Josiah and Lauren 12: Usual Duggar Social Media and Drift

[SassyPants]

26 minutes ago, SassyPantswithASideofClass said:

oooh that sounds amazing! It wasn't too grainy? and with multigrain was it like an oatmeal? What kind of berries? Sorry I'm asking, it sounds so good!

I eat green olives so much. have you ever made olive cheese balls using green olives? Its super easy!

Not too grainy. Yes, I use Trader Joe's Multi grain hot cereal. Today I used both raspberries and blueberries. I know many people add yogurt to smoothies, but I find it makes the drink too thick. I like being able to chew just a bit, and the hot cereal provides that.

[Mama Mia]

15 minutes ago, WhoompThereItIs said:

Have you tried the Schmidt 647 bread? It started showing up in my local grocery store a few months ago (I'm in the U.S.). Each flavor is low carb (white, italian, wheat), only one weight watchers point per slice, and tastes just like regular bread!

Thanks for the tip!!

[bal maiden]

Something that fascinates me about this forum is how intensely supportive of women’s autonomy the majority of posters are when it comes to abortion, and yet we see an enormous level of judgement heaped upon any birth choice that doesn’t involve a hospital, with all the concomitant patriarchy and lack of women’s autonomy that hospital birthing involves. *ducks head below parapet*

[BachelorToTheRapture]

3 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

Something that fascinates me about this forum is how intensely supportive of women’s autonomy the majority of posters are when it comes to abortion, and yet we see an enormous level of judgement heaped upon any birth choice that doesn’t involve a hospital, with all the concomitant patriarchy and lack of women’s autonomy that hospital birthing involves. *ducks head below parapet*

For me, the issue is that these women are not seeking proper medical care and doing this with the support of a doctor who would tell them not to have the homebirth if it was too risky and would know their situation if plans went wrong and they ended up in the hospital (as has been frequent for the duggar girls). I do think that the US should have a better system of qualified midwives working WITH the medical system (I've heard from other posters that this varies from state to state and country to country), but the duggars appear to choose the least qualified type of midwife and trust her entirely when it comes to their births, leading to unnecessarily risky births. I think that midwives who do not have proper training and work with a hospital when necessary should not be allowed to practice. 

From everything I've heard, maternal care as a whole in the US is awful (I've never had a kid), and I honestly believe that good, educated midwives who recognize that not all women are good candidates for homebirth could be part of the solution.

[SassyPants]

10 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

Something that fascinates me about this forum is how intensely supportive of women’s autonomy the majority of posters are when it comes to abortion, and yet we see an enormous level of judgement heaped upon any birth choice that doesn’t involve a hospital, with all the concomitant patriarchy and lack of women’s autonomy that hospital birthing involves. *ducks head below parapet*

I'm one of those folks who have major angst about post viability TABs for otherwise healthy mothers and babies (still don't want the government legislating anything though), so that's why I feel being pro choice is not in the same vein as making what I would consider uneducated choices when it comes to prenatal care and delivery. If you have done the research or have  successfully given birth vaginally, that does mitigate some of the risk. But past the age of independent viability, it seems most women have made a choice to safely birth a living baby. I just don't get not getting prenatal care from an educated, licensed professional or having all the available tools and hands on deck should a problem arise during the process. How many women truly care more about the process vs the outcome? How many women truly believe that hospital births routinely (my word, not yours) involve concomitant patriarchy and lack of women's autonomy?

12 minutes ago, BachelorToTheRapture said:

For me, the issue is that these women are not seeking proper medical care and doing this with the support of a doctor who would tell them not to have the homebirth if it was too risky and would know their situation if plans went wrong and they ended up in the hospital (as has been frequent for the duggar girls). I do think that the US should have a better system of qualified midwives working WITH the medical system (I've heard from other posters that this varies from state to state and country to country), but the duggars appear to choose the least qualified type of midwife and trust her entirely when it comes to their births, leading to unnecessarily risky births. I think that midwives who do not have proper training and work with a hospital when necessary should not be allowed to practice. 

