Finnish-Australian Vegan Doomsday Cult Family of 12

[Snowberry]

Wow! I thought dreads are supposed to develop naturally...

[fundiefan]

4 hours ago, Snowberry said:

Wow! I thought dreads are supposed to develop naturally...

Not when there is little about your life that is natural. Image and showing off have different standards and processes.

Note, I know absolutely nothing about dreads. But, I too, always thought it was a natural process that took time. 

[DundeeUnFundie]

My understanding of dreads is that it doesn't form 'naturally' for caucasian hair. Caucasian hair matts and tangles, but it doesn't form proper dreads on its own. Caucasians need to have it done at a hairdresser, as we saw.
It's currently a very 'surfer/hippie' hairstyle to have, but a lot of people consider it to be cultural appropriation when a white person does it to be 'cool' and disregards the history of negative treatment and stereotyping that black* people with dreadlocks have faced.

*I'm sorry if this isn't correct terminology, but I know fijian people/hair also takes on dreadlocks, and didn't want to exclude them and other islanders by saying 'of african descent'

[Gobsmacked]

Dreadlocks part 2 is showing now! 

[Snowberry]

I saw it last night. Well, fast forwarded through it. Still can't believe that she sat the rest of the kids through that length of time! That hairdresser had immense patience, but I also wonder how much the procedure was costing as well ?

[vienna_cake]

She should have made a mini series out of it. 2 parts were definitely not enough!

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

How sad for the little kids, for the hairdressers, and for the people coming in for their appointments to have a handful of kids roaming around no matter how well-behaved they are! Leave all of the kids at home with Dad - I'm sure everyone had better things to be doing than hanging out at the hairdressers. Mom take the ONE boy with the appointment in for his "special dreads day." 

I just have to believe that the little ones missed meals, snacks, and naps during that lengthy appointment. Plus, surely the older ones had more productive activities with which they could/should have been engaged.

[LovelyLuna]

it could be worse my fine friends, They seam to be clean and well taken care of.  NicNog could unschool a lot from these videos.  Sparkling Lauren had a permeant lice infestation in her dreads.   According to the video the child waited 3 years for the hairstyle. 

[Gobsmacked]

D'artagnan's 11th birthday video up. Part 1/2. The fun house looks brill!! I would like to visit! They appear to be the only family there though. Puzzle. 

[Aine]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:45 PM, Gobsmacked said:

Are real Dreads permed into place? Seems odd. 

No, definitely not! 

My hair is very fine but very curly and also very thick and through one bad bout of PTSD symptom escalation and associated crippling depression and the lack of personal care I took in that time, such as constantly putting it in a messy bun when and if left my house and sleeping with it out, it naturally formed three dreadlocks. It was unbelievably embarrassing to go to the hairdresser because it wasn't intentional and a sign of my poor self care.

But if I stopped washing my hair and stopped conditioning it and took the time to twist it a little as it matted, I have no doubt mine would form into natural dreadlocks relatively easily with no intervention.

One of the main reasons that many people with hair that is not Caucasian see white people as culturally appropriating dreadlocks is that it is a style that develops naturally in some (mostly not white) hair types and it can minimize upkeep for them. Most white people need to artificially put them in their hair with a lot of work. But of course black people face even more discrimination when they also wear their hair in a 'black' style (natural or in braids or dreadlocks etc) and often minimize discrimination with weaves of straight hair or other ways to make their hair seem less 'black'- but white people seem 'edgy' or like they are from some subculture like being a 'surfer' or a 'hippie'.

I've never wanted dreads but when people have said to me things like, "Your hair would just dread naturally!" I'm like yeah...but I pass as white and I live in a state with almost 40% of the population being African-American, that also has a horrific history of explicit and deadly racism and I have no desire to explain to people the annoying, "Well, I'm actually not white!" Because I am white for everything that matters when it comes to automatic judgments about who I am, and while I am extremely proud of my culture and dislike anyone casting doubt on my heritage, I pass. And I don't want to be another 'white' person wearing a hairstyle that people of color are judged for and called trashy for while a white person is deemed 'alternative' or something for.

Besides which, I had an ex and a close friend with dreadlocks and neither of them looked after them super well and they smelled a lot of the time! Due to their attitude of "this doesn't need any care, I'm faux au natural" not because dreadlocks are inherently smelly. When my ex asked me to use a hose and dishwashing liquid to clean his dreadlocks in the back yard one day...I think that was the clear beginning of the end. The end was already a long time coming though!

[Mabel]

On 12/9/2018 at 5:17 PM, Gobsmacked said:

They appear to be the only family there though. Puzzle. 

Probably for the best since KingJames is screaming his head off most of the time...

