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Josh Harris Announced "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Was Discontinued


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@Palimpsest My mother's high school friend who later became a fundamentalist had memorials for her husband on his death going to a group of American fundie missionaries to the UK. She had some guy from London that the missionaries converted long ago fly in to sing at the funeral. I took my mom to it. It was all horrifying. We were preached at for two and half hours and the London guy couldn't carry a tune to save his life and sang six songs. There was a long portion about the great need for missions in the UK and how now that they are well established there, they are looking to expand into all of Ireland where "no one has heard of Jesus".

When my father died, this same woman enclosed a note in the sympathy card she sent my mother that she was not sending a check for a memorial because the money was going to "something Catholic" (specifically, the tiny Catholic grade school in Appalachia that my father had attended--it does good work to try to pull kids out of poverty and most families don't pay tuition) and she couldn't support that. 

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Josh posted on his Instagram today that he is not a Christian in any sense in which he formerly understood being a Christian and he apologizes to the LGBT+ community for the ways in which he excluded them from full participation in the church. 

He is still in the beginning of the process of deconstructing his religious faith so maybe it is too early for me to rejoice, but I admit that I do anyway!  His confession of doubt and the apology for ALL his harmful teachings could be the Jenga piece that needed to be pulled so that many could follow in his footsteps. I know it's extremely painful and it's sad that he and Shannon couldn't do this together but I'm very excited about the healing possibilities that this opens up individually and collectively. 

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29 minutes ago, Alcyone said:

Josh posted on his Instagram today that he is not a Christian in any sense in which he formerly understood being a Christian and he apologizes to the LGBT+ community for the ways in which he excluded them from full participation in the church. 

He is still in the beginning of the process of deconstructing his religious faith so maybe it is too early for me to rejoice, but I admit that I do anyway!  His confession of doubt and the apology for ALL his harmful teachings could be the Jenga piece that needed to be pulled so that many could follow in his footsteps. I know it's extremely painful and it's sad that he and Shannon couldn't do this together but I'm very excited about the healing possibilities that this opens up individually and collectively. 

I have read the post now and it is quite incredible - and at the same time, not at all. Wow.

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I wonder how the rest of his family is taking this -- particularly, his father and brothers.

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On 7/24/2019 at 3:31 PM, Palimpsest said:

Eh.  I've been known to scout used book stores and suchlike  to buy to destroy some of this stuff so it doesn't hurt others.  I never have to pay more than a few cents and destroying them gives me pleasure.  I have shredded quite a few copies of TTUAC personally.

However, I do have a small archive in the cellar.  I keep a single copy of the worst stuff just in case I ever need to refer to it. 

Actually, @MamaJunebug was the inspiration for this archive.  She sent me some VF crap because I have room to store it at the moment.  I should probably just scan and dispose of all the dead tree copies though.  When I have time.

If anyone has any Wisdom Booklets lying around my collection of those is not yet complete ...  

I have shredded a few things I find offensive and then it goes to the recycle bin.  I have a hard time doing it sometimes, because I am against censorship. But then as someone here mentioned, forgive me but I can't remember who - I should view it as protective someone who really would be harmed by it.  Since I mainly find stuff by the Pearls, I look at it like that now.  I also generally find them at thrift stores, so the store gets a little $ out of the deal but nothing goes to the Pearls (or to Gwen, on the rare occasion I have found her garbage).

Edited by Briefly
added the last sentence.
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It’s astonishing, really, how Absolutely Perfect and Wonderful all these god-fearing traditional relationships are right up until they publicly and drastically fall apart.
IKDG Josh Harris - divorcing, not really identifying as Christian at all.
“Boundless” anti-birth control poster children Sam and Bethany Torode - divorced after four kids in six years, neither particularly Christian at this point. Both remarried, have publicly renounced their previous counsel.
“Return of the Daughters” Botkin sisters - spinsters over 35 (or just over 30?) with no prospects of career or marriage, sliding slowly off the radar as the absurdity of their “advice” becomes apparent to even them.
VIsion Forum hyper-patriarchy defend-your-daughters golden couple Doug and Beall Phillips - at the very least separated, since Doug galavants around Europe with a burlesque troupe while Beall works as an apparent home health aide while raising the kids still at home.
Secondary Vision Forum poster couple Peter and Kelly BRADRICK, divorced after six kids and Kelly shuffled off into a second marriage never to be heard from again.

Who am I missing? I know there’s others whose God-ordained love stories blew up like an IED.

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There is always the option to turn any book into a craft project. Book origami or hollowed out hiding spot etc. Though you would want to cover up/colour over any visible offensive writing 

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@bea - that reminded me of being in my early 20’s and seeing parents of young children teaching the parenting classes. At almost 40 I’ve decided the reason the older parents didn’t teach the classes is by then they’ve figured out they’re wise enough to not act like parenting experts!

