Duggars by the Dozen 35: Five Months with no Pregnant Duggars. How much longer will it last?

[BachelorToTheRapture]

I'm one of five, and close to 3 of my siblings. I loved growing up in a big family most of the time, even when money was tight. My parents (especially my mom) have a lot of issues and it was (and is) so nice to have people who understand to talk about them with. I have said it's either no kids or at least 2, in part because I would want my kids to have siblings to grow up with, though it'll likely be no kids for me. It also makes visiting my parents easier, I usually go with at least one other sibling. I've seen the close relationship that my dad has with his brother, and one of his sister's in the past few years and hope to have that in my future and for my kids, it's so good to have someone who's known you forever who knows your whole life and values to talk to about your life.

[justodd]

To everyone who’s said or implied that those who are estranged from their siblings “doesn’t appreciate what they could have,” I have to ask: would you encourage a woman to remain with a spouse who beat her? Do you think someone giving birth to a child is the end all be all in determining what’s best for that child, if they’re being seriously abused at home? I’m not psychic, but I’d bet good money most of you would say no. My mother has three living children. I don’t speak to either of the other two unless forced, and if you think that’s a choice that was made capriciously, without a lot of heartache and pushback, you’re deluded. I know that may sound harsh, but it’s the only word I can think of that even comes close. Mom’s other daughter is a mentally unstable abuser who’s pushed away almost everyone she’s ever known, and only ever contacts me when she wants something. I literally can not think of a single kindness she has shown to me in at least the last fifteen years - not even when our mother was in the ICU and I was at her bedside almost every minute with holes in my shoes and no money to feed myself. Her son is a monster who (as a 45 year old father of three) still sees nothing wrong with the fact that as a teenager, he used to pick my nine-year old self up and hurl me into the wall like a cannonball. He also thinks he was in the right for locking me away from light, food, and bathroom facilities at that same age because he didn’t think he should have to be bothered watching his little sister when he could be riding his bike, instead. He has committed multiple, borderline obsessive, invasions of my personal privacy as an adult, up to and including hunting down anonymous blogs and attempting to hack my Facebook account. Believe me - I KNOW what I would have, if I hadn’t cut ties with them, and believe me even more when I say that I am infinitely better off without it. I have to defend my choices regarding them way more than I should, given the severity of their actions, and every time that I counter someone (including, yes, my mother) by asking if they’d still be so adamant if the abuser I left was a lover, the answer is always some pathetic variation of “but family...” 

FJ is FULL of commentary on how disappointing it is when Josh shows up at family events. If you’ve ever made one, but still find yourself otherwise being in the “they just don’t appreciate their siblings” camp, please, think about that for a while, and see if you can understand that Josh’s situation is (sadly) not  terribly unique, that there are many, many non-fundie families with horrible dynamics that really do make severing ties the best choice one can make. Try and find some compassion for those who, like me, may wish they had people to celebrate holidays with, but have to go it alone because the trade off is constant abuse and anguish. It’s not an easy choice to make, and it’s one you’re never really allowed to stop defending. 

Blood may be thicker than water, but only one is usually safe to drink. 

[fluffernutter]

I'm an only child and I never minded as a kid but now, in my middle age years, I am pretty lonely, especially around holidays or celebrations. My mom died in her early 50's. My dad kind of turned into a hermit after that and never comes around and my aunts/uncles/cousins are not close. We might see them once every ten years. So it's allllll about my husband's family.  Our oldest is getting married and our portion of the guest list is all his family. Not one from mine. This really bothered me.  I feel kind of alone sometimes. 

[GutenbergGirl]

3 hours ago, justodd said:

Blood may be thicker than water, but only one is usually safe to drink. 

Wholeheartedly agree!!  I am also sorry for those of you who have had to struggle with the decision.  It was pretty cut and dried with me. 

My only sibling raped me for years, starting when I was in 2nd grade.  Nah, I'm definitely not missing out. 

If anything, HE is missing out on a kick ass sister who takes no crap, fosters kids, dogs, and cats, owns and operates a business, and helps take care of a handicapped cousin, my mother in law with dementia, and my bipolar mother.  In addition to my own lupus and insulin dependent diabetes. 

