Josie and Kelton 3: Living in the White Evangelical Bubble

[HereticHick]

12 minutes ago, melon said:

My son's friend's father is opposed to Target.He will not shop there.If he receives a gift card from Target,he gives it away,

He doesn't approve a Target. 1) It's not American,as you said,it's French 2) Charities are not allowed to collect there,like mostly around the holiday season 3) He is a Veteran and claims Target doesn't support our troops. Well,why would they?

I don't share his opinion,at all.I prefer Target over Walmart.

I'm super confused. How exactly is the Target Corporation "French"?

"Target Corporation is the second-largest department store retailer in the United States, behind Walmart, and is a component of the S&P 500 Index. Founded by George Dayton and headquartered in Minneapolis, the company was originally named Goodfellow Dry Goods in June 1902 before being renamed the Dayton's Dry Goods Company in 1903 and later the Dayton Company in 1910. The first Target store opened in Roseville, Minnesota in 1962 while the parent company was renamed the Dayton Corporation in 1967. It became the Dayton-Hudson Corporation after merging with the J.L. Hudson Company in 1969 and held ownership of several department store chains including Dayton's, Hudson's, Marshall Field's, and Mervyn's.

Target established itself as the highest-earning division of the Dayton-Hudson Corporation in the 1970s; it began expanding the store nationwide in the 1980s and introduced new store formats under the Target brand in the 1990s. The company has found success as a cheap-chic player in the industry.[2] The parent company was renamed the Target Corporation in 2000 and divested itself of its last department store chains in 2004. It suffered from a massive and highly publicized security breach of customer credit card data and the failure of its short-lived Canadian subsidiary in the early 2010s but experienced revitalized success with its expansion in urban markets within the United States."

[Hisey]

15 hours ago, Hisey said:

to make a stand that may be completely based in my imagination

I mean that it makes no sense to give all my business to Michael's when I don't know what Michael's stands for. The fact that they occasionally support local events doesn't tell me much. All corporations do that--it's good PR. 

Make a sign, stand out in the cold and boycott HL that way, if you hate them so much. At least then you'll have a real impact. 

[nausicaa]

4 minutes ago, Hisey said:

I mean that it makes no sense to give all my business to Michael's when I don't know what Michael's stands for. The fact that they occasionally support local events doesn't tell me much. All corporations do that--it's good PR. 

Make a sign, stand out in the cold and boycott HL that way, if you hate them so much. At least then you'll have a real impact. 

Their point is--sometimes you need some damn pipe cleaners. You need to buy them from somewhere and can't just pull them out of your ass. So it's Hobby Lobby, Michael's, or Amazon. Some people choose the latter two, not as an endorsement of the companies or their practices, but rather as a way to express their displeasure with the publicized practices and beliefs of the first. 

 

You yet again are purposefully misunderstanding what people are saying to build up some weird soapbox and excuse to talk about how amazing you are.

I've been watching over the past few weeks as your normally uptight and self-aggrandizing posts (your ascetic teenage daughters would NEVER take a selfie, you can't imagine anyone ever having a smash cake when there are starving children in the world, you spent all your time and energy on your children and never worried about interior design or fashion. Bonus points for dropping in multiple times how you volunteer with homeless kids and give away random cash you find on the ground) have increased in intensity.

This latest series of posts has finally pushed me into thinking you're a troll. I just refuse to believe that this level of smug self-righteousness can be real.

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, Hisey said:

At least then you'll have a real impact. 

Getting people to not give them money will make a big impact. Spreading the word on the internet and in real life that the owners of Hobby Lobby are corrupt people who will use the money given to them to fund hate groups, will make an impact. I've already gotten a couple of people in real life to stop shopping there just based on the whole buy stuff on the black market and then lie to smuggle it into America thing they did. 

I never shopped at Hobby Lobby because of their connection to IBLP. When we first got one in this area and people asked why I didn't shop there I never ran into anyone who was also boycotting HL, now, even in the Bible Belt there are more and more people saying they won't support the company. 