From everything I've heard, maternal care as a whole in the US is awful (I've never had a kid), and I honestly believe that good, educated midwives who recognize that not all women are good candidates for homebirth could be part of the solution.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

[SamiKatz]

I had a cat that loved green olives with all his little kitty heart and soul.  I also had another kitty who had dandruff on her back at the base of her tail, so I had the genius idea to rub a little olive oil into her back to alleviate some of the annoyance for her.  Imagine what happened?  Olive loving cat and a cat with olive oil on her back?  Did I mention the cat with dandruff was a pretty bad tempered cat at the best of times let alone when the olive loving cat was all over her ass?

Fur was literally flying!

[caitrona]

28 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

Why? Who knows. But it does happen. I knew a woman who worked at one of the three centers in America and she said it was 50/50 on birth defects vs. healthy babies. Anyone who argues every abortion was a good idea that helped women just weakens pro-choice arguments. If you give people choices, sometimes they will make very bad ones. But if you give the vast bureaucracy of government the power to make women's choices, 100% of the time the govt will make poor choices that don't meet the individual situation.

I'm unclear what your point is here.  So government restrictrions on abortion are bad, but you think there are still women who have late term abortions just for funsies? This "I knew someone who ..." is not a valid source (especially for your claim regarding pregnant mistresses of wealthy men having vast numbers of late term abortions), and there are a lot of other factors besides seemingly "healthy bab[y]" that make termination a good idea for the woman choosing it.

[SassyPants]

36 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

I don't know how to do that(?) I can post the recipe here though!

 

Chicken Wing Dip

(everyone does it differently but this is how I make mine & it's REALLY good!!) 

shredded chicken breast

1 block of cream cheese

1 container of crumbled blue cheese

1 bag mozzarella cheese

1/4 cup ranch dressing

Franks red hot sauce to taste. 

Mix it all together & put in oven at 350 degrees for about 30 minutes. (I cook the chicken first before I put it in) or you can do the same thing in the crockpot. 

I serve it with tortilla chips. It's seriously soooo good!!!

Now this is the kind of stuff I could eat all day long!

[HerNameIsBuffy]

38 minutes ago, mollysmom said:

I don't know how to do that(?) I can post the recipe here though!

I'll make a shameless post somewhere else to drum up new contributors.

My eldest will love this. I don't have Frank's but have like 12 different kinds of hot sauce since he loves it so much so I'll find something that works.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I just don't get not getting prenatal care from an educated, licensed professional or having all the available tools and hands on deck should a problem arise during the process. How many women truly care more about the process vs the outcome? How many women truly believe that hospital births routinely (my word, not yours) involve concomitant patriarchy and lack of women's autonomy?

I agree.  I know some give birth at home successfully and if there is proper prenatal care that should be a choice women have, but I would have died giving birth to my daughter had I not been in a hospital.  The hemorrhaging was so sudden and so profuse I wouldn't have made it even if they called the ambulance immediately and I live in a major metro area minutes from a hospital.

And that was a medically unremarkable pregnancy - there was no way to foresee that happening.  And I had previously had a vaginal birth that went well so I'd have been a perfect candidate for home birth by most standards.

So while I support the right for other women to choose differently from a legal standpoint, if my daughter has kids if she even thought of home birth I would absolutely become interfering MOTY and do everything I could to dissuade her.  

She's my baby ... it would be her decision but I'd put up one hell of a fight if she wanted to risk her life for a process.

[AtlanticTug]

43 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

Something that fascinates me about this forum is how intensely supportive of women’s autonomy the majority of posters are when it comes to abortion, and yet we see an enormous level of judgement heaped upon any birth choice that doesn’t involve a hospital, with all the concomitant patriarchy and lack of women’s autonomy that hospital birthing involves. *ducks head below parapet*

But we are not discussing maternal care among the general population  and the various options that people may have. Obviously you treat low risk women differently than high risk and they should have more options available to them. 

Here we are talking about women and families who tend to make reckless, stupid and poorly informed decisions with sometimes disastrous outcomes. Women like Jill who are convinced that they know better, who continue to labour at home for far too many hours after passing meconium. Women like Jill and Joy who show no evidence of good prenatal care (and these people would absolutely post photos of ultrasounds any chance they get so their absence is telling), who try to convince us that every time there is an emergency c-section, a giant baby the size of a 2-month old miraculously and suddenly flipped transverse. Okaaay. The questionable large-for-gestational age babies which was recognized by Jinger and by Jessa who altered her diet with #2 so clearly it's not a matter of "we always birthe large babies" but a matter of most likely undiagnosed GDM.

