Josh Harris Announced "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" Was Discontinued

[Curious]

On 11/2/2018 at 10:06 AM, Palimpsest said:

It is worth noting that the poor, immature, innocent, misguided, 21 year-old young man who wrote IKDG has not spent the last 20 years in a vacuum. 

I'm just using this as a jumping off point.  I didn't read this thread when it was originally started, but I keep getting notices that people I follow are posting on it so I decided to take a look at it.   I'm still many pages behind, but wanted to say stuff before I forget.

I don't understand several (understatement) things with fundies.

First, I don't understand relying on people with NO experience in whatever area being the "primary" source to live by.

Gothard never married, but somehow has the ultimate key to marriage.  All these kids (Harris, Botkins, Duggars, etc) have never dated (or even courted), been married or have been married for 5 minutes and yet they are authorities on whatever topic.   

I don't get why people don't think I'm the same age and I don't know squat about this topic so I'm not going to listen to someone that has the exact same amount of experience I have. 

If I have an issue, I want to learn from someone that has gone through what I'm going through or was educated (at an accreditated institution) and knows more about it than I do.   The same thing goes for having a president.  I want a president that has MORE knowledge than I have, but that's a different discussion.

My current favorite tv show is Dr. Pimple Popper.   If I had a weird lump (first I would not wait for 15 fucking years to have it checked out while it grows to ginormous portions) I'd go to a dr., not google the guy that removed his own lipoma to do it myself.    

That way is madness!

Second and I've said this before if you have properly educated your kids and you trust your own parenting there is no reason to keep your kids on such a short leash and micromanage their every move.   All this tells me is you don't trust your kids to do the right thing and I would be PISSED if that was happening to me.

 

[Palimpsest]

10 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Josh's statement (quoted above) is not surprising. He seems to have had a true epiphany. Until the past few years, I doubt he's ever been allowed, or allowed himself, to question his Christian faith. Certainly, he didn't, or couldn't, while under his father's roof and I doubt that the SGM years left any room for self-examination and reflection. 

Now, given his epiphany, he next needs to come to terms appropriately with the SGM debacle and the role(s) he may have played in causing harm to so many in that community. 

 

Yes.  I think that was a handsome and comprehensive apology from Joshua, especially to women and the LGBTQ+ community.  He does seem to have had a real epiphany.  I respect that.  I don't think he was there even a few months ago.  Thank you, Joshua Harris.  I doff my hat to you.

Now I have a bit of totally unsolicited advice for Joshua.  

Do shut up.  Go and live your life privately for a few more years while you sort your head and your life out.  You do need to think about the damage you did at SGM, and that goes to the sexual abuse cover-ups, not just your attitudes to women and LGBTQ+.   Only share your thoughts with your closest friends and good therapists as you work through all this.  Consider restitution as well as repentance.  But for now, focus on your children's well-being as you go through your divorce.  It will be hard for them.  And try to build up your secular business to support them.

Don't think that your new money-making career is to be a publicity grubbing, TEDx talking, documentary making, professional exChristian.  You are not ready for that yet.  You can speak out when you have your head straight.  Please don't turn into an evangelist Atheist who berates people of faith, even if you have lost your own faith.  Lower case atheists like me find that as repulsive as aggressive Christian evangelism.

One last thought:  Although I have no reason to suspect it, I will not eat my hat if at some point Joshua Harris announces that he is, in fact, gay.  I cannot even begin to imagine the pain so many LBGTQ people go through as they struggle with their sexuality in these spiritually abusive and utterly disgraceful churches.  

Edited July 27, 2019 by Palimpsest

[MamaJunebug]

Please to forgive my cluelessness: what’s GYM?

[Coconut Flan]

Godly Young Man.

When you see acronyms with little joined dots under them, if you hover your cursor over them a little box showing what it stands for will show up beside it.  

Edited July 27, 2019 by Coconut Flan

[Antipatriarch]

17 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

John Piper's son Barnabas is now divorced and has reported that it caused real strain in his relationship with his father.

I thought Barnabas handled his divorce as well as anyone could have, with a lot of grace. He was very careful not to trash-talk his ex, or reveal too much personal stuff. But in the things he wrote and interviews he gave, it's clear that (1) his ex-wife at some point deconverted and is no longer a Christian, (2) Barnabas wanted the marriage to work and fought for it as long as he could, but (3) at some point he realized the marriage was dead and it was time to let go.

The strain with his dad is clearly because of their different views on divorce and remarriage. Barnabas said:

Quote

My dad believes I should be in the persistent pursuit of a marriage that no longer is in existence. He believes I should only get remarried if my ex-wife does or if she passes away. If the possibility of reconciliation still exists, he believes that should be the aim of my prayers. And that is a sticking point for us.

I think Barnabas did the right thing, and I wish him well. His decisions clearly took some courage given his upbringing and the opinions of his father.

[hoipolloi]

4 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

I think Barnabas did the right thing, and I wish him well. His decisions clearly took some courage given his upbringing and the opinions of his father.

