Immigration Caravans and Border Issues

[Howl]

Kirstjen "Baby Cage" Nielsen is busy at the border in California, calling out the judge who stayed Trump's anti-asylum order.  She's claiming that the judge is way out of line in the ruling, and is just wrong, wrong, wrong to go against wise and thoughtful Trump, who knows what's what about what regarding immigration.

Lickspittle doesn't even come close to what she's doing. One can only assume she's groveling for her job.  Whatever it is, she's debasing herself and it's disgusting.  Alternately, she really DOES believe what she's saying.....

[Howl]

Well crap, there's so much going on with Interpol, the SC Justice Roberts rebuke,  and Saudi Arabia and Khashoggi and Yemen and and and and and that THIS slipped by, apparently because troops at the border are so *yesterday* and they were all supposed to be going home but NO, well yes, some will go home, maybe, most even, but some might replace them, but who knows. 

Anyway, more to the point, "the White House signed a late Tuesday night directive expanding the authorities U.S. troops have at the border."  This was sent out by John Kelly.  Mattis is making calming noises.  However, this may contravene Posse Comitatus but nothing is going to change unless Kirstjen Nielson wants it to change, so "Mattis said Wednesday while the authorities for U.S. troops along the border have expanded, the Standing Rules for the Use of Force for troops deployed to the border have not changed — unless he decides they need to."  

Details in this article from MilitaryTimes.com     Mattis explains new roles, authorities at border

and from TaskandPurpose.com    ‘Relax,’ US Troops On The Border Are Not There To Shoot Migrants, Mattis Says

So maybe yes, this isn't a big deal. But anything to do with the Trump crazy machine always makes me nervous. 

[Howl]

Apparently the WH meeting  that preceded Kelly's memo Tuesday evening  was tense. I'd guess it involved yelling screaming and carrying on with Kelly and Nielson attempting to hold out and ultimately capitulating further selling their souls. 

Stephen Miller is behind a lot all of this draconian and crazy immigration policy; his fingerprints are all over it.  He's manipulating the levers of governance by pushing Trump to expand his Executive powers. 

Fiery West Wing meeting led to more power for military at U.S.-Mexico border

Aides squared off against administration immigration hawks over an order they said was beyond the president's constitutional powers.

A few excerpts here

Quote

Kelly and Nielsen eventually came around to the president’s position, and the bitter dispute ended Tuesday evening when Kelly, on Trump’s orders, signed a Cabinet declaration granting the military the disputed authority. The move ran afoul of the guidance offered by the White House counsel, Emmet Flood, who cautioned that it was likely to run into constitutional roadblocks, according to a second source familiar with the conversations.

and here

Quote

The president’s move on Tuesday is also illustrative of the extent to which, on immigration in particular, he has stretched the limits of his constitutional powers, preferring to issue executive orders rather than work through Congress. It’s an instinct that has been encouraged by advisers like Miller, who have pointed out that previous presidents have extended the powers of the executive branch further.

As noted in the previous post, nobody bothered to inform Mattis, who had to review the order, and then inform everybody via a press gaggle to (basically) chill the fuck out, because very few deployed military will have guns, and the scenario covered by the new order is unlikely to happen.  I think Mattis will try to hold out (if he does't get fired first) until the new Congress convenes. 

Although my worst side has to say that it would be great if a confrontation happened with loose-cannon, wing-nut self-styled paramilitaries (we wear camo!) who would subsequently and instantly understand clearly the meaning of the 2nd Amendment's well-regulated militia. 

So, here we have the response from the New Mexico border town that was invaded by Pancho Villa over 100 years ago: 

Border town invaded by Pancho Villa rejects talk of American troops

 

[Howl]

And a bit more: 

Constitutional questions emerge about expanding role of troops on U.S. soil

There are a lot of interesting points covered, but the most interesting to me are 

• Kelly signed off on the Cabinet Memo; however, WH Chief of Staff has zero authority over Cabinet members, so this gives Trump a form of protection
• There is a proviso in the Cabinet Memo that “The Secretary of Defense shall determine the duration of this deployment,” and “shall consult with the Attorney General and Secretary of Homeland Security prior to withdrawing Department of Defense personnel."

 

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

My God, they were tear gassing the migrants in Tijuana today. 

This situation makes me so angry.  Trump and his henchmen are just so hellbent on escalating matters. These are people in that caravan.  Desperate people.  Yes, it's possible that there may be some that should ultimately be sent back to their original country, but most of them are just people looking for a chance at a better life. Most people dont leave their homes like this unless they are desperate. Stop fucking treating them like a bunch of animals and let them make their applications in a timely and orderly fashion.  The more that Trumpy insists on acting like it's a fucking war, the more likely that people get hurt or killed.  

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

My God, they were tear gassing the migrants in Tijuana today. 

And my first reaction was to wonder how quickly it will progress to live fire. And that thought is both depressing and terrifying.

[fraurosena]

After spending a wonderful Sunday with my 14 month old grandson, I wake up to this horrific news. I am beyond appalled.

• Who was the idiot who thought this would be a good idea? (Stephen Miller, probably)
• Who was the idiot who gave the order at the border? (Why didn't they refuse?)
• Who was/were the idiot/s who actually fired the teargas at moms and toddlers? (Why didn't they refuse?)

All of them are culpable in this tragedy. Anyone who doesn't protest this is culpable in this tragedy too.

When live shots are finally fired (because they will be) and Mexico decides it won't stand having people on its sovereign soil being shot/killed, and considers it to be an act of aggression, what then? Does nobody think of the consequences? (Don't answer, I know they don't.)

[Penny]

He is going to start a war with Mexico. What a moron! 