I don't think that people have criticized Anna for her birth choices (ok, maybe the toilet live action shot) because she has had very straightforward and easy births and we did see her receiving prenatal care, at least I recall it with Mack and when she was in DC with Marcus.

[justodd]

There are a lot of problems with the seemingly simple question of why women can’t “just deliver and give up for adoption” once they’ve reached a certain point.

1. It ignores the fact that (as has been said many, many times), the vast majority of late abortions are because of serious health risks to mother, child, or both. Trying to put limitations for the sake of outlying cases that you don’t find acceptable means that there will be extra hoops for even “acceptable” cases to deal with, and that not only makes an already devastating situation that much more emotionally painful, it also increases the chance for things to end in even more tragedy. 
2. It ignores that a lot of the trauma women often experience as the result of giving up a child comes from knowing the child is out there in the world and not knowing anything about it. It’s not a bracelet that you ordered by mistake and gave to a friend because you didn’t want it. It’s a whole other person out and in the world that you created, but will never know. I can’t even begin to wrap my head around how painful that could be, and I do t wish it on anyone. 
3. In some places, rapists are given a degree of parental right. I can not begin to wrap my head around the logic in this, and yes, I would support a woman’s choice to abort a healthy fetus past the point of viability of the alternative was forcing her into a lifetime of contact with her attacker. To me, the potential emotional trauma is no less important a reason than physical health.

I will always stand on the side of sparing people already out and about in the world as much trauma as possible. Because I would no sooner prevent a woman from obtaining an abortion after spending seven months in denial and trying to hide it because the reality was too much to bear than I would prevent one from having one because she discovered her much wanted child was incompatible with life outside the womb, I also can’t bring myself to prevent someone with no more reason than “I just don’t want to.” Not only because there’s no way of knowing for sure that she doesn’t have reasons she simply doesn’t care to share, but because I think it’s the height of self righteousness to insist that someone else should know more about the validity of a woman’s choice than she does, and I don’t understand how someone can realistically expect certain criteria can be enforced. I hear a lot of people saying they’re pro life, but accept abortion for cases of rape and incest. Okay, so how do they propose that’s determined? If her rapist claims it was consensual, who gets the benefit of the doubt? Is the woman’s word enough, or does she need to supply evidence? If so, what type and who determines its authenticity? How likely is the validation process to conclude before she reaches the point where termination is considered unseemly? How many people need to agree her circumstances are as she says before she’s allowed to act? It’s a dangerous loophole that leaves too much at stake. There is no way of guaranteeing options for those you deem worthy without also allowing for those you don’t. Any attempts to pretend otherwise will only result in casualties that could have been avoided.

Oh, and today’s breakfast was dark chocolate protein pancakes (from the Kodak mix) with sugar free raspberry preserves and extra protein peanut butter. Super yummy! ?

[Satan'sFortress]

I had some lovely leftover black beans and homemade salsa.  I put them atop some tortilla chips, sprinkled with some grated cheese, and popped that under the broiler.  Sooo good!

[Carm_88]

I don't know what I'm eating next! I'm looking through my cupboards as my phone sings out Christmas music, as it will for now until January 6th-ish. I really want indian food.

[viii]

I read that article while I was at work, and Lordy did my heart hurt for that woman. I wish they had done a follow up interview. I hope she’s okay and has a beautiful baby in her arms. 

[justoneoftwo]

 I may be alone on this form for this but no we should not allow women to terminate parental rights as a father of a living child just because she doesn't want to co-parent. That father has rights that child has rights and one of the rights is to one another. If there is abuse you can terminate the rights and there is due process for that but I see enough instances of fathers having their children stolen from them through adoption that I don't understand how people can think this is automatically a good thing.

[Shadoewolf]

We had spinach and artichoke dip with crab the other day. Dinner tonight is baked pork chops with gravy and some sort of side. Hubby wanted to know what we're discussing and I brought up how he made GOOD tater tot casserole and now he wants some. Thanks FJ for the extra trip to the grocery store this evening!!

[Rachel333]

For all the arguments about home births on here (and there are plenty of people both for and against, which is what causes the arguments, so it's definitely not true that there's a consensus on the issue among posters here), I really haven't seen people say that women shouldn't have the right to give birth at home. There's a huge difference between thinking a choice is unwise and thinking it should be illegal.

