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Tori and Bobby Smith Part 5: Had Kade and Pregnant Again


Coconut Flan

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I’ve often wondered if this headship model is actually utilized in these 2nd generation marriages. Can you see Ben telling Jessa what she’s going to do? How about John Webster? Personally, I think it’s become an embellished myth.

Edited by SassyPants
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16 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

I think Gil enjoys being the proud peacock of his church too much to hire someone to do anything remotely related to actual ministry

I agree, he loves being the leader of his church and all eyes on him.  No way would he share that spotlight even if the church grew big enough so it was necessary.   So I don't think that Bobby is going to step in and be, say, an assistant pastor or something.  Maybe Leader of Biblical Studies and Godly Grifting, no wait, not grifting, Gil's the expert on that. 

And furthermore I can't see Gil paying a decent salary to a family member because he's the King of Grifting and there's no better people to grift off of than family.  He sees an opportunity to grift at every turn.

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I’ve often wondered if this headship model is actually utilized in these 2nd generation marriages.

I have wondered that as well and @SassyPants you gave a good example of Ben / Jessa and John / Alyssa.   Jessa is headstrong, idk about Alyssa but it seems that John is the type of guy who listens to what she has to say.  

Another example: Cherin.   As recently discussed seems Erin seems to be the one who calls a lot of shots over Chad.  And now we have Micheal and Brandon moving so she can start school.   

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36 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

I was never under the impression that Bobby was part of IBPL,  I thought he was a run of the mill fundie Baptist. I know Chad and Brandon are, I didn’t  think Bobby, Whitney, John, Kelton or Evan were involved in IBPL, at least growing up.

 

 

 

John was very much a part of IBLP growing up. I believe his father, Representative Daniel Webster, actually faced political backlash during a campaign over his ties to Gothard.

Of the others mentioned, I don’t know what their backgrounds are like. I’m more interested in what their beliefs are like currently though, especially the ones with children. 

Edited by VelociRapture
Removed link because I don’t actually know how reliable the site is.
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1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

John was very much a part of IBLP growing up. I believe his father, Representative Daniel Webster, actually faced political backlash during a campaign over his ties to Gothard.

Of the others mentioned, I don’t know what their backgrounds are like. I’m more interested in what their beliefs are like currently though, especially the ones with children. 

Kelton's family, according to people who know the Balkas, did homeschool and attend ATI sponsored events. After the mother's death, the kids went to private Christian schools. 

Evan and Bobby did attend some IBLP and ATI events as teens at least (it's hard to figure out on Bobby because his last name is Smith). 

Daniel Webster is very much into the whole IBLP thing. Much of the legislation he introduced in the state house was related to issues that are prominent with IBLP

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Well part of it is that I really do think Kelly makes sure the men her daughters marry absolutely ADORE them. So although they are all spouting the submission sh*t, she knows that these men have put her daughters on a pedestal. They are not going to be trampled in the relationship. 

She has also curated her daughters to be cute (but not sensual), somewhat educated (Clown college encouraged), and "datable" (not labeled a courtship). This may actually be more appealing to smart, ambitious, (can actually support a family, not grift) and levelheaded men. 

She's not like Jimbob selling them off to his mentees, or Lori Alexander, who says "any godly young man will do," or Jill Rodrigues absolutely desperate to advertise them to any creep who says he wants a meek wife, or whatever that family is with the really old stay at home daughters who have such strict standards and isolation they have become reclusive. 

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3 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

Well part of it is that I really do think Kelly makes sure the men her daughters marry absolutely ADORE them. So although they are all spouting the submission sh*t, she knows that these men have put her daughters on a pedestal. They are not going to be trampled in the relationship. 

She has also curated her daughters to be cute (but not sensual), somewhat educated (Clown college encouraged), and "datable" (not labeled a courtship). This may actually be more appealing to smart, ambitious, (can actually support a family, not grift) and levelheaded men. 

