There's always womb for one more! Upcoming Babies 12

[ophelia]

I think the Bates girls are in some ways too educated for them. Especially Tori. I don't think any Morton bride has a degree, so a a college educated wife would probably be a threat to the undereducated Morton sons. Carlin might not really be into college, but she seems just too loud and strong willed to submit to the rules of the Morton compound. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, ophelia said:

I think the Bates girls are in some ways too educated for them. Especially Tori. I don't think any Morton bride has a degree, so a a college educated wife would probably be a threat to the undereducated Morton sons. Carlin might not really be into college, but she seems just too loud and strong willed to submit to the rules of the Morton compound. 

The education part might be true but I think some of the Morton choices have been girls that aren’t meek and quite wives. The Roberts girls seem to be pretty outgoing like the Bates girls. 

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The education part might be true but I think some of the Morton choices have been girls that aren’t meek and quite wives. The Roberts girls seem to be pretty outgoing like the Bates girls. 

They may seem outgoing, but after she was engaged, Campbell made a post about learning to submit to her husband, his job to provide, and of course, make the babies. They drank the kool-aid long ago and while they portray an "image", in practice, they are still all fundie. 

As singles, they all hang out together and post pictures of their fun lives, blah, blah, blah. But, once they marry up, that all stops and they become submissive breeders. Despite sometimes "doing" other things in life; those other things don't negate their primary role or responsibility. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

learning to submit to her husband,

I'm beginning to think this whole thing is just one big D/s kink for all of them.

Which is fine if that's a couple's thing but leave your kids and Jesus out of it, please.

[tabitha2]

Wives are seen  different than unmarried girls. Her fun years can be as a unattached girl  but When she marries she becomes automatically  a woman who’s God given role is as helpmeet and mother. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Remember when Daisy Roberts made a public Instagram post of her sitting on a toilet saying she was taking the Browns to the Super Bowl? Yeah, she’s gonna have a hard time becoming a meek submissive wife overnight.

[FilleMondaine]

On 11/19/2018 at 11:10 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t blame anyone for using formula. It’s the best choice for some moms. Breast is not always best. It’s possible Alyssa had trouble nursing the first and went to formula. Then went straight to formula for the second. If I had a third, I would do formula as well. I didn’t enjoy breastfeeding at all. And weaning was awful. So it’s totally possible a fundie formula feeds by choice. More power to her. I’m sure there’s a lot of pressure to BF in the fundie community. She should do what she thinks is best for her and the baby. 

I believe that aristocratic women in Western societies often sent their children to wet-nurses in order to regain their fertility faster. If I recall, Remedios Barrios talks about it in her book about the lady-of-the-house on the latifundia.  (caveat: I didnt' bother to verify any of this before writing)

[fundiefan]

6 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

I believe that aristocratic women in Western societies often sent their children to wet-nurses in order to regain their fertility faster. If I recall, Remedios Barrios talks about it in her book about the lady-of-the-house on the latifundia.  (caveat: I didnt' bother to verify any of this before writing)

It was very common in medieval Europe among the nobility and especially royalty. With infant mortality as high as it was, the need for an heir and many spares was high. Royal & Noble infants rarely even lived in the same place as their parents, especially if they were the heir. They had their own household & their own courts. And of course, their own wet nurses. Who, by the way, had just given birth to their own children & left them to nurse someone else's baby. Such a strange society. But, that's off track. 

I can't verify this from experience, obviously, but I have an obsessive interest in Medieval European history and have read more books than a reasonable person should, and the whole process is documented extensively. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

It was very common in medieval Europe among the nobility and especially royalty. With infant mortality as high as it was, the need for an heir and many spares was high. Royal & Noble infants rarely even lived in the same place as their parents, especially if they were the heir. They had their own household & their own courts. And of course, their own wet nurses. Who, by the way, had just given birth to their own children & left them to nurse someone else's baby. Such a strange society. But, that's off track. 

I can't verify this from experience, obviously, but I have an obsessive interest in Medieval European history and have read more books than a reasonable person should, and the whole process is documented extensively. 

 

I’ve always wondered.... did some women just keep nursing and nursing and nursing other people’s children for years after they were done nursing their own? I ask because I probably could have kept my milk supply up for years after I quit if I wanted to. 

[meee]

21 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

It was very common in medieval Europe among the nobility and especially royalty. With infant mortality as high as it was, the need for an heir and many spares was high. Royal & Noble infants rarely even lived in the same place as their parents, especially if they were the heir. They had their own household & their own courts. And of course, their own wet nurses. Who, by the way, had just given birth to their own children & left them to nurse someone else's baby. Such a strange society. But, that's off track. 

I can't verify this from experience, obviously, but I have an obsessive interest in Medieval European history and have read more books than a reasonable person should, and the whole process is documented extensively. 

 

Wait, who nursed the wet nurse's baby then? Is it possible they nursed both, or nurses were chosen whose baby had just died, or just been weaned, or something? I'm also very interested in medieval European history, but I don't know anything about nursing practices back then!

[fundiefan]

17 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve always wondered.... did some women just keep nursing and nursing and nursing other people’s children for years after they were done nursing their own? I ask because I probably could have kept my milk supply up for years after I quit if I wanted to. 

