Josiah and Lauren 12: Usual Duggar Social Media and Drift

[Meggo]

7 minutes ago, viii said:

We have two Catholic schools in my city, and for the most part, I think it's fine. The only thing I really disagree with is that the second Catholic school has the only French Immersion program in my city. Therefore, if you want your child in French Immersion, you have no option but to send them to a Catholic school and agree they'll participate. 

My mom's coworker is a Muslim, and wants her children in French Immersion, but obviously doesn't want to send them to a Catholic school. She asked if they could attend but be excused from religion and was denied. So now her child doesn't get to be in French Immersion. 

That doesn't seem right to me. French Immersion should be in a public school with a neutral setting so any child of any religion can participate. 

I think our option for French Immersion... the closest one was a Catholic school. But there is another one too, I think? 

We opted out of French Immersion because we don't speak a lick of French and my son has a speech delay. Just didn't seem fair to him. (but the class size is SO much smaller... he would have likely done better at that class size) 

4 minutes ago, viii said:

I would definitely say it's your school. We have a few students who have challenges, and I have noticed SUCH a difference from when I was in school! Like your child, challenged children were put in the hallway or sent to the office. Not at my school now... we have sensory rooms, and altered schedules, and one on one times with student counsellors and EA's... 

I have a whole HOST of issues with this school. Least of which - when he acts out they say "We don't know what to do." and they send him out. When I ask what happened before he acted out - they claim that it "just happened - no provocation" - which - I've told them time and time again cannot be true. No matter what they see as a reason - HE has a reason - and we need to see what it is.

[Baxter]

In Alberta, there are the public schools and Catholic schools which are both publicly funded school boards. But, in the public system, there is also another Christian program that runs at regular public schools at least in elementary school so there will be one regular grade one class and then one Christian grade one class. It seems very bizarre to me. There is also a Jewish school within the public school system here.

I went to a private school until high school, which are also partially funded by the government here, and while there was no actual religious instruction there and there were quite a few muslim students, we said the lord's prayer at assembly every morning, although I believe you weren't required to say it. This is why even though I only went to church occasionally with my grandparents, mostly just out of curiosity, I can still say the lord's prayer.

After all of this discussion of religious schools, I'm sure there are many religious people where I live. However, I have never had anyone ask me about religion or where I might go to church, etc. At least within the different circles that I travel, it's just not talked about. I actually have a friend who I only found out several years after we met that she goes to church, when at her baby shower, I met one of her friends from church. That is literally the only time it has ever come up.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

33 minutes ago, viii said:

 

My mom's coworker is a Muslim, and wants her children in French Immersion, but obviously doesn't want to send them to a Catholic school. She asked if they could attend but be excused from religion and was denied. So now her child doesn't get to be in French Immersion.  

 

Agree that French Immersion should be available in the public board for sure! But if it makes your mom's coworker feel better, I see girls in the Catholic uniform and hijab all the time. I assume their parents feel the education will be a bit more in line with their values even if the religion isn't quite the same.

[Carm_88]

The one Catholic school here isn't free. $8,600 for the first two children, $4300 for children 3 and 4, from the 5th child on no tuition.

The English School District here has been made a laughing stock and I hope that there will be some charges of fraud soon; but I doubt it.

[singsingsing]

Lots of Muslims send their kids to the Catholic schools here. Someone once told me it’s because they think it’s more strict than the public board. Which I seriously doubt. But I also doubt most of them are letting their kids be taught that Catholicism is right, so they must be able to opt out.

[Natalie22]

3 hours ago, Meggo said:

Nope - we had to sign something at the beginning of our time at school saying we understood this was a Catholic based education and as such - he'd be expected to participate. 

Now - I'm SURE they don't mean in the sacraments themselves. 

 

I(technically Catholic) also had to agree to pay my husband (non Catholic)  a dollar a year to enroll my son in Catholic school. Something about taxes and the other person who owns the home? It was kind of funny.

 

Actually, they can't in Ontario, at least for high school.  They will try and tell you that you have to, but a friend's brother went to a catholic high school and they fought it, even having to go to court (they had a special engineering program that was the only one in the city).  They legally cannot force you to go to religion class.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

Lots of Muslims send their kids to the Catholic schools here. Someone once told me it’s because they think it’s more strict than the public board. Which I seriously doubt. But I also doubt most of them are letting their kids be taught that Catholicism is right, so they must be able to opt out.

Growing up, I went to Catholic school. One of my friends wasn't Catholic. I don't remember what she was but her and her siblings all went to the school. When we had all school mass, she got to watch the principal's office. 

[Audrey2]

These are some things I remember from my history of American education class, which I took more than 10 years ago.

At the time when the United States was predominantly Protestant, before and even during the time that the Irish moved to the United States during the potato famine, the majority of the schools, especially in New England and the Midwest, were public schools. There was an element of Christianity that was taught in public schools. You even here people of a certain age talking about that today, when they complain that prayer was removed from public schools where it had been when they attended during the 40s and 50s and early 60s. Meanwhile, as the Catholics were coming in larger numbers, they started to resent that the public schools definitely had a Protestant flavor so after many court cases and lawsuits they earned the ability to have their own schools which were supported through tuition. 

