Josh Harris Announced "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Was Discontinued

[Marmion]

15 minutes ago, WineGlass said:

Count me as one who does NOT like modern worship music! I can’t remember the name of the song, but the line “My lover’s kiss is sweet as wine” referring to Jesus (!?!) is just so inappropriate. These songs do have the I’m-in-lurve-with-Jesus vibe. Gross. I realise it probably comes from the Song of Solomon but that poetry is actually about sexual love!

The last church I attended felt the need to take a beautiful, traditional hymn like “How great thou art” and translate it into modern English. Just no!

I’m no longer at all religious but I still love the old hymns and will happily sing them to myself. But sex-with-the-lawd songs are just a complete turn off. For everyone, I should think!

I know what you mean . Although I am sure that I posted these in another thread here , for those who might not know what exactly I am referring to ,  here are a few prime examples .  

 

 , and for a possibly unintentionally sexually suggestive song , there's this gem .

  You're all welcome . 

[WineGlass]

I’m finding it difficult to get past the obvious. But I’m a reprobate. 

[WineGlass]

30 minutes ago, Marmion said:

I know what you mean . Although I am sure that I posted these in another thread here , for those who might not know what exactly I am referring to ,  here are a few prime examples .  

 

 , and for a possibly unintentionally sexually suggestive song , there's this gem .

  You're all welcome . 

Lawd. Yes they are having a joke. 

[Sobeknofret]

2 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

I think the church in a mall is the logical end of those of the Protestant reformers who preferred plain, whitewashed churches as a sign of their complete rejection of Catholic sacramentalism (this included a very diverse group, such as Calvinists, Anabaptists, Quakers, and low church Anglicans). Since Pentecostalists believe in the continuing fruits of the spirit, it would stand to reason that no physical place or object is inherently sacred or more so than any other place, as is the case with Catholic sacramentalism. The church is holy because of the congregation that has (hopefully) been sanctified by the fruits of the Holy Spirit, not due to anything special about the place itself. 

I'm a Quaker who believes that no particular place is holier than any other, nor any day holier than any other day. They should all be treated with reverence and joy. I would be happy attending meeting anywhere it was held, even on the side of the road. 

The only building I ever felt that unusual "this place is super sacred" vibe was at Notre Dame de Paris. So many years of prayer, love, joy, grief, and beauty seem to have seeped into its stone like water in a sponge. I honestly was awed by the sense of it being a living entity, and I have to confess that I felt moved enough to get up early and attend morning Mass there almost every day I was in Paris.

[WineGlass]

I love Britain’s ancient churches. They just ooze awe and sacredness. I could almost be convinced to pray in one!

Nah. 

[apple1]

2 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

And these days, another important source: The rock concert, complete with costumes, professional sound and lighting rigs, and fog/smoke machines FFS...

Exactly. And while I am old and admit it, my DAUGHTER says, "Church is not supposed to be a rock concert." (her exact words)

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

There is one praise song that has a line about "your fragrance is intoxicating when we go to our secret place". 

This was actually a Southern Baptist church but I've heard several people who go the the SB churches that pretend to be non denominational talk about growth groups. It seems to be a fairly recent trend. I don't remember hearing about it when I went to church. 

Southern Baptist congregations seem to be irresistible to what’s called the “new-Calvinist” and “YRR (Young, Restless and Reformed)” takeover artists. The Wartburg Watch has had several articles on the phenomenon. 

[Howl]

2 hours ago, WineGlass said:

The last church I attended felt the need to take a beautiful, traditional hymn like “How great thou art” and translate it into modern English. Just no!

Like this?  “How great thou art” = "You're so awesome!" 

For our fellow senior members of fj, do you remember in vacation Bible school and Sunday school where the teacher put the little figures on the felt board to illustrate Bible stories?  Not sure exactly how they stayed up. Does anyone else have a better memory of how this worked? Then, in vacation Bible school we had a little snack of milk and cookies and then laid down on mats and took a nap.  A sweet and innocent time. 

ETA: You can still buy these on ETSY and Amazon so I guess not everything is digital! 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Howl

[Antipatriarch]

4 minutes ago, Howl said:

For our fellow senior members of fj, do you remember in vacation Bible school and Sunday school where the teacher put the little figures on the felt board to illustrate Bible stories?  Not sure exactly how they stayed up. Does anyone else have a better memory of how this worked?

Flannelgraphs! Oh yeah, I'm old enough to remember those. They're kinda like post-it notes... the background is flannel, and the pieces have something on the back that lightly adheres to it.

[Howl]

Yes, that's it! Yes, very much fabric post-it notes of guys in tunics and a lot of camels, IIRC. 

 

1 hour ago, Marmion said:

and for a possibly unintentionally sexually suggestive song , there's this gem .

  You're all welcome . 

Oh my gosh, he actually uses the phrase 'Leap of Faith' in the lyrics.  All I can think of are the Leaping Beryllians in the movie Bedazzled (1967, Dudley Moore as a schmuck lose flipping burgers at Wimpy's and Raquel Welch as Lust).  Somewhat relevant since involves making a deal with the Devil.  