She's not like Jimbob selling them off to his mentees, or Lori Alexander, who says "any godly young man will do," or Jill Rodrigues absolutely desperate to advertise them to any creep who says he wants a meek wife, or whatever that family is with the really old stay at home daughters who have such strict standards and isolation they have become reclusive. 

Kelly does lobby those young men to death though. If I was Brandon or Bobby, I would have left a long time ago. She was pestering Brandon every time she saw him. And I saw the episode the other night where Bobby and Kelton graduated. Poor Bobby's diploma was still wet from the ink and she's going on and on about when he's moving to Tennessee and when he's proposing. Tori was just as bad. I think the only guy not to get that treatment since the show started was Kelton. Maybe it's because he moved faster than even Kelly was anticipating. 

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I actually don't think that the whole headship model ever worked in Gil's and Kelly's marriage. Maybe that is want they want to tell the world around them, but Kelly doesn't strike me as meek and submissive wife. She wants to get her way and she probably has her strategies to make Gil decide in her favor so that on the outside it appears that he is her headship. 

I think it is different with JimBooB and Michelle since Michelle just doesn't seem as intelligent as Kelly and might not be able to pull off something like this. I could be totally wrong though. 

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8 hours ago, ophelia said:

I actually don't think that the whole headship model ever worked in Gil's and Kelly's marriage. Maybe that is want they want to tell the world around them, but Kelly doesn't strike me as meek and submissive wife. She wants to get her way and she probably has her strategies to make Gil decide in her favor so that on the outside it appears that he is her headship. 

I have always thought Kelly knows how to work Gil.  I don't know if it was always this way, but the Kelly we see today has learned to get what she wants while letting Gil think he's in charge.    

15 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

Well part of it is that I really do think Kelly makes sure the men her daughters marry absolutely ADORE them. So although they are all spouting the submission sh*t, she knows that these men have put her daughters on a pedestal. They are not going to be trampled in the relationship.

Kelly is making sure her daughters get the same deal she has.    Have a husband who worships the ground they walk on so they matter in the relationship but they can also get what they want in the relationship.   All under the cover of "submission" which is more lip service than reality.    However each relationship may vary and it will interesting to see how all of these hold up in the future.     For example, we have discussed how Erin can get Chad to do things, however I don't get the feeling of the same dynamic between Brandon and Michael.  

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1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

For example, we have discussed how Erin can get Chad to do things, however I don't get the feeling of the same dynamic between Brandon and Michael.  

Disagree. Brandon seems to be very thoughtful and considerate to Michael, they're moving to TN because of her schooling... Just because he isn't handyman Chad, doesn't mean he doesn't adore Michael, he seems to love her very much just not in a super vocal way like the other husbands.

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41 minutes ago, HermioneSparrow said:

Disagree. Brandon seems to be very thoughtful and considerate to Michael, they're moving to TN because of her schooling... Just because he isn't handyman Chad, doesn't mean he doesn't adore Michael, he seems to love her very much just not in a super vocal way like the other husbands.

I don’t want to speak for @nokidsmom, but I took it to mean that Michael isn’t as manipulative as Erin, which I would agree with. 

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17 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I don’t want to speak for @nokidsmom, but I took it to mean that Michael isn’t as manipulative as Erin, which I would agree with. 

Agreed!

 

I actually was kind of uncomfortable during one episode with the way it seemed Erin was just "bossing" chad around.I know for many its refreshing to see a woman who isn't being walked all over, but I personally find the whole "wife runs the show and husband does whatever she says" just as unfortunate as the "controlling husband" (only difference being that a controlling wife would be far less likely to carry the fear of violence the way we often have towards controlling men.) 

 

It was just off putting the way Erin thought her control over Chad's life was cute, but she was signing him up for projects without any sort of idea on whether or not he was interested in doing them. 

It was also similar that one time they had dinner with Bobby and Tori and she made the comment of "oh men love to grill! just get the ingredients ready before he gets home everynight and he can grill! they love that"

Chads awkward laugh just screamed "I would love to not have to do that when I get home from work, but you leave me no other choice!" 