Damn, no wonder I am so tired!  ? 

I am also probably, totally inappropriately tooting my own horn.  Eh, I just like rubbing it in his face a bit, that I am a decent human while he is a.... Not Nice Person. 

[Kailash]

@GutenbergGirl I am so sorry your brother did that to you. I hope no one ever tries to defend what he did. 

[cascarones]

14 hours ago, eveandadam said:

I cannot count the amount of times I was blamed for being egoistic, strange, and unsocial just after someone learnt that I have no siblings.

Growing up only children definitely had their behavior blamed on it, I think for kids it's whatever is different about someone must be why whenever their actions weren't liked. Though in hindsight, one of the girls in my study abroad group of friends was an inconsiderate narcissist and we blamed it on her only having one sibling. That girl also didn't consider half siblings, step siblings or adopted siblings as "real".

It was definitely more extreme than what I got for being the only girl or the baby if I was acting spoiled or messing up social cues. I expect Confetti will have being twins as the scapegoat reason/ annoyance question. Maybe not though, multiples are more common now with fertility treatment being less stigmatized and more financially accessible than it was 30 years ago. 

@GutenbergGirl and @justodd I'm so sorry for what happened in your childhoods, I'm glad you both had the strength and ability to cut your abusers out of your life. Hugs.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, justodd said:

To everyone who’s said or implied that those who are estranged from their siblings “doesn’t appreciate what they could have,” I have to ask: would you encourage a woman to remain with a spouse who beat her? Do you think someone giving birth to a child is the end all be all in determining what’s best for that child, if they’re being seriously abused at home? I’m not psychic, but I’d bet good money most of you would say no. My mother has three living children. I don’t speak to either of the other two unless forced, and if you think that’s a choice that was made capriciously, without a lot of heartache and pushback, you’re deluded. I know that may sound harsh, but it’s the only word I can think of that even comes close. Mom’s other daughter is a mentally unstable abuser who’s pushed away almost everyone she’s ever known, and only ever contacts me when she wants something. I literally can not think of a single kindness she has shown to me in at least the last fifteen years - not even when our mother was in the ICU and I was at her bedside almost every minute with holes in my shoes and no money to feed myself. Her son is a monster who (as a 45 year old father of three) still sees nothing wrong with the fact that as a teenager, he used to pick my nine-year old self up and hurl me into the wall like a cannonball. He also thinks he was in the right for locking me away from light, food, and bathroom facilities at that same age because he didn’t think he should have to be bothered watching his little sister when he could be riding his bike, instead. He has committed multiple, borderline obsessive, invasions of my personal privacy as an adult, up to and including hunting down anonymous blogs and attempting to hack my Facebook account. Believe me - I KNOW what I would have, if I hadn’t cut ties with them, and believe me even more when I say that I am infinitely better off without it. I have to defend my choices regarding them way more than I should, given the severity of their actions, and every time that I counter someone (including, yes, my mother) by asking if they’d still be so adamant if the abuser I left was a lover, the answer is always some pathetic variation of “but family...” 

FJ is FULL of commentary on how disappointing it is when Josh shows up at family events. If you’ve ever made one, but still find yourself otherwise being in the “they just don’t appreciate their siblings” camp, please, think about that for a while, and see if you can understand that Josh’s situation is (sadly) not  terribly unique, that there are many, many non-fundie families with horrible dynamics that really do make severing ties the best choice one can make. Try and find some compassion for those who, like me, may wish they had people to celebrate holidays with, but have to go it alone because the trade off is constant abuse and anguish. It’s not an easy choice to make, and it’s one you’re never really allowed to stop defending. 

Blood may be thicker than water, but only one is usually safe to drink. 

Yep. Water is absolutely safer and healthier than blood sometimes. I mentioned that my MIL doesn’t speak with her siblings or parents anymore, but didn’t explain the reasons why:

- Her brother has done some illegal (non-violent financial) stuff in the past and was repeatedly bailed out by the family. This has been a running theme since he was born since he’s the youngest and the only son. He gets away with everything and everyone else is expected to just suck it up. 