[lawlifelgbt]

Whoa, I fell down the rabbit hole with these guys last night! I do like the house and I like that the kids seem free to run and talk and etc., not little robots.

 

But I wonder, is the vegan diet a conscious or unconscious means of control? Most physicians say children under 5 or 6 should not be vegan- for optimal growth, brain development, etc., they need the protein, calcium and B12 from animal products (though vegetarianism is generally pretty safe). There have been cases with vegan babies and toddlers being seriously sick from that diet. Also, I know of an interesting study (ugh, can’t find it now), that showed vegans consumed about 20% fewer calories than omnivores. Of course, this is good if one is trying to lose weight, but is it healthy for a kid who needs to grow?

 

Also, is that sort of restriction setting a possibility for eating disorders later in life, or a symptom of one in the mom? There is a reason, in disorder treatment, why vegetarian but not vegan diets are accommodated, and I know many people go vegan to cover a disorder.

 

Vegetarians and vegans here, please don’t get angry with me. If you are an adult (or even a teenager) who chose this for yourself and do not have an eating disorder, of course it is your right and choice. I just wonder, nutritionally and psychologically, if it is healthy for small kids. 

[DundeeUnFundie]

It is possible to raise a child healthily on a vegan and vegetarian diet. But I think it might mean frequently checking in with the doctor and checking they still get all the nutrients/etc they need. And you need a wide wide variety of foods for that to happen. I've worked with a few vegetarian children and the only real difference I see is that they eat more food and are less fussy lol.

I think these kids might not be thrilled with veganism, if only because Leonardo started eating meat once he moved out. I think previously we did wonder about this (maybe?) since we only seem to see them eating fruit, mushrooms, spinach (and a few times when they grilled I think they had corn and onion) and hot chips. I know that's not enough carbs or protein (which is found in nuts and beans and lentils etc) but we don't see all their meals 24/7 so I don't think we can say they aren't healthy.

We do know that they aren't super strict with their veganism, since we have seen them eating treats like ice cream (dairy) and party food that likely contains gelatin (those rainbow straps at Nerfetiti's party for example).

[Aine]

3 hours ago, DundeeUnFundie said:

It is possible to raise a child healthily on a vegan and vegetarian diet. But I think it might mean frequently checking in with the doctor and checking they still get all the nutrients/etc they need. And you need a wide wide variety of foods for that to happen. I've worked with a few vegetarian children and the only real difference I see is that they eat more food and are less fussy lol.

I think these kids might not be thrilled with veganism, if only because Leonardo started eating meat once he moved out. I think previously we did wonder about this (maybe?) since we only seem to see them eating fruit, mushrooms, spinach (and a few times when they grilled I think they had corn and onion) and hot chips. I know that's not enough carbs or protein (which is found in nuts and beans and lentils etc) but we don't see all their meals 24/7 so I don't think we can say they aren't healthy.

We do know that they aren't super strict with their veganism, since we have seen them eating treats like ice cream (dairy) and party food that likely contains gelatin (those rainbow straps at Nerfetiti's party for example).

I am lactose intolerant and there are so many options for dairy free ice cream these days, even in small town Walmarts in the Deep South. Ben & Jerry's even make some of their flavors in dairy-free now (Side note: Ben and Jerry's do it so well because they mix coconut milk and almond milk and it even manages to have a great texture besides flavor. Those Halo ones are like cardboard in comparison). My advisor is vegan and his mother-in-law makes him boxes of snacks, like rice krispy treats, in which she uses a vegan gelatin alternative. He also eats like a child so this is necessary ? He is vegan for strong ethical reasons but he seriously lives on the vegan alternatives of a picky child (vegan "nuggets", fries (he does air fry those, I guess), vegan "hamburger patties", his MIL's home made treats, and I'm not really sure what else. This vegan pizza alternative? Oh and he eats vegan "cheese sticks". I make fun of him a lot but at the very least, he is true to his ethical beliefs and moral compass.  

[DundeeUnFundie]

@Aine oh I'm sorry, I completely forgot that Ben and Jerry's does vegan ice cream now! It's not very common where I live, so it slipped my mind! We do have halo but I wasn't sure if that was vegan or if it was just dairy free, thanks
There are so many alternatives out there and it's getting more and more realistic (which is fantastic), so it is possible they were eating vegan and we didn't realise. Like Oreos! Would never have guessed that one.

 

[nebula402]

So I noticed in today’s video (Straight Hair to Locs - D’Artagnan’s 11th Birthday) that she made a comment about the earth only being 6000 years old. I’ve also heard her a couple times tell the older kids to go get their buddy or help their buddy. I know some people think they aren’t as strict or fundy as the Duggars or other families, but honestly I think they might be worse. (That DITL video with the extreme blanket training! Yikes!) I get secretive and manipulative vibes from the mom that I am very worried about!

