Zach & Whitney Bates Part 6: That Thing In The Window Is Creepy

[Dandruff]

I wonder how they'll fix Kaci's hair.  I imagine they'd prefer to keep it long but can they?

[WiseGirl]

So I admit to reading this article, https://people.com/tv/bringing-up-bates-whitney-bates-opens-up-miscarriage/amp/

And this caught my eye "Now, both women are focusing on their littles ones’ latest milestones (Carson can dress himself now!), helping Carlin Bates plan her wedding and planning to open a dress shop together." (bolding mine). This is in reference to Whitney and Erin.  

Discuss (and better sleuths let me know what you find about this.) Will this be like cousin Amy Duggar's shop or modest only wear? Inquiring minds want to know.

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, WiseGirl said:

So I admit to reading this article, https://people.com/tv/bringing-up-bates-whitney-bates-opens-up-miscarriage/amp/

And this caught my eye "Now, both women are focusing on their littles ones’ latest milestones (Carson can dress himself now!), helping Carlin Bates plan her wedding and planning to open a dress shop together." (bolding mine). This is in reference to Whitney and Erin.  

Discuss (and better sleuths let me know what you find about this.) Will this be like cousin Amy Duggar's shop or modest only wear? Inquiring minds want to know.

That's interesting. Erin and Whitney have rather different styles. And I don't know why Erin would give up piano-teaching for a dress shop. If she were going to open any sort of shop, I thought it would be to sell  furniture refinished by Chad (although I guess it still could)

[JillyO]

Interesting. In the People article, Whitney also mentions that she and Zach have been trying to conceive again since October. I also wonder what that means for seemingly quiverfull people. Her miscarriage was in June/July. So does that mean they prevented in the mean time? Or that they started actively trying again in October (i.e. charting, temping, OPKs, whatever) and before, they just weren't preventing?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

Interesting. In the People article, Whitney also mentions that she and Zach have been trying to conceive again since October. I also wonder what that means for seemingly quiverfull people. Her miscarriage was in June/July. So does that mean they prevented in the mean time? Or that they started actively trying again in October (i.e. charting, temping, OPKs, whatever) and before, they just weren't preventing?

Don’t they have some kind of time of abstinence after the birth of a child?  I know the Duggars talked about it...not sure if that was a Gothard thing or not.  

If so does it apply to miscarriages?

 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Don’t they have some kind of time of abstinence after the birth of a child?  I know the Duggars talked about it...not sure if that was a Gothard thing or not.  

If so does it apply to miscarriages?

Yes he does. I can't remember all the details. I think he also talked about a time of abstinence to help conceive a child. He had all sorts of weird rules about sex, especially in regard to pregnancy. 

[Melissa1977]

6 hours ago, JillyO said:

Interesting. In the People article, Whitney also mentions that she and Zach have been trying to conceive again since October. I also wonder what that means for seemingly quiverfull people. Her miscarriage was in June/July. So does that mean they prevented in the mean time? Or that they started actively trying again in October (i.e. charting, temping, OPKs, whatever) and before, they just weren't preventing?

Considering that Whit gets proper medical care in her pregnancies, it's possible that doctors recommended her to wait for a few months before trying for a new baby. Maybe her miscarriage was complicated.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zach and Whit prevent pregnancies for medical reasons (or even for practical reasons, but it's speculation). They seem down-to-earth, specially him. And not all fundies are quiverful.

They may not be extremely fertile or they used BC for a while after Kaci's birth (wasn't she almost 2 years old when Whitney got pregnant?) . Anyway, if they get a #3, there'll be a refreshing age gap between Kaci and him/her. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by Melissa1977
Clarifying

[Granwych]

On 2/7/2019 at 4:05 AM, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

Blunt-tipped preschool scissors will cut hair just fine. My three-year-old is amazingly good at using them. I actually showed them this video and got a “I would never do that. Scissors are for paper” response that made me chuckle. 

I can understand her recording it. I video so many little things nowadays since it’s so easy with iPhones and I wish I had those videos of my older children. She may have recorde it to send to Zach too. Anyway, I don’t think they seem overly terrified of their mother and she sounds calmly disappointed. No biggie. 

I never let wychling use scissors too much when she was little; she had pale blonde hair down past her waist.   I was severely annoyed, however, when Grampwych attempted to trim her bangs.  Looked like something chewed 'em up.

[JesSky03]

On 2/7/2019 at 11:20 PM, Hisey said:

The kids both look so miserable that I wonder how Whitney reacted when there was no video camera going. Little Kaci looks almost like she's been crying. Plus, I notice Whitney says that Bradley "decided to sneak." All in all, not a good day at the Bates house.