- Her SIL purposely did stuff to hurt my MIL’s relationship with her family. Things like purposely telling MIL the wrong time for a party so they’d show up late and have everyone pissed because they had to wait to eat. She got caught doing this once years ago, immediately got all pissy, and MIL was eventually expected to just get over it. 

- Her parents, specifically her mother, couldn’t honor my in-law’s simple request to not be told anything about her brother and SIL. My MIL ended up in the hospital with heart problems and needed a pace maker, so cutting down on stress was pretty important for her health... they still didn’t listen. 

- Her mom also has a looooooing history of gaslighting people and my MIL took to keeping notes and letters to later prove her case. Her mom would roll her eyes and say something rude about how MIL would do something like that and how could she expect her to remember everything, etc. 

- MIL’s sister lives with their parents and pretty much sides with them on everything because it’s easier. I have some limited sympathy for her because I think it would be a tough situation, but she still enables her brother way more than is necessary. 

There was more going on too, but suffice to say it was a decision my MIL (and FIL) made after literally a lifetime of pain and hurt. We haven’t spoken to them since around the time of my wedding* over three years ago. It was the healthy and right decision to make for all of us, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t easy. They missed the weddings of two of their grandsons/nephews, missed meeting their other grandson’s pretty incredible girlfriend, missed holidays and birthdays, and (worst of all) they will never know my daughter - their first (and I believe only) great-grandchild/great-niece. 

*Husband and I chose to invite his grandparents, Aunt, and his Aunt’s longtime boyfriend. We purposely didn’t invite the uncle or his family. His Aunt merely declined, but his grandparents sent a note back with the decline that basically blamed my in-laws for the rift. We haven’t contacted them since, though his grandmother attempted to worm her way back in via Facebook. The first time my husband (and his brothers) ignored her, but the second time husband blocked her completely because she shared a photo of my husband holding my sister’s newborn son (who is older than our daughter) and claimed she was so thrilled he was a dad now - and yes, we’re pretty sure she didn’t realize the baby wasn’t our daughter. This is also a huge reason why I’m so anxious about photos of our daughter on Facebook. I don’t want my kid or my nephews being used as pawns.

(This is much longer than I anticipated. I have a lot of feelings about this situation. Sorry! Lol!)

[Four is Enough]

Four is our youngest, and our only daughter. She's been asking me for a little sister since she came into our house... not happening.... I"m 64...

 

Mr. Four and I are both middle children. He's of five, I'm of three. I was born a day and a half before he was. We both grew up in very similar circumstances, in cities, in row houses, fathers worked as civil servants, SAHMs, Catholic schools, went to college to study medical things.... we have very much in common, but I still don't consider us "soul mates" or anything like that. 

TL;DR, being one of several made it easier for him to decide, when we started talking about adoption, to agree not to pursue just one child, but to plan to try for a second, so our kids would have siblings.. I feared an "only" would be lonely and wanted at least two. We wound up with the Four and couldn't have had a zanier life. None of them has even said they wished to be a singleton, so I hope they're happy with our choice.

[RidiculousFundies]

My husband is 9 yrs older than me, so he feels he got a late start on kids. But I was 21 when we had #1, 23 for #2 and 28 for #3. I'm 29 now and we want one more, which could be overwhelming but I love it. I like the idea of a few siblings, even though I only have 1 sister. Mr RF has a sister and 5 half siblings. 

The lady who birthed me only refers to my kids as her grandchildren. She places more value on them, which is fine but it sounds very Meechelle-like.

[VelociRapture]

Josie is nine years old today. It’s crazy to think of how far she’s come since she was first born. Here’s hoping she has a very happy birthday!

(Under a spoiler because the first photo is a bit graphic due to all the wires and how small Josie was at the time. I don’t want to accidentally upset anyone.)

Spoiler

 

That second picture kind of bothers me a bit to be honest. I’m a preemie mom and we had a strict two visitor at a time policy for our NICU, which was to ensure the health and safety of the babies as well as to try and make it a slightly more calm environment for the parents and hospital staff. So either both parents could be there or one parent could bring in one visitor at a time. And no one under the age of 2 was allowed in either due to concerns about germs. Maybe the rules were different at their NICU (or just different for them or maybe they didn’t even bother considering the rules), but I would have been really pissed if I had gone to visit my daughter only to find that many people visiting another baby at once. 

