Bontragers and Bowers 3: Kittens Having None of Their Shit

[Black Aliss]

3 hours ago, HereticHick said:

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At the beginning, leading Cassidy was uncomfortable, but thankfully, she gladly followed as I learned to direct conversations, decide what we did together, and lead in God’s Word and in prayer. These things prepared me to serve and lead after marriage.

If any suitor tried to "direct a conversation" with me, I would have directed his ass to the door.

Word. Talk about a controlling asshole!

[Smash!]

I commented on his smuggish latest post lets see if he replies.

[SPHASH]

I hope Joshy gets busted in an airport bathroom soliciting an undercover cop ala Larry Craig.

[ViolaSebastian]

Boy oh boy, they did Bible study, fasting, limited physical touch, hauled grain, and talked about their families and the Bible.

Truly the stuff dreams are made of. 

[Lurky]

Oh wow...
 

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Time reveals truth. There’s no substitute for it. The more time I spent with Cassidy, the more God confirmed that she really was the one He wanted me to marry.

In the summer of 2017, Cassidy flew up to Alaska to spend 8 days with us. Over that time, we talked together 5-8 hours every day.

 

So let's be generous - he thinks spending 64 hours with someone is a lot of time to spend with someone, in the context of deciding whether to marry them or not*
 

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How do you find out who someone really is? Watch them live real life. Specifically, observe them at work and with their family. Far more important than going out on dates is doing things that reveal true character.

Real activities allowed Cassidy and I to observe one another as we truly were. Being unchaperoned helped us take more responsibility and enjoy deeper conversations. We’re thankful our parents trusted and blessed us in that way.

 

For *eight days*!!!!!  But also, I would bet cash money that he wouldn't count (eg) being in the same university classes as someone as "real activities".  I wonder where his line is?  Going for coffee with someone definitely feels "real" to me, but I'm just a Godless heathen...

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At the beginning, leading Cassidy was uncomfortable, but thankfully, she gladly followed as I learned to direct conversations, decide what we did together, and lead in God’s Word and in prayer. These things prepared me to serve and lead after marriage.

I am always grateful to FJ, because one of my favourite genres is awkward/unenthusiastic courtship stories.  Well, or it was, until Bret Alan Smith was revealed as a despicable paedophile, because it made Katie Morton's "He asked me to marry him, and I didn't know what to do, so asked my father to decide for me" sound even worse, and I didn't think that was possible.  But still, the Staddon tales of years of angst and woe before they'd even talked to each other (so they say) is an incredible example, and this is too.  Proof that fundamentalism hurts men too, but it's so sad that his take away was "it prepared me to lead" not "I'm uncomfortable because this system is NOT RIGHT - my wife should be my equal".

(ETA * I know, there are FJers who knew they were meant to be togetherafter 24 hours, and it worked out, and to be fair, I asked my now-wife to marry me after 24 hours "together" - but 1. we'd known each other as friends, and 2. when FJers do it, it's in the context of having worldly experience, talking about more than family-approved topics, having support systems that won't disown them if marriages go wrong, have resources to enable them to walk away, if they'd turned out to have made a mistake, etc etc etc, and Courtship Fundies are NOT in don't have these benefits)

Edited February 28, 2019 by Lurky

[Lgirlrocks]

My parents went to the same church for three or four years. They weren’t really friends but it was a small church and everyone kind of knew everyone. My mom and dad started hanging out and he proposed to her three weeks later. They never afficially dated and would be married 35 years this year if my dad hadn’t passed away. 

Im glad he got to spend some alone time with her but to me their relationship seems forced and fake. I don’t get why they couldn’t have been friends first. Why does he have to lead her? And why did they fast. Fasting is stupid. 

[HereticHick]

Spending 8 days in a bus in Alaska with the groom-to-be's entire family at your elbow is also not indicative of all aspects of life. Its not the same as just the two of you at home, doing a project together, hanging out together, and only accountable to each other. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by HereticHick

[Pecansforeveryone]

Yes, the lack of "alone time" in these fundie courtship drives me bonkers. By alone time, a simple coffee date or hike definitely counts but it has to just be the two of you. 

[ViolaSebastian]

[Smash!]

"At the beginning, leading Cassidy was uncomfortable, but thankfully, she gladly followed as I learned to direct conversations, decide what we did together, and lead in God’s Word and in prayer. These things prepared me to serve and lead after marriage."

I asked him about this in the context that marriage means being a team. This was his answer:

[usedbicycle]

He seems so giddy that she "gladly follows" whatever he says. 

I can't respect men who like to have a doormat wife. That is not manliness to me. It takes a strong man to partner with a strong woman. 

(Just to clarify, I'm acknowledging that Cassidy was programmed to act this way and it is not an indication of her character or intelligence. Josh could choose to praise her wisdom, humor, or anything else, but he chooses to praise her obedience instead. It says more about him than about her.)

[Lurky]

@ViolaSebastian Love your bingo card, but you're missing the square where she tried to stop it all, citing the Lord calling her in a different direction or something, but became resigned to the fact this was the only choice her parents would give her, so unenthusiastically submitted.  Also, 6 months of angst as they waited for a parent to agree they could even talk to each other.... or maybe I've read too much Staddon....

[Smash!]

He seems so giddy that she "gladly follows" whatever he says. 
I can't respect men who like to have a doormat wife. That is not manliness to me. It takes a strong man to partner with a strong woman. 
(Just to clarify, I'm acknowledging that Cassidy was programmed to act this way and it is not an indication of her character or intelligence. Josh could choose to praise her wisdom, humor, or anything else, but he chooses to praise her obedience instead. It says more about him than about her.)