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@HermioneSparrow yes, as both @QuiverFullofBooks and @Belugaloo mentioned, what I meant was that Michael isn't seeming as manipulative as Erin is, in fact think she's not manipulative of Brandon at all.     I agree with you that Brandon is very considerate of Michael and I give him kudos for his supporting her continuing education and training.   Those two honestly seem to function as a team rather than one pushing the other to do something.  My apologies for not being more clear about that.  

44 minutes ago, Belugaloo said:

It was just off putting the way Erin thought her control over Chad's life was cute, but she was signing him up for projects without any sort of idea on whether or not he was interested in doing them. 

I find it off putting too.   I have wondered for some time how Chad gets time to do all the things Erin says he does and was hoping all of it was stuff he wanted to do, maybe he's just very driven.   Now we know she volunteers him and that's not a good thing.   

Chad clearly has some good skills and that's great.   However, just like any ability / talent / skill those belong to that person and it should be up to them to decide to devote the time and effort, it should not be "volunteered" by anyone, including a spouse.  It's just basic respect IMHO.    Mr. No has some very specific skills that he's very picky about what he does and for whom.   Some people have tried to get me to "volunteer" him and I never do it.  It shows respect for his time and ability.   

So when I see Erin doing this, and thinking it's "cute" on top of it, it makes me shudder a bit.  It's not cute, it's shows no respect for her husband's time and work and in addition, she's volunteering him to do stuff for her parents and siblings when his priority is his own family, not them.    

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2 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

@HermioneSparrow yes, as both @QuiverFullofBooks and @Belugaloo mentioned, what I meant was that Michael isn't seeming as manipulative as Erin is, in fact think she's not manipulative of Brandon at all.     I agree with you that Brandon is very considerate of Michael and I give him kudos for his supporting her continuing education and training.   Those two honestly seem to function as a team rather than one pushing the other to do something.  My apologies for not being more clear about that. 

Oh and I didn't understand it that way but yup, you're absolutely right!

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Remember when Brandon did that drawing for Kelly’s birthday?  I wonder whose idea that was?  Maybe Erin volunteered him for that job too.  I think she was the one that narrated the video.

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There is not a submissive bone in Kelly's body. Actually, many southern families are quite matriarchal in nature.

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Is moving across the state really an event of divine importance? Can't you just move because you're lonely and your mom needs help? It really grinds on my nerves how fundies think God is invested in every mundane decision they make. 

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What does their Instagram post mean? Are they just moving back to where Tori’s family lives?

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4 minutes ago, picklepizzas said:

What does their Instagram post mean? Are they just moving back to where Tori’s family lives?

right? all that words and they didnt say why they had to leave Hendersonville before even the school year ended nor why are they moving to east Tenesse.

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Oh my word we moved ten times before we settled into the house we've now been in for 16 years. I think it's pretty normal for young couples to move where the work is, where their education is, where they can afford, etc. You'd think these couples lived 24 hours away by plane. 

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3 hours ago, llucie said:

right? all that words and they didnt say why they had to leave Hendersonville before even the school year ended nor why are they moving to east Tenesse.

Because it makes them more like Christ, apparently? He moved around a lot and they're following in his footsteps?

In that case the 2 dozen places I've lived in have made me the spitting image of our Lord and Savior. 

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12 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

Is moving across the state really an event of divine importance? Can't you just move because you're lonely and your mom needs help? It really grinds on my nerves how fundies think God is invested in every mundane decision they make. 

can't find the quote right now but it goes along the way of

"I'm suspicious of people speaking about god's will, because it usually goes right along with what they want."

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I feel like life would be so much easier if I didn’t have to explain any decisions. “Mstee why are you moving?” God is leading me away from where I live now. “Mstee why did you eat all the cookies?” I prayed about it and god wanted me to. My mom is the type to pester with questions- Id love to try this out on her ?

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I find it strange they don’t mention why they are moving other than to see what God has in store for them.  No job? Hope they aren’t moving into the camper!

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