(Our NICU didn’t have private or semi-private rooms at the time either. Everything was out in the open, though they’ve thankfully completed a renovation to ensure more privacy since then. So maybe their NICU offered more privacy and that’s why they had more visitors at one time or something.)

[justodd]

Am I the only one who seriously rolled their eyes at the birthday post being completely absent of any current pictures? To me, it just reinforces that Josie will forever be THE MIRACLE BABY, as opposed to an actual, growing person who will someday be an adult. 

[Chewing Gum]

Well it's nice of them to mention the doctors instead of just God. 

[singsingsing]

I still remember hearing about Josie's birth. It was on a baby names community on livejournal (could you get anymore 2009 than that? lol). People were just kind of casually discussing the birth and the name, but I was a fan of the Duggars back then so I followed them to some extent and I knew she wasn't due till March. I never thought a baby born that young could survive.

My feelings about the Duggars have changed immensely since then, but one thing that hasn't changed is how glad I am that Josie not only survived, she seems to be healthy and doing well. Hard to believe that little girl is nine years old already. I feel like my grandma right now, because all I can think is, "Where does the time go?!"

[SassyPants]

In 9 years most of the Duggars have really aged!

[just_ordinary]

21 hours ago, anjulibai said:

That's true, but at least it's a potential option. When you are an only child, there is no other option. It would be nice to have someone at least to feel resentful of for not helping. I'm not sure that makes sense, but it's how I feel. 

Kind of like how my DH doesn't have a good relationship with his sister. He at least had/has the opportunity. I never will. 

Having the option might be a nice concept but honestly- many people indeed have bad relationships with their siblings. It’s is just kind of a taboo to admit it. My complicated relationship to one of my siblings has brought me many tears, sorrows, worries, sleepless nights and heartbreak. There is lots of love, sure - but I right now I wish my sibling would just move far away and only send a Christmas card. And that makes me feel even worse and guilty. And sadly I don’t see that changing.

Lots of family ties break when it gets to caring for their parents, medical decisions and inheritance. Some siblings are just not that interested in one another. Some outright hate each other. I think when playing “what if” we dream of the perfect outcome but avoid the reality. Because if you have a sibling you don’t have an option either. They are there and won’t go away. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

15 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Having the option might be a nice concept but honestly- many people indeed have bad relationships with their siblings. It’s is just kind of a taboo to admit it. My complicated relationship to one of my siblings has brought me many tears, sorrows, worries, sleepless nights and heartbreak. There is lots of love, sure - but I right now I wish my sibling would just move far away and only send a Christmas card. And that makes me feel even worse and guilty. And sadly I don’t see that changing.

Lots of family ties break when it gets to caring for their parents, medical decisions and inheritance. Some siblings are just not that interested in one another. Some outright hate each other. I think when playing “what if” we dream of the perfect outcome but avoid the reality. Because if you have a sibling you don’t have an option either. They are there and won’t go away. 

I have 2 younger siblings, my sister and I get along very well we tolerate our brother, her more so than me, they are 15 months apart in age and I am 3 & 4 years older than them but was 4 & 5 years ahead of them in school, so I was kind of like an only child most of my childhood, as I was so far removed from them.  Our parents are toxic control freaks, and my brother turned into an asshole as a coping mechanism. He's fine in small doses but he and his wife drive all of us crazy. The one thing the 3 of us do agree on is we aren't taking care of either parent, dad's wife can take care of him and our mother can hire someone or go in a home, she's a nasty bitch she only cares about her clean house and what others might think of her so she can let her clean house and shiny rich woman image take care of her She's almost 73 and is perfect health, the old bat is going to out live all of us, she's most likely going to live to be well over 100, I'm just counting the months/years until we can move away from. As for inheritance, dads wife and step kids will get all of that, we know it and are pissed about it, but what ever. IF on the off chance our mother dies before she's spent all her money my brother is in charge of her estate, and is a greedy money grubbing asshole so I'm not going to get into it with him, I won't fight over money it isn't worth it too me, I know that is all he cares about so if he wants it that bad he & my sister can fight over it, because I know SHE will want it too.  I'll be just write me check of what ever is left I don't care, that money didn't do her any favors so I don't see what good it will do me.