Yes, stating that we won't give funds to businesses who are open about supporting hate groups and actively oppressing people will make a real impact, especially if more and more people join in. 

45 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Wasn't the group that dealt with Josh (during his hard labor, exile stage post the abuses) working on a building that was one of those facilities? Did I dream this?

Yes. You didn't dream it! I think we discussed it in the Josh threads at that point. 

[Rachel333]

I definitely support people boycotting companies they disagree with. What I don't understand is when people go out of their way to support huge companies (supporting smaller local businesses is a totally different matter). Just because they've figured out it's profitable to support some good causes doesn't mean they don't still do terrible things. Like with Nike recently, I liked their decision to feature Colin Kaepernick but I'm not going to show my support by going out of my way to give money to a company that is already making billions of dollars! I'm really pessimistic about giant corporations though and I think they're pretty much all evil no matter how "woke" they're trying to appear. (Though I'm still glad to see those companies making changes.)

I was talking about this with my younger sisters recently. We were laughing about a convenience store chain that has been encouraging people to apply for jobs there by saying, among other things, that you should apply if you're a "freak" for that chain, and we were saying how weird it would be if someone really was passionate about a convenience store chain like that. My sisters pointed out that it has become a thing in the Christian community to almost identify with Chic-fil-A and talk a lot about how much you love the store. As I told them, that shows how effective Chic-fil-A's marketing has been to turn their brand into a cultural marker. It's a manipulative tactic and they have been very effective at it.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

6 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I’m super confused. How exactly is the Target Corporation "French"?

My guess is that it’s because some people think it’s fun to say Tar-jay. 

[JordynDarby5]

7 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I'm super confused. How exactly is the Target Corporation "French"?

"Target Corporation is the second-largest department store retailer in the United States, behind Walmart, and is a component of the S&P 500 Index. Founded by George Dayton and headquartered in Minneapolis, the company was originally named Goodfellow Dry Goods in June 1902 before being renamed the Dayton's Dry Goods Company in 1903 and later the Dayton Company in 1910. The first Target store opened in Roseville, Minnesota in 1962 while the parent company was renamed the Dayton Corporation in 1967. It became the Dayton-Hudson Corporation after merging with the J.L. Hudson Company in 1969 and held ownership of several department store chains including Dayton's, Hudson's, Marshall Field's, and Mervyn's.

Target established itself as the highest-earning division of the Dayton-Hudson Corporation in the 1970s; it began expanding the store nationwide in the 1980s and introduced new store formats under the Target brand in the 1990s. The company has found success as a cheap-chic player in the industry.[2] The parent company was renamed the Target Corporation in 2000 and divested itself of its last department store chains in 2004. It suffered from a massive and highly publicized security breach of customer credit card data and the failure of its short-lived Canadian subsidiary in the early 2010s but experienced revitalized success with its expansion in urban markets within the United States."

Thank you for the information. I had no idea that it was founded in Minnesota of all places! I wonder how I never knew that despite all my trips to Minnesota and many Minnesotan relatives.  

[just_ordinary]

14 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I definitely support people boycotting companies they disagree with. What I don't understand is when people go out of their way to support huge companies (supporting smaller local businesses is a totally different matter). Just because they've figured out it's profitable to support some good causes doesn't mean they don't still do terrible things. Like with Nike recently, I liked their decision to feature Colin Kaepernick but I'm not going to show my support by going out of my way to give money to a company that is already making billions of dollars! I'm really pessimistic about giant corporations though and I think they're pretty much all evil no matter how "woke" they're trying to appear. (Though I'm still glad to see those companies making changes.)

I was talking about this with my younger sisters recently. We were laughing about a convenience store chain that has been encouraging people to apply for jobs there by saying, among other things, that you should apply if you're a "freak" for that chain, and we were saying how weird it would be if someone really was passionate about a convenience store chain like that. My sisters pointed out that it has become a thing in the Christian community to almost identify with Chic-fil-A and talk a lot about how much you love the store. As I told them, that shows how effective Chic-fil-A's marketing has been to turn their brand into a cultural marker. It's a manipulative tactic and they have been very effective at it.