(As a side note, Public schools were so important in New England because they wanted people to be able to read well enough to read and understand the Bible.)

[BernRul]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Lots of Muslims send their kids to the Catholic schools here. Someone once told me it’s because they think it’s more strict than the public board. Which I seriously doubt. But I also doubt most of them are letting their kids be taught that Catholicism is right, so they must be able to opt out.

I seriously doubt they can opt out. My school was only about 60-66% Catholic, but everyone had to take religious classes, including the Muslim and Buudhist kids. They might agree with the core values enough that it doesn't bother them, which is what a Buddhist friend once told me. Also, interestingly enough, Muslims and Catholics have more in common than most people think-- they both venerate Mary, for example. 

Parents probably tell their kids not to believe everything there religion teachers say, or reinforce their own religion in other ways. 

Also, while I don't know about other Catholic schools, my own loosened up about the whole "Catholicism is the only true religion" angle. They've started teaching that othet religions should be valued/respected too, and that as long as you are a good person you will still go to heaven. I remember a nun specifically telling us that Buddhism was such a beautiful religion and that we could learn from them. 

[singsingsing]

I was pretty sure exemptions were possible, and after doing a bit of googling I found that, per the Education Act, students can indeed opt out of religious education.

Quote

(11) On written application, a Roman Catholic board shall exempt a person who is qualified to be a resident pupil in respect of a secondary school operated by a public board from programs and courses of study in religious education if,

(a) the person is enrolled in a program that is not otherwise available to the person in a secondary school operated by a public board within the area of jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic board; or

(b) it is impractical by reason of distance or terrain or by reason of disability for the person to attend a secondary school operated by a public board.  1997, c. 31, s. 20; 2016, c. 5, Sched. 8, s. 1.

So basically you can be exempt if you can prove that it's impossible or impractical for you to attend a public school. But then there's this:

Quote

(13) In addition to the exemptions provided for in subsection (11), no person who is qualified to be a resident pupil in respect of a secondary school operated by a public board who attends a secondary school operated by a Roman Catholic board shall be required to take part in any program or course of study in religious education on written application to the Board of,

(a) the parent or guardian of the person;

(b) in the case of a person who is 16 or 17 years old who has withdrawn from parental control, the person himself or herself;

(c) in the case of a person who is 18 years old or older, the person himself or herself.  2006, c. 28, s. 9.

Which seems significantly more broad. It seems that if your parents apply for an exemption on your behalf, or if you're an adult (or emancipated from your parents), you can apply for an exemption yourself, for any reason. So I'm not sure what leg they'd have to stand on if challenged.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

I remember a nun specifically telling us that Buddhism was such a beautiful religion and that we could learn from them. 

Over 20 years ago one of our priests said in mass, "those of you who think only Catholics go to heaven will be very surprised to see who has seated at the table ahead of you."

It stuck with me all these years.  I moved a lot in my adult life and I have found the live and let live philosophy when it comes to non-Catholics far more often than not.

[Markie]

I’m a teacher with the public board in Ontario. One thing that annoyed me was that I could only apply to teaching jobs in the public board, whereas my Catholic peers could apply to both. The Ontario Catholic Board says they accept all applications but require a letter from your parish priest declaring you to be of good faith. Hard to get when you don’t have a parish priest. We were told at Teachers College that if we were Catholic to go to church and get ourselves known by the priests. I understand if you are teaching religion, but Math? 

[kmachete14]

2 hours ago, BernRul said:

Also, while I don't know about other Catholic schools, my own loosened up about the whole "Catholicism is the only true religion" angle. They've started teaching that othet religions should be valued/respected too, and that as long as you are a good person you will still go to heaven. I remember a nun specifically telling us that Buddhism was such a beautiful religion and that we could learn from them. 

I was taught that Catholics believe that all religions have a grain of truth in them because they were all inspired by the innate human desire to be closer to God (or something like that). Like God divinely inspired all religions or something. I went to a Catholic school. It was never my understanding that only Catholics go to heaven, I thought that was a strictly Protestant belief (Faith & good works (with good works pulling for you if you didn't have faith) vs. faith alone). 

[BachelorToTheRapture]

1 hour ago, kmachete14 said:

I was taught that Catholics believe that all religions have a grain of truth in them because they were all inspired by the innate human desire to be closer to God (or something like that). Like God divinely inspired all religions or something. I went to a Catholic school. It was never my understanding that only Catholics go to heaven, I thought that was a strictly Protestant belief (Faith & good works (with good works pulling for you if you didn't have faith) vs. faith alone). 