Little Kaci was required to sit still while a grownup (Josie) cut her hair. This happened on one of the shows. No wonder she wanted to try her hand at haircutting. Two year olds always want to copy what grownups do (though things like driving a car might not be practical lol). If it were me, I'd give her a doll to practice on. She'd feel empowered to be the haircutter, instead of the client, for a change.

Toddlers are known for big emotions...you should have seen my almost 1 year old the other day when I wouldn't let him play with my hot coffee, you'd think I was just meanest mom in the world. 

[Hisey]

34 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

Toddlers are known for big emotions...you should have seen my almost 1 year old the other day when I wouldn't let him play with my hot coffee, you'd think I was just meanest mom in the world. 

I know about toddlers and their big emotions, trust me.

The kids look sad, defensive and guilty, and I'm commenting on that. There's no reason for that unless their mother was mad. They were not being denied anything (except scissors, I suspect).

Whitney sound calm on the video, but I wonder if she freaked out a bit when she first found out. Also the language she used ("Bradley decided to be sneaky". . . ) and the kids' defensiveness ("It was Bwadley, not me!") makes me think it was just not an amusing incident to Whitney, but a rather big deal.

When my own toddler cut her hair, I just laughed and took the scissors away. This may be why she did it more than once. . . 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Hisey

[JesSky03]

39 minutes ago, Hisey said:

I know about toddlers and their big emotions, trust me.

The kids look sad, defensive and guilty, and I'm commenting on that. There's no reason for that unless their mother was mad. They were not being denied anything (except scissors, I suspect).

Whitney sound calm on the video, but I wonder if she freaked out a bit when she first found out. Also the language she used ("Bradley decided to be sneaky". . . ) and the kids' defensiveness ("It was Bwadley, not me!") makes me think it was just not an amusing incident to Whitney, but a rather big deal.

When my own toddler cut her hair, I just laughed and took the scissors away. This may be why she did it more than once. . . 

I suppose that could be the case but I'm not sure where you are going with it? I wouldn't blame Whitney for being upset or sounding mad but I'm not getting that at all from the video or what she wrote. The kids just got caught doing something they probably knew they shouldn't have been doing so of course they are looking sad and guilty. 

[singsingsing]

The idea that a kid wouldn't feel guilty, sad or defensive unless an adult was mad at them is, uh... interesting. I once put myself in time-out in kindergarten because I thought I did something wrong.

[front hugs > duggs]

@singsingsing laughing because I picture baby Nancy Pelosi putting herself in a timeout after being a bully outsmarting current baby Donald Trump in kindergarten and clapping at him.

[Hisey]

13 hours ago, singsingsing said:

The idea that a kid wouldn't feel guilty, sad or defensive unless an adult was mad at them is, uh... interesting. I once put myself in time-out in kindergarten because I thought I did something wrong.

That seems a bit unusual. I work in an elementary school and I've never seen a child do that.

OK, then. Bradley and Kaci, at 4 and 2, have internalized enough social and moral rules to realize that cutting their own hair is wrong. After the fun of cutting hair, they stopped and reflected on what they had done. They had no help from grownups, they just figured it out on their own. They realized this at the exact same time, just when their mother was taking the video. She didn't say a word to them. Sure.

At two years old, still in diapers, Kaci put down her scissors and realized that Bradley will look different than other little boys because of her haircutting, and that this will cause embarrassment to the family. She realized that Whitney wants her children to look physically attractive and that cutting Bradley's hair makes him less so. Kaci regrets this, and her behavior demonstrates her internalized shame.

Yes, seems real likely!

14 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

I wouldn't blame Whitney for being upset or sounding mad

See, I would. Whitney would be better off saving "upset" and "mad" for something important. 

Whitney knows this, too. That's why she acts amused and makes jokes (Hashtag  It'llgrowback). But the kids' eyes and tone of voice give her away. She was mad. She cared a lot. She called her four year old "sneaky." She really didn't behave in an admirable way. She is a bit too into how her little kids look. 

On 2/7/2019 at 11:11 PM, Dandruff said:

I wonder how they'll fix Kaci's hair.  I imagine they'd prefer to keep it long but can they?

Long hair on a two-year old is such a waste of their mother's time. Food gets stuck in it. Paint gets stuck in it. Big brothers cut it, and it then it looks silly and uneven. Parents try to comb it and the child runs away screaming, so it always looks messy and tangled. Washing it can be a nightmare.

