Jinjer 46: Felicity and Her Hair Coverings

[SweetJuly]

1 hour ago, lumpentheologie said:

I vote Felicity for cutest Duggar baby.  (Although Gideon is a close second.) Those chubby legs and that smile just pull at my childfree heartstrings.

Granted, 5 months is peak-cuteness in babies, so she's got an advantage here

[PainfullyAware]

I think any group that is indoctrinated to be second-class citizens who are submissive to others have a harder time then the dominant group. It's just another layer of mindfuckery.

I always feel uncomfortable with the "girls are worse teenagers" narrative. It seems too close to the "women are overly emotional and irrational" stereotype. Maybe because women express emotions more openly in our society, it just seems like their teen years are more intense?

I kept my grades high enough that my parents didn't look too closely at the fact I skipped classes, smoked pot, and went to parties with binge drinking (aka "sleep overs"). I tend to think of all that as pretty harmless and typical teen stuff though. For some of my friends that was practically angelic and for others it counted as being extremely badly behaved. It really depended on what crowd you were with.

[Palimpsest]

On 12/17/2018 at 12:57 AM, cascarones said:

Timeline wise, Jeremy moved to San Antonio when Vision Forum (based here) was still big. Vision Forum imploded in 2013/2014 and splintered into a lot of smaller strip mall churches/ home churches. Probably how he wound up at GCC, so I would assume his target would be something along the lines of reuniting the ex VF crowd into a restyled larger church. Recruited probably through the homeschool groups, guest preaching, Bible studies, podcasts and the Christian exercise scene here that's becoming a popular form of fellowship at the mega church gyms. Cycling with a Purpose, Fitness for Christ.

Also, worth noting that the Sutherland Springs church massacre happened right outside of San Antonio, driving even more dad preaches at home/live streaming and home schooling. 

 Given how many mega churches San Antonio already has I'm not sure if it's his end goal, his preaching style is far too dense to pair with a light show and rock worship band. Oak Hills (Max Lucado) and Cornerstone would be my guess, Max Lucado has trashed on Ebil Catholics every time I've gone. I know Jeremy is familiar with his writing at least.

CBC seems to be where most ex Catholics wind up, besides Episcopalians and Methodists, Catholics are used as the example of doing everything wrong/ aren't real Christians. A friend's parent got elected to be the president of a Lutheran church by campaigning on a "I hate Catholics the most" platform.

A few major inaccuracies and wrong assumptions here that I think need to be corrected.

As far as we know Jeremy was never associated with Vision Forum, which was indeed based out of San Antonio.  Vision Forum Ministries was never a "church" and had no congregation.  See below for more details.*

As far as I know Grace Community Church in San Antonio was never associated with VF either, although some members of its congregation may have attended VF functions.  GCC San Antonio is a very big church with a rather scary roster of beliefs and an even scarier big roster of preachers.  https://gccsatx.com/

Jeremy ended up in San Antonio in April 2013 when he signed up with the San Antonio Scorpions.  Soccer - not because of anything to do with VF.  Presumably he started attending Grace Community Church then.  He was dropped from the team at some point and decided to go into full time "ministry." 

Jeremy does not live in San Antonio.  He was sent to Laredo by GCC San Antonio as an assistant pastor to a teeny-tiny church plant.  Laredo is 150 miles from San Antonio.  A good 2.5 hour drive.  He got promoted to pastor but, as I said earlier, he doesn't seem very interested in Laredo or his tiny congregation there.  He seems to spend a lot of time back in San Antonio.

Jeremy is a sardine in the puddle of GCC Laredo, which is connected to the bigger fish pond of GCC San Antonio.   GCC San Antonio has a few sharks in that pond who could snap Jeremy up in one bite.

Jeremy is small fry.  It's rather funny to think that Jeremy's "target" would be reuniting the former VF crowd.  They are long gone - and didn't really exist as a congregation anyway. 

* We have a thread over in QoS talking about whether anything will replace VFM.  I'm pretty darn sure it won't be Jeremy Vuolo.  Jeremy has the charisma of a dead sardine compared to Doug the Tool at his flamboyant best. 

Vision Forum Ministries was an interdenominational parachurch organisation that spread its wings quite widely.   It was big on Biblical Patriarchy but its major activities (the Christian Film Festival and Doug's for-profit catalog sales business, Vision Forum Inc.) appealed to a broad spectrum of fundamentalists and evangelicals.  Doug Phillips pastored his own little church, Boerne Christian Assembly (BCA).  He ruled BCA with a rod of Patriarchal iron.