[Howl]

Am I understanding that these people were on the Mexican side of the border and the tear gas canisters were fired INTO MEXICO?

This is the caption to the picture on CNN of a mother with two young children, one in diapers, running from a canister of tear gas close by: "A migrant family runs from tear gas released by US border patrol agents near the fence between Tijuana, Mexico, and San Diego."

Kirstjen Nielson, whatever you think makes this worth it, it's not worth your soul, or whatever is left of it that you haven't sold to Donald J. Trump. 

[onekidanddone]

19 minutes ago, Howl said:

Am I understanding that these people were on the Mexican side of the border and the tear gas canisters were fired INTO MEXICO?

This is the caption to the picture on CNN of a mother with two young children, one in diapers, running from a canister of tear gas close by: "A migrant family runs from tear gas released by US border patrol agents near the fence between Tijuana, Mexico, and San Diego."

Kirstjen Nielson, whatever you think makes this worth it, it's not worth your soul, or whatever is left of it that you haven't sold to Donald J. Trump. 

The job qualifications for the Trump Sycophantic Collation states as such:  "Applicant must possess neither soul nor spine". "Any applicant discovered to have any humanity will be immediately terminated".

[Howl]

50 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

The job qualifications for the Trump Sycophantic Collation states as such:  "Applicant must possess neither soul nor spine". "Any applicant discovered to have any humanity will be immediately terminated".

Op-ed (painful read) from the Houston Chronicle, written by a woman who volunteered as a translator for asylum seekers at the border in Texas: 

When we hurt migrants, we hurt Americans [Opinion]

 

 

[fraurosena]

Apart from the heart-wrenching tales about what is done to asylum seekers, these are the facts rom @Howl's article that I find most worrisome. This is how the horrors of the concentration camps in nazi Germany could perpetrate all their atrocities. It's only a matter of time before the same happens in America, if nothing is done about it soon.

Quote

What had happened to so many of these working dads and moms, that they could see a girl freezing in a concrete room and laugh? How could these regular Americans tell a boy his fingers would be severed if he disobeyed? The zero-tolerance detention policy was designed with full knowledge of how it would damage children. But its most far-reaching effect may be the way it has distorted American men and women who enforce it.

Quote

“These officers are under untenable pressure,” a researcher on corrections officers told me. Of the border agents who purposely torment migrant children, “there’s a lot of in-group pressure, possibly led by a few strong personalities,” she said. Like military and police culture, she said, immigration officers have a “culture of toughness and unity. If you’re not with them you’re against them.”

Quote

Given the right circumstances, most humans have it in us to hurt those with less power. It’s surprisingly easy to induce a sense of disgust in a lab, and after that’s achieved, normal people will steal and cheat others. Wearing a uniform can hold particular power, making us do things we might not otherwise — sometimes even making us better at performing those actions.

 

[fraurosena]

Good point:

 

[AmazonGrace]

 

[Howl]

  And it's a cynical manufactured crisis.  Let large groups of desperate people sit at the border on the Mexican side, jerk Mexico around a little because they wouldn't pay for the wall and try to force Mexico to create some type of program to take in the refugees.  The new administration in Mexico takes over the first week of Dec.  A few days ago there were two contradictory articles on CNN.  One said Mexico had a program/agreement to take in the refugees.  The other article was Mexico denying there was zero agreement on anything to do with refugees. 

[Howl]

300 troops shifted from Texas and Arizona to California for border duty

 

[fraurosena]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

300 troops shifted from Texas and Arizona to California for border duty

 

Huh. I thought Mattis said last week that they were all going to be home by December 15.

[Howl]

I think he said many would be home, but possibly others would take their place. 

With Trump's melt downs becoming more frequent, his obsession with the border wall surfacing again, with the tendency to forget entirely about the deployment the day after the mid terms, Kirstjen Nielson sucking off* Trump/Stephen Miller at every available moment so she can extend her job a day to a week at a time, with the thread of a partial gov't shut down looming, who knows what will happen.  Also, Trump is primping and getting gussied up for a meeting with his sweetheart at the G20, where he'll get his current marching orders for Ukraine and NATO. 

*Sorry to be so crude, but Nielson with her Kellyanne-level talking points is seriously PISSING ME OFF! 

[Destiny]

 

Gross. I have asthma. Tear gas could put me in a life threatening attack. These are human people you fucking racist bag of dicks.

[fraurosena]

Sweet Rufus.

 

[smittykins]

5 hours ago, Destiny said:

Gross. I have asthma. Tear gas could put me in a life threatening attack. These are human people you fucking racist bag of dicks.

At this point, I think he's an insult to bags of dicks.

[Howl]

6 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Sweet Rufus.

This both enrages me and makes my heart hurt.  The results will be predictable.  A predator(s) will be found on-site, molesting children.  Why would ANYONE agree to this? 

[Ozlsn]

22 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

 

I just want someone to make him prove that, preferably on live television.

[fraurosena]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

This both enrages me and makes my heart hurt.  The results will be predictable.  A predator(s) will be found on-site, molesting children.  Why would ANYONE agree to this? 

I’m appalled at this thought, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the whole point, to act as a further deterrent.

Horrific detail is that the asylum seekers are completely unaware of the atrocities awaiting them upon their arrival. How would they know? They’re dirt poor, barefoot and desperate, without social media to inform them that the shining light on the hill has been brutally extinguished by racist fucks who deem them less than human.

[Audrey2]

On 11/26/2018 at 11:13 PM, AmazonGrace said:

 

So, if this is no big deal and natural, would they be okay with getting sprayed by pepper spray at the next MAGA rally or white supremacist rally?