Josh Harris Announced "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Was Discontinued

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Conveniently omitting that so many  lives were destroyed by your crazy patriarchal beliefs, and not just IKDG. 

And this all happened while he was the lead pastor at that church, a fact that makes this FB post all the more disgusting.

[CyborgKin]

I've seen half of it so far, and it's very much about Josh Harris and the impact of all this on him personally (or, specifically those details that make him look good, and 'appropriately humbled').

Edited December 3, 2018 by CyborgKin
added words

[Pecansforeveryone]

I can show Josh mercy on the initial publication of IKDG. He was only 21 and no doubt was under intense pressure to "perform" and become a Christian celebrity. I have no specific proof, only a strong hunch that Greg and Sono Harris groomed their sons for the Christian spotlight. However, once Josh became a minister in his own right with accomponying wealth and power from his status as author, then comes accountability. Lots and lots of accountability. He has been weighed and measured and found wanting. (That's in the bible, Josh. Ten dollars to you if you know the reference.)

[Jezzable]

NPR has released a new article on Josh Harris, his new documentary, and summarizes some of the problems with the courtship instead of dating, and the purity culture:

"Lyz Lenz, a writer based in Iowa, said Harris took the underlying message of the evangelical purity movement and "made it cool.".

"He was like this superhero on the holiness circuit, right? This young guy who embodied all these tenets of very conservative faith," Lenz said.

Lenz, who is not featured in the documentary, has written about the negative effects she feels Harris and other purity culture leaders had on her life. She's now 35 and just got divorced. She said the messages in Harris' book and others like it formed the foundation for some of the problems in her marriage."

 

[refugee]

Would this be a new thread or would it be okay to tag along on a Harris thread?

Got an email this morning that on of the Harrises is putting on a "Do Hard Things University" for ages 12 to 24. Self-paced online course for teens. Typical webpage sales job (ETA: I don't know exactly what to call it in terms of style or graphic design, but I have stopped reading emails from a certain "healthy lifestyle" company because I was so disgusted by their high pressure sales when I bought something once, not saying the Harrises do this as I don't know, but it's the same flashy style), full of pictures and bright colors and text written to encourage you to push the "Buy Now" button, and you have to scroll through it all to get to the price. Only $197, or pay what you can. Plus free bonus: if you sign up now, your kid has access to a closed online community for a year (normally $144 but at the moment offered as a free bonus for early sign-up).

Link to entry page

Edited December 20, 2018 by refugee
added a thought

[formergothardite]

Do Hard Things University - totally sounds like a scam!

[dripcurl]

I am proud to say that I was one of the rebellious homeschoolers who refused to read that ridiculous book.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

Link to entry page

This is Brett "Rebolution twin" Harris.  He's been running online writer's workshops for a while now.  From an RV.  In the middle of nowhere.  In - name any state with a desert.

It's hard to know how else Brett can make a living.  Alex (the successful attorney twin) touts Brett as a saint because his mission and ministry is to look after his chronically ill wife.  I don't know what to make of Ana's chronic illness.  Lyme, which sounded plausible but she says it wasn't Lyme now?  Mold?  True chemical intolerance?  Partly or all in her head?

I haven't checked her blog properly for updates but judge for yourselves:  http://anaharriswrites.com/

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Palimpsest

[mirele]

Elizabeth Esther posted a thread about her participation in the documentary and she's disavowing it.

I'm not going to post the whole thing in here but she's unhappy about how she was edited, that everything she had to say on LGBT was edited out (including her confrontation of Harris) and she has no trust in him.

I have worked on/contributed to documentaries before and while I understand her wish to pass off on the footage used, it would have been difficult. Directors are SUCH divas. And money is usually very tight. Plus, when you have a guy who has not come to grips with the massive damage he caused, this had every possibilities of turning into a cluster. I'm not faulting her for participating but they got her to sign a release...*sigh*.

[erunerune]

I was kind of surprised to see EE in it, glad she is speaking up with her take on the final product.

[Palimpsest]

Poor Elizabeth Esther.  She's really upset.  Not only did they cut out the bit where Josh Harris refused to affirm LBGTQ people - in other words dissed them - she says this:

Quote

The entire angle of the documentary seems to be: “I had good intentions. I need you to know how good my intentions were!” As if that heals the wounds. As if all we really needed in order to heal from purity culture was to *understand* HIM better. Honestly, I’m really upset.

Yes.  That was what we feared.  It was all about HIM.

[formergothardite]

53 minutes ago, mirele said:

Directors are SUCH divas. And money is usually very tight. Plus, when you have a guy who has not come to grips with the massive damage he caused, this had every possibilities of turning into a cluster.