It is an interesting topic but not one with a lot of records or verifiable information. In the US, slaves were often used as wet nurses. In those cases though, I think they tandem nursed their own infants. Or, in some cases, at least.

King George III had 15 living children and apparently, they only had two wet nurses the whole time. I don't remember exactly where I read that but I have "remembered" having read it for many years. 

Now I wish I'd pay more attention to small details that barely registered as I pursue my obsessions. 

6 minutes ago, meee said:

Wait, who nursed the wet nurse's baby then? Is it possible they nursed both, or nurses were chosen whose baby had just died, or just been weaned, or something? I'm also very interested in medieval European history, but I don't know anything about nursing practices back then!

In some known cases, the wet nurse's baby went to another wet nurse. Or a neighbor/friend/relative. In England, a wet nurse could make enough money to support her entire family so the choice was one of survival. 

 

[meee]

5 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

It is an interesting topic but not one with a lot of records or verifiable information. In the US, slaves were often used as wet nurses. In those cases though, I think they tandem nursed their own infants. Or, in some cases, at least.

King George III had 15 living children and apparently, they only had two wet nurses the whole time. I don't remember exactly where I read that but I have "remembered" having read it for many years. 

Now I wish I'd pay more attention to small details that barely registered as I pursue my obsessions. 

In some known cases, the wet nurse's baby went to another wet nurse. Or a neighbor/friend/relative. In England, a wet nurse could make enough money to support her entire family so the choice was one of survival. 

 

Absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I feel like a lot of choices back then were for survival. But presumably they had to do something with their own baby, is what I meant. Although, didn't English royalty prefer that other nobility serve as their wet nurses? Or have I been reading too much historical fiction?

[singsingsing]

13 minutes ago, meee said:

Wait, who nursed the wet nurse's baby then? Is it possible they nursed both, or nurses were chosen whose baby had just died, or just been weaned, or something? I'm also very interested in medieval European history, but I don't know anything about nursing practices back then!

Yes and yes. And yes. Sometimes they left their own babies to be nursed by another woman while they went to be wet nurse to a noblewoman's infant, sometimes they nursed their own babies and another woman's at the same time, and sometimes they were women whose babies had just died, or whose babies were ready to be weaned but they were still producing milk.

I'm actually not sure what the most common setup was. But I'm almost certain that Thomas More's children were nursed by a woman who was nursing her own babies at the same time, for example.

I don't even think it was all about producing heirs quickly for a lot of them. Some of it was because it was considered healthier for the woman to not nurse, but I honestly think a lot of it was just to relieve her of the trouble of doing it herself. It was a luxury to not have to nurse your own babies if you had the means to hire a wet nurse.

[fundiefan]

@meee - I totally got what you meant. I didn't mean to come off as a know it all or anything. I only remember bits and pieces of the topic because it's never been the focus. 

I think every scenario is/was a possible one. It wasn't a regulated profession. It was, more or less, just a fact of life and it probably happened for many reasons and in many ways with as many motives as there were participants. 

@singsingsing  - It probably was a convenience for some. But, for others, it was a definite means of producing as many heirs as possible, particularly among royalty. What you say about it being thought that it was healthier not to nurse - - nobility & royalty had higher infant mortality rates than poor people. I don't say that to question you - I say it because I agree with you in that it was the thought process at the time. But, as with much of history, has since been proven to be so very wrong. Just like with their strapping infants to boards & swaddling them beyond movement for their first year.

I am just glad I was born and raised in the 20th century.

[Dandruff]

Wet nurse...the job interviews must have been interesting.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Wet nurse...the job interviews must have been interesting.

I bet their references were the children they nursed. If they had grown into strapping young lads and healthy little girls. When really, it was all the communicable diseases that were the biggest threat to their health. 

It probably would have been best to send all the royal babies away to the countryside if they wanted them to survive. Castles and cities back then were just a big cesspool of disease and doctors weren’t able to do much for them. So you may as well send them to the  country where disease was spread less and water was probably a little cleaner. 

[FilleMondaine]

So many cool quotes...just replying as I can--the politics of breastfeeding fascinate me!

Richard the Lionhearted was nursed side by side with an aristocratic woman and her son...I vaguely remember reading that there was a special name for such "brothers". I know that many wet nurses came from poor families, but apparently High Middle Ages royalty wanted only aristocratic milk.

On the other side of the millennium, Queen Victoria detested nursing her kids ('felt like a cow'), and sent them to be nursed. Her own children nursed their kiddos unlike the Queen. I also remember reading that one of the reasons Chemise a la Reine was invented was so that Marie Antoinette could nurse her children.

And doing my public duty: if anyone has breastmilk to spare, you can donate it and help premies and needy kiddos.

[lexiloumarie]

8 hours ago, fundiefan said:

They may seem outgoing, but after she was engaged, Campbell made a post about learning to submit to her husband, his job to provide, and of course, make the babies. They drank the kool-aid long ago and while they portray an "image", in practice, they are still all fundie. 