And remember, when he fell for the scam guy (there‘s a blog post about it) it was her who pointed that out and warned him. So he could have chosen to praise her cleverness.

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 hours ago, Lurky said:

@ViolaSebastian Love your bingo card, but you're missing the square where she tried to stop it all, citing the Lord calling her in a different direction or something, but became resigned to the fact this was the only choice her parents would give her, so unenthusiastically submitted.  Also, 6 months of angst as they waited for a parent to agree they could even talk to each other.... or maybe I've read too much Staddon....

Oh no no no. The Boners parents PUSHED these two together. Along with Lina and Carson. There was so much pressure put on these two couples that I doubt they had much of a choice.

[HereticHick]

"at the end of the day, I had to initiate"

So, for the rest of her life, Cassidy has to perfect the art of lowkey hinting, perhaps passive-aggressively, her suggestions.  Working on telepathic skills would be encouraged

 

[usedbicycle]

11 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

"at the end of the day, I had to initiate"

I feel so bad for these women's sex lives. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

The more I learn about this courtship model, the more it seems tailored to turn considerate, thoughtful, unselfish, and/or shy guys into entitled, bossy assholes. Yikes.

[AverageGiraffe]

6 hours ago, HereticHick said:

"at the end of the day, I had to initiate"

So, for the rest of her life, Cassidy has to perfect the art of lowkey hinting, perhaps passive-aggressively, her suggestions.  Working on telepathic skills would be encouraged

 

She can get some tips from Teri Maxwell on how to get your husband to order pizza without disrespecting him by actually asking him to order pizza. 

[HereticHick]

1 hour ago, AverageGiraffe said:

She can get some tips from Teri Maxwell on how to get your husband to order pizza without disrespecting him by actually asking him to order pizza. 

Here's some ideas:

1. Just "happen" to have  sausage/basic/garlic essential oil blend in the kitchen  diffuser.

2.  Ask random questions like "Josh, do you think they had pepperoni back in the time of Jesus?"

3.  Mutter words like "provolone cheese" and "stuffed crust" under your breath when you pretend to be praying.

4. Call your husband Josh "Papa John" by mistake.

5. Let the babies play with dominos. 

6. Burn dinner.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

You guys MUST read Allison’s latest post. I swear she is so transparent. I wonder if she realizes how transparent she is when she writes this stuff. 

https://www.fromallison.com/

[SusanAtTheLastBattle]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You guys MUST read Allison’s latest post. I swear she is so transparent. I wonder if she realizes how transparent she is when she writes this stuff. 

https://www.fromallison.com/

Seriously...

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If your husband and his sisters were close, you have just taken their place as closest female friend (obviously, a closer and altogether different relationship, but still, their relationship with him is forever changed). Don’t be selfish. Share your husband by suggesting to spend time with his family.

How could anyone read this and think that the "siblings are your best friends!!!!" way of raising kids is healthy? Painful levels of enmeshment.

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Your new sisters- if they’re single- won’t feel loved by constant superior comments about how wonderful marriage is/how much they are missing out on. They may really want to get married but it’s just not happening currently or they may not be into getting married right now at all; regardless, it’s where they are currently, and acting like they are less than for not being married is no-bueno.

Rather than adopting the “marriage is better” mentality, choose to validate their stage of life by asking thoughtful questions, entering their world, and encouraging them in specific ministries and work they are involved in. 

She treats not being married as an open wound.

[HereticHick]

12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You guys MUST read Allison’s latest post. I swear she is so transparent. I wonder if she realizes how transparent she is when she writes this stuff. 

https://www.fromallison.com/

I'd love to know about this input: "Also, I’m grateful for the input from my sis Chelsy’s new sisters in law, Sarah, Anna, and Mary. They gave me terrific thoughts and ideas for this post, and it was really fun to chat about this topic and get their perspective."

[deborahlynn1979]

Just read Alison's latest and her creepiness is off the charts. I'd say this would turn off any potential suitors, but who are we kidding? She's destined to marry someone as loathsome and controlling as her brother Josh. 

[HereticHick]

5 minutes ago, SusanAtTheLastBattle said:

She treats not being married as an open wound.

And she should stop picking at it...: )

 

Honestly Alison, you have it sooooo much better than many fundy SAHDs. You get to actually work out of the house, at your family's hotel. You actually know how to cook and garden. You have in-laws in your age group to hang out with. Your parents allow you to drive with out a chaperone, and even go off on "girl's weekends."   You no longer have any little siblings to diaper, and few if any homeschooling duties. You get to travel all over Canada and Mexico. When you are home, you go to a large church, not the church of the living room or retirement home parlor. You get to see your extended family often. You dress stylishly, and you make (kinda crappy) necklaces that you sell on Etsy. Suck it up, buttercup.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

And she should stop picking at it...: )

 

Honestly Alison, you have it sooooo much better than many fundy SAHDs. You get to actually work out of the house, at your family's hotel. You actually know how to cook and garden. You have in-laws in your age group to hang out with. Your parents allow you to drive with out a chaperone, and even go off on "girl's weekends."   You no longer have any little siblings to diaper, and few if any homeschooling duties. You get to travel all over Canada and Mexico. When you are home, you go to a large church, not the church of the living room or retirement home parlor. You get to see your extended family often. You dress stylishly, and you make (kinda crappy) necklaces that you sell on Etsy. Suck it up, buttercup.

She’s starting to remind me of Jessica Boyer.