Josh was never going to allow any sort of a footage that made him look bad to be used. This was always going to be a documentary all about poor little Josh who was misunderstood and wishes people would just stop bringing up the no longer popular books that made him famous. When the documentary was first announced we discussed that there was no way this was going to be a true documentary about the harm caused by the culture Josh thrives in. 

I feel sorry for the people Josh took advantage of in creating this documentary all about himself. It just shows how little he has actually changed. I'm sure that in all the video chats he had there was a lot more harsh things said that were edited out to keep Josh from looking so bad. This documentary is just Josh being who he is, which is a person who will exploit vulnerable people to get himself attention. I'm sure a lot of the people who agreed to be on the documentary thought it was going to be a true presentation of the harm Josh did instead of this watered down thing that glorified Josh. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by formergothardite

[erunerune]

People donated money for this  "documentary"  to be made.

When I remember this detail my snark-brain lights up all over, but then the more circumspect part of me just takes a moment of silence. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by erunerune

[CyborgKin]

Not only is the 'documentary' all about Josh and his journey and his realisations and his pain etc etc (I mean, the title is I survived IKDG for crying out loud) but his 'conclusions' (and much of what he says throughout the 'documentary') is vague, sloppy, wishy washy, and basically open to so much interpretation that there's no real way to tell whether he's saying "it's okay to meet people for coffee alone before marriage" or "hookup culture is fine too".  It seemed like a lot of the segments he included just exist to confuse the issue, so as many people as possible can come out of the film thinking "Josh is a genuine, honest, open minded person who now knows better than he did before and I should buy his next book on this subject..."

Ugh.

(Also thanks to this, I ended up in an argument over whether or not chewing gum and pulling petals off flowers is a good metaphor for sexual purity.  Double ugh.)

[stylites]

On 12/21/2018 at 6:26 AM, CyborgKin said:

"Josh is a genuine, honest, open minded person who now knows better than he did before and I should buy his next book on this subject..."

That's pretty much the emphasis of the TEDx talk no? "Strong enough to be wrong" ?

[Palimpsest]

40 minutes ago, stylites said:

That's pretty much the emphasis of the TEDx talk no? "Strong enough to be wrong" ?

Yep.  That is about it.  Josh Harris is a mensch. NOT!

Josh Harris is a poseur, a narcissist, and a self-promoter with no real regrets for anything he has ever done.  He was just misunderstood.  He was not responsible for anything.

Can we all projectile vomit in unison and get it over with.  Fast.

All together now:  

 

 

[Palimpsest]

Just dropping these here.  Libby Anne's always valuable input.  Her take on Elizabeth Esther's Twitter reaction:

 https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2018/12/blogger-elizabeth-esther-regrets-her-participation-in-josh-harris-documentary.html

and her review of the documentary: 

 https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2018/12/explaining-in-the-guise-of-listening-a-review-of-josh-harris-new-documentary.html

Yes, it's all about HIM!

Her conclusion: 

Quote

Harris has put himself back on the podium he ostensibly vacated when leaving his pastorate to go to seminary. He’s preaching to those who read his book, offering them his new wisdom, sharing himself as a person—and, in the end, being explainy in the guise of listening. Somehow, despite wanting answers, I’m no more clear now on what Harris believes (and what he does not believe) than I was before I watched his documentary.

Quite.  But he got himself back on the podium, which was almost certainly his goal all along.

[Iamhispurity]

On 12/20/2018 at 6:58 PM, Palimpsest said:

This is Brett "Rebolution twin" Harris.  He's been running online writer's workshops for a while now.  From an RV.  In the middle of nowhere.  In - name any state with a desert.

It's hard to know how else Brett can make a living.  Alex (the successful attorney twin) touts Brett as a saint because his mission and ministry is to look after his chronically ill wife.  I don't know what to make of Ana's chronic illness.  Lyme, which sounded plausible but she says it wasn't Lyme now?  Mold?  True chemical intolerance?  Partly or all in her head?

I haven't checked her blog properly for updates but judge for yourselves:  http://anaharriswrites.com/

 

The thing is that both diseases (chronic lyme and toxic mold) are seen as diagnoses that are probably not real by a huge chunk of the medical world, especially chronic lyme has not been proven to be a fact. That doesn’t mean that the symptoms aren’t real or that the cause has to be psychological. Just that there probably is another reason for the symptoms people with those diagnoses are experiencing. So there is the question what the root of her issues is.

I find one post especially sad, where she describes how she had symptoms that point to multiple mental health issues from a very young age. If she hadn’t been raised fundie maybe she would have gotten help then. She ends that post by proposing that mental health issues could be solved in a lot of cases by searching for the root of them. Not once mentioning therapy.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Quite.  But he got himself back on the podium, which was almost certainly his goal all along.