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16 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

There is always the option to turn any book into a craft project. Book origami or hollowed out hiding spot etc. Though you would want to cover up/colour over any visible offensive writing 

Why, yes there is a way: Behold book sculptures! :) http://www.scottishbooktrust.com/book-sculptures-the-full-set

 

Edited by samurai_sarah
Grammar
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John Piper's son Barnabas is now divorced and has reported that it caused real strain in his relationship with his father. Funnily enough when I goggled which Piper son it was one of the links was a freejinger link from two years ago, fantastic. It also referenced the other fundy I was thinking of Tullian Tchividjian who is Billy Graham's grandson. Three of Billy Graham's own children are divorced. 

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Different family, but IMO it’s only a matter of time before there’s at least one Duggar divorce and it won’t surprise me if several of them divorce. These families just put themselves on such high pedestals that they set themselves up to come crashing down. That Anna & whatshisface didn’t divorce shows the incredible amount of brainwashing & gaslighting Anna experiences then it does with her husband somehow becoming some upstanding citizen following his time in Jesus jail.  

Ok, rant over. I’m getting way too worked up over here.  

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1 hour ago, bea said:

It’s astonishing, really, how Absolutely Perfect and Wonderful all these god-fearing traditional relationships are right up until they publicly and drastically fall apart.
IKDG Josh Harris - divorcing, not really identifying as Christian at all.
“Boundless” anti-birth control poster children Sam and Bethany Torode - divorced after four kids in six years, neither particularly Christian at this point. Both remarried, have publicly renounced their previous counsel.
“Return of the Daughters” Botkin sisters - spinsters over 35 (or just over 30?) with no prospects of career or marriage, sliding slowly off the radar as the absurdity of their “advice” becomes apparent to even them.
VIsion Forum hyper-patriarchy defend-your-daughters golden couple Doug and Beall Phillips - at the very least separated, since Doug galavants around Europe with a burlesque troupe while Beall works as an apparent home health aide while raising the kids still at home.
Secondary Vision Forum poster couple Peter and Kelly BRADRICK, divorced after six kids and Kelly shuffled off into a second marriage never to be heard from again.

Who am I missing? I know there’s others whose God-ordained love stories blew up like an IED.

Sarah Mally. She writes a book about waiting for Prince Charming and is still waiting. While getting darn close to 40. Plus her two siblings are single as well. 

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Gabriel Pearl, son of monster Micheal Pearl is divorced. Prosperity gospel "seed of faith" preacher Oral Roberts son and heir Richard Roberts is divorced and long since re-married. Trump's "spiritual" advisor Paula White has been thru two divorces and is now married to her 3rd husband. 

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The silly people at Pulpit and Pen are talking right now about how Josh Harris has tweeted that he's no longer a Christian.   They're having their usual fun saying he was probably never Christian to start with, etc.

Has this been mentioned already?

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18 minutes ago, Caroline said:

The silly people at Pulpit and Pen are talking right now about how Josh Harris has tweeted that he's no longer a Christian.   They're having their usual fun saying he was probably never Christian to start with, etc.

Has this been mentioned already?

No! 

Those guys can always be relied upon to be poisonous. I do believe that in some denominations they would believe that this is proof he was never really saved, though. 

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Well, Joshua.  That was a pretty good apology.  Finally! 

Now can we talk about your measurements for defining Christian? "By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian."

SSB Julie Anne's take on it is compassionate, but she is a very compassionate person.   

For everyone's convenience:  

The (public) Instagram post.

Quote

My heart is full of gratitude. I wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce. They are expressions of love though they are saddened or even strongly disapprove of the decision.

I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.)

The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.

Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me.

To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”

Julie Anne's immediate response [excerpt]:

Quote

My Thoughts

I have nothing but heart-felt support for Josh. Yes, I know some of you are upset because of how the SGM sex abuse scandal was handled and you believe Josh did not tell the truth. Yes, I know some of you don’t believe that he was sincere enough in his apology about his book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. Also, some of you feel like he didn’t represent you well in the documentary. I get it. I really do. And your concerns are valid and appropriate. I don’t want to dismiss your reality at all. It’s important to acknowledge the truth – from all sides.

 

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2019/07/26/my-thoughts-on-josh-harris-as-a-fallen-christian/comment-page-1/

 

 

Edited by Palimpsest
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1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

That was a pretty good apology.  Finally! 

Yes. 

Quote

"I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful."

Josh's statement (quoted above) is not surprising. He seems to have had a true epiphany. Until the past few years, I doubt he's ever been allowed, or allowed himself, to question his Christian faith. Certainly, he didn't, or couldn't, while under his father's roof and I doubt that the SGM years left any room for self-examination and reflection. 

