Joy and Austin 25: Guest Starring Grandpa Munster

[HerNameIsBuffy]

18 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

She’s a 21 year old new mom whose baby isn’t even a year old. Pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding can all cause a lot of changes to the human body. It just seems unfair and kind of gross to make fun of Joy (or any woman, whether they’ve been pregnant or not) over this.

Thank you for saying this in a MUCH nicer way than I had started typing.

[SassyPants]

14 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

She’s a 21 year old new mom whose baby isn’t even a year old. Pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding can all cause a lot of changes to the human body. It just seems unfair and kind of gross to make fun of Joy (or any woman, whether they’ve been pregnant or not) over this.

Just to present another perspective here, the Duggar women have never been known for wearing supportive bras. When I had my first kid in 1987 (in CA so maybe more progressive), the first thing the AM nurse said to me, and this was after having a c-section at 11PM the night before, was that I needed to put on a nice and firmly supportive bra. I think what we often see with the Duggars is a lack of basic education, or perhaps, the refusal/inability to follow such. It drives me crazy, especially when it involves a risk to their children (IE Jill's stupid carseat/stroller hack). In terms of long term health and strength, appropriate sized supportive garments should be worn. The thought of the probable future, back, shoulder and back pain makes me hurt for her.

These ladies are no longer poor. They have homes, high end cars, discretionary income enough to eat outside the home on a regular basis. They readily travel and aside from the show, most do not have the need for additional income. Again, I really think it's a knowledge deficit.

[BachelorToTheRapture]

I've never been to an Arkansas football game, but they do get loud enough that I think hearing protection for a baby would be good. The stadium capacity is just over 76k. If a game is exciting, think of close to that many people jammed together yelling as loud as possible (what you do as a home team when your team is on defense, especially if it's 3rd down, double if it's a close game). When the home team scores it gets loud with excitement. The last game I was at was a close game with about 79k people present, and I had to have the radio louder on the way home to be able to hear. I know there's better data out there, but definitely for a kid that age hearing protection (at times) seems like a good idea, though it wouldn't be needed constantly (tv breaks, timeouts, etc. etc.)

[JesSky03]

2 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Well, yea, people all have different noise tolerances, and babies are of course people, but I don’t understand the reasoning of encouraging a low noise-activity tolerance if they , personally, don’t have one - or if you don’t know yet - . It seems like in the long run it would make life a little more stressful. Sleepovers, a new sibling, camping, parties, etc....

Believe me I get everyone’s different, and you accommodate for that, but I’m not seeing why anyone would assume that Gideon NEEDS noise cancelling headphones- unless football games are ear harming loud. I’ve never been to one so I was kind of wondering how loud they are.

Well by all means- if your kid can sleep through noises then its not like you have to go tip toeing around your house while they nap but personally I wasn't going to test my baby's noise tolerance levels unnecessarily and risk waking him up. I've only woken my son up when I've absolutely had to because lack of a quality nap= a crabby, fussy baby. If we are out visiting people he will take naps just fine at their houses as long as I can put him in a crib or pack n play in a separate room. 

And I can't imagine bringing my son (who is the same age as Gideon) to a college football game period. The noise would be a factor for sure but also trying to breastfeed him with all those distractions and keeping him entertained for an entire game would just make the whole event stressful. But Joy and now Gideon are probably used to chaos...

[AtlanticTug]

You can be super noisy around newborns and young babies but there comes a point where they settle into more typical sleep routines. I don’t sleep with the TV blaring next to my, why would they? In our house we all actually have white noise machines (kids and adults) so nobody sleeps in silence anyway but the white noise machines help the older children if a baby is crying in the middle of the night, help our toddler not wake up if the dog starts barking, have them nap through me vacuuming or taking a conference call in the office next door etc.

Re the bra thing - they really should invest in properly fitting ones for their own comfort and the sake of their backs. And since they’re all about modesty it’s a bit weird to be so lackadaisical about bras.