[Pretzel]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Josie is nine years old today. It’s crazy to think of how far she’s come since she was first born. Here’s hoping she has a very happy birthday!

(Under a spoiler because the first photo is a bit graphic due to all the wires and how small Josie was at the time. I don’t want to accidentally upset anyone.)

  Hide contents

 

That second picture kind of bothers me a bit to be honest. I’m a preemie mom and we had a strict two visitor at a time policy for our NICU, which was to ensure the health and safety of the babies as well as to try and make it a slightly more calm environment for the parents and hospital staff. So either both parents could be there or one parent could bring in one visitor at a time. And no one under the age of 2 was allowed in either due to concerns about germs. Maybe the rules were different at their NICU (or just different for them or maybe they didn’t even bother considering the rules), but I would have been really pissed if I had gone to visit my daughter only to find that many people visiting another baby at once. 

(Our NICU didn’t have private or semi-private rooms at the time either. Everything was out in the open, though they’ve thankfully completed a renovation to ensure more privacy since then. So maybe their NICU offered more privacy and that’s why they had more visitors at one time or something.)

To the bolded: I assume they were at this hospital and NICU at the time: 

https://www.archildrens.org/a-to-z-services-list/intensive-care/neonatal-intensive-care-unit-(nicu)/about-the-nicu

and they state that 

Quote

Located on the third floor of the South Wing, just off the pink elevators, the 104-bed NICU includes 22 private rooms that allow parents to room-in when the infant’s health allows. 

 

[AtlanticTug]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

That second picture kind of bothers me a bit to be honest. I’m a preemie mom and we had a strict two visitor at a time policy for our NICU, which was to ensure the health and safety of the babies as well as to try and make it a slightly more calm environment for the parents and hospital staff. So either both parents could be there or one parent could bring in one visitor at a time. And no one under the age of 2 was allowed in either due to concerns about germs. Maybe the rules were different at their NICU (or just different for them or maybe they didn’t even bother considering the rules), but I would have been really pissed if I had gone to visit my daughter only to find that many people visiting another baby at once. 

(Our NICU didn’t have private or semi-private rooms at the time either. Everything was out in the open, though they’ve thankfully completed a renovation to ensure more privacy since then. So maybe their NICU offered more privacy and that’s why they had more visitors at one time or something.)

In our NICU, all the micro preemies and preemies with serious health issues were in private rooms. I wasn't there long enough to pay attention to how many people they had coming and going but the rooms were pretty big. My daughter just had some issues with blood sugar (because I am diabetic and on insulin) and was a preemie who had trouble regulating her temp in the first day or so. We were in the big room with only the privacy curtains separating us, but all the babies around us were just feeders and growers pretty much.

[VelociRapture]

@Pretzel @AtlanticTug Thank you both! I was hoping that Josie was in a private room - not just for health/safety reasons for all the babies involved, but because it would have been really nice for her family to have some privacy given how long she was there for. 

Our NICU had no private rooms at all. There were three “wards” in one very long room and each ward was sepearated by a half glass wall. We didn’t even have curtains to draw around for privacy - we had to use removable partitions if they were available. My 34 weeker ended up right next to a very young preemie the first two days she was there. They started renovations right after my daughter was discharged and it’s (thankfully) much nicer now. So my experience definitely appears to have colored my previous post and I’m glad that my initial impression doesn’t seem to have been the reality of the situation. 

[Pretzel]

34 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

@Pretzel @AtlanticTug Thank you both! I was hoping that Josie was in a private room - not just for health/safety reasons for all the babies involved, but because it would have been really nice for her family to have some privacy given how long she was there for. 

Our NICU had no private rooms at all. There were three “wards” in one very long room and each ward was sepearated by a half glass wall. We didn’t even have curtains to draw around for privacy - we had to use removable partitions if they were available. My 34 weeker ended up right next to a very young preemie the first two days she was there. They started renovations right after my daughter was discharged and it’s (thankfully) much nicer now. So my experience definitely appears to have colored my previous post and I’m glad that my initial impression doesn’t seem to have been the reality of the situation. 