[vienna_cake]

“Earth was formed 6000 years ago”. Ahhahaha
Everything is worse than we thought

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 hours ago, nebula402 said:

So I noticed in today’s video (Straight Hair to Locs - D’Artagnan’s 11th Birthday) that she made a comment about the earth only being 6000 years old. I’ve also heard her a couple times tell the older kids to go get their buddy or help their buddy. I know some people think they aren’t as strict or fundy as the Duggars or other families, but honestly I think they might be worse. (That DITL video with the extreme blanket training! Yikes!) I get secretive and manipulative vibes from the mom that I am very worried about!

Since she had 4 back to back at the end, I guarantee the older kids each have a buddy for the younger 4. There’s no way she could manage without the buddy system. And I’m positive there’s been major blanket training. This family is just as bad as the Duggars or worse. 

[vienna_cake]

Since she had 4 back to back at the end, I guarantee the older kids each have a buddy for the younger 4. There’s no way she could manage without the buddy system. And I’m positive there’s been major blanket training. This family is just as bad as the Duggars or worse. 

Is there such a thing as buddy system?

[JermajestyDuggar]

36 minutes ago, vienna_cake said:

Is there such a thing as buddy system?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. But in fundie circles there’s a system used by families with many children. An older child is paired up with a younger child right from birth or soon after birth. The older sibling helps with the daily care of the younger sibling. Getting dressed, eating, cleaning up, etc.

[llucie]

So the wife of the son mentions meeting him in church in her "married at 18" video. But that was 4 years ago (they first meet each other when they were 14 and 15 but were only friends for a while) anyway if they really dont attend church anymore but they used to and they are still as religious is a posibility they were expelled or that they just decided to stop attending because of not agreeing with the doctrine. Like i dont know how things go in Finland, but i know here in Spain it would be really dificult to find a church that agrees that earth is 6000 years old for example. They are probably more radical than any church around them.

[teachmehowtoduggar]

Why does Leonardo have the last name Devalen? Did he take his wife's name?

[DundeeUnFundie]

At some point, he said it was actually his middle name shortened, so it's essentially his and his wife's screen name.   @teachmehowtoduggar

[MadameOvary]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:56 AM, vienna_cake said:

“Earth was formed 6000 years ago”. Ahhahaha
Everything is worse than we thought

The human mind is tiny and the timescales of the universe somewhat hard to grasp... But really not quite that hard! While homeschooling is legal in Finland, you have to show that you have covered the curriculum and you cannot opt out of learning about evolution.  I would be willing to bet that these kids' home education has not been deemed satisfactory...

[elliha]

On 12/13/2018 at 10:38 PM, DundeeUnFundie said:

It is possible to raise a child healthily on a vegan and vegetarian diet. But I think it might mean frequently checking in with the doctor and checking they still get all the nutrients/etc they need. And you need a wide wide variety of foods for that to happen. I've worked with a few vegetarian children and the only real difference I see is that they eat more food and are less fussy lol.

I think these kids might not be thrilled with veganism, if only because Leonardo started eating meat once he moved out. I think previously we did wonder about this (maybe?) since we only seem to see them eating fruit, mushrooms, spinach (and a few times when they grilled I think they had corn and onion) and hot chips. I know that's not enough carbs or protein (which is found in nuts and beans and lentils etc) but we don't see all their meals 24/7 so I don't think we can say they aren't healthy.

We do know that they aren't super strict with their veganism, since we have seen them eating treats like ice cream (dairy) and party food that likely contains gelatin (those rainbow straps at Nerfetiti's party for example).

I agree that it is possible but I think that it is wise for a parent to be open to the idea of giving your child either a vegetarian diet with milk and/or eggs if necessary. Some kids do seem to do poorly on a vegan diet and are very picky and I think that if you both have a restrictive diet and a picky kid you may have to at least try to see if the pickiness is lessened by allowing at least some more items. I know a couple who are vegan who started out having their kid eat a vegan diet but after the kid almost stealing relatives' non-vegan food and crying to try it they allowed some milk and egg products in the child's diet and he got to try other animal products in the homes of other relatives. At age 8 he chose to become a vegan again on his own accord and was then better able to eat the range of food necessary for a good vegan diet. 

I also know a mom who had been a vegan for a long time who found out she had severe deficiencies when she went to the doctor feeling very tired and depressed and she ended up not giving her children a vegan diet after all because she felt that if she as an adult wasn't able to stay well-nourished on a good vegan diet she didn't want to risk things with her child. 

I know vegans who have raised their children vegan too but I think that it is important to not be "fundamentalist" as a vegan parent if things do not seem to work out for the child when it comes to vegan food.