Vision Forum indeed imploded in October 2013 with Doug's admission of an "inappropriate affair" and Doug was ousted both from VF leadership and BCA.  However, its fans did not "splinter off" into different churches.  They were already attending many different churches and probably just stayed put.  A handful of people left BCA but it was a very small congregation anyway, perhaps 100 at most.

[AliceInFundyland]

@Palimpsest Your attention to detail and recall on matters such as these is extremely helpful.

[Palimpsest]

Thanks, @AliceInFundyland.  I've been trying to figure out this stuff for years!  Fundamentalism in the US is like a giant octopus with far more than eight legs all sprawled out and tangling themselves up.  Chop off one leg and forty more sprout out.

Don't get me wrong, I think Jeremy probably is very ambitious.  He probably would love to have his own megachurch one day.  Or even his own parachurch organisation like VF or NCFIC.  But, if he does, he's going the wrong way about it.  If he doesn't make a success of GCC Laredo, he'll have to slink off and reinvent himself as a preacher of a different flavor.  But his work ethic at GCC Laredo seems ... lacking.

And if you ever try to listen to Jeremy's lengthy pseudo-intellectual sermons - nah.  He's never going to make it!

 

 

[VelociRapture]

34 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Thanks, @AliceInFundyland.  I've been trying to figure out this stuff for years!  Fundamentalism in the US is like a giant octopus with far more than eight legs all sprawled out and tangling themselves up.  Chop off one leg and forty more sprout out.

Don't get me wrong, I think Jeremy probably is very ambitious.  He probably would love to have his own megachurch one day.  Or even his own parachurch organisation like VF or NCFIC.  But, if he does, he's going the wrong way about it.  If he doesn't make a success of GCC Laredo, he'll have to slink off and reinvent himself as a preacher of a different flavor.  But his work ethic at GCC Laredo seems ... lacking.

And if you ever try to listen to Jeremy's lengthy pseudo-intellectual sermons - nah.  He's never going to make it!

 

 

I could not agree more with this. I still haven’t managed to listen to more of his sermons, but the one I did listen to (about abortion) was equal parts horrifying and boring. Homeboy may look nice, but I really don’t think he’s an effective communicator. 

[Palimpsest]

20 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Homeboy may look nice, but I really don’t think he’s an effective communicator. 

I don't even think he looks that nice.  And damn it, I now have an earworm.  I have to share the pain.

"How do you solve a problem like Vuolo?
How do you teach a pastor how to preach?
How do you find the word that means Vuolo?
A failed soccer player? A terrible speaker? A leech?"

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I don't even think he looks that nice.  And damn it, I now have an earworm.  I have to share the pain.

"How do you solve a problem like Vuolo?
How do you teach a pastor how to preach?
How do you find the word that means Vuolo?
A failed soccer player? A terrible speaker? A leech?"

SNAP- I was going to mention that first sentence.

[Iamtheway]

I did find him pretty attractive when I first saw him but the more I learn about his believs the less attractive he gets. Funny how the ugly inside can shine through like that. 

[Palimpsest]

17 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

I did find him pretty attractive when I first saw him but the more I learn about his believs the less attractive he gets. Funny how the ugly inside can shine through like that. 

He's not my type.  But the ugly really does shine through once he opens his mouth and shares his beliefs.

[VelociRapture]

29 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

He's not my type.  But the ugly really does shine through once he opens his mouth and shares his beliefs.

What can I say? I have a weakness for dark haired Italian guys. I even married one - though thankfully my husband is just a sweet Brooklyn boy rather than a patriarchal asshole. 

I’m currently about halfway through a 35 minute Bible Study video he did back in early 2016. It’s slightly more interesting since other people talk every so often. I’m hoping to have that synopsis ready in the next few days. It depends on when I can get a bit of time to finish up. I’m hoping other posters more knowledgeable will be able to explain exactly what he likely means and how it might relate to their overall beliefs.

[AussieKrissy]

8 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I don't even think he looks that nice.  And damn it, I now have an earworm.  I have to share the pain.

"How do you solve a problem like Vuolo?
How do you teach a pastor how to preach?
How do you find the word that means Vuolo?
A failed soccer player? A terrible speaker? A leech?"

you win the internet for today. I did lol at this 

[VelociRapture]

21 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

What can I say? I have a weakness for dark haired Italian guys. I even married one - though thankfully my husband is just a sweet Brooklyn boy rather than a patriarchal asshole. 