As singles, they all hang out together and post pictures of their fun lives, blah, blah, blah. But, once they marry up, that all stops and they become submissive breeders. Despite sometimes "doing" other things in life; those other things don't negate their primary role or responsibility. 

Exactly - Carlin or Lauren (Duggar) or Campbell may seem spunky and opinionated but this is what they believe. This is the patriarchal viewpoint that they want to use to influence the rest of us via their involvement in the government (see Taliban Dan and John David and even Jim Bob).

[fundiefan]

7 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

On the other side of the millennium, Queen Victoria detested nursing her kids ('felt like a cow'), and sent them to be nursed. Her own children nursed their kiddos unlike the Queen. I also remember reading that one of the reasons Chemise a la Reine was invented was so that Marie Antoinette could nurse her children.

And doing my public duty: if anyone has breastmilk to spare, you can donate it and help premies and needy kiddos.

I find that woman (Victoria) fascinating. She was reportedly very sensual and hated pregnancy because it interfered with her sex life. She hated child birth because it was so hard on her and she often suffered from postpartum depression (not that they knew that at the time) and, as you said, detested nursing. She apparently said babies were ugly and looked like frogs. The process of having a baby interfered with her duties as Queen. 

But, she had an extremely close relationship with most of her children, after they became "little humans" rather than infants. She kept mementos of their entire lives & all their letters after they were adults. She was pretty involved in all their lives too, even as they became adults & married & moved away. 

Some biographers say she was just an honest woman about marriage & motherhood at a time when few would consider such openness acceptable.

[NoJulius]

On 11/18/2018 at 9:22 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m annoyed that she has 3 L names and then Caleb ? the littlest shit bothers me sometimes. 

It looks like Bethany’s next baby will be a girl (according to a FB gender reveal) and if she gives her an L name I might die

I am more annoyed by the fact, that she has a Lewis Lane

[Mrs. Bean]

Thomas Keen ( brother of Melissa Keen Turley and Lindsay Keen Disharoon) and his wife Regan has a baby last week and something went wrong. There is a link to GFM on Lindsay’s FB asking for 10k to help offset the expenses. The way it’s worded I’m wondering about the kind of health insurance the couple had, it didn’t cover much it seems. Is that the Samaritan Ministries? 

[JordynDarby5]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:16 PM, fundiefan said:

I find that woman (Victoria) fascinating. She was reportedly very sensual and hated pregnancy because it interfered with her sex life. She hated child birth because it was so hard on her and she often suffered from postpartum depression (not that they knew that at the time) and, as you said, detested nursing. She apparently said babies were ugly and looked like frogs. The process of having a baby interfered with her duties as Queen. 

But, she had an extremely close relationship with most of her children, after they became "little humans" rather than infants. She kept mementos of their entire lives & all their letters after they were adults. She was pretty involved in all their lives too, even as they became adults & married & moved away. 

Some biographers say she was just an honest woman about marriage & motherhood at a time when few would consider such openness acceptable.

I'm not sure I'd go that far on extremely close relationship with her children. She tried to control all their lives, treated her oldest son like crap, married off two daughters to penniless princes because she didn't want to lose them being at her beck and call, she tried to keep her youngest daughter from ever marrying for that same reason and got mad when that daughter told her she wanted to marry and who.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, JordynDarby5 said:

I'm not sure I'd go that far on extremely close relationship with her children. She tried to control all their lives, treated her oldest son like crap, married off two daughters to penniless princes because she didn't want to lose them being at her beck and call, she tried to keep her youngest daughter from ever marrying for that same reason and got mad when that daughter told her she wanted to marry and who.  

It amazes me how controlling she could be of her children when she HATED how controlling her mother was to her. 

[Bethella]

On 11/22/2018 at 5:32 AM, Mrs. Bean said:

Is that the Samaritan Ministries? 

It could be Scamaritan or it could be a high deductible insurance plan, hard to say which one it is without more information.

[nastyhobbitses]

On 11/20/2018 at 11:16 PM, fundiefan said:

I find that woman (Victoria) fascinating. She was reportedly very sensual and hated pregnancy because it interfered with her sex life. She hated child birth because it was so hard on her and she often suffered from postpartum depression (not that they knew that at the time) and, as you said, detested nursing. She apparently said babies were ugly and looked like frogs. The process of having a baby interfered with her duties as Queen. 

But, she had an extremely close relationship with most of her children, after they became "little humans" rather than infants. She kept mementos of their entire lives & all their letters after they were adults. She was pretty involved in all their lives too, even as they became adults & married & moved away. 

Some biographers say she was just an honest woman about marriage & motherhood at a time when few would consider such openness acceptable.

Nah, she was super controlling of her kids and tried to control damn near every aspect of their lives. She was much the same with some of her grandchildren (particularly Alice's kids after Alice died of diphtheria), though in that particular case, she actually did have a point when she tried to forbid Alix from marrying Grand Duke Nicholas of Russia (though Victoria's choice was Alix's cousin, her grandson Prince Albert Victor, who was direct heir to the throne but kinda dumb, a bit of a cad who contracted an impressive number of STDs and alleged illegitimate children, and was prone to scandal, so...)