Josh Harris Announced "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Was Discontinued

[formergothardite]

36 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

  My guess is that the basic container is miniscule as well as ugly so everyone has to upgrade.

To give an idea, a mason jar is an extra $15 over the basic container. So yeah, the basic container is tiny. I looked on their website and couldn't find anything about what the basic container looks like. Their groupon shows larger containers, it is no wonder people are shocked when they are handed something tiny. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

23 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I would demand my money back and walk out of any class in a store with dead things mounted on the walls and pro-war speechifying by a Teddy Roosevelt impersonator. 

I'm fairly accustomed to finding examples of taxidermy (sometimes lots and lots of dead things mounted on the walls) in restaurants, bar & grill places, and saloons in the rural areas (especially in the mountains) around my area. I think it would surprise and jar me more in a city like Portland. 

[erunerune]

I almost visited on a trip to Portland a couple years ago, but I couldn’t get anyone in my family on board with “fundie terrarium shop visit” as a reasonable way to spend time on vacation. They just don’t know how to have fun sometimes.

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I read a few of the reviews that gave low ratings, and this 2 star rating was my favorite:

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The tone of the response labeled as being from the business owner reminds me of other Christian Patriarchs™️ we follow.

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So very patronizing.

Sounds like at least some customers have him on the run!  That long-ass, offensive response!  What is the Bible verse abiut people who  think they’re going to be impressive by using a lot of words — but aren’t?

Here’s a secular version: “The lady doth protest too much.”

Edited July 28, 2019 by MamaJunebug

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

20 minutes ago, erunerune said:

I almost visited on a trip to Portland a couple years ago, but I couldn’t get anyone in my family on board with “fundie terrarium shop visit” as a reasonable way to spend time on vacation. They just don’t know how to have fun sometimes.

On our last trip to Portland, I considered asking my husband what he thought about stopping by the coffee shop where Miss Raquel worked. Just for a brief moment.

[Giraffe]

That response from Gregg was chilling. I can understand why it took his son 20 years to renounce his teachings! I wonder how many years ago Josh & Shannon started seeing the cracks. He’s said in interviews it was around the time they moved to Canada. My guess is it was actually much earlier. 

[AmazonGrace]

Yes let's be friends, I'm sure we'd have so much fun, shady shopkeeper. 

[Palimpsest]

And Brent Detwiler's Facebook is heating up.  He's got some Patriarchal pals to back him up now.  And he is warning people his page is public.  Was that a threat, Brent?

He says he is rebuking Joshua Harris from a place of Grace.  It's his duty to trash Josh's reputation, dammit.  He's been Josh's friend and mentor for 15 years.  Really?  You've accused him of lying several times, Brent. 

It is Brent's  Christian duty to lovingly condemn Joshua for rejecting Christ.  And he is soooo not being legalistic!  No siree.  Not Brent.   But legalism is sticking out all over,

What Josh said was:

Quote

The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.

Perhaps Josh does not yet know that you can definitely be a good Christian and not hate LBGTQ+ people and see them as unredeemable sinners.  Perhaps he does not yet know that there are churches that actually support women in ministry and allows them to lead.  Perhaps Josh will become a Buddhist.  Or an atheist.  But that is his business and God's business.  Not yours or mine.

Hey Brent, when you were denounced for slander whistle blowing by Mahaney and your other former friends not so long ago did you think it came from a place of Love and Grace?  Thought not.  

https://baptistnews.com/article/ministry-leaders-blast-whistleblower/#.XT3Y5OhKjIU

And Josh's possible gay cat is sliding right off the edge of the roof now.  People are speculating openly.  Thanks to Brent.

I have a sneaking suspicion Brent may have his own kitty cat in a closet.  It is the level of vitriol and what feels like a preemptive strike to discredit Josh so thoroughly.  Back off, Brent.  Hypocrisy is a sin.  Acts 4:36 - 5:11.  

Edited July 28, 2019 by Palimpsest

[hoipolloi]

Re: adding expertise to his business. Clearly, Gregg Harris needs to hire some ace historian-interpreters to portray Teddy Roosevelt. 

Maybe he should give these guys a call?

Edited July 28, 2019 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[Marmion]

11 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Holy shyte, Gregg Harris is foul!!!

Big man tattled on homeschooling rival

He and one of his sons now operate Roosevelt’s Terrariums in Oregon. I’m thinking the only reason for the Roosevelt name is that Gregg fancies himself a Teddy look-alike. In any case, some of his patrons display cleavage in the bteastal area. And Gregg includes the sordid shots in publicity. 

For the life of me, I can’t figure how how to link it. Just google “yelp - Roosevelt’s  Terrariums Portland” and you’ll see. 

 Also: if Josh does turn out to be light in his loafers, woe betide his relationship with the patriarch. Gregg rejected children from gay parents as members of his home schooling community. Yep: punished the children for the sins [sic] of the parents. Despicable. 

