ still insist that Jeremy's beliefs are not really Fundie because, oh my, isn't it wonderful that Jinger wears pants.  And they can't possibly be quiverfull and must be family planning because it took Jinger a whole year to get pregnant. 

Yet scratch Jeremy's surface - and there's the ugly Fundie.

 

[Vivi_music]

58 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

It doesn’t really matter to me if this type of thinking is common in some areas. If someone is publicly stating their hateful beliefs then they deserve to be called out for it - especially if that person holds a position of authority (as Jeremy does since he’s a Preacher) and/or has a reality tv show that reaches an international audience (as the Vuolos do.) 

Do I think Jeremy is the worst people ever? No. Do I think he’s a hateful bigot who deserves to be called out? Absolutely.  

I don't think Louisa05 was saying that because a lot of people think that way, it is not to be called out. It certainly is important to challenge these people. Especially someone like Jeremy with a a place in the public eye and featured on a shiny and nice TV show.

I simply think she was stating that there are more people surrounding us with similar beliefs to Jeremy's than we think. Everyday people we come across, the local business owner, you neighbor across the street, the lady you see every week at Zumba, etc.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

The Dillard's and the Vuolo's are the same deep down, they have very specific like minded beliefs. The Dillard's are just upfront about them, and I'll give them credit for that. I prefer assholes show their asses to the world, versus them covering them up in pretty make up and making you think they are something else.  Jinjer are phonys. They are a all about appearances and they only care what other think of them. These two are as deep as a wadding pool. I'm not saying the Dillard's are better than the Vuolo's, they aren't, they are just more honest about their assiness. 

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

Luckily for me (and based on your own exceptions above), there are very few fundies around here. Yes, it's a bubble, and we pay extraordinarily good $ to live in it, but it's hella lovely.

Based on the exceptions above, there are very few Fundies in my neck of the woods too. Well except for what I suspect is an IFB missionary church plant in the strip mall down the road.  I keep a wary eye on them.

I'd like to keep this little corner of the world comparatively Fundie-free.  And to try to make them less popular and influential in the states that are infested with Fundamentalists.  That's why I will continue to call out the Jeremy's of this world.  

There are far too many of them around.

6 minutes ago, Vivi_music said:

I simply think she was stating that there are more people surrounding us with similar beliefs to Jeremy's than we think. Everyday people we come across, the local business owner, you neighbor across the street, the lady you see every week at Zumba, etc.

Thanks for the translation.  I hope you are correct about what Louisa meant to say.

[singsingsing]

Er... this is a forum devoted to discussing the dangers of religious fundamentalism. The fact that there are a lot of men like Jeremy out there doesn’t make him any better. In fact, that’s all the more reason to discuss how shitty his beliefs are - because a lot of people share them and they’re a threat to society.

[JingerSnaps]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I am forever amused that FJ gets so worked up about Jeremy Vuolo. As if there aren't a million Jeremy Vuolo's filling up all the evangelical mega churches in this country. 

Coming from the buckle of the Bible Belt, I agree Jeremy is a dime a dozen in these parts. I do my best to avoid the evangelicals, but that is hard when they are in every family, school, and social group. I’ve even had a former ATI home school student in my class and he wasn’t even the most fundamentalist student in his grade. 

I’m still all for calling out his hateful disgusting belief. Especially, since he has such a large public presence because of his wife. I come to FJ to remind myself that not every place is as dripping with fundamentalist and evangelicals and there are people that don’t agree with Jeremy’s type of hate. 

 

[AliceInFundyland]

45 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Er... this is a forum devoted to discussing the dangers of religious fundamentalism. The fact that there are a lot of men like Jeremy out there doesn’t make him any better. In fact, that’s all the more reason to discuss how shitty his beliefs are - because a lot of people share them and they’re a threat to society.

Right, this. If Jeremy Vuolo was washing my car I would probably be blissfully ignorant of his shitty beliefs. But has a lapel pin and multiple videos that remind us. So, we talk about it. 

On the other hand, props to VelociRapture, I have a hard time watching any of their videos. I think Jeremy is at the shallow end of the nutbar pool. To compete with some of our all time crazies he has his work cut out for him  

[SassyPants]

In my county, the largest % of Bernie Sanders voters in the 2016 primaries outside of Vermont, I'd venture to say that there are next to zero fundies. I'd say that we'd have more secular humanists.