[smittykins]

9 hours ago, Caroline said:

I grew up Catholic but have given it up for many reasons.  I"ve always said the same thing.  If I ever felt the need to go back to church I'd go to an Episcopal church.  Same traditions, more acceptance.

Or, in the words of Robin Williams, “all of the ritual, half the guilt.”

[Cleopatra7]

2 hours ago, Sobeknofret said:

I'm a Quaker who believes that no particular place is holier than any other, nor any day holier than any other day. They should all be treated with reverence and joy. I would be happy attending meeting anywhere it was held, even on the side of the road. 

The only building I ever felt that unusual "this place is super sacred" vibe was at Notre Dame de Paris. So many years of prayer, love, joy, grief, and beauty seem to have seeped into its stone like water in a sponge. I honestly was awed by the sense of it being a living entity, and I have to confess that I felt moved enough to get up early and attend morning Mass there almost every day I was in Paris.

The Quaker meetings I’ve attended have all been beautiful, both in terms of architecture and the people in the congregation. Beauty can take many different forms. It just seems like so much of the aesthetic of white Protestant fundamentalism is just...aggressively ugly. Not minimalist, but purposely unattractive, when it’s not being boring. I think it’s because there is a suspicion in Western Christianity in general and Western Protestantism in particular of anything sensual. Not necessarily sex per se, but anything that is too pleasing to the five senses is seen as too worldly. This is why white fundies tend to see the black church as “doing Christianity wrong” because it is too lively, too worldly, and not ethereal enough. Even Catholic traditionalists, who harp on a lot about the relationship between Truth, Beauty, and the Good fall into this mindset by their own dislike of the sensual during the Mass, as well as their inability to distinguish vintage kitsch from fine art.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Cleopatra7

[Flyinthesoup]

1 hour ago, Antipatriarch said:

Flannelgraphs! Oh yeah, I'm old enough to remember those. They're kinda like post-it notes... the background is flannel, and the pieces have something on the back that lightly adheres to it.

I loved flannelgraphs, the best part of school! If I remember correctly, I think the older ones were actually flannel pieces, used on the flannel boards, but then, when they went to paper, they put flannel or velcro-like strips on the back to make them stick.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

For our fellow senior members of fj, do you remember in vacation Bible school and Sunday school where the teacher put the little figures on the felt board to illustrate Bible stories?  Not sure exactly how they stayed up. Does anyone else have a better memory of how this worked? Then, in vacation Bible school we had a little snack of milk and cookies and then laid down on mats and took a nap.  A sweet and innocent time. 

Flanelgraphs! I loved those, especially when the teacher would choose kids to put pieces on the board. 

We didn't drink milk, but we had little round butter cookies and some sort of orange drink. Did anyone else sing that ridiculous Father Abraham song that makes no sense whatsoever? 

[Dreadcrumbs]

The last couple of times I tried to make Christianity and going to church work for me I went to Episcopalian churches. I finally realized one day a few months back that as nice as the services were, and the people seemed, I wasn't where I was supposed to be. That being said, I do have a soft spot for Episcopalianism/Anglicanism.

I kind of remember flannelgraphs from preschool!  As far as snacks go, I best remember the graham crackers with cream cheese and juice or milk. ? I was sad when those snacks went away after kindergarten.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Dreadcrumbs

[Leftitinmysnood]

I didn't think I qualified as a senior member, but I remember flannel boards from Sunday School. The board was flannel and the figures were printed on felt, so they stuck kind of like velcro. I remember my mom laboriously cutting out the figures for the class she taught. I distinctly remember one depicting Zaccheus, which led to the song about "Zaccheus was a wee little man." We also sang the song about Father Abraham's many sons. Also one about all the military actions we might not take, but "I'm in the Lord's Army!"

We seemed to always get apple juice and graham crackers. I still dislike Graham crackers plain. S'mores are ok, though.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

6 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

And then on the other side, you have traditionalist Catholics who are obsessed with “traditional architecture,” which usually translates into the styles that were popular during the Catholic building boom of the early twentieth century, which are neo-Gothic revivalism or Baroque, often combined with Victorian ostentatiousness and sentimentalism. This is how you get the obsession with “manly lace” for priests and altar servers in this crowd. Despite their different aesthetic sensibilities, I have noticed that both Protestant fundamentalists and Catholic traditionalists seem unable to distinguish kitsch from fine art.

I have actually seen some writing on this phenomenon lately, like here and here. Alt-righters and other very online racists love spreading images of "true beauty," which usually means treacly portraits of blonde women tending to children but also includes a lot of amateur architectural criticism. A lot of overlap with the fundie blogs whose headers were Victorian-style illustrations of domestic bliss. I somehow doubt that most of these goons are really moved by a copy-pasted romantic-nationalist painting in the sort of sublime emotional way that I seek in my own appreciation of art. Or that they could sit quietly somewhere like the Mattisse Chapel and not catch even a glimmer of beauty. Maybe I'm just projecting.

I personally love kitsch and excess, and I particularly love Catholic kitsch, but the interest comes partly in the tension between its grandiose themes and its cheap production.