I noticed that the link referenced Calvary Chapel  , just in case some here might not know it , they have a reputation for being a shepherding  cult .   https://dynamitepublishing.com/2018/05/15/is-calvary-chapel-a-cult-what-is-wrong-how-calvary-chapel-adds-to-the-bible/ , 

Quote

https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/03/03/calvary-chapel-chuck-smith-the-moses-model-let-the-little-dogs-bark/

 

[Marmion]

4 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I read a few of the reviews that gave low ratings, and this 2 star rating was my favorite:

  Reveal hidden contents

The tone of the response labeled as being from the business owner reminds me of other Christian Patriarchs™️ we follow.

  Reveal hidden contents

So very patronizing.

All this sounds like the tactics of a corporate cult  . I am not sure if his business qualifies as being a MLM , but it seems troubling , just the same .   https://botwatch.blog/2017/09/13/network-marketing-is-a-cult-2/ , 

[Palimpsest]

32 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Re: adding expertise to his business. Clearly, Gregg Harris needs to hire some ace historian-interpreters to portray Teddy Roosevelt. 

Maybe he should give these guys a call?

That image is so Dad's Army. 

[Briefly]

23 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Agree -- and I think it will be sooner than we might imagine. 

JH's carefully rolled out story seems like the old joke about how to break the news the cat is dead:  First it's "The cat's on the roof"  then it's "Oh no, the cat's sick" and finally it's "Oh, sad news -- the cat's dead." 

It just feels like there is another shoe to be dropped.

It does have the "other shoe" feeling. I won't be surprised if there is an announcement, but it is also possible that he could be outed by someone else. It would not be the first time that happened,

[Palimpsest]

Oh sure, Brent Detwiler.  Run away.  We know you lost the argument.

Quote

Brent Detwiler I am going to stop taking comments. I have answered to everything. I am ONLY doing this because I have other important work I must do. If I had time to respond to comments, I would continue comments. As a matter of conscience, I can't allow commentspromoting error, unbiblical positions, or sinful accusations unless I have time to respond. Pray for the protection of the gospel, pray that Josh quickly turns from his renunciation of Jesus and the Bible, pray that people are not stumbled in the faith because of his heresy. There is much at stake including Josh's soul.

If I prayed, it would be for Brent's soul as well as Joshua's.

As it is, I am sending good thoughts in both their directions in the hope that they can both see the errors of their ways.  They both participated in Sovereign Grace Ministries and probably both observed, and denied, and covered up sexual abuse in their time.   

Brent, thanks for blowing the whistle.  If you give Joshua time perhaps he will blow a whistle too.  Yes, he has waited far too long.  But, unlike you, he didn't start that corrupt organisation.  You too were taken in by Mahaney.  Do penance too, Brent.  Hard penance.

And I don't give a flying fuck if either or both is homosexual.  So long as sex is genuinely consensual and doesn't hurt others it is absolutely none of my business.

There is a lot at stake here. 

Like the truth about SGM.   For the sakes of all the victims who were subjected to non-consensual sexual assaults and rape by church officials and church employees.  

Edited July 29, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Loveday]

He said he would stop taking comments ten hours ago--and then left the comments open. They're still open.

I'd not heard of Detwiler before now. I've just spent the past hour reading through all the comments on that post. Detwiler is piling on Harris like it's his job and he's getting paid big bucks for it. 

Spoiler

One of the many lines in my family tree is a Detwiler line. I hope Brent's Detwilers are a completely different family, but I have a funny feeling we're related. A nauseating thought. But of course we can't pick our relatives, can we? 

 

[Palimpsest]

4 minutes ago, Loveday said:

I'd not heard of Detwiler before now.

Well, unless you followed SGM scandals in real time, Brent Detwiler is a bit obscure.  And this went down quite a few years ago.

I'm going to have to refresh my memory on the chronology, but I think Brent jumped ship just before the brown matter conclusively hit the revolving object at SGM.  Did he jump ship because he couldn't stand the sexual abuse or was it just a power struggle with Mahaney -- anyone's guess.

Detwiler obviously had knowledge of the sexual abuse.  He did blow the whistle on Mahaney after he left SGM.  To his credit.  But it was more about removing Mahaney from ministry than it was caring about victims.

And Brent has his own self-righteous ministry today and is obviously still Fundie as fuck.  

[Loveday]

28 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Well, unless you followed SGM scandals in real time, Brent Detwiler is a bit obscure.  And this went down quite a few years ago.

I'm going to have to refresh my memory on the chronology, but I think Brent jumped ship just before the brown matter conclusively hit the revolving object at SGM.  Did he jump ship because he couldn't stand the sexual abuse or was it just a power struggle with Mahaney -- anyone's guess.

Detwiler obviously had knowledge of the sexual abuse.  He did blow the whistle on Mahaney after he left SGM.  To his credit.  But it was more about removing Mahaney from ministry than it was caring about victims.

And Brent has his own self-righteous ministry today and is obviously still Fundie as fuck.  