Two year olds are beautiful no matter how they wear their hair. It makes everyone's life easier if you keep it short till they're five or six.

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, Hisey said:

See, I would. Whitney would be better off saving "upset" and "mad" for something important.

So speaking out against adults who are actually causing harm is bad in your mind but being critical of Whitney because you have decided she MUST have reacted too harshly to this is cool? I guess you are just going to pretend that @nausicaa's post didn't happen and continue picking on the Bates for superficial things while telling others they are wrong to discuss the harm done by the Bates beliefs?

Are you just trolling now? 

 

[singsingsing]

I’m putting @Hisey on ignore. I think at this point she’s very obviously a troll and I’m sick of her disrupting the forum with her inanity.

[ladyaudley]

I’d certainly be mad if my kids cut each other’s hair! Not for long, but certainly as a first reaction. 

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, ladyaudley said:

I’d certainly be mad if my kids cut each other’s hair! Not for long, but certainly as a first reaction. 

I did get mad when my daughter cut her bangs at 4 years old. I'm not fundie and my daughter isn't scared of me. 

[JillyO]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being upset at what Kaci and Bradley did. Not so much because of what they look like now (although I understand that seeing that can be a bit of a shock at first), but because I'm sure they were taught that scissors are not toys. Frankly, I think just laughing it off as @Hisey suggested is the more harmful reaction. Children should recognize when they did something wrong.

[just_ordinary]

1 minute ago, JillyO said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being upset at what Kaci and Bradley did. Not so much because of what they look like now (although I understand that seeing that can be a bit of a shock at first), but because I'm sure they were taught that scissors are not toys. Frankly, I think just laughing it off as @Hisey suggested is the more harmful reaction. Children should recognize when they did something wrong.

While I overall agree, I think it’s justified to ask how Whitney might have reacted off camera. I admit that she is one of my pet Fundies and I believe to see some little changes she and Zach make in their parenting compared to his parents. But they still strike me to be Fundie enough to use corporal punishment and having strange ideas about obedience (and how not to obey parents is the same as insulting and not to obey Jesus/God). Maybe Whitney lost it/got mad at first and than (after a stern talking) was able to laugh about it, maybe not. We don’t know. She definitely loves to show her family as beautiful and perfect on Instsgram. Those hairs will slightly destroy the picture (not in my eyes but I think in hers). She made it a fun thing for her followers but I wouldn’t bet money on her not giving her children a spank and a horrible talk about how they made Jesus cry with their actions.

And yes, scissors are not toys but all children in kindergarten (3-6) use scissors here and often have them at home too. Obviously scissors for children but they are absolutely good to cut human hair, Barbie hair, bedsheets and socks. Ask my mum. In my experience there is nothing unusual about little children using children scissors. Younger siblings often earlier than the first as they mirror them.

[justmy2cents]

If Whitney was so upset I doubt she would make an Instagram post about it right after it happened. She probably handled it better than I did.

[Carm_88]

Typical Valentines Day post. Haha 

[rebeccawriter01]

Children that age don't have long memories when it comes to misbehavior and punishment. Whitney talking to them immediately after it happened was a good parenting choice to make. With children that age, time out or extended punishments don't work because by the end of the time out, the child rarely can articulate why he or she was placed in it to begin with at all. 

Kaci was hardly traumatized over the incident. It was actually good for her to show remorse in comparison to the way Jeb and Judson reacted about almost burning down the house. There was a mix of guilt and regret in there that wasn't over the top. Part of it might have been a reaction from Whitney regarding how she was going to look funny with her hair lopsided like that or how long it would take to grow. I know I have said such things when my girls cut each others hair before a big event (a friend's wedding). So I can picture Whitney saying to them, "What did you do? Your hair is all crazy and everyone is going to stare at you. We've got to be _____________________ in 15 minutes and I have to take you looking like this. Why did you do this?"

Given her age, I wouldn't expect her to launch into a full explanation of who got the scissors, who chose to cut her hair versus something else, and what they were trying to accomplish. Her silence was probably more about not knowing how to express herself versus fear.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'd lose my shit if my kids were playing with scissors and cutting hair, NGL. I wouldn't be spanking anyone, but a "wtf" or two would surely leave my mouth. 

[Letizia]

When I cut my bangs off with safety scissors I framed my dad. I was in my 20s when I finally told the truth that it was in fact me and not him. The guilt of her bringing it up at least twice a year finally got to me. To this day I don’t know why my mom believed me? My dad was a fanatic about his own hair so why did she think he would inexplicably cut off a 3 yr olds bangs?!? And when i say I cut them off I mean as close to the skin as I could get.