Also, I would assume that a family with a preemie as tiny as Josie was, would get a private room as that could be the only time for parents, siblings, grandparents to see their little one alive as sad as it is. 

[Ali]

The hospital did not allow my daughter to visit my son when he had overnight hospital stays. He was one and she was six. It was hard on her to not be able to visit her brother.

The amount of visitors Josie has bothers me too. Josie was very fragile and Mackynzie? was very young. I feel like a hospital should limit the amount of visitors call in the room at a time and require them to be of a certain age. 

[Carm_88]

I am not an only child, but I felt like I was for many years. *It was only 5.* All of my cousins had siblings, the ones closest in age to me were the youngest in families of 2-3. When my sibling came around, my parents focused on him. Which was fine, I had the attention for 5 years...it never really swung back to me. My brother and I are close, but he's very spoiled and hasn't had much responsibilities in his lifetime. All tech issues, help with online shopping, teaching of the new technology, and eventually the harder things, will fall to me. He states that he can't do it and it's not a can't, it's a won't. It concerns me, but I can't make him grow up, and I feel like my parents have to live with the monster that they created. I love him we are close, but it doesn't stop me from seeing the big picture.

My parents both come from big families and my Dad's family is pretty supportive and loving, I grew up surrounded by them and I never doubted that each and every person loved me. It still continues and I have amazing memories with all my cousins. My Mom's family is different, they are all very competitive. Likely due to being one of 14 and having to scream and play everything up to get attention from their parents. My uncles are more easy going and easy to love. The aunts are cutthroat, you think they are saying something nice to your face and behind your back they're saying that you're after getting some fat. Some people are best kept at a distance.

[tankgirl]

It is so strange a friend gave birth to her 28 week baby 9 years ago ( well next week actually) and she hasnt brought out too many of the tiny pictures in ages, but they also had way stricter rules, the young kids were not allowed in. My friends child was actually a few ounces smaller then Josie, but has done well considering her birth as well. I am proud of my friend for not focusing on her birth.

 

On the other hand, I have a second friend who had a 27 week premie and despite nearly finishing school, her Mom is hyper focused on her premie status. My friend is pro choice, not religious, but something in her focuses on that as the huge marker for her child. Her child hates it and I get it, how horrible is it for your greatest accomplishment in your parents eyes being your birth? Josie might grow to hate it too.

 

Its just weird for me that my friends baby is basically the same age as Josie.

[Purrl]

On 11/23/2018 at 6:32 PM, Four is Enough said:

See, I'm thinking Joy is going to be early in the new year....

Boy, I hope not. I wish she would take some time to enjoy the baby she has.

[libgirl2]

On 12/9/2018 at 1:47 PM, Coconut Flan said:

I was and am an only child.  In caring for my aged parents I have taken comfort that I don't have to consider anyone else's opinions and don't have to engage in the arguments and brangling that many of friends have endured or are enduring.  I've known this was coming my entire life so tried to prepare myself for it.  I could have done without the Dawg though.  My parents insisted on buying him and even resented that I had an opinion about the purchase.  And now he lives with me and costs me about $300 to $400 a month.  This month is an exception coming in at over $1000.  No, I don't resent that one bit.   He is company and it isn't all bad.  He's a people pleaser and intelligent if he is also determined to get his own way rather frequently.

I am an only child. In taking care of my ill and aging parents, I often wished I had a sibling or two, especially as I am in the process of clearing out their home to sell. My husband and son are a big help, but we could use a few extra arms. Also many of the financial decisions that I have had to be the only one to take care of and wrestle with. I think I have a good example with my cousin's who have pulled together through the deaths of my aunt and uncle as well as the illness of one of themselves. 

Then I look at my husband, who's siblings are a wreck. They no longer speak, his sister is crazy, his brother always wants to be the center of attention,  his SIL considers herself the star as from her fruitful womb came the two grand sons ( she also hates DH's sister and starts fights) and add to that the fact that they think my husband is nuts (which he is not) ...... he always tells me not to envy what I don't have because you never know.