Chelsy and John Maxwell 6: They're More Frightened of Her than Ashamed

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

10 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think she will keep photodumping as her main blogging. I think she might do photo dump within a month though. I can’t help but think she will be the stereotypical super excited first time mom who takes a ton of pictures of her baby. 

Seasoned mom over here who takes a TON of pictures of *every* baby. 

8 hours ago, SPHASH said:

I hope Coward Steve doesn't make Stud John and Judgy Chelsy feel guilty for Axton's allegedly difficult birth since they didn't have a no touch courtship.  You know, sins of the father are visited upon the children.  If I remember right Griselda Teri thought maybe that was the issue with Crazy Eyed Nate and Wonder Woman Melanie with the infertility issues and Susannah's passing as they also eschewed the no touch courtship.

Any idea where you remember that from? I have never, ever come across that before. As questionable as the Maxwells can be, that sounds pretty out of character for them. 

[SPHASH]

5 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Seasoned mom over here who takes a TON of pictures of *every* baby. 

Any idea where you remember that from? I have never, ever come across that before. As questionable as the Maxwells can be, that sounds pretty out of character for them. 

Maybe it was my imagination but I thought I read a post where after Susannah died they questioned if they had been sinful and that's why it happened.  I tried finding the post last night but didn't.

[PennySycamore]

@SPHASH,  if they did think that being "sinful" was why Susannah died, that is so sad.  It compounds the tragedy, in my opinion.  Sometimes babies die and sometimes there's a medical reason that you know and sometimes there's not, but unless you murder your child, you did not cause his/her death.

[Dru]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:44 AM, SPHASH said:

Maybe it was my imagination but I thought I read a post where after Susannah died they questioned if they had been sinful and that's why it happened.  I tried finding the post last night but didn't.

I've often wondered if this combined with Mel and Nate's fertility issues is why Chris and Joe opted for super chaste no touch chaperoned courtships. Nathan and Melanie saved their first kiss (if I recall correctly) but they weren't no touch and spent time alone together.

[formergothardite]

On 2/13/2019 at 3:24 AM, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Any idea where you remember that from? I have never, ever come across that before. As questionable as the Maxwells can be, that sounds pretty out of character for them. 

I'm not sure if the Maxwells taught it, but IBLP did teach that Satan attacked the children through the father's hidden sins. 

Quote

When Satan binds a father through hidden sin, he is free to enter the lives of each family member to torment them. Struggles in a child’s life such as rebellion, lying, fears, moral failures, and other problems are often a direct result of hidden sins in the father’s life.

Quote

If the enemy can bind the father through hidden moral failure, he can then easily plunder the father’s “goods”—his wife and children.

The leader in this situation is the father. 

Quote

When a leader fails, he is no longer protecting those under his care, and therefore they are exposed to the attacks of Satan. Those under authority may feel the impact of the leader’s failure so acutely that they notice the problem even before the leader himself is aware of it. The attacks of the enemy can be manifested in many forms, including health problems, overwhelming temptations, unusual cycles of doubt or depression, nightmares, or unexplained conflicts.

This cause-and-effect sequence should motivate leaders to make wise decisions and live uprightly, because even their “hidden” sins can bring harm to those under their care. 

Quote

Also, we should acknowledge the iniquities of our forefathers, repent of our own sins, and endeavor to overcome the tendencies toward specific sins that we have inherited. While we are not held responsible for the sins of our ancestors, we are susceptible to their areas of weakness and should be alert to these inclinations.

The Maxwells did spend some time in IBLP when the kids were younger, but I do not know how many of the principles they adopted. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

It seems like this way of thinking would happen amongst fundies even outside of IBLP. I only say that because fundies spend so much time talking about sins that some fundies must blame themselves for things they had no control over. I think it’s probably a way of feeling more in control. 

[fundiefan]

On 2/14/2019 at 1:15 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It seems like this way of thinking would happen amongst fundies even outside of IBLP. I only say that because fundies spend so much time talking about sins that some fundies must blame themselves for things they had no control over. I think it’s probably a way of feeling more in control. 

My mind honestly cannot even go there. I believe it's a disturbed mind that does. 

A woman I work with just had a baby, via surrogate. I didn't know the history until this week. She has something called Unicornuate uterus. I won't even try to explain what I was told in conversation as I don't understand it at all. 

At any rate, she has a physical condition that resulted in multiple miscarriages and one live birth so premature the baby lived less than 24 hours. They chose surrogate to have genetic children. They just had one and have frozen embryos to try for another at a later date. They are exploring adoption but haven't made solid decisions as of yet. 

