Finnish-Australian Vegan Doomsday Cult Family of 12

[Gobsmacked]

....and three hours later.... It's now just past midnight. So much for my early night. This family are fascinating. I haven't worked them out at all yet. 

What does Dad do? He makes nice cakes and biscuits! Where does their money come from? The kids appear happy, not cowed like the Rod kids or Anderson kids. They appear healthy, bright and well loved. Lovely house. 

The family make the Rods and Andersons look worse than they already do. 

There has to be a catch. So many questions. 

[formergothardite]

The baby on the bed with nothing to keep him from rolling off disturbed me. The children just laying there sucking bottles for a pretty long amount of time also disturbed me. The music playing during all this is probably to help cover up that the baby appears to be crying a lot during the time mom is fixing breakfast. 

 

[Anonymousguest]

8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The baby on the bed with nothing to keep him from rolling off disturbed me. The children just laying there sucking bottles for a pretty long amount of time also disturbed me. The music playing during all this is probably to help cover up that the baby appears to be crying a lot during the time mom is fixing breakfast. 

 

It worried me when she left the baby there and walked out, and when she came back the baby was practically falling of the bed. 6m it's way too old to leave unattended on a bed. 

The sleep schedule the family keeps is disturbing. The teenager goes for a 3am run? I realize it's light outside and that probably effects them all, but do they change for winter? Anyone read the sleep study she mentioned? 

[Briefly]

22 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

These people's instagram accounts are terrifying. All dressed in white, staring expressionlessy at the camera in trendy locations. They give off real weird vibes. I do get a kick out of these batshit crazy names though, Jerusalem and D'Artagnan showing off their matching white-boy dreads. 

Kind of like The Family, the group in Australia?  Anne Hamilton-Byrne was the "mother" of the group.  The children were brainwashed, most of them were not her biological children and they were all blonde (natural and dyed) and the may have been dressed alike.  Everything I've read calls her The Child Stealer.  That is kind of what I was reminded of when I first read this thread,

[DundeeUnFundie]

Vegan religious mummy-vlogger of ten, mixing finnish stereotypes (sauna, classic style with shades and denim etc) with aussie stereotypes (surfer, laidback etc). It's a very strange mix. No modesty rules though by the mention of going naked in the sauna all together.

[mango_fandango]

I was on YouTube on my iPad earlier... the morning routine video popped up on my homepage! I don’t think I’ve even visited this thread on my iPad. Technology, eh?

 

[potato]

4 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

Names. Who would name their daughter Aphrodite? Isn't she the embodiment of lust? Why don't you just call her "Sexy"? It is totally inappropriate and very skeevy. Interestingly, the spider-sense doesn't pick up on it.

I have a friend whose middle name is Aphrodite.  However, said friend is 100% Greek so it might be a family name.  (I know of people named Socrates, Hermione, and Pericles so it's definitely possible).

Anyway, this family is wacky and I can't wait to find out more about them.  I hate how Taina randomly places the video of one of the kids saying to like and subscribe instead of leaving it at the beginning or end.

Edited November 14, 2018 by potato
Grammar. Surprise, surprise.

[AliceInFundyland]

There’s that kid named Albuterol (it’s not that but asthma med/transformer was what we came up with and now that’s how she’s doomed in my head). That may be my worst solo for the moment. These are pretty randandom. Why Greek Goddess Cheerleader and Flower Child? So confusing.

[bal maiden]

Someone knows exactly what they’re doing here: the videos are filmed in summer, but only released now, so lots of preparation and forethought there. She’s not been posting on YouTube long, but is suddenly a sensation... Are they paying for subscribers? Branding and design is clearly thought out. This is no off the cuff mommy vlogger, this is strategic. And creepy, very creepy. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

15 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you, as I see these terms being confused and misused all the time. It's only a slight annoyance, but thought I would clarify.

Positive reinforcement is adding a stimulus. It can be either pleasant or unpleasant, rewarding or punishment.[it's either a reinforcement or a punishment can't be both] Both giving a treat (reward) and giving a spanking(punishment) are positive reinforcement. [If it's a punishment it's not a reinforcement]

Negative reinforcement is removing a stimulus, and can also be either reward or punishment.[it's either a reinforcement or a punishment, can't be both] Turning off the alarm clock in the morning- reward, it stops the annoying noise.  On the other hand, losing recess because the class was too noisy is punishment because it is removing a pleasant stimulus. 

Does that make sense? Think reward vs punishment instead of positive vs negative. 

What you say is partly correct, but the underlined bits are incorrect and adding to the confusion. My comments are in square brackets.