[Dreadcrumbs]

38 minutes ago, Leftitinmysnood said:

I didn't think I qualified as a senior member, but I remember flannel boards from Sunday School. The board was flannel and the figures were printed on felt, so they stuck kind of like velcro. I remember my mom laboriously cutting out the figures for the class she taught. I distinctly remember one depicting Zaccheus, which led to the song about "Zaccheus was a wee little man." We also sang the song about Father Abraham's many sons. Also one about all the military actions we might not take, but "I'm in the Lord's Army!"

We seemed to always get apple juice and graham crackers. I still dislike Graham crackers plain. S'mores are ok, though.

I didn't think I qualified as a senior member either.

[Howl]

8 hours ago, Leftitinmysnood said:

I didn't think I qualified as a senior member, but I remember flannel boards from Sunday School.

 

7 hours ago, Dreadcrumbs said:

didn't think I qualified as a senior member either.

I'll modify then and retroactively edit:  Do y'all remember when...... 

I assumed that this was a distant memory and the flannel-graph had gone the way of so many oddities from my childhood in the 1950s. 

[BullyJBG]

12 hours ago, Howl said:

 

For our fellow senior members of fj, do you remember in vacation Bible school and Sunday school where the teacher put the little figures on the felt board to illustrate Bible stories?  Not sure exactly how they stayed up. Does anyone else have a better memory of how this worked? Then, in vacation Bible school we had a little snack of milk and cookies and then laid down on mats and took a nap.  A sweet and innocent time. 

 

 

 

Yes, I remember flannelgraphs, both as a student and as a teacher.

VBS had naps? Your VBS was all day? The VBS I went to as a child, and the ones I observe with my current church this year, it's only between 2-3 hours, and therefore there was no time for naps. Snacks, yes. It was always something related to the story. Yes @formergothardite purple and orange Kool-Aid and cookies usually. It generally was like an extended Sunday school, except we didn't dress up pretty, we sang more fun songs(who remembers If I Were a Butterfly with all the actions), and we were encouraged to invite our friends and we did. Come to think of it, me and the friends invited never talked about it any other time of the year. We had fun and took turns quoting the Bible memory verse, but then school started and that memory faded off.

 And today's VBS is similar, except the whole church is decorated special, and kids in different groups traveled to different sections. The workers dress in costumes related to a certain Bible theme or story. I don't know if flannelgraphs are used as much, but there is singing to words on a screen. The whole church makes a team effort to put it on.

  Anyway, love the drift. Related to the original topic of the Duggars, well, at VBS we have songs that we dance to. Has the Duggars' stances on dancing modified? Think they'd pull their kids out with such a thing, or just let them have the exercise, knowing that boys and girls don't dance with each other in a potentially sensual way?

[apple1]

30 minutes ago, Howl said:

I assumed that this was a distant memory and the flannel-graph had gone the way of so many oddities from my childhood in the 1950s. 

I hope somehow some way kids are still experiencing learning (the Biblical stories) by flannelgraph. Instead of an electronic/ video screen. Maybe the method activates some different learning pathway in the brain, who knows?

Plus - When these stories are well-taught - that background gives a base for potentially being able to distinguish what is a real belief system from a cult. Not one lesson alone, the entire body of lessons.

[Howl]

16 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

VBS had naps? Your VBS was all day?

IIRC, vacation bible school was all morning (3 or 4 hours), so, yes, there was a mid morning break.  Also, the nap may have been for the wee children and not older kids. 

[frumperlicious]

You super dont have to be senior to know flannelgraphs, my daughter is a member here (how trippy is that, I discovered the Fundie World due to homeschooling her at age 5 and now she is 21 and a part of the watching...) and I made home made ones for her. From popular TV shows or whatever she requested, I’d buy felt sheets and cut them out, and she had a felt board for them. The ones I made were pretty cool if I do say so myself. 

[Cleopatra7]

27 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

Related to the original topic of the Duggars, well, at VBS we have songs that we dance to. Has the Duggars' stances on dancing modified? Think they'd pull their kids out with such a thing, or just let them have the exercise, knowing that boys and girls don't dance with each other in a potentially sensual way?

My guess is that JB and Michelle’s anti-dancing stance hasn’t changed and expect all J’kids living at home to follow. The married J’girls presumably follow whatever standards on dancing that their husbands follow, so I think Jill and Jinger might dance, but I doubt Joy would (I could see Jeremy approving of ballroom dancing or European folk dancing for some reason), given that Austin is a Gothardite. Since it appears like the married J’boys are still under JB’s umbrella of protection because they work for him in various capacities, I doubt they or their families dance.

[formergothardite]

51 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

f I Were a Butterfly with all the actions

I had not thought of this song in forever! But it has stuck in my mind.Who else sang the "I am a promise! I am a possibility! I am a promise with a capital P. I am a great big bundle of potentiality!"There was another song we sang that thinking about it now is very Gwen like with the claims heave is another planet. I don't remember the whole song but it had a line about God preparing a place in outer space for us to live. 

I wonder when the themed Bible school happened.