She was born with this condition. It's how she was "formed in the womb". So, did she commit some sin at conception that made some god mess with her insides? Did her mother or father do something so sinful that their god twisted and manipulated the organs of their child? 

I see religion as a whole as a way for people to have some control over the uncontrollable - life. It came to exist, in my opinion, out of human being's inability to accept the unknown, death, the meaning of life. To even take that very broad religious reasoning and apply it to minute' details of life makes me sick. It literally turns my stomach. How the f*ck can one live their life believing their god controls it all - and punishes? Punishes the most basic of "Christian" tenents - childbirth? 

If there is a human being walking this earth with genetic or biological defects/issues/anomalys - I hope they have no religion in their life blaming them and making them suffer even more. 

 

[nomoxian]

On 2/14/2019 at 7:38 PM, Dru said:

I've often wondered if this combined with Mel and Nate's fertility issues is why Chris and Joe opted for super chaste no touch chaperoned courtships. Nathan and Melanie saved their first kiss (if I recall correctly) but they weren't no touch and spent time alone together.

Ah, yes; touching before marriage - the number one reason people go to fertility clinics!

I wonder if touching the in-seconds-to-be wife to put the ring on her hand nullifies the No Touch rule.

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, fundiefan said:

Did her mother or father do something so sinful that their god twisted and manipulated the organs of their child? 

And who would worship a god like that?

(A friend of mine has the same thing. Her child was born at 25 weeks, and is now a happy, healthy kid. But he will be an only child because they are not going through that again.)

[JermajestyDuggar]

My friend has a bicornate uterus. I believe it’s also called a heart shaped uterus. That was god showing his love with a heart! No. Actually it caused one of her children to be born very premature. So I doubt it was god showing his love with a heart shaped womb. 

[daisyjane1234]

Sadly people believe that sin and illness/disability are connected even beyond extreme fundamentalism - but it can be rampant in those communities.

 

My MA and PhD work are in the areas of disability/ethics/theology.  My MA worked looked specifically at the spiritual experiences of parents raising really complicated kids.  They were often told their child's health challenges were linked to some unknown sin., and this happened even in mainstream churches.  I am a mother of a very disabled child who attends a mainstream denomination.  The stuff I have heard could (and probably will) write a book. 


I believe it is a form of spiritual abuse and that abuse is part of the evil of our world.  


 

[browngrl]

9 hours ago, fundiefan said:

Unicornuate uterus. I won't even try to explain what I was told in conversation as I don't understand it at all. 

In the fetus (between 6- 11 weeks) two paired structures called the Mullerian ducts form the uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix and part of the vagina. Parts of the Mullerian ducts fuse together and parts are resorbed and anomalies in this process can give rise to several variants in anatomy. 

A normal uterus has a triangle shape which makes sense when you think of two ducts joining together.A unicornuate uterus looks more like a single tube - which it is as only one of the Mullerian ducts develops completely (the other duct may be absent or be present as a rudimentary structure). 

Fun fact: before 6 weeks a male and female fetus are indistinguishable as they both have the structures which give rise to male and female parts. After 6 weeks, a fetus with a Y chromosome will produce a factor which causes the structures (i.e. the Mullerian ducts) which give rise to female parts to regress and testosterone supports the development of the structures which give rise to male parts. No Y chromosome/testosterone and you end up with female parts. So in a way, female is the default.  What would fundies think of this (if they bothered with science)?

[PennySycamore]

@daisyjane1234,  I've shared this before but not recently:  After our premie daughter died in 1988, we got the odious book "Why Your Baby is in Heave" in the mail one day.  There was no sender listed.  We lived in a neighbor where we had lots of fundie neighbors and we were Catholic at the time.  This just of this piece of shit was that God had taken our daughter so that we might be "saved".  Yeah,  I wanted no part of any God that would do something like that.  My husband threw the book in the garbage where it belonged.  

Btw, none of our fundie neighbors came to either the wake or the funeral.  

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

14 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

 

Btw, none of our fundie neighbors came to either the wake or the funeral.  

Well fuck them, you don’t need those kind at the funeral.  I am so sorry your baby died.  

[PennySycamore]

@Don'tlikekoolaid,  one of our neighbors did have a good excuse because she was the pianist for her church's VBS the morning of Katherine's funeral.  Our next door neighbors, though?  No excuse at all other than we were Catholic and they might get Papist cooties from being in a Catholic church.  I don't miss those neighbors at all!