I agree. Especially as it very well known under which conditions Nike produces its goods. Their awareness of racial issues doesn’t seem to apply when they employ people in third world countries. Because it is obviously totally fine to exploit them or work with suppliers that do. Their campaign is nice but in the end hypocritical and probably more a big PR move for them.

[Hisey]

On 10/30/2018 at 8:02 AM, nausicaa said:

You need to buy them from somewhere and can't just pull them out of your ass. So it's Hobby Lobby, Michael's, or Amazon.

Actually, there are other choices. There are local stores in your community, that you can buy from and support.

Buying local also increases the chance that you know something about the owners and their politics.

You usually have to pay a bit more, but I like to support local stores.

[AmericanRose]

I don't shop at Hobby Lobby or Walmart, and I try to limit what I buy from Amazon. I don't eat at Chik-fil-A or McDonalds (… or any other fast food places, for that matter). I go local when I can, which is often because I live in a city -- but when I was living in the rural Midwest, it was Amazon (I wasn't old enough to have my own money to spend pre-Amazon) or driving 40 minutes one way.

It seems to me that in the States, money is what matters most, so I try to vote with my wallet in addition to my ballot.

[HurricaneBells]

On 10/30/2018 at 11:14 AM, formergothardite said:

I did research and couldn't find out if he donated money to Trump, but they do donate money to a charity to help children. From what I could tell the stores also donate to local charities to help the community. They have not seemed to have used religion to deny medical care to employees, so there is that. 

Who is "he" though? I wasnt going to ask questions because i am australian and know nothing of these stores so minding my own but i have been following the conversation and isnt Michaels a business owned not by one man but by very big private equity firms?. Sorry its bugging me that i feel i am missing an important point here lol then i will go back to staying out of it.

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, HurricaneBells said:

Who is "he" though?

Chuck Rubin. He is the current CEO. Closest I could find to being like the Green family that owns Hobby Lobby.

Do I think that there is a chance Michael's isn't so awesome? Yes. They haven't, though used religion to deny medical care to employees. The people running haven't gotten in trouble for buying stolen ancient artifacts off the black market and then lying to smuggle them into America all so they could make a religious propaganda museum. So there is that.

If Michael's is funding oppression they aren't bragging about it like the owners of Hobby Lobby are. If information comes out that they are doing things as terrible as Hobby Lobby I'll refuse to shop there too. Not that I actually go there a lot. I'm not super crafty. Money talks with these companies and if enough people refuse to support openly hateful companies then things will change. If no one would boycott what motive would they have to do anything differently? 

 The small local craft stores closed around here a long time ago. There is still a fabric store, but they really do only sell fabric and sewing supplies. 

[theotherelise]

I haven't shopped at Hobby Lobby since the SCOTUS decision. I haven't shopped at Walmart (aside from an emergency tire on vacation when it was the only option) in over five years. We're working now to stop our Amazon purchasing.

But I do eat at chic-fil-a occasionally. 

Here is the distinction to me: I don't like how the chic-fil-a owners spend their money politically, but it is their personal income. It would be impossible to only enrich business owners who support the same causes that I do. It's their right to give their money to their causes. My issue is when they bring that into the workplace. Hobby Lobby took their case to the supreme court to get out of providing basic health care to their employees. Walmart doesn't just give money to oppose workers rights politically, they intimidate workers inside their stores to prevent unionization. Same with Bezos. 

I'll shop at Michael's because they're not maliciously going after their employee's basic needs and rights. I don't frankly care how they spend their personal income. 

That said, I do have some local boycotts based on not liking how involved local business owners are in grandstanding for issues. But that is a lot easier for me to follow because I am very involved in our local political scene. ie the guys who own the private airplane hanger where Trump is speaking in a few hours are the types I'd avoid giving money to in any way here in my town.

[KelseyAnn]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:10 PM, Hisey said:

Actually, there are other choices. There are local stores in your community, that you can buy from and support.