I’m currently about halfway through a 35 minute Bible Study video he did back in early 2016. It’s slightly more interesting since other people talk every so often. I’m hoping to have that synopsis ready in the next few days. It depends on when I can get a bit of time to finish up. I’m hoping other posters more knowledgeable will be able to explain exactly what he likely means and how it might relate to their overall beliefs.

Quoting myself.

I finished watching the Bible Study and I’m working on transcribing my notes onto the phone. Where does everyone want this posted when I’m finished - here or in a new thread?

[Four is Enough]

Felicity looks cute. That little outfit looks hand crocheted. I wonder if a fan made it.

[grandmadugger]

I see Jeremy wanting to be the next Joel Osteen. He’s got a lot of work to do and it appears none of the work ethics to pull it off. 

[VelociRapture]

I’ve decided to just post this here. 

FJ Proudly Presents - VelociRapture Listens to Jeremy Preach (So You Don’t Have To)

Raising Children God’s Way (1): Principles and Problems

Aka. Eat your Transphobic little heart out Derick

Aka. Hold my root beer Derick, I got some shit to say about Transgender people

Link to Bible Study: https://youtu.be/G8j3JU5g3UE

Considering that JinJer are parents now, I thought this would be a good place to start. This was recorded during a Bible Study held on February 29, 2016 - less than a year before JinJer got married and about two months after they got permission to get to know one another better. The description says this was the first part in a new series, “Raising Children God’s Way.” The book used to outline the study was based off a set of sermons by the late David Martyn Lloyd-Jones of Westminster Chapel. Since it’s a Bible Study there’s a lot of questions and answers. I’m doing my best to keep things clear and straight, but I may mess up anyways. 

I included a few screenshots of Biblical verses quoted during this Bible Study. I don’t know what translation GCC Laredo uses, so I just went with whatever I could find. This’ll give you a basic idea though. 

Jeremy starts by having someone read the first four lines of Ephesians Chapter 6:

Jeremy explains this portion is where Paul is speaking directly to children about their relationship with their parents. He states that Paul’s epistles begin with the laying out of doctrine and end with Paul applying that doctrine practically. 

Jeremy jumps back to Ephesians Five because I think this is where Paul lays out doctrine for Chapter Six or something. Jeremy claims Paul discusses unity of body here. How to relate to a dark world when we’re made of light. In Verse 22, he says that Paul starts talking about husbands and wives.  I guess Chapter Five covers how to conduct yourself in a Christian marriage and that then segues into the parent/child relationship bit in Chapter Six.

Chapter one on the outline is titled, “The Submissive Child,” which immediately raises my hackles because Fundies. Lloyd-Jones apparently laid out two great principles here:

1. Do not be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit

Jeremy says alcohol determines how you speak, act, etc. and that the Holy Spirit does the same. Allowing the Holy Spirit to dominate you will give you the ability to do what God wants. Apparently submitting to the Holy Spirit is necessary for this. Some things anyone can obey, but others require you to be saved and dominated by the Holy Spirit.

(Side note: I’m giggling because all this domination and submission talk sounds like a really crappy romance novel.)

Jeremy: “We are going to see as we talk about children and parents that the world, the unnatural man, the unspiritual man can not obey these commands.”

Jeremy discusses how Jesus came to serve, not to be served and how it’s not natural for humans to be able to obey without help from the Holy Spirit. Basic idea seems to be that humans are sinful little shits who will only do good when the HolySpirit forces them to. 

Jeremy defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. Marriage brings ultimate joy and God gave us that law. So all your LGBTQ+ folk out there are sinful and wrong according to Jeremy, which is a view that should be shocking to literally no one since he chose to marry a Duggar. 

9:45 minute mark. I can feel my brain slowly turning to mush and leaking out my ear.

Jeremy: “What does man say? Well, I want to use my sexuality how I want to use it. And I want to put it all over because I’ll enjoy it more.”

God gave us laws and we rebel because fallen nature. You must be saved and a Christian to be able to obey God’s laws is what he’s basically saying that Paul is claiming. 

2. 21st verse - Submitting to one another out of reverence to Christ.

Submitting to everyone by laying down your own rights as opposed to claiming them. He claims Christians consider others more important than themselves not for the other person’s sake, but for Jesus’ sake since that’s what Jesus did for mankind. He claims Jesus’ rights were to stay in Heaven burning people (you get a smiting! And you get a smiting!), but he opted to lay those rights down for our sake instead. I think I’d rather be a Godless heathen doing nice things because I care about others, not because I want to be like Jesus or avoid being ended via smiting.