Exactly. He had fallen out of favor with conservative evangelicals because of his no dating books since that trend is over. With this he can get back in their good graces by becoming the trendy guy who rides skateboards and  who "admits he was wrong". 

From the comment section:

Quote

From the description for the documentary on JH's website:

"Through the connective platform of social media, Harris has been dealt a battering of online criticism from disenchanted Christians in recent years. Some have lashed out at Harris directly for I Kissed Dating Goodbye, and a few have set up websites dedicated to his victims. Many online have called for Harris to apologize for what they believe was hurtful teaching....Harris has felt pressure from all sides to do or say something."

It's pretty clear that Elizabeth Ester's and Libby Anne's assessments are correct -- this documentary is about HIM and HIS experiences and how this has been difficult for HIM. He refuses to even acknowledged that the criticism against him is objective, instead, basically writing it off as the opinion of some people who didn't have a good grip on reality. He's not even speaking out because he actually has regret; he's just trying to get people off his back. How hard is it to say, "I was a stupid, indoctrinated kid, and I was wrong. I'm sorry to the people I've hurt." Pretty sure that's all we're wanting to hear. Doesn't take a full-length documentary to get that out.

Oh, and also, he won't let you watch unless you give him you email so he can contact you with "occasional updates and marketing messages" about his new gig. Some apology. I'm disgusted.

As for the bolded. Josh was never going to say that because it is clear he doesn't believe he was really wrong or indoctrinated. He still believes the shit that put him on the path to writing IKDG. He had to acknowledge his past teachings because he isn't content to fade into obscurity. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

But he got himself back on the podium, which was almost certainly his goal all along.

This X a million.

It's never been anything other than all about Josh. 

For proof, see that appallingly callous FB post about his former pastorate at CLC, the SGM church that imploded due to a sex abuse scandal that happened ON HIS WATCH.

 

[Petronella]

16 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

For proof, see that appallingly callous FB post about his former pastorate at CLC, the SGM church that imploded due to a sex abuse scandal that happened ON HIS WATCH.

 

Ugh: "So many sides. So many stories. So many disappointments. So many chances for us all to point fingers and blame. I’ve come to learn there is no value in that."

RAGE

[louisa05]

This is a side note and likely to be very controversial. 

I can't stand Libby Anne. She is so pretentious. And her story is inconsistent. Let's just start with "my super fundamentalist homeschooling gender role observing parents sent me to a public university". 

Sure, Jan. 

[stylites]

6 hours ago, Petronella said:

Ugh: "So many sides. So many stories. So many disappointments. So many chances for us all to point fingers and blame. I’ve come to learn there is no value in that."

RAGE

I see he did take care to brand himself appropriately in the accompanying photo.

I think part of 'our' problem lies in not seeing these movements for what they were - the religious equivalent of secular trends - and in doing so assuming a level of spiritual maturity that was never going to be there.

In the same way that the older megachurches were the way that the budding religious empire-builder could get his mid-century CEO on; All those 'young, restless, reformed' style church plants were essentially how those who were interested in religion and had some theological training could get some startup action - complete with beanbags, casual dress, interesting workspaces and Apple habits on the backs of their congregation or some other church planting organisation, with places like CLC serving as the 'Google' equivalents for the select few.  This is betrayed by many of the terms and language used to promote such things ('social entrepreneur' anyone ?) as well as the associated benefits garnered by many of the staff - with book deals and TED-a-like conferences for the successful.

So yeah, I guess Josh has just gone onto his next grift, after all what's the point of an apology if you can't spin a book deal and a ministry out of it ?

Edited January 2, 2019 by stylites

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

This is a side note and likely to be very controversial. 

I can't stand Libby Anne. She is so pretentious. And her story is inconsistent. Let's just start with "my super fundamentalist homeschooling gender role observing parents sent me to a public university". 

Sure, Jan. 

Is this a case of you being controversial and not actually caring about reality or do you truly not understand that fundamentalist, homeschooling gender role observing parents can also be okay with public education when it comes to college? Before we get into it are you going to actually have a discussion or go whine in another thread when people question you? I don't mind discussing this but there is no point if you are just trolling or planning on whining in another thread instead of having a discussion. 

I don't know a ton about Libby Anne, but I do know that even Gothard parents sent their kids to public universities and college. My parents were one in that group. 

2 hours ago, stylites said:

I see he did take care to brand himself appropriately in the accompanying photo.

Yes. He is very much staying on brand. Isn't he in some sort of theological school? I wonder if he is planning on starting a new trendy church complete with a pulpit background made from wooden pallets. I can see him going that route. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

My fundie lite parents sent us to public school k12 and then on to public university. Most of the fundies I knew were fine with married couples using birth control and women working outside the home. I didn't encounter SAHD and Quiverful until I came to Free Jinger.  I still feel I was raised fundie with the accompanying scars and baggage.