Now, given his epiphany, he next needs to come to terms appropriately with the SGM debacle and the role(s) he may have played in causing harm to so many in that community. 

 

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9 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

...

Now, given his epiphany, he next needs to come to terms appropriately with the SGM debacle and the role(s) he may have played in causing harm to so many in that community. 

 

Yes. This 1000 times. 

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4 hours ago, Briefly said:

I have shredded a few things I find offensive and then it goes to the recycle bin.  I have a hard time doing it sometimes, because I am against censorship. But then as someone here mentioned, forgive me but I can't remember who - I should view it as protective someone who really would be harmed by it.  ...s

Had friends whose lives had been badly affected by Mormonism. Rather than swipe the Books Of Mormon they found in hotel rooms, they wrote the names of websites for people leaving the LDS on the inside covers of the Books, with a polite note advising any seekers to get both sides of the story before further investigating Mormonism. 

I thought that was kind of elegant. 

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4 hours ago, seraaa said:

No! 

Those guys can always be relied upon to be poisonous. I do believe that in some denominations they would believe that this is proof he was never really saved, though. 

That’s the gist of an awful lot of Facebook comments on various posts.

Check out Tim Bayly’s take on the “separation” announcement on Facebook, and the conversation in the comments.

One telling Bayly gem is a suggestion that a husband whose wife is the one who initiates leaving should ask the church elders to discipline the wife.

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1 hour ago, refugee said:

One telling Bayly gem is a suggestion that a husband whose wife is the one who initiates leaving should ask the church elders to discipline the wife.

I became fundie(ish) during the time that this book was all the rage (even had a foreword by Rebecca St. James who was on our radio station!!!). I had never heard of courtship or anything but I also grew up as a heathen (Irish and Italian-extended family were ebil Catholics).  It's been over 20 years but I'm still pissed that I allowed this guy to completely change who I was. I was unpopular in high school and literally got with the first guy who ever paid attention to me. I was horny AF but all he wanted to do was talk about Jesus.

And I let him. Josh's book was huge at the time and ex and I spent constructive time together, both building toward a permanent relationship. We courted, not dated cuz Jesus, yo! We both lived at home and we had some unsupervised time but I just wanted to do stuff other than church. We eventually got married when I was 22-----virgins-------and it sucked. The second day of our marriage I literally regretted what I had done. 

I eventually found the strength to divorce him**** and I've been trying to recover from everything since then. The worst part is that I've always been a super strong and outspoken person and I don't know why he affected me to the point he did. He beat me down, almost to the point of no return. I never ever ever thought someone could take over my thinking like that. 

Anyway, I should probably go to therapy and talk about this but instead I'm doing it here because I know a lot of you can probably relate. I'm also writing a novel that encompasses a lot of this in much more detail. I'll share it on Fj when it's done. It's been therapeutic for me, in a way, but also troubling. I hope that maybe someone else can get some closure from it.

****(In our marriage counseling the pastor blamed all of the problems on my ex for not being a good enough leader. I kind of took pride in that in a way because I wouldn't let myself be controlled, but also I'm very rebellious). 

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@PumaLover, yes, definitely be proud of being your own person!  Well done to you for having the strength to get out of it all.  Hope you're keeping doing ok at the moment.

Edited by Spinosaurus
unwarranted scotticism
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I feel like breathing easier now that all of his crap has collapsed. Not that it’ll change things too much for fundie/fundie-lite GYM, but it’s a step. I can’t tell you how much those beliefs screwed with me as a teen and young adult. I had serious doubts at the Silver Ring Thing (stupid concert/preaching event where we all took some sort of vow and got purity rings) I was forced to go to, but those doubts got washed away by the kool aid. To be perfectly honest, it screwed with me dating my husband in my late 20s, and it’s still screwing with my marriage. It’s such a process to undo, and I really hope this means less kids getting exposed to those beliefs. 

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10 minutes ago, Quiver Full of Kittens said:

Not that it’ll change things too much for fundie/fundie-lite GYM

Let me guess, he's no

 

kilt.jpg

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This is what fundies will conclude:

Becoming a non-believer causes divorce. And staying a believer results in staying together forever.

On the surface, this could look like the truth. But really if you look deeper, you will see that those people staying together may be incredibly unhappy for many years. And it could cause a lot of trauma to their children. But that doesn’t really matter because the most important thing is staying together no matter what. 

People who stop believing the fundie crap are probably more likely to divorce. But not because fundie beliefs are correct and best for a marriage. If you stop believing the divorce is the worst thing you could ever do then of course you are more likely to get a divorce when your marriage collapses. 

But like I said, the fundies will use this as a lesson to others. If you stop believing, you will divorce. So keep doing everything we say. 

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  • Coconut Flan changed the title to Josh Harris Announced "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Was Discontinued

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