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seraaa

Josh Harris announces "I kissed dating goodbye" is to be discontinued

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hoipolloi
3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

If Josh starts standing up against Trump and speaking up for minorities then the fundies will turn against him.

And I would actually have respect for him, especially if he keeps it up. 

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Anonymousguest
3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I have never heard of this! Not doubting it at all, but I never heard that it wasn't theologically accurate. 

If Josh starts standing up against Trump and speaking up for minorities then the fundies will turn against him. It is a good sign that he is really thinking about things if he is willing to condemn Trump's actions. 

His younger brother has been very out spoken against Trump since the primaries and had a long heated discussion on his FB page when he said he was voting for Hillary. People were saying they were praying for him because he was so decieved. I believe he campaigned for Kasich earlier on.

The one person who had been completely silent in all of this stuff with Josh is his dad. Not a single peep out of Gregg. 

 

 

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JermajestyDuggar
2 hours ago, Firebird said:

@JermajestyDuggar

There are already plenty of fundie dating books. Try anything by Leslie Ludy. *warning it may contain high amounts of schlock and judgemental attitudes.

Omg the titles alone are making me roll my eyes. They would rollback into my head completely if I read one of those books!

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Pecansforeveryone

If you really want to vomit, and c'mon you know you do, read Passion and Purity by Elizabeth Elliott. Its filled with toxic patriarchhal crap of the nth degree. Elizabeth Elliott was all about women knowing their place while she did public speaking engagements and wrote books. Her husband, Jim Elliott and 4 other men were speared to death in Central America while attempting to "minister" to a hostile tribe. They became martyrs and Eliabeth became the "godmother" of modern Evangelical Christianity. 

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hoipolloi
2 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Elizabeth Elliott was all about women knowing their place while she did public speaking engagements and wrote books.

Ah yes, Saint Elizabeth: She believed so strongly in a woman's subordinate place that she kept using Jim's surname even though she remarried, TWICE. She was also a big promoter of child training baby beating.

A truly awful person.

 

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seraaa
On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:59 PM, Anonymousguest said:

His younger brother has been very out spoken against Trump since the primaries and had a long heated discussion on his FB page when he said he was voting for Hillary. People were saying they were praying for him because he was so decieved. I believe he campaigned for Kasich earlier on.

The one person who had been completely silent in all of this stuff with Josh is his dad. Not a single peep out of Gregg. 

 

 

Which brother, do you know? I remember his (twin?) younger brothers had a ministry once upon a time

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hoipolloi
2 hours ago, seraaa said:

Which brother, do you know? I remember his (twin?) younger brothers had a ministry once upon a time

Guessing it's Alex, the twin who graduated from HLS and seems to be immersed in defending refugees while speaking out against the administration's evil practices & policies:

 

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formergothardite
6 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

read Passion and Purity by Elizabeth Elliott. Its filled with toxic patriarchhal crap of the nth degree.

I have a signed copy around here somewhere. That was the worst "romance" story. At the end I got the impression Jim didn't really want to marry her but felt obligated since she jumped through the insane hoops he had put up. And she was hardly some submissive stay at home woman. She was college educated, traveled extensively before marriage and then continued being very independent after Jim died. She hardly practiced much of what she preached. She was brought into to lecture IBLP teen girls on submission on dying to one's self. 

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JermajestyDuggar
1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

Guessing it's Alex, the twin who graduated from HLS and seems to be immersed in defending refugees while speaking out against the administration's evil practices & policies:

 

I read some of the comments below and of course there are assholes that have to bring up Obama. Fundies are so predictable. 

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Anonymousguest
7 hours ago, seraaa said:

Which brother, do you know? I remember his (twin?) younger brothers had a ministry once upon a time

I know all the brothers. But it was Isaac in this case. 