[nightlady1]

These folks don't even say BREASTfeeding, they say "nursing".
It's probably a sin to even say the word "breast", so maybe its too "risky" to even think of discussing support bras because it would put visions of boobs in their minds.
Just like using the word "gender" rather than the word "sex".
Idk, just purely my thoughts on that.


 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

8 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

She’s a 21 year old new mom whose baby isn’t even a year old. Pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding can all cause a lot of changes to the human body. It just seems unfair and kind of gross to make fun of Joy (or any woman, whether they’ve been pregnant or not) over this.

Also, that’s not a dress style which is flattering to large breasted wimmins. I would avoid that style and colour like it was a virus.

[Mama Mia]

I was never very good with getting good bras while pregnant and nursing. My size was always changing . From a B pre-pregnancy to a DD when pregnant to a Ginormous when my milk first came in to up and down and up and down through the various stages - even through the damn day the size would change significantly. The band size would change a size or two too with my weight —- how do people manage that?  

At least they make pretty nursing bras now, instead of the ugly monstrosities when I was having babies.

[Jinder Roles]

Supportive or not, boob shape makes a difference in how bras fit and sit. 

Let the girl adjust to her new body in peace. Not everyone has perky boobs,  information about which bras suit them, or time to figure it out. 

 

[fluffernutter]

As a big-boobed overweight 45 year old woman who breastfed three kids, let me tell you my boobs would require some sort of containment system that hung from the ceiling to keep them upright and perky. I affectionately call them my knee warmers. Hell it took me a month to even find a website that had my size. What I do have offers not-great support, and also I have always loathed wearing bras anyway. That sucker comes off the second I walk in the door. 

[16strong]

In all fairness to Joy, she is a small woman with very large breasts. I doubt her bra size is even made, and would have to be custom ordered. Can't see Austin agreeing to plonk down the cash for that. Otoh, I can't imagine the back pain she has, oof. And fundies generally aren't, ahem, *supportive* of cosmetic surgery, even if it is for physical health reasons.

[justodd]

27 minutes ago, 16strong said:

In all fairness to Joy, she is a small woman with very large breasts. I doubt her bra size is even made, and would have to be custom ordered. Can't see Austin agreeing to plonk down the cash for that. Otoh, I can't imagine the back pain she has, oof. And fundies generally aren't, ahem, *supportive* of cosmetic surgery, even if it is for physical health reasons.

It might not be easily found on the rack at Walmart, but I’d be very, very shocked if there are no bras manufactured anywhere that would fit her. I wear an unusual size, and even I can find good, inexpensive bras on Amazon for a reasonable price. 

I think a much more likely explanation for any issues Joy may have in this area is that she doesn’t know what size she is now and is in need of a proper fitting. That’s a common problem for lots of women, religious or not.  

[Sky with diamonds]

Gosh, I may sound like a leg humper, and I promise I'm not one. Personally, I think Joy looks wonderful in that pic. First thing I noticed is how happy she looks. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, justodd said:

That’s a common problem for lots of women, religious or not.  

Yes it is.  A properly fitting bra can be life changing and in and of itself is a helpful topic to many.

But using a 21 year old woman whose baby isn't even a year old shouldn't be used as the catalyst for this discussion and I'm really, really uncomfortable that a bunch of adult women are talking about her breasts as if it's okay to put them under scrutiny because she dared have parents who put her on a reality show since she was a child.

Not specifically aiming this at the poster to whom I'm responding - using it as a launching point.

BEC is allowed in a limited fashion but there is an abundence of it in Duggarville lately.  If there is nothing else to discuss with the Duggars (a good thing, meaning they aren't multiplying, marrying off barely legal but emotionally stunted adults, or doing anything more horrifying than normal) then there are lots of other topics in other threads to explore - but it can't turn into all BEC all the time around here.

[just_ordinary]

Honestly- depending on size and your connective tissue your breasts are going to sag a little bit (or much) over time. Pregnancy can make it worse. No bra is going to prevent that. It can just lift them for optics and of course makes it comfortable as big breasts can bringt back, neck or other problems. 

I think especially the small boob trend gives people a wrong idea how most breasts look. The beauty and show industry are not helping it either. 