And, just a personal opinion, I really hate how alternative medicine advocates use the very real history of women being  treated poorly in medicine to sell women on something that is often much more dangerous. It's not just issues around birth; I've seen Kelly Brogan get positive attention within feminist circles and she literally has said that antibiotics are a tool of the patriarchy.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

7 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Green olives and mozzarella pearls. Don't judge.

Why would we judge? Sounds awesome. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Why would we judge? Sounds awesome. 

I want to like olives.  I love the idea of them ... I just can't.

[Kittikatz]

@SorenaJ other people making choices that do not directly effect me don't make me angry. In the exceedingly rare instances of late term abortion for non-medical reasons - I don't know the circumstances of the woman/people involved so I can't muster up a whole lot of outrage. 

Also - Late term abortions are hard as hell to get. The chances of someone convincing a doctor to preform one for zero reason after the point of viability is slim to nil. The chances of someone in those circumstances having the money to fund such a procedure is even more slim. I'd rather take the chance that the occasional non-medical late term abortion happen than have politicians and interest groups remove another person's right to bodily autonomy - because I've read too many stories of women with legitimate medical reasons to abort being unable to do so because of people who have no knowledge of or involment in the pregnancy making blanket rules against later term abortion and using the spectre of imaginary women who get late term abortions for kicks and giggles as justification.  

Abortion should be between a woman and her doctor(s). The justifications and details are not for the rest of the world to judge.

As an aside I've been involved in an informal organisation that provides help for women in my former community who are in abusive relationships. I will never forget one lady who was trying to convince her abusive husband to give her a divorce. She dared raise the possibility of putting the baby up for adoption to another family member because of their ages (they were both teen-agers) and lack of financial resources. As a result of that conversation she was savagely assaulted while in her seventh month of pregnancy. He was careful not to hit her stomach because he viewed both her and the baby as his property and - in his words - "he would never agree to a divorce while she had his child" and that "she wasn't getting out of giving him his son" and that he'd never sign adoption papers or allow his child to be raised by someone else. He truly believed that he could keep control over her by forcing her to co-parent. I went to the hospital to visit her and offer her a place to stay in another city when she was released from the hospital (because he was out on bail before she had even been released from hospital). She was waiting for some sort of scan and literally praying that the baby would die so they didn't have to be tied to her abuser forever. She loved her baby, but she believed that staying would be fatal to both of them.

I truly think it would have been better for her and women like her if they would have at least had the option of considering a safe & legal abortion instead of having to rely on 'luck' and then facing a life time of abuse and manipulation if they carry their baby to term. I'd suggest that if you want something to be angry about, look no further than the current adoption laws, or the near impossibility of getting a rapist/domestic abuser convicted and lax sentences for those rapists/domestic who actually get jail time, or the fact that in many jurisdictions rapsists and domestic abusers can force visitation rights while they are behind bars and pursue custody when they are released. Those things are real - not spectres out of some right wing politician's imagination - and they are having a real impact on the lives of a large number of women and children. 

[Bad Wolf]

Spaghetti, the sauce made with soy chorizo. When I first joined FB, the conversation was nail polish. I was very confused. 

[Sky with diamonds]

10 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

I had a cat that loved green olives with all his little kitty heart and soul.  I also had another kitty who had dandruff on her back at the base of her tail, so I had the genius idea to rub a little olive oil into her back to alleviate some of the annoyance for her.  Imagine what happened?  Olive loving cat and a cat with olive oil on her back?  Did I mention the cat with dandruff was a pretty bad tempered cat at the best of times let alone when the olive loving cat was all over her ass?

Fur was literally flying!

Did the olive oil help with your cats dandruff? ?

On the food topic..I had some pea soup for my dinner. Very tasty and I plan to make a few more batches when/if my father feels up to eating it. 

[HurricaneBells]

My puppy Bear is a garbage disposal lol. Eats all kind of strange things but after all the things we have let him try, olives were the deal breaker. He tried to eat one, went in his mouth 3 times but in the end he was like yeah NOPE!

[Markie]

I hope Lauren’s sister continues her education and does not end up being the teen bride of another fundy boy. She seems to really enjoy learning. If she does eventually marry, hopefully it is to someone who is her equal.