[JingerSnaps]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

In my county, the largest % of Bernie Sanders voters in the 2016 primaries outside of Vermont, I'd venture to say that there are next to zero fundies. I'd say that we'd have more secular humanists.

In the school I teach at I have had a student tell me, “I’m sad you are going to go to hell for teaching evolution, cause you are really nice otherwise.” And she absolutely 100% meant it. As in she one of those kids I had a good connection with and she was truly sad for me. I’ve had numerous others tell me that dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to sow seeds of doubt.  

As an atheist I keep my non-belief completely to myself at work. I seriously think my job would be in jeopardy if I was an outspoken non-believer. The former superintendent of our very public school would even ask us to pray before our all schools staff meetings if there was a meal involved. It burned me up from the inside every time. 

I think there is definitely a divide within FJ depending on where you live. It’s hard to get overly worked up with a Jeremy when he seems just like any other evangelical asshole preacher down the street.  Extra crispy for sure, but nothing outside of the “normal” range in these parts. I, however, very much enjoy the other’s snark on him. 

[Four is Enough]

I'll never forget being in Nashville last year at the time of the            solar eclipse. Mr. Four and I ran into an elderly man and what appeared to be about a 14 year old grandson on the elevator. NOTHING about the eclipse, but the young man was hella excited to be going to the Ark Adventure or whatever that huge monstrosity is called. I started to say something funny about dinosaurs but then the kid started in all earnestness about Biblical truth, and I just prayed that they didn't get off after we did. That kid was so scripted that I knew this experience had been hyped to him for quite some time in very specific language,

[SassyPants]

Believe whatever you want, just don't tread on others or others' rights in the process. Most fundies seem unable to not breach this very crucial tenet. I guess they feel that those who do not believe exactly as they do will burn in hell??? I have a friend in the blogger world who is very, very, very Christian, yet also so Santa focused that I was a bit confused...until she explained that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th because that date was not specifically mentioned in the Bible. I hate the justification that fundies can always seem to pull out of their asses. 

[louisa05]

7 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

I don't think Louisa05 was saying that because a lot of people think that way, it is not to be called out. It certainly is important to challenge these people. Especially someone like Jeremy with a a place in the public eye and featured on a shiny and nice TV show.

I simply think she was stating that there are more people surrounding us with similar beliefs to Jeremy's than we think. Everyday people we come across, the local business owner, you neighbor across the street, the lady you see every week at Zumba, etc.

Exactly. Yet every time, something about Jeremy's world view comes up here, people react like it is uniquely abhorrent. It's not. It's every day evangelical abhorrent. And it's everywhere. The only state where at least 1 in 10 people don't identify with evangelicalism is Utah. And, well, yeah...

This is a significant segment of American society. You can fight Jeremy Vuolo on a message board all you want, but the 10-30% (depending on location) around you are still going to be there. 

I'm not saying that makes him okay. But the attitude here is that he's a reality show anomaly and that taking him down would be a win. It's not. He's one of millions. 

 

[singsingsing]

5 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Exactly. Yet every time, something about Jeremy's world view comes up here, people react like it is uniquely abhorrent.

I'm sorry, but I have never seen this here. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Jeremy's worldview is uniquely abhorrent by singling him out. He's an example. This is a subforum devoted to the Duggars, which is why we're discussing him in particular. But this forum and discussion most likely would not exist if anyone here believed that his worldview was unique, because in that case we'd just think he was a lone kook. The fact that he's one of millions is the reason that we're discussing his beliefs. He's an example of all the others who believe the same thing. The difference is that he has a voice and a following. That's why we're discussing him and not the 999,999 others.

By the way, I strongly disagree that 'taking him down' (whatever that means - I'm going to interpret it as either changing his mind or changing the minds of a substantial number of the people who believe him) wouldn't be a win. It absolutely would. Changing one person's mind can have an enormous ripple effect. Even just in their own life, changing one person's mind can have an incredible impact on their family, friends, colleagues, the people they meet on a day to day basis, etc. 

[singsingsing]

@louisa05, again, I'm sorry, I'm just a bit baffled. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't discuss the toxic beliefs that Jeremy holds and is trying to force on the rest of the world, and take him to task for that, because millions of other people hold those same beliefs? Or is it that you think there's a more effective way of discussing it?