As long as there are no health problems this is only a superficial problem of looks.

Additionally, I am a small woman with big boobs- they are always an “eye trap”. You always look more curvy/sexy in fashion when others look cool or edgy and the current fashion makes you always look a bit fat (because small boobs are on trend). If you have a short upper body too it looks as if they are very saggy too. I mean, where are they supposed to go? Stick out in the front like Madonna’s Gaultier bra? I think not.

[Anwyn]

12 hours ago, 16strong said:

In all fairness to Joy, she is a small woman with very large breasts. I doubt her bra size is even made, and would have to be custom ordered. Can't see Austin agreeing to plonk down the cash for that. Otoh, I can't imagine the back pain she has, oof. And fundies generally aren't, ahem, *supportive* of cosmetic surgery, even if it is for physical health reasons.

 

Joy does not have a big breast, she has a little breast that's all, but as she breastfeeds without, it increases the size of her chest. It's sure that if we fall back into a model, everyone has a huge chest.

[singsingsing]

33 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I think especially the small boob trend gives people a wrong idea how most breasts look.

The small boob trend?? 

Edit: Can we please stop discussing Joy's breasts? And not go down this path where we're declaring that 'real women have _______ breasts'? I just feel like this entire topic is totally and completely unnecessary. 

[AliceInFundyland]

I feel worst of all for her on this particular issue. It’s gone on since she was an adolescent (about when I started lurking). We could stop it then.

I wish everyone would stop and say “would I want someone to say this about me?” ....independent of the pregnancy speculation which I realize people feel a whole kind of a way about.

It’s not a kind-hearted launch into how she needs a good bra. Or the best path into our own well-traveled issues with bras. She is a woman in a dress she did not pick, posing for a photo that wasn’t even her choice (likely). It wasn’t even the most recent wedding. We are stretching.

[Shadoewolf]

Cacique is carried at Lane Bryant, Torrid has a lingerie collection, (both of which are in the mall in Fayetteville) and ThirdLove makes bigger sizes too. As a droopy 44C at age 39 I've had to search out places to get bras that are a good fit and comfortable. It can be done. And I don't necessarily think it's all BEC on Joy, so much as wondering if she's so used to the buying used and never had a decent bra or if even thinking about it has been forbidden.

Oldest is working at Victoria Secret and the first thing they drill into the employees' heads is that yes, it's bras and panties. It's not gross or taboo or anything to be ashamed of. But I doubt the Duggar girls know that. (Though I could possibly see Jeremy guiding Jinger into what he likes). Just a thought. I might get downvoted but I'll live.

[AliceInFundyland]

@Shadoewolf The buy used, save the difference conversation as it applies to foundation garments could be approached more tactfully and generically than it was in this particular instance. The specific commentary about how Joy looked in that photo didn’t need to happen. It’s gone on since she was a teenager. That is the stuff that makes girls have image issues. Even if it’s well intentioned concern about the fit of their bra. It’s like, “omg people on the internet are thinking about my boobs???”

This has nothing to do with her fundiness or looming pregnancies or not pregancies or whatever.

[Iamtheway]

When Miniway was little we did day time naps with lights and sounds, and night time sleep with dark and quiet so that he would learn the difference. No idea if it worked or if we’re just lucky (probably the later) but he has always been an excellent sleeper.

[Mama Mia]

24 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

@Shadoewolf The buy used, save the difference conversation as it applies to foundation garments could be approached more tactfully and generically than it was in this particular instance. The specific commentary about how Joy looked in that photo didn’t need to happen. It’s gone on since she was a teenager. That is the stuff that makes girls have image issues. Even if it’s well intentioned concern about the fit of their bra. It’s like, “omg people on the internet are thinking about my boobs???”

This has nothing to do with her fundiness or looming pregnancies or not pregancies or whatever.

It’s that - how all the size / figure speculation would impact Joy, or Anna or Jessa or any of them. It’s also how it impacts the readers here, and how it reinforces microscoping our bodies in a negative way. For example - I’m old, so I give far fewer fucks now - but that picture of Anna everyone was recently speculating on - I have a similar body shape - I saw her in that dress and thought “ wow, that’s a really cute dress, that style is really flattering - I wonder where she got it”  - but then all I see is how pregnant or “big” she looks. Younger me would have thought “ oh, I look like that, am I fat?”  