Someone asks what they mean by the term “submit.” Jeremy asks what the people think, a man responds, and Jeremy seems to agree - “submitting” is looking to Christ to see how to live rather than doing what you want. Another guy says it’s a “giving in.” 

(Sidenote: Apparently a cop named Joe was in attendance at this Bible Study. Jeremy specifically mentions him when discussing how Police often tell people to “submit” when they’re resisting arrest.)

Now at the 18 minute mark. Morale is low. Hope is dwindling. Please send alcohol because I want to be dominated by its will or something.

So there are two problems in parenting according to Lloyd-Jones.

1. The world is the first.

Jeremy: “We are living in a world which is witnessing an alarming breakdown in the matter of discipline.”

Total collapse of civilization and society. No respect in which it’s more evident than the relationship between parents and children. 

Jeremy asks how this us demonstrated in our culture today. One man mentions child emancipation (he worded it as divorce, but I think this is what he meant.) Another mentions kids having kids, which leads Jeremy to agree and mention seeing that a lot at the GCC Laredo Pregnancy Center (I really hope that’s not true because I don’t trust them to offer actual help or reliable information to anyone, especially pregnant teens.) He also mentions Joe (the cop) seeing domestic abuse on the job.  

Jeremy now mentions a recent lunch he had with Esteban (who is in attendance) at Chick Fil’A (of course it was Chick Fil’A.) A young couple was sitting nearby with their kids, Esteban was hitting Jeremy with all sorts of insights (which Jeremy never explains in detail because he admits he wasn’t listening), and Jeremy suddenly realized that the couple were just kids with kids. Jeremy sat there thinking, “He doesn’t know how to be a Dad. He doesn’t know how to love that little girl. He’s just a kid himself!”

(Side note: Pretty ballsy and judgemental as fuck statement for a guy who wasn’t married or a parent himself at the time to make about people he literally does not know.)

A woman says God’s word states that corporal punishment is a good way to discipline children, but the world views it as abuse. MAYBE BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS SHARON (also, I’ve decided her name is Sharon and that she has that “I want to speak with your Manager,” haircut. Apologies to all the Sharons reading this.) She also mentions kids not knowing there are consequences for their actions. Jeremy agrees and says that Biblically mandated punishment causes no physical harm to a child. He backtracks a bit and says some people do it wrong and do cause harm (whipping and lash marks are used as an example here), but that when done right Biblically mandated punishment leaves no physical harm. 

Jeremy: “But Biblically mandated discipline has absolutely no physical consequence to the child and it’s to drive the foolishness from them and it’s called abuse in our day.”

(Side note: Please note how Jeremy makes absolutely no mention of the emotional and psychological harm physical punishment can cause. I’m willing to bet this is because he doesn’t think that’s a thing and that he really doesn’t care.)

*TRANSPHOBE ALERT!* - At the 21:50 mark now.

I’m starting to think this is never going to end. Someone please send me some ear plugs because his voice is really starting to annoy me.

He’s married to a Duggar and is a Uber conservative Christian, so I knew this was bound to pop up eventually. Jeremy mentions the Keswani Family. I think they have a web series or reality show titled, “The Keswanis: A Most Modern Family.” I did my best to quote Jeremy directly here. Bolded words are examples of trying to frame being Transgender into a choice (it’s not), while underlined words are examples of misgendering: 

“One of the - the little boy was five years old and decided that he didn’t want to be a boy anymore, but now he wants to be a girl. So now Devin is Devina and the kid has told his parents and determined well, I’m not really a boy, I’m a girl. And so the parents say well ok, if you’re a girl you’re a girl and so they go along with it. Well that’s a - a sign of the child is ruling. The parents have no discipline over the child or no instruction of what’s right and wrong. It’s just whatever you feel you do and now you’ve got a child who’s barely come to cognitive understanding of the world the last couple of years determining how they were created is wrong and now they’re gonna redo that.”

(Side note: You’ll have to excuse this next bit. I have a Transgender brother.)

FUCK YOU JEREMY YOU DISGUSTING AND PRETENTIOUS PIECE OF SHIT! You know absolutely nothing about this topic - sit down, shut your fucking mouth, and educate yourself before you dare say anything again. 

(Side note 2: I feel like this is, in someways, worse than what Derick has said about Jazz Jennings. Both of them are assholes for going after children, but at least Derick did so in a very public manner - he got called out like crazy for that, whereas Jeremy has pretty much quietly skated by without people noticing these beliefs. Not to mention that Jazz is in her late teens and fully capable of defending herself. Devina was only six when Jeremy held this Bible Study. What type of asshole goes after a six year old?!)