He did do the right thing & it took courage. John Piper has never impressed me as a kind, compassionate, and loving person. He'd almost certainly see a child's marital problems and/or divorce as reflecting negatively on himself.

One wonders if John Piper's upset over his son's divorce -- apart from the natural pain of a parent seeing a child go through divorce, especially with grandchildren -- has to do with partially hidden turmoil in his own marriage. 

Some years ago, John Piper requested & received permission for a leave of absence about which he said "My prayer is that this leave will prove to be healing from the inside of my soul, through Noël’s heart, and out to our children and their families, and beyond to anyone who may have been hurt by my failures."

Back from his leave some months later, he reported that it was time well spent and that everything was fine -- big surprise. 

One wonders what Noel thought of it all.

 

[Antipatriarch]

Reporting on Josh's "separation" Instagram post, Religion News Service in the headline to an article dubbed IKDG, TLW, etc. as "The Sexual Prosperity Gospel". I don't know if they're the first to coin that phrase, but it's brilliant. That summarizes the philosophy perfectly.

Josh is responsible for a lot of harm, but he has also revealed a lot more humanity and compassion than others in his segment of Christianity, and I sincerely wish him all the best. Those in his former tribe who are now jumping in to call him an apostate, those on the other side confidently reporting that he's "joined the LGBT movement," I think are missing the point: Josh is now on a new journey (he has not arrived at a new destination).

I hope he takes 5-10 years out of the limelight, and then writes another book with what he's learned. This man knows where the bodies are buried at SGM; he was there for a lot of it. And he would be able to take his apologies for IKDG and CLC further. Maybe he will, as he gets farther down the path.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Antipatriarch

[Jezzable]

2 hours ago, Antipatriarch said:

Reporting on Josh's "separation" Instagram post, Religion News Service in the headline to an article dubbed IKDG, TLW, etc. as "The Sexual Prosperity Gospel". I don't know if they're the first to coin that phrase, but it's brilliant. That summarizes the philosophy perfectly.

 

Yes, the author of that article is the originator of that phrase, and I agree, it is brilliant. She posted a thread on Twitter several days ago and I was hoping she would expound on her thoughts. 

[Giraffe]

Chiming in to add to the chorus. I love “The Sexual Prosperity Gospel.” That’s absolutely what the purity movement is!!! 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

11 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Although I have no reason to suspect it, I will not eat my hat if at some point Joshua Harris announces that he is, in fact, gay. 

Agree -- and I think it will be sooner than we might imagine. 

JH's carefully rolled out story seems like the old joke about how to break the news the cat is dead:  First it's "The cat's on the roof"  then it's "Oh no, the cat's sick" and finally it's "Oh, sad news -- the cat's dead." 

It just feels like there is another shoe to be dropped.

[Walking Cat Bed]

On 7/26/2019 at 5:26 PM, Mrs Ms said:

There is always the option to turn any book into a craft project. Book origami or hollowed out hiding spot etc. Though you would want to cover up/colour over any visible offensive writing 

As one of the FJ librarians:

 

The value of a book is its content, not the physical pages. Especially when mass market paperbacks are common and cheap. 

 

Destroy those things and recycle the parts. Whether that's art or a paper recycling system. 

[Jezzable]

Brent Detwiler has gone off the rails and the comments are crazy. 

 

[Mrs Ms]

https://images.app.goo.gl/6Ln1nz5bMY1y8VRu7

Was thinking something along these lines. 

[MamaJunebug]

Holy shyte, Gregg Harris is foul!!!

Big man tattled on homeschooling rival

He and one of his sons now operate Roosevelt’s Terrariums in Oregon. I’m thinking the only reason for the Roosevelt name is that Gregg fancies himself a Teddy look-alike. In any case, some of his patrons display cleavage in the bteastal area. And Gregg includes the sordid shots in publicity. 

For the life of me, I can’t figure how how to link it. Just google “yelp - Roosevelt’s  Terrariums Portland” and you’ll see. 

 Also: if Josh does turn out to be light in his loafers, woe betide his relationship with the patriarch. Gregg rejected children from gay parents as members of his home schooling community. Yep: punished the children for the sins [sic] of the parents. Despicable. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by MamaJunebug

[CyborgKin]

"This was inevitable given how his recent documentary never once covered what God and the Bible had to say on his views," - is what certain people i know are going to say in response to this.

Anyone hanging on to any of IKDG's teachings is gonna say this just proves he was right to begin with due to his retraction causing this.

[stylites]

2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Holy shyte, Gregg Harris is foul!!!

Big man tattled on homeschooling rival

He and one of his sons now operate Roosevelt’s Terrariums in Oregon. I’m thinking the only reason for the Roosevelt name is that Gregg fancies himself a Teddy look-alike. In any case, some of his patrons display cleavage in the bteastal area. And Gregg includes the sordid shots in publicity. 