His sister in law penned an interesting article that got passed around in our circles as well. She usually blogs about food and natural health related stuff. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/june-web-only/sex-offenders-groom-churches-too.html

Edited by Anonymousguest

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CyborgKin
14 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

If you really want to vomit, and c'mon you know you do, read Passion and Purity by Elizabeth Elliott. Its filled with toxic patriarchhal crap of the nth degree. Elizabeth Elliott was all about women knowing their place while she did public speaking engagements and wrote books. Her husband, Jim Elliott and 4 other men were speared to death in Central America while attempting to "minister" to a hostile tribe. They became martyrs and Eliabeth became the "godmother" of modern Evangelical Christianity. 

The book Through the Gates of Splendor about that event was one of the literature study books for the ACE curriculum back in the day (and maybe still is?)

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seraaa
12 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Guessing it's Alex, the twin who graduated from HLS and seems to be immersed in defending refugees while speaking out against the administration's evil practices & policies:

 

Thank you!

7 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

I know all the brothers. But it was Isaac in this case. 

His sister in law penned an interesting article that got passed around in our circles as well. She usually blogs about food and natural health related stuff. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/june-web-only/sex-offenders-groom-churches-too.html

Thanks!

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Tired
Palimpsest
On 10/28/2018 at 9:36 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

 Joshua did not adopt a more flexible, open-minded tone in his books. He simply scrubbed their stories from future editions. People have expressing their concerns for 5-10 years now. Josh just didn't want to hear them. I don't hate the guy. I really don't. He just suffers from much of the same hubris that many fundiegelical leaders suffer from. 

Agreed.  It is not a case of hating him.  It is a case of pointing to that hubris and having a certain skepticism about his reinventing himself and his message.  I hope he is changing, but wonder how much.

It is worth noting that the poor, immature, innocent, misguided, 21 year-old young man who wrote IKDG has not spent the last 20 years in a vacuum.  Instead Joshua clawed his way up the ranks of Sovereign Grace ministries to pastor a mega-church (Covenant Life) and should also be held responsible for the mistakes he made there.  I suppose those mistakes were all not his fault either, including the blatant attempt to cover up sexual abuse with an internal "investigation."  Joshua jumped away from that, like a rat from a sinking ship, when he was involved in it up to his eyebrows.  He also disclosed that he was also a survivor of sexual abuse, IIRC.  

Joshua shoving stuff under the rug and claiming that he was just misguided without taking proper responsibility seems to be his modus operandi.  We will see.

10 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

I know all the brothers. But it was Isaac in this case. 

His sister in law penned an interesting article that got passed around in our circles as well. She usually blogs about food and natural health related stuff. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/june-web-only/sex-offenders-groom-churches-too.html

Interesting.  Is that Joel's wife?  I don't know much about the younger family members.  The problem I have with the article (otherwise good) is that it almost excuses the churches and makes them victims instead of collaborators. 

Kimi doesn't make crystal clear that the churches need to, above all, quit citing Matthew 18 and trying to handle sexual abuse cases internally.   That is not their job, they are not qualified to conduct proper investigations, and are obviously not outside secular law.

Of course they also need to educate themselves ASAP, support victims, have zero-tolerance policies for offenders (and get rid of them instead of covering for them), take responsibility for their past actions and so on.  However, they should also apologise properly for coddling criminals in the name of Jebus and enabling them to continue to abuse.  That goes for Johua Harris too.

As for Alex, I give him praise for his article, understandable given the family heritage, but I wonder how far the anti-Trump feeling goes. 

Alex is now a trial attorney in Denver after Harvard Law and clerking for SJC Anthony Kennedy.  I stumbled on this video from October 2017.   I'm not getting much of an impression that he is no longer extreme in his beliefs.

He tries to be self-deprecating and has a boatload of charm, the same gift of the gab as Joshua, and just as much hubris.  The real meat starts around the 8 minute mark.

 

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hoipolloi
4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

It is worth noting that the poor, immature, innocent, misguided, 21 year-old young man who wrote IKDG has not spent the last 20 years in a vacuum.  Instead Joshua clawed his way up the ranks of Sovereign Grace ministries to pastor a mega-church (Covenant Life) and should also be held responsible for the mistakes he made there.  I suppose those mistakes were all not his fault either, including the blatant attempt to cover up sexual abuse with an internal "investigation."  Joshua jumped away from that, like a rat from a sinking ship, when he was involved in it up to his eyebrows.