I was basically raised as a fundy Catholic but was taught that if you knew Catholicism and rejected it you'd go to hell, but if you didn't know it and did your best to be a good person you'd go to heaven. I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as knowing, but even the most extreme Catholics believe those with other beliefs who are sincerely doing their best will go to heaven (someone like me is destined for hell though, I was raised catholic and learned all about it and still became a heathen atheist)

[dawbs]

11 minutes ago, BachelorToTheRapture said:

I was basically raised as a fundy Catholic but was taught that if you knew Catholicism and rejected it you'd go to hell, but if you didn't know it and did your best to be a good person you'd go to heaven. I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as knowing, but even the most extreme Catholics believe those with other beliefs who are sincerely doing their best will go to heaven (someone like me is destined for hell though, I was raised catholic and learned all about it and still became a heathen atheist)

Raised fundie-lite-esque protestant, I was taught the same thing--but it made me rather hostile toward missionaries and I couldn't figure out how to get behind the 'preach to the unchurched'--because if someone explained christianity badly, so they exposed people who then would disbelieve, they went from heaven/limbo/whatever as a possibility to condemned to hell.

(But my dad was a firm proponent of the 'you'll be surprised, we never know someone's heart' school of thought to try to counter it)

[Bad Wolf]

Wait a minute. Don't you guys realize that Catholics are the wrong kind of Christian? And by the way, have you heard about Jesus? Just joking, of course.

[Meggo]

17 hours ago, Markie said:

I’m a teacher with the public board in Ontario. One thing that annoyed me was that I could only apply to teaching jobs in the public board, whereas my Catholic peers could apply to both. The Ontario Catholic Board says they accept all applications but require a letter from your parish priest declaring you to be of good faith. Hard to get when you don’t have a parish priest. We were told at Teachers College that if we were Catholic to go to church and get ourselves known by the priests. I understand if you are teaching religion, but Math? 

And as long as you're not interfering with the practice - who cares if you're not Catholic? Like if you're teaching math and the whole school prays during an assembly (okay - maybe they do? I don't know) but you're respectful. Does it matter? 

It's tough in the younger grades - my son is in SK - so his two teachers teach him everything. (Well - they would if we didn't have SO many issues there... grrrr) - they teach them how to pray - they teach him about Easter etc. So it's harder to disengage from that. 
But I have no issue with a  non Catholic person teaching my kid in a Catholic School. I mean - I'm not really Catholic so... shrug... 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, Meggo said:

And as long as you're not interfering with the practice - who cares if you're not Catholic? Like if you're teaching math and the whole school prays during an assembly (okay - maybe they do? I don't know) but you're respectful. Does it matter? 

Whether it matters or not depends.

My elder sisters went to Catholic school but by the time my brother and later I were of age to start school we went to public because there were too many lay teachers in the Catholic schools for my father.

My dad's thinking was teachers in the Catholic schools make so much less than they would make teaching at a public school he figured they were all going to be either just out of school or couldn't get hired for better paying teaching gigs.  

When he and my mom went to school the teachers were nuns, that made sense to him.  But to pay considerable money to send us where teachers were making so much less didn't make sense to him as he assumed the better teachers would go where the money is.

My dad wasn't the most progressive person.  Our public school district was consistently ranked in the top 3 of the state so it wasn't a big deal.

[SassyPants]

18 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Over 20 years ago one of our priests said in mass, "those of you who think only Catholics go to heaven will be very surprised to see who has seated at the table ahead of you."

It stuck with me all these years.  I moved a lot in my adult life and I have found the live and let live philosophy when it comes to non-Catholics far more often than not.

My departed MIL is surely surprised. She absolutely thought only Catholics in good standing were going to heaven. Severe Eye Roll .

[potato]

You'll never believe the ad that I got after catching up on this thread and moving onto the next one: 

[Meggo]

My sister went to CUA. And my other sister went to Notre Dame. 

I went to a small regional public university no one has EVER heard of outside of SE Michigan.

 

[Shadoewolf]

I live in SE Michigan, I might know Lol!

[Meggo]

4 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

I live in SE Michigan, I might know Lol!

It's in Rochester...  so I bet you DO know... 

[detroitrockcity]

So THIS conversation has brought me out of my self imposed multi year lurkdom.  Went to a progressive Catholic all girls HS and we had young woman of many faiths.  Muslim, Hindu, Christians, etc.  Parents paid a pretty price but it was a good education.  We didn’t have to “believe” what was taught in religion- just had to know the facts.   Even lesbian couples at prom.  

You mean that wasn’t normal? ?

[Meggo]

Just now, detroitrockcity said:

So THIS conversation has brought me out of my self imposed multi year lurkdom.  Went to a progressive Catholic all girls HS and we had young woman of many faiths.  Muslim, Hindu, Christians, etc.  Parents paid a pretty price but it was a good education.  We didn’t have to “believe” what was taught in religion- just had to know the facts.   Even lesbian couples at prom.  

You mean that wasn’t normal? ?

was that in MI because I think I know most of the all girls high schools and there were NO lesbian couples at prom - I'd have heard about it... 

My alma mater (a non progressive all girls catholic HS) did fire a lesbian teacher because she had undergone IVF.