In the Operant Conditioning Theory something is either a reinforcement OR a punishment, can't be both. The difference between reinforcement and punishment is the goal. If your goal is to increase a desirable behaviour (ie staying still on the blanket) then you apply reinforcement, if you want to stop an undesirable behaviour (ie wandering away from the blanket) you apply a punishment. Both punishment and reinforcement can be negative (taking away a stimulus) or positive (adding a stimulus). In this case positive punishment could be spanking (adding an unpleasant stimulus with the aim to curb an undesirable behaviour) while a negative punishment could be taking away a toy (removing a stimulus with the aim of curbing the undesired behaviour). Positive reinforcement could be giving a toy to promote the increase of permanence on the blanket, while negative conditioning could be putting an unpleasant stimulus around the blanket (or playing a disturbing sound every time the kid leaves the blanket) in a way that to avoid the unpleasant stimulus the kid will increase the desired behaviour.

Maybe visual aids can be helpful.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

11 hours ago, Terrie said:

Also, generally, rewards, better called reinforcements, (positive or negative) are intended to increase a behavior, while punishments, or aversives, are meant to stop one. So a child burning their hand on the stove is a positive punishment. It introduces something (pain) and it encourages a reduction in the behavior (touching the stove). 

This is mostly correct in substance, but you know, semantics matter. Reinforcement isn't necessarily rewarding, in many cases it's just the cessation of an unpleasant stimulus when the desired behaviour is performed, more of a relief than a reward.

Regarding your example, it's an interesting one. It can be interpreted as a  negative reinforcement if your goal is to increase the behaviour of kid staying away from the stove. As avoidance of the stove (desired behaviour) will make the unpleasant stimulus (getting burnt) go away, that's negative reinforcement.

It can be a positive punishment if, after telling the kid to stay away from the stove and the kid doesn't, you make the kid touch the stove. You introduce an unpleasant stimulus meant to decrease the undesired behaviour of hoovering around the stove.

[Palimpsest]

11 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Anyone read the sleep study she mentioned? 

Nope.  There is no study.  She links to a youtube video.  I lasted through only a couple of minutes of pure crap.  FTR, her sleep guru is a chiropractor and, IMO, a quack.

 https://drjohnbergman.com/about/

[Glasgowghirl]

While the kids are not looking neglected and are seemingly being educated well. I still think their is something off with her. Fitting 12 years education into 9 may work well for children that are more gifted but what if some of her children struggle, will she accept them going at a slower pace than her other children or will she be mad because she can't brag about all her kids completing schooling years early. Her children must not get breaks from schooling either.

[llucie]

The oldest married son doesnt seem to live with them. In his own channel he has a video in what looks to be his apartment. It looks like a tiny apartment in a city. Its all decorated in black and white, but looks pretty normal for a young couple. My bet is that he is working (and probably his wife too) and thats why they live in a city and not in the middle of nowhere in the countryside. 

 

[JMO]

I'm wondering who filmed her at 3am. I guess one of the older kids? And did we ever see her eat? My biggest question is why believers of a doomsday cult would have 10 kids.  Don't they believe that the end is nigh? 

[AmazonGrace]

20 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

While the kids are not looking neglected and are seemingly being educated well. I still think their is something off with her. Fitting 12 years education into 9 may work well for children that are more gifted but what if some of her children struggle, will she accept them going at a slower pace than her other children or will she be mad because she can't brag about all her kids completing schooling years early. Her children must not get breaks from schooling either.

I'm a little sceptical whether you really get 12 years worth of education in 9 years of homeschooling or if it's more like some things getting covered here and there with occasional bald patches.

[JermajestyDuggar]

42 minutes ago, llucie said:

The oldest married son doesnt seem to live with them. In his own channel he has a video in what looks to be his apartment. It looks like a tiny apartment in a city. Its all decorated in black and white, but looks pretty normal for a young couple. My bet is that he is working (and probably his wife too) and thats why they live in a city and not in the middle of nowhere in the countryside. 

 

He also does not have a license because he said it’s $4000. I don’t know how true that is. But if he works, he has to live in a city. Unless he works remote. Which I doubt.

32 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I'm a little sceptical whether you really get 12 years worth of education in 9 years of homeschooling or if it's more like some things getting covered here and there with occasional bald patches.

I get some tiger mom vibes from her. Not really her personality but her expectations.

[keen23]

I smell an upcoming reality show (or someone really wanting to be on a reality show).

[Gobsmacked]

If this happens Jilly Rod will be soooooooooo cross. 

17 minutes ago, keen23 said:

I smell an upcoming reality show (or someone really wanting to be on a reality show).

 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

My biggest question is why believers of a doomsday cult would have 10 kids.  Don't they believe that the end is nigh? 

That's OK.  On Doomsday they will all be Raptured.  Changed in the twinkling of an eye and raised unto heaven to be with Jesus.

We will not.  The question of how tribulated sinners like us left on earth will be all depends whether they are pre-, mid-, or post- Tribulationist.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Palimpsest

[Anonymousguest]

5 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I'm a little sceptical whether you really get 12 years worth of education in 9 years of homeschooling or if it's more like some things getting covered here and there with occasional bald patches.