A man mentions schools and states embracing Transgender people as a problem. Jeremy agrees. Imma just sit here and continue screaming into the void. 

Another man mentions fathers - absent fathers and fathers who don’t do what they should. He also mentions fathers who are workaholics or spend too much time at the bar. This guy also states that boys don’t know their identity and girls without strong fathers don’t know what to look for in a man (because finding a man is obviously the only thing that matters for girls.) Nice how they just completely ignore the fact that some parents have no choice but to work crazy hours because they don’t want their kids to starve.

At the 24 minute mark now. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve wanted to swear. 

Jeremy says that God ordained the man to lead the family and that’s disintegrating when the man isn’t there. He then mentions laws allowing younger and younger girls to get abortions without parental approval and ads that are directed specifically towards children as ways of subverting parental authority. Basically, Jeremy thinks families are just breaking down like crazy.

Romans 1:28-32:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Paul spoke of these things, so it’s not new stuff. Society is turning their backs on God by not following Biblical mandates.

Jeremy: “Our society is one that is propagating the disobedience of parents, the independence of children and it falls right in line with this litany of sins that Paul mentions as God giving people over because they don’t see fit to acknowledge him.”

2nd Timothy 3:1-5.

Spoiler

Paul is apparently describing the period between the first and second comings of Jesus here - so modern times fall within this range. One thing described is disobedience to parents. “This is the world, this is the fallen world, this is a major problem. The parents, or children not respecting their parents. There’s this lack of discipline, this breakdown in societal order...” Jeremy claims you’ll raise a criminal if you don’t discipline your kid or tell them no, which kind of seems like a stretch to me. Now he’s saying that Lloyd-Jones stated that Christian parents and children can witness to the world simply by being different. I assume that means throwing tantrums over coffee cups that aren’t Jesus-y enough and acting like you’re being persecuted constantly in a country where you’re the majority religion. 

We’re now 30 minutes in. I didn’t think he could get more annoying, but I was wrong. I assume he’s just naturally talented at being obnoxious. 

2. The Church. You know how Satan was apparently building a fortress in Josh’s heart and that made him want to cheat on Anna? Well that’s kind of what Jeremy sounds like he’s saying about the Church here. According to this portion, Satan is seeking to come in and sidetrack good Christians and the Church with error - because Satan is a sneaky little shit like that.

Jeremy has someone read Matthew 15:1-9, which I have here:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

I guess this is talking about how people were looking for a way to not take care of their elderly parents? They gave money to the Church as a way to get around taking care of their parents - it was a pious way around the commandment about honoring your parents. Jeremy is very worked up about this part. He calls it a subtle deception and agrees with a man who says its subtle because it has an element of truth to it that’s twisted to their benefit.

Jeremy gives an example of a modern day Uber Christian who always gets to Church 15 minutes early, but who ignores a beggar asking for help because he doesn’t want to be late. You neglect love and mercy so you are perceived as pious and religious.

Jeremy gives an example from his own life: “I get set in my morning devotion time and I love my morning devotion time. And I’m on a trajectory of ok, this time is for this and this and this. And I get into that pattern and I like it, it’s good, it’s profitable. But it can get unchecked and Satan can subtly come in and start to deceive you to make that time all about my time with God is set apart to the neglect of love and weightier matters.”

Jeremy: “Satan has subtle ways of coming into your and my religion.” We need this proper instruction on child/parent relationships to avoid falling prey to either temptation in the “Pagan” world (he’s used that term a few times now) or subtle temptations in the Church.

They close in prayer and I gratefully shut that crap off. 

[SassyPants]

34 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I’ve decided to just post this here. 

FJ Proudly Presents - VelociRapture Listens to Jeremy Preach (So You Don’t Have To)

Raising Children God’s Way (1): Principles and Problems

Aka. Eat your Transphobic little heart out Derick

Aka. Hold my root beer Derick, I got some shit to say about Transgender people

Link to Bible Study: https://youtu.be/G8j3JU5g3UE

Considering that JinJer are parents now, I thought this would be a good place to start. This was recorded during a Bible Study held on February 29, 2016 - less than a year before JinJer got married and about two months after they got permission to get to know one another better. The description says this was the first part in a new series, “Raising Children God’s Way.” The book used to outline the study was based off a set of sermons by the late David Martyn Lloyd-Jones of Westminster Chapel. Since it’s a Bible Study there’s a lot of questions and answers. I’m doing my best to keep things clear and straight, but I may mess up anyways. 