I have to admit I didn't follow any of the SGM stuff in real time, and have only seen passing reference to it all occasionally since then. I know some of the names, and have slight knowledge of the sexual abuse, mainly from following the odd link here and there while reading about something else. I'm not sure I have the stomach to go down that rabbit hole.

[hoipolloi]

48 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Did he jump ship because he couldn't stand the sexual abuse or was it just a power struggle with Mahaney -- anyone's guess.

IIRC, without wading through Brett's copious documentation & commentary, his parting of the ways came over questions he had about CJ's handling of SGM finances & CJ's behavior in general, which included lying about what he'd done with the money.

Don't remember that Brett immediately blew a whistle on SGM's mishandling of sexual abuse cases involving minors. Much of that information first came to public light through the SGM Survivors blog.

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[Antipatriarch]

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Well, unless you followed SGM scandals in real time, Brent Detwiler is a bit obscure.  And this went down quite a few years ago.

Brent is the Inspector Javert of the SGM story. He was in high leadership from the earliest days of PDI/SGM but then he had a very public falling-out with CJ Mahaney. He's persona non grata with the neocal/reformed set, IMO because of the bulldoggish way he's pursued the endless list of things he's angry about. If you had a few months to spare, you could read everything he's written since then. He's "committed," or (I sometimes think) should be.

On the plus side, he has supported the victims of sexual abuse at the SGM churches, and called out SGM's leadership for the appalling way they failed to handle those cases and care for the victims. Same with Tom Chantry and ARBCA. On that he's absolutely right. On the minus side, he refuses to accept responsibility for the authoritarian and frankly abusive leadership culture that he helped create, which resulted in so much harm at SGM.

His post this week about Josh is absolutely typical: He, the anointed apostle (I'm not exaggerating), stands in the marketplace to decry the evil of Josh denying the faith. And in 1-3 weeks over at brentdetwiler.com you'll be able to read his latest 100-page jeremiad all about Josh... with copious details and dates of all the times Brent has confronted Josh and demanded he humble himself and repent, and how Josh has refused.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Antipatriarch

[hoipolloi]

26 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

On the plus side, he has supported the victims of sexual abuse at the SGM churches, and called out SGM's leadership for the appalling way they failed to handle those cases and care for the victims.

This is true, AFAIK. 

Once the abuse -- and SGM leadership's efforts to squelch reporting of it & simultaneous protection of the abusers -- became known via SGM Survivors & other venues, Brent did back up the victims and their families to the hilt.

 

[Mrs Ms]

10 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

That image is so Dad's Army. 

Aw, come on. At least the guys in Dad’s Army TRIED, even if they were bloviating buffoons! 

[mango_fandango]

You could say “stupid boy” about quite a number of fundie men... if not all of them. 

[smittykins]

18 hours ago, Marmion said:

I noticed that the link referenced Calvary Chapel  , just in case some here might not know it , they have a reputation for being a shepherding  cult .   https://dynamitepublishing.com/2018/05/15/is-calvary-chapel-a-cult-what-is-wrong-how-calvary-chapel-adds-to-the-bible/ , 

 

We have a Calvary Chapel in my area that used to be a Baptist church, although I don’t know what flavor.

[Loveday]

9 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

His post this week about Josh is absolutely typical: He, the anointed apostle (I'm not exaggerating), stands in the marketplace to decry the evil of Josh denying the faith. And in 1-3 weeks over at brentdetwiler.com you'll be able to read his latest 100-page jeremiad all about Josh... with copious details and dates of all the times Brent has confronted Josh and demanded he humble himself and repent, and how Josh has refused.

Yes, I noticed he seems fond of pointing out what the apostles--not to mention Jesus, Paul, and God-- would do to Josh in this situation. I'm itching to tell him that he, Brent, is no apostle.  

He also seems quite fond of his own writings. On 27 June he posted 'MY MOST IMPORTANT ARTICLE EVER!' Haven't read it yet, so I don't know what makes it so much more important than all his other important articles, but I'm sure I'll be very impressed  nauseated when I do read it.?

The self-righteousness is strong with this one.

[Antipatriarch]

36 minutes ago, Loveday said:

Yes, I noticed he seems fond of pointing out what the apostles--not to mention Jesus, Paul, and God-- would do to Josh in this situation. I'm itching to tell him that he, Brent, is no apostle.  

Incredibly, Brent actually believes he is, literally, an apostle. The original leaders of PDI (which later became SGM) believe that apostleship didn't end with the N.T. They created an "Apostolic Team" at the top. The pastors of all the churches in the SGM network were accountable to the A Team. The A Team was only accountable to themselves. They were strongly authoritative in the way they led; questioning the leadership was discouraged (e.g. "sinfully craving answers"). Yeah, I can't see any ways that could go wrong.

On a recent post over at SGM Survivors, several former SGMers pressed Brent strongly to answer whether he still believed this "apostleship" polity and practice was correct, and eventually he said clearly he still does. So in his eyes, he's writing with the authority of an apostle.