[daisyjane1234]

Penny.  I am so very sorry for your loss and for the callous response of so-called Christians. I am always astounded by what comes out of peoples' mouths.  My personal favourite (in our situation) was when someone said to my face, and in front of my son, that his disabilities were a result of the devil. 

People say things so their faith can remain untouched, even when that means perverting God and hurting others.  

Peace to you.

[Captain Obvious]

Chelsy posted a pic on Insta of her and Ax-Max at the nursing home church. 

So there goes the hope that she and John would find a regular church to go to. She must be committed to demonstrate her assimilation into the Borg if she’s forgoing a big church with lots of friends, and where the pastor was a friend of hers, in favour of hanging around with the same family members she sees every day and listening to Steve drone on incoherently about how great Maxwellism is.

[JermajestyDuggar]

27 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Chelsy posted a pic on Insta of her and Ax-Max at the nursing home church. 

So there goes the hope that she and John would find a regular church to go to. She must be committed to demonstrate her assimilation into the Borg if she’s forgoing a big church with lots of friends, and where the pastor was a friend of hers, in favour of hanging around with the same family members she sees every day and listening to Steve drone on incoherently about how great Maxwellism is.

I wonder if she hasn’t bothered to find a new church in Leavenworth because they have been gone so much their first year of marriage. 

[VVV]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wonder if she hasn’t bothered to find a new church in Leavenworth because they have been gone so much their first year of marriage. 

It's also possible that they do have another church on the sly; large churches often have Saturday evening services and/or lots of small groups that meet in homes. I don't think it's likely but one can hope.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/14/2019 at 2:15 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

It seems like this way of thinking would happen amongst fundies even outside of IBLP. I only say that because fundies spend so much time talking about sins that some fundies must blame themselves for things they had no control over. I think it’s probably a way of feeling more in control. 

Late to the game, but I have to honestly say I doubt Steve preaches this. I think part of him is still too logical and scientific to buy into that one. The Maxwells do take full advantage of modern medical and dental care and Steve knows as a former Degreed Engineer that medical science is real and that sometimes things just happen - though in his case, God let it happen.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Late to the game, but I have to honestly say I doubt Steve preaches this. I think part of him is still too logical and scientific to buy into that one. The Maxwells do take full advantage of modern medical and dental care and Steve knows as a former Degreed Engineer that medical science is real and that sometimes things just happen - though in his case, God let it happen.

I don't think so either. And I really don't think a claim like Teri wondering if Susannah's passing was due to eschewing a no-touch courtship should be made without some evidence to back it up. "IIRC correctly" doesn't cut it. Some time researching the blog should be done before spreading such a thing. 

[Granwych]

On 2/14/2019 at 1:38 PM, Dru said:

I've often wondered if this combined with Mel and Nate's fertility issues is why Chris and Joe opted for super chaste no touch chaperoned courtships. Nathan and Melanie saved their first kiss (if I recall correctly) but they weren't no touch and spent time alone together.

Nah, Priss and Smug were just parading about, broadcasting what godly young fellows they were.  And taking lots of cold showers, probably.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I don't think so either. And I really don't think a claim like Teri wondering if Susannah's passing was due to eschewing a no-touch courtship should be made without some evidence to back it up. "IIRC correctly" doesn't cut it. Some time researching the blog should be done before spreading such a thing. 

I agree.  They have so many legit vile beliefs and actions and embellishment dilutes the real hate.

[Ozlsn]

19 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Chelsy posted a pic on Insta of her and Ax-Max at the nursing home church. 

So there goes the hope that she and John would find a regular church to go to. She must be committed to demonstrate her assimilation into the Borg if she’s forgoing a big church with lots of friends, and where the pastor was a friend of hers, in favour of hanging around with the same family members she sees every day and listening to Steve drone on incoherently about how great Maxwellism is.

I'm kind of hoping the nursing home folk have been taking an interest in the pregnancy and new baby and she went to show him off to all the people she's met there. In which case I hope it made all of them (Chelsy, nursing home people, John) really happy.

[nelliebelle1197]

5 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I don't think so either. And I really don't think a claim like Teri wondering if Susannah's passing was due to eschewing a no-touch courtship should be made without some evidence to back it up. "IIRC correctly" doesn't cut it. Some time researching the blog should be done before spreading such a thing. 

I have been pretty deep into Maxwellia and read every single thread here and I never recall this. Maxwells were actually my gateway to FJ. I am not as versed in the Corners as @Palimpsest but that just does not sound like Teri.