Exactly. This is why I am very skeptical about what only seems to be the newest incarnation of Josh Harris.

4 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

He tries to be self-deprecating and has a boatload of charm, the same gift of the gab as Joshua, and just as much hubris.

Alex & his twin Bret started Rebelution which was fundie shite for teens -- the website certainly still seems as fundie as it ever was.

They may have stopped running modesty surveys on how young women should dress, but a lot of the fuckwaddery is still there.

ETA: Watched part of the video -- couldn't stomach much of it. Alex mentions Rebelution & it's worth noting that he & Brett were treated (and probably acted) like rock stars when they were directly involved in it. 

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Meh
refugee
3 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Exactly. This is why I am very skeptical about what only seems to be the newest incarnation of Josh Harris.

Alex & his twin Bret started Rebelution which was fundie shite for teens -- the website certainly still seems as fundie as it ever was.

They may have stopped running modesty surveys on how young women should dress, but a lot of the fuckwaddery is still there.

ETA: Watched part of the video -- couldn't stomach much of it. Alex mentions Rebelution & it's worth noting that he & Brett were treated (and probably acted) like rock stars when they were directly involved in it. 

I am currently getting emails for the latest Harris “Teach your kids to do hard things” seminar, FWIW.

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QuiverFullofBooks
Meh
AliceInFundyland
5 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Yes, there is a thread in Quiver full of snark. Thanks for the new article. We should move it over.

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dripcurl
On 11/2/2018 at 11:53 AM, hoipolloi said:

They may have stopped running modesty surveys on how young women should dress, but a lot of the fuckwaddery is still there.

I remember when the Modesty Survey was up and running. Their current website says it officially closed the survey in 2007, but I remember they were doing a 2.0 version in 2009/10, the time of my short-lived fundie stint. I remember I attempted to submit my responses, mine were not allowed. Why? Because I checked FEMALE. ONLY MEN COULD RESPOND.

 

I can’t believe I was ok with all of that bullshit at one point in my life. Thank God I am out of it.

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Briefly
17 hours ago, dripcurl said:

I remember when the Modesty Survey was up and running. Their current website says it officially closed the survey in 2007, but I remember they were doing a 2.0 version in 2009/10, the time of my short-lived fundie stint. I remember I attempted to submit my responses, mine were not allowed. Why? Because I checked FEMALE. ONLY MEN COULD RESPOND.

 

I can’t believe I was ok with all of that bullshit at one point in my life. Thank God I am out of it.

I know exactly how you feel!  One of the first things I would do if time travel was actually possible or the T.A.R.D.I.S. landed in my yard (Dr. Who # 4 with the scarf, teeth & hair please!) is to go back a few years and slap myself right before I first suggested we try fundamentalism.

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Anonymousguest
7 hours ago, Briefly said:

I know exactly how you feel!  One of the first things I would do if time travel was actually possible or the T.A.R.D.I.S. landed in my yard (Dr. Who # 4 with the scarf, teeth & hair please!) is to go back a few years and slap myself right before I first suggested we try fundamentalism.

Did you actually make a decision to try fundamentalism? For us it was more like the frog in the water. We didn't even notice it at first. Then one day I was like "what the hell? How did we get here?"

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Briefly
5 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Did you actually make a decision to try fundamentalism? For us it was more like the frog in the water. We didn't even notice it at first. Then one day I was like "what the hell? How did we get here?"

Yes, although we weren't calling it that at the time.  Also, we didn't go a fundy church, I did some reading & studying then we did it on our own.  I don't think the end result would have been any different if we had gone to one, it was still a mistake all around and a few years where I was miserable and our daughter was even worse than I was.  It was a horrible experience and I am still dealing with the repercussions, mostly the guilt over the fact that I/we put our daughter through it.

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Computer glitched again and saved before I was ready!
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hoipolloi

Thanks, @seraaa.

As an FYI, you'll need to sign up via email. After your sign up is confirmed, you'll be emailed a link to the video.

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Meh
refugee

Not sure I want to give them an email address. Is anyone willing to give a recap?

thanks in advance 

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