Sure you can. We covered far more at home than most public schoolers I know did. Especially in the elementary years when you can move along at the child's pace. If they "get" something you move on and do the next thing. You don't have to spend an entire 6wks on a single topic because some kids haven't gotten it yet. This is our first year in school after homeschooling for almost 20yrs and having 4 graduates. My current first grader was doing multiplication as a kindergartener.  All of the first term in 1st grade was review. They are just now moving on to single digi subtraction. Same for reading, once a child can read you don't need grade level phonics, but her school teaches phonics as part of the curriculum through 3rd grade. I have no doubt that going to school will delay her academically compared to where she would have been had we homeschooled (based on what her siblings were doing at those ages).

Highschool is a different thing, as we did more outside classes that ran the length of the school year. And I didn't want my kids graduating from highschool and then college very early, because then what? But they did start taking some classes at the local community college in highschool. 

What do you consider a "bald patch"? I don't believe there is public or private school kid who doesn't have gaps. It's not possible to cover every single thing with every single child. The important thing is that they have learned to glean and gather information when they discover they need to know it. 

[Nikedagain?]

16 hours ago, potato said:

I have a friend whose middle name is Aphrodite.  However, said friend is 100% Greek so it might be a family name.  (I know of people named Socrates, Hermione, and Pericles so it's definitely possible).

Anyway, this family is wacky and I can't wait to find out more about them.  I hate how Taina randomly places the video of one of the kids saying to like and subscribe instead of leaving it at the beginning or end.

I grew up with an Aphrodite (also 100% Greek) and she had a cousin also named Aphrodite. She was super cool.

Also, I have such a weird feeling about this mom. I haven't watched all the videos. Does the Dad ever speak? Can he? Also - she says "boobie" a lot. I found that annoying. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Nikedagain?

[AmazonGrace]

2 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Sure you can. We covered far more at home than most public schoolers I know did. Especially in the elementary years when you can move along at the child's pace. If they "get" something you move on and do the next thing. You don't have to spend an entire 6wks on a single topic because some kids haven't gotten it yet. This is our first year in school after homeschooling for almost 20yrs and having 4 graduates. My current first grader was doing multiplication as a kindergartener.  All of the first term in 1st grade was review. They are just now moving on to single digi subtraction. Same for reading, once a child can read you don't need grade level phonics, but her school teaches phonics as part of the curriculum through 3rd grade. I have no doubt that going to school will delay her academically compared to where she would have been had we homeschooled (based on what her siblings were doing at those ages).

Highschool is a different thing, as we did more outside classes that ran the length of the school year. And I didn't want my kids graduating from highschool and then college very early, because then what? But they did start taking some classes at the local community college in highschool. 

What do you consider a "bald patch"? I don't believe there is public or private school kid who doesn't have gaps. It's not possible to cover every single thing with every single child. The important thing is that they have learned to glean and gather information when they discover they need to know it. 

Congrats, it sounds like you are doing things right but it's not a given for all homeschooling families. I'm not sure I want to take it for a fact simply because someone brags on Youtube about it.  

I'm not saying that school is always good and home school is always bad, it depends on the individual situation. What's the parents' education and resources? Do they even know what a child of a certain age is expected to have learned?  Do they understand the materials themselves? What kind of teaching/ parenting styles do  they have and does it contribute to a positive learning environment or not?  How many kids and how much time do they have?  If the parents have dozens of children in a wide age range, do they have enough hours in a day to tailor their homeschooling to each child's individual needs and give everyone the attention they need when children are learning vastly different things depending on their age level?  Do they have sufficient books, materials, online teaching resources available? How are the student's educational achievements measured? ? Are all the children able to work efficiently and independently? Is the parent available to help or tied up doing something else? Are the children expected to teach each other? If a child needs special help is the parent able to recognize, accept the special needs and able to help their child? Are they following some curriculum or guidelines or do they omit whatever the parent doesn't think important or never understood well at school themselves? Did the children actually learn to glean and gather information or are they being taught in an environment that doesn't nurture that? Does the family have a cultish background in which the children are only allowed access to cult-approved information and reject information that is against their worldview? Are the parents or the children required to demonstrate somehow that the children have learned whatever they are expected to learn or is the assessment just based on the parents' understandable  feeling that their children are superior in every way?

Your mileage may vary but if the extent of a child's learning is that they learned to read and look up information, it's a good start but it makes no sense to say it's a 12 grade education if they didn't actually learn most of the stuff that other 12-grade kids would be expected to know.

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by AmazonGrace

[ViolaSebastian]

I watched her very first blog, and two things stood out to me. One, that she has MANY little ones and a fireplace with no guard on it. WTF.

Second, where are all these kiddos' toys? She posted a video of their "play area" and it appears they have three stuff animals, a rocking horse, a "heap of duplos" we never see, and three sit-and-ride toys. There's minimalism and then there's this--it just looks so spartan for having so many young children.

[Lotsofdots]

Ohhh I wasn’t going to watch, was just going to read this thread a bit.

now I’m on the 3rd video and subscribed to their channel ?