I included a few screenshots of Biblical verses quoted during this Bible Study. I don’t know what translation GCC Laredo uses, so I just went with whatever I could find. This’ll give you a basic idea though. 

Jeremy starts by having someone read the first four lines of Ephesians Chapter 6:

Jeremy explains this portion is where Paul is speaking directly to children about their relationship with their parents. He states that Paul’s epistles begin with the laying out of doctrine and end with Paul applying that doctrine practically. 

Jeremy jumps back to Ephesians Five because I think this is where Paul lays out doctrine for Chapter Six or something. Jeremy claims Paul discusses unity of body here. How to relate to a dark world when we’re made of light. In Verse 22, he says that Paul starts talking about husbands and wives.  I guess Chapter Five covers how to conduct yourself in a Christian marriage and that then segues into the parent/child relationship bit in Chapter Six.

Chapter one on the outline is titled, “The Submissive Child,” which immediately raises my hackles because Fundies. Lloyd-Jones apparently laid out two great principles here:

1. Do not be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit

Jeremy says alcohol determines how you speak, act, etc. and that the Holy Spirit does the same. Allowing the Holy Spirit to dominate you will give you the ability to do what God wants. Apparently submitting to the Holy Spirit is necessary for this. Some things anyone can obey, but others require you to be saved and dominated by the Holy Spirit.

(Side note: I’m giggling because all this domination and submission talk sounds like a really crappy romance novel.)

Jeremy: “We are going to see as we talk about children and parents that the world, the unnatural man, the unspiritual man can not obey these commands.”

Jeremy discusses how Jesus came to serve, not to be served and how it’s not natural for humans to be able to obey without help from the Holy Spirit. Basic idea seems to be that humans are sinful little shits who will only do good when the HolySpirit forces them to. 

Jeremy defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. Marriage brings ultimate joy and God gave us that law. So all your LGBTQ+ folk out there are sinful and wrong according to Jeremy, which is a view that should be shocking to literally no one since he chose to marry a Duggar. 

9:45 minute mark. I can feel my brain slowly turning to mush and leaking out my ear.

Jeremy: “What does man say? Well, I want to use my sexuality how I want to use it. And I want to put it all over because I’ll enjoy it more.”

God gave us laws and we rebel because fallen nature. You must be saved and a Christian to be able to obey God’s laws is what he’s basically saying that Paul is claiming. 

2. 21st verse - Submitting to one another out of reverence to Christ.

Submitting to everyone by laying down your own rights as opposed to claiming them. He claims Christians consider others more important than themselves not for the other person’s sake, but for Jesus’ sake since that’s what Jesus did for mankind. He claims Jesus’ rights were to stay in Heaven burning people (you get a smiting! And you get a smiting!), but he opted to lay those rights down for our sake instead. I think I’d rather be a Godless heathen doing nice things because I care about others, not because I want to be like Jesus or avoid being ended via smiting.

Someone asks what they mean by the term “submit.” Jeremy asks what the people think, a man responds, and Jeremy seems to agree - “submitting” is looking to Christ to see how to live rather than doing what you want. Another guy says it’s a “giving in.” 

(Sidenote: Apparently a cop named Joe was in attendance at this Bible Study. Jeremy specifically mentions him when discussing how Police often tell people to “submit” when they’re resisting arrest.)

Now at the 18 minute mark. Morale is low. Hope is dwindling. Please send alcohol because I want to be dominated by its will or something.

So there are two problems in parenting according to Lloyd-Jones.

1. The world is the first.

Jeremy: “We are living in a world which is witnessing an alarming breakdown in the matter of discipline.”

Total collapse of civilization and society. No respect in which it’s more evident than the relationship between parents and children. 

Jeremy asks how this us demonstrated in our culture today. One man mentions child emancipation (he worded it as divorce, but I think this is what he meant.) Another mentions kids having kids, which leads Jeremy to agree and mention seeing that a lot at the GCC Laredo Pregnancy Center (I really hope that’s not true because I don’t trust them to offer actual help or reliable information to anyone, especially pregnant teens.) He also mentions Joe (the cop) seeing domestic abuse on the job.  

Jeremy now mentions a recent lunch he had with Esteban (who is in attendance) at Chick Fil’A (of course it was Chick Fil’A.) A young couple was sitting nearby with their kids, Esteban was hitting Jeremy with all sorts of insights (which Jeremy never explains in detail because he admits he wasn’t listening), and Jeremy suddenly realized that the couple were just kids with kids. Jeremy sat there thinking, “He doesn’t know how to be a Dad. He doesn’t know how to love that little girl. He’s just a kid himself!”