It can be hard to know where to draw the line though - 

 

[StraightOuttaArkansas]

2 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

When Miniway was little we did day time naps with lights and sounds, and night time sleep with dark and quiet so that he would learn the difference. No idea if it worked or if we’re just lucky (probably the later) but he has always been an excellent sleeper.

We did this also with Little Outta 2 (who is 6 months). I think it made a world of difference compared to all the people I know with babies of a similar age or a bit older who where all about dark and quiet for day sleep. I think it helped him learn the difference between night and day (though we were lucky that he was a spring baby for having enough light, the darker afternoons are throwing him off a bit right now). That and practicing safe sleep are in my opinion big contributors to his good sleep habits.

 

Not aimed at you personally, but I am going to state an unpopular opinion: I don't think I "lucky" that my kid sleeps. I worked hard are being consistent and at practicing safe sleep. I have encouraged learning to self soothe and realized crying is not always a bad thing, he should be allowed to voice his feeling too. He sleeps 12-13 hours a night and naps for around 2 hours in the afternoon (and a couple of cat naps). I do get there are just some babies who can't sleep and I respect that, but I am sick of being told that "I am just lucky" when I put in the effort. (again, not saying others haven't if their kid does not sleep)

[Iamtheway]

7 minutes ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

We did this also with Little Outta 2 (who is 6 months). I think it made a world of difference compared to all the people I know with babies of a similar age or a bit older who where all about dark and quiet for day sleep. I think it helped him learn the difference between night and day (though we were lucky that he was a spring baby for having enough light, the darker afternoons are throwing him off a bit right now). That and practicing safe sleep are in my opinion big contributors to his good sleep habits.

 

Not aimed at you personally, but I am going to state an unpopular opinion: I don't think I "lucky" that my kid sleeps. I worked hard are being consistent and at practicing safe sleep. I have encouraged learning to self soothe and realized crying is not always a bad thing, he should be allowed to voice his feeling too. He sleeps 12-13 hours a night and naps for around 2 hours in the afternoon (and a couple of cat naps). I do get there are just some babies who can't sleep and I respect that, but I am sick of being told that "I am just lucky" when I put in the effort. (again, not saying others haven't if their kid does not sleep)

We co-sleep and has done since Miniway was born. For me it’s always been important that he feels completly safe falling a sleep and we still lie next to him until he’s sleeping if he wants us to. Expressing ones feelings is great, but I would never let my child cry himself to sleep. That’s not how I would like to be treated if I’m sad so why would I do that to my child?

I’m sure you have put in a lot of effort. But it’s impossible to tell if that’s why your child sleeps or if he would have slept exactly the same way if you had done nothing. Someone else might have put in the exact same amount of effort, or more, and still has a child that sleeps like crap.

My sister has three kids and has done exactly the same thing with all three but one of them still wakes up every other hour all night long. They have also done the same with all kids when it comes to food and yet one of their kids is the pickiest eater I have ever seen while the others are not. 

There is definitly some luck, or rather some personality, involved. I am pretty sure Mr Way and I are decent parents but I also think we lucked out in getting a kid that sleeps, eats and has never had a full on tantrum. And I would never think a parent with a child that doesn’t sleep or eat, or has a complete melt down, has done a worse job then me. I think most parents do the very best they can and that we should be more supportive of eachother. 

[Daisy0322]

@Mama Mia I've never been to a football game. I wouldn't have have brought ear protection for my son though. We've never been quite around him and it never occurred to me to be, I have a very loud family and that doesn't seem to phase him either. I just treat him like nothing will bother him until it does. So far the only thing he's very fussy about is socks while sleeping.... he'd rather have footie jammies. Anyways I think it probably depends on the kid but I wouldn't go into it expecting them to dislike the noise.... seems to me like you be asking to make them sensitive to it. But I'm no expert