Buying local also increases the chance that you know something about the owners and their politics.

You usually have to pay a bit more, but I like to support local stores.

You come to my hometown and show me those 'small stores' I can buy random pipe-cleaners from without getting stabbed and I'll conceed the winning to point to you. 

[Carm_88]

On 11/1/2018 at 12:40 AM, Hisey said:

Actually, there are other choices. There are local stores in your community, that you can buy from and support.

Buying local also increases the chance that you know something about the owners and their politics.

You usually have to pay a bit more, but I like to support local stores.

Are there? You know that everywhere has a local store that sells pipe cleaners. No, you don't know that at all. You are just choosing to be snotty. Let people do what they want to do. It's not your way or the highway.

[Hisey]

7 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Are there? You know that everywhere has a local store that sells pipe cleaners. No, you don't know that at all. You are just choosing to be snotty. Let people do what they want to do. It's not your way or the highway.

There are very few situations where pipe cleaners are an emergency! In fact, there are very few things in Michaels or HL that I would consider a "necessity."

[Carm_88]

3 minutes ago, Hisey said:

There are very few situations where pipe cleaners are an emergency! In fact, there are very few things in Michaels or HL that I would consider a "necessity."

So? Something doesn't have to be a necessity. People have hobbies and arts and crafts are a big one. If they want to spend the money that they earned on pipe cleaners or yarn or anything else at Michael's, that is their business. Life is not just about necessities.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 hours ago, Hisey said:

There are very few situations where pipe cleaners are an emergency! In fact, there are very few things in Michaels or HL that I would consider a "necessity."

When did we all become ascetics?  I definitely don't remember signing up for that.

[miss_batson]

 

[habert]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:10 PM, Hisey said:

Actually, there are other choices. There are local stores in your community, that you can buy from and support.

Buying local also increases the chance that you know something about the owners and their politics.

You usually have to pay a bit more, but I like to support local stores.

Yo I’m a leftist nut and I can’t and don’t expect myself of everyone I know to know the politics of every store owner and corporation before making purchases. Especially since I don’t have a high opinion of corporations even existing. But the point @nausicaa was making is sometimes you need X and just because people go to Corupt Corporation to go get X does not make them a bad person or responsible for the evils of the corporation or endorsing them. The system is designed to give us few options. 

I wont shop at Hobby Lobby on principle but there isn’t an abundance of them where I live either. I’m not positive of the history of Michaels and I have shopped there on occasion. People should be concerned with where and how things came into existence and what they are consuming, but some people put all their time into knowing their local politics, or keeping up with federal politicians (in America), or stay focused on world news, or do community organizing, the list can go on and on. People being ideologically perfect in all areas of their life is literally impossible. 

The more successful communal way to combat personal responsibilities is for groups of people to have focused knowledge and then share their knowledge so that others can try and make informed decisions when possible. I’d rather believe people at acting mostly in good faith.

[Johannah]

Is Josie hiking in a skirt?? So...so much for the pants switch?

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

This discussion seems to get at the fundamental power dynamics of our place and time. Corporations hold an immense amount of power and the average person has very little sway over them. Voting with your dollar can have an effect but as we're mostly the middle class getting squeezed, the primary effect is to drive smaller companies with more overhead costs out of business. I really think the only answer is global scale progressive taxation but perhaps that's my lefty bias.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

17 hours ago, Johannah said:

Is Josie hiking in a skirt?? So...so much for the pants switch?

They're still in that honeymoon phase--maybe it's better in a skirt for other reasons. LOL

(Hurry, get behind this rock, no one's around--let's defraud each other).

 

[haroldtheyrefundies]

Totally off topic - but I can't help but think how Kelton looks like how I picture the Winter Soldier from Marvel to look like before WW2. Especially in the picture above.  I don't know how to handle this because I find MCU Winter Soldier very attractive. 

[SassyPants]

18 hours ago, Johannah said:

Is Josie hiking in a skirt?? So...so much for the pants switch?

Likely a skort-