(Side note: Pretty ballsy and judgemental as fuck statement for a guy who wasn’t married or a parent himself at the time to make about people he literally does not know.)

A woman says God’s word states that corporal punishment is a good way to discipline children, but the world views it as abuse. MAYBE BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS SHARON (also, I’ve decided her name is Sharon and that she has that “I want to speak with your Manager,” haircut. Apologies to all the Sharons reading this.) She also mentions kids not knowing there are consequences for their actions. Jeremy agrees and says that Biblically mandated punishment causes no physical harm to a child. He backtracks a bit and says some people do it wrong and do cause harm (whipping and lash marks are used as an example here), but that when done right Biblically mandated punishment leaves no physical harm. 

Jeremy: “But Biblically mandated discipline has absolutely no physical consequence to the child and it’s to drive the foolishness from them and it’s called abuse in our day.”

(Side note: Please note how Jeremy makes absolutely no mention of the emotional and psychological harm physical punishment can cause. I’m willing to bet this is because he doesn’t think that’s a thing and that he really doesn’t care.)

*TRANSPHOBE ALERT!* - At the 21:50 mark now.

I’m starting to think this is never going to end. Someone please send me some ear plugs because his voice is really starting to annoy me.

He’s married to a Duggar and is a Uber conservative Christian, so I knew this was bound to pop up eventually. Jeremy mentions the Keswani Family. I think they have a web series or reality show titled, “The Keswanis: A Most Modern Family.” I did my best to quote Jeremy directly here. Bolded words are examples of trying to frame being Transgender into a choice (it’s not), while underlined words are examples of misgendering: 

“One of the - the little boy was five years old and decided that he didn’t want to be a boy anymore, but now he wants to be a girl. So now Devin is Devina and the kid has told his parents and determined well, I’m not really a boy, I’m a girl. And so the parents say well ok, if you’re a girl you’re a girl and so they go along with it. Well that’s a - a sign of the child is ruling. The parents have no discipline over the child or no instruction of what’s right and wrong. It’s just whatever you feel you do and now you’ve got a child who’s barely come to cognitive understanding of the world the last couple of years determining how they were created is wrong and now they’re gonna redo that.”

(Side note: You’ll have to excuse this next bit. I have a Transgender brother.)

FUCK YOU JEREMY YOU DISGUSTING AND PRETENTIOUS PIECE OF SHIT! You know absolutely nothing about this topic - sit down, shut your fucking mouth, and educate yourself before you dare say anything again. 

(Side note 2: I feel like this is, in someways, worse than what Derick has said about Jazz Jennings. Both of them are assholes for going after children, but at least Derick did so in a very public manner - he got called out like crazy for that, whereas Jeremy has pretty much quietly skated by without people noticing these beliefs. Not to mention that Jazz is in her late teens and fully capable of defending herself. Devina was only six when Jeremy held this Bible Study. What type of asshole goes after a six year old?!)

A man mentions schools and states embracing Transgender people as a problem. Jeremy agrees. Imma just sit here and continue screaming into the void. 

Another man mentions fathers - absent fathers and fathers who don’t do what they should. He also mentions fathers who are workaholics or spend too much time at the bar. This guy also states that boys don’t know their identity and girls without strong fathers don’t know what to look for in a man (because finding a man is obviously the only thing that matters for girls.) Nice how they just completely ignore the fact that some parents have no choice but to work crazy hours because they don’t want their kids to starve.

At the 24 minute mark now. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve wanted to swear. 

Jeremy says that God ordained the man to lead the family and that’s disintegrating when the man isn’t there. He then mentions laws allowing younger and younger girls to get abortions without parental approval and ads that are directed specifically towards children as ways of subverting parental authority. Basically, Jeremy thinks families are just breaking down like crazy.

Romans 1:28-32:

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Paul spoke of these things, so it’s not new stuff. Society is turning their backs on God by not following Biblical mandates.

Jeremy: “Our society is one that is propagating the disobedience of parents, the independence of children and it falls right in line with this litany of sins that Paul mentions as God giving people over because they don’t see fit to acknowledge him.”

2nd Timothy 3:1-5.

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Paul is apparently describing the period between the first and second comings of Jesus here - so modern times fall within this range. One thing described is disobedience to parents. “This is the world, this is the fallen world, this is a major problem. The parents, or children not respecting their parents. There’s this lack of discipline, this breakdown in societal order...” Jeremy claims you’ll raise a criminal if you don’t discipline your kid or tell them no, which kind of seems like a stretch to me. Now he’s saying that Lloyd-Jones stared that Christian parents and children can witness to the world simply by being different. I assume that means throwing tantrums over coffee cups that are Jesus-y enough and acting like you’re being persecuted constantly in a country where you’re the majority religion. 