For the life of me, I can’t figure how how to link it. Just google “yelp - Roosevelt’s  Terrariums Portland” and you’ll see.

I went to that site - and generally like terrariums -- but it strikes me that enclosing particular types of life into a container to which they are non-native is kind of a metaphor for the theology that Gregg and his cronies have been pushing on men and (especially) women.

[seraaa]

5 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

Holy shyte, Gregg Harris is foul!!!

Big man tattled on homeschooling rival

He and one of his sons now operate Roosevelt’s Terrariums in Oregon. I’m thinking the only reason for the Roosevelt name is that Gregg fancies himself a Teddy look-alike. In any case, some of his patrons display cleavage in the bteastal area. And Gregg includes the sordid shots in publicity. 

For the life of me, I can’t figure how how to link it. Just google “yelp - Roosevelt’s  Terrariums Portland” and you’ll see. 

 Also: if Josh does turn out to be light in his loafers, woe betide his relationship with the patriarch. Gregg rejected children from gay parents as members of his home schooling community. Yep: punished the children for the sins [sic] of the parents. Despicable. 

I read things like this and realise the absolute leap that Josh and Shannon are making away from their upbringing. It's just so hard, and that isn't assuming that the rest of the family haven't also evolved in their views.

Or rather, it is upbringing in his case

Edited July 28, 2019 by seraaa

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, Jezzable said:

Brent Detwiler has gone off the rails and the comments are crazy. 

 

Really, Brent.  Your Fundie ass is showing and it is not a pretty sight.  This level of vitriol and rebuking makes me wonder whether Josh knows where a few of your skeletons are buried. 

Why does Josh admitting that he is having a crisis of faith threaten Brent so much.  Interesting.

Bible texts are being hurled.  And Brent's are all from Paul.  Naturally.  Some "friend" you are, Brent. 

Quote

Brent Detwiler Jeffrey Hoffman Why are you making excuses for Josh turning his back on Jesus Christ. He can turn his back on SGM. Fine. He is knowingly rejected his Creator and Redeemer. This is a clear case of Roman 1:18-32.

Yep, Brent just accused Josh of being (gasp) gay.  Among other things.  The majority of the  Christians posting on Facebook. are supporting Josh and telling Brent to calm the shit down . Not in those words.

Oy, Brent.  This is a clear case of you not obeying Matthew 18.  Take a chill pill, man.  Pray for the sinner to repent don't berate him.

 

[AmazonGrace]

It was largely Christians like that whom I have to thank for losing my faith, weak though it may have been to begin with. 

After all you know them by the fruit they bear. And well, *shrug*

[smittykins]

19 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Godly Young Man.

When you see acronyms with little joined dots under them, if you hover your cursor over them a little box showing what it stands for will show up beside it.  

Unfortunately, that doesn’t work on tablets/iPads(I have to use Google).

[AmazonGrace]

On 7/27/2019 at 4:07 PM, Curious said:

 

First, I don't understand relying on people with NO experience in whatever area being the "primary" source to live by.

 

How else are you going to get enough of the whacked up nonsense that you want them to say? 

People with actual experience are in danger of getting a clue eventually. 

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

For the life of me, I can’t figure how how to link it. Just google “yelp - Roosevelt’s  Terrariums Portland” and you’ll see. 

I couldn't find it, but what I did find is that despite his continued claims that they "try" to make prices clear, lots of people pay a lot of money for a class and are shocked to discover they need to pay way more money to actually make the terrarium. Also, he starves his frogs and has people put them in too small of containers. Someone nicely put a side by side of what a healthy frog looks like and the frogs that they are offering. 

[Palimpsest]

27 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I couldn't find it, but what I did find is that despite his continued claims that they "try" to make prices clear, lots of people pay a lot of money for a class and are shocked to discover they need to pay way more money to actually make the terrarium. Also, he starves his frogs and has people put them in too small of containers. Someone nicely put a side by side of what a healthy frog looks like and the frogs that they are offering. 

This must be the store site.  https://www.rooseveltspdx.com/ So $60 for a 2 hour class with a basic container included.  A $25 credit if you want to upgrade to a bigger expensive container.  My guess is that the basic container is miniscule as well as ugly so everyone has to upgrade.

Did you see Gregg's response to the dart frog critique on yelp?  He wanted to hire the negative reviewer as a consultant.   Poor frogs.

And he chucked his son's girlfriend under the bus in another response to a complaint that service was bad..

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I read a few of the reviews that gave low ratings, and this 2 star rating was my favorite:

Spoiler

The tone of the response labeled as being from the business owner reminds me of other Christian Patriarchs™️ we follow.

Spoiler

So very patronizing.

Edited July 28, 2019 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
Tried to improve an awkward sentence

[Palimpsest]

10 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I read a few of the reviews that gave low ratings, and this 2 star rating was my favorite:

Now that was an excellent negative review.

Forget the terrarium!  I would demand my money back and walk out of any class in a store with dead things mounted on the walls and pro-war speechifying by a Teddy Roosevelt impersonator.