We’re now 30 minutes in. I didn’t think he could get more annoying, but I was wrong. I assume he’s just naturally talented at being obnoxious. 

2. The Church. You know how Satan was apparently building a fortress in Josh’s heart and that made him want to cheat on Anna? Well that’s kind of what Jeremy sounds like he’s saying about the Church here. According to this portion, Satan is seeking to come in and sidetrack good Christians and the Church with error - because Satan is a sneaky little shit like that.

Jeremy has someone read Matthew 15:1-9, which I have here:

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I guess this is talking about how people were looking for a way to not take care of their elderly parents? They gave money to the Church as a way to get around taking care of their parents - it was a pious way around the commandment about honoring your parents. Jeremy is very worked up about this part. He calls it a subtle deception and agrees with a man who says its subtle because it has an element of truth to it that’s twisted to their benefit.

Jeremy gives an example of a modern day Uber Christian who always gets to Church 15 minutes early, but who ignores a beggar asking for help because he doesn’t want to be late. You neglect love and mercy so you are perceived as pious and religious.

Jeremy gives an example from his own life: “I get set in my morning devotion time and I love my morning devotion time. And I’m on a trajectory of ok, this time is for this and this and this. And I get into that pattern and I like it, it’s good, it’s profitable. But it can get unchecked and Satan can subtly come in and start to deceive you to make that time all about my time with God is set apart to the neglect of love and weightier matters.”

Jeremy: “Satan has subtle ways of coming into your and my religion.” We need this proper instruction on child/parent relationships to avoid falling prey to either temptation in the “Pagan” world (he’s used that term a few times now) or subtle temptations in the Church.

They close in prayer and I gratefully shut that crap off. 

Kids having kid, I present you: Josh/Anna, Kendra, Joy, Ben... P-L-E-A-S-E!

[Iamtheway]

@VelociRapture I don’t know how you sat through that shitfest. Well done! Hope you have wine and a snack to comfort yourself with now. The minutes it took me to read your recap was a few minutes too much for me. But it is good to have a reminder about what’s going on behind the shiny instagram pics. 

I often forget about their views, because I have met so few people like them in my life I have trouble believing people like this actually exist in 2018, and that they can walk around among us looking totally normal. They often seem like fiction, right out of The Handmaid’s Tale, to me. 

Thanks for taking one for the team! ???

[treehugger]

@VelociRapture, I feel like you deserve all the wine in the world for listening to that vile shit. What an asshole.  

[SassyPants]

@VelociRapture I think JV is worse than DD because it's one thing to have the beliefs, but preaching those beliefs from the pulpit adds another layer of revolting.

[AtlanticTug]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

@VelociRapture I think JV is worse than DD because it's one thing to have the beliefs, but preaching those beliefs from the pulpit adds another layer of revolting.

I've always said this. JV is far worse. He appears to be educated and put together, he has his own church (even if it's like 2 dozen people), he has the "look" to be the preacher of a much larger congregation, his studies alone will validate him in the eyes of his minions, etc. Derick is an unpolished, foulmouthed idiot. They are a dime a dozen, they've scurried out of the darkness like rodents since Trump came into power so they feel entitled to voice what they would at least before internalize in polite company. But Derick isn't going to influence anyone or change anyone's mind, or really do anything other than be a laughingstock.

JV is vile and dangerous and Jinger will be no better.

[VelociRapture]

@Iamtheway @treehugger I actually can’t drink alcohol because it triggers my anxiety. The fact that I’d be willing to risk a panic attack should tell everyone just how bad this really was. 

[marmalade]

It's Jinger's birthday. Jeremy posted a typical high-falutin' message. The Duggars also remembered her, barely.

Jeremy's live on FB now if anyone can stomach it (edit...it's Christmas music...Jinger appears to be on the piano, but Jeremy isn't reading the bible verses).

Thanks to @VelociRapture for taking one for the team.

[BachelorToTheRapture]

Thanks @VelociRapture!! That was maddening to read about. I have no clue how you could stomach watching it. 

Thanks for reminding us what a disgusting, slimy asshole Jeremy truly is, and how he is promoting child abuse and transphobia to people who actually listen to him. One of the worst duggars, imo, just because he can spread these awful beliefs.

[AstridM]

That last part about his "devotion time" and how it can be a trap. What the hell is he even talking about?