Josie and Kelton 3: Living in the White Evangelical Bubble

[formergothardite]

Kelton went to PCC, didn't he? That is a crazy college fundamental college that doesn't just not teach critical thinking skills but from stories it basically tries to squash any questioning of fundie beliefs. It really isn't any wonder Kelton turned out a Trump loving fundie who comes off as if he is a bit full of himself. 

[singsingsing]

Yeah. You know that old saying, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them"? I tend to hold to that. These people are constantly showing us who they are with their ignorant and bigoted words and actions, and with their silence. I'm going to believe them, until they show me otherwise.

[Hisey]

11 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Look at those wide stances! I know no men who stand like that, I would think their hemorrhoids were bothering them or something. Fundies are weird.

That seems to be a pretty standard groomsman pose in a lot of fundie weddings.

[SilverBeach]

10 minutes ago, Hisey said:

That seems to be a pretty standard groomsman pose in a lot of fundie weddings.

I know, there is a picture of one of the dads on a stage, don't remember if it was a wedding or not, standing so far apart that it looked ridiculous, cracked me up. What's the point? It looks so silly to me. We get it, you're men! I've been to a lot of non-fundy weddings and have never seen anything like it.

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

I know, there is a picture of one of the dads on a stage, don't remember if it was a wedding or not, standing so far apart that it looked ridiculous, cracked me up. What's the point? It looks so silly to me. We get it, you're men! I've been to a lot of non-fundy weddings and have never seen anything like it.

You're describing a famous (on FJ) Doug Phillips (who is a Tool) pic. I think it came from his awesome "film festival." ?

[snickers34]

11 hours ago, Eponine said:

Incidentally I met a an electrician recently who is about 30, a typically feminine looking woman who is into makeup and “girly” things and really enjoys her profession. She said she gets lots of shocked people when she turns up for appointments.  

Shocked people?! Hopefully not literally!!!

Oh god, I'll show myself out.....#dadjoke

[Eponine]

17 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

I can only speak from my own experience as a teacher, but the old stereotypes are pretty much out, at least in Catholic and public middle school in Chicago, Boston, and NYC. 

Girls aren't steered away from anything, in fact, most of everything is geared TOWARDS showing young girls they can be anything they want, STEM is fun, women are strong, etc. 

Boys, on the other hand, are getting in trouble because they can't sit still, haven't mastered fine motor skills, and can't keep their desks organized.  While girls are concentrated as average, with a few outliers, boys are usually found either at the top of the class or at the bottom needing accommodations. 

Every student news outlet is constantly publishing articles that showcase girl power, black girl magic, female role models, etc. 

Nobody is treating girls more harshly for getting muddy at recess. Girls can wear the boy's dress code. 

Of course, the three places I have taught were either in affluent neighborhoods with parents paying top dollar for school (via taxes or tuition), or at social-justice minded low income Catholic schools. 

 

Girls are definitely still steered away from professions that are "dirty" or more manual (that's not STEM, btw). There is no big push to encourage girls to become mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc. Again it's not really a question of whether girls are performing well in school - they have the grades and resumes to get "regular" university degrees and that's where they are directed. They are not pushed towards technical degrees even when they might be naturally inclined that way for precisely the reasons you say: their school performance.

It's also not that relevant that people are celebrating girl power/black girl magic/women's strength etc, because none of that really pertains to technical professions or degrees. There is still a huge difference in how professionals like plumbers, mechanics, etc are represented in the media, toys, etc that children consume. Despite messaging that says girls can be whatever they want to be there aren't enough female models of those types of professions.

Also, there are still tons of schools with uniforms that absolutely do not let girls wear the boys' clothes and in many places girls are more discouraged from getting dirty than boys are. I don't just mean in schools necessarily, but just during their life in general. Schools are an important part, of course, but there's more to socialization than the school environment. I work at a university that has a pretty wide range of majors and I see students all the time who do not end up pursuing the areas they liked or excelled at in school but rather whatever area their parents are pressuring them to go into. The family and community socialization in those cases is way stronger than school.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

14 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I know, there is a picture of one of the dads on a stage, don't remember if it was a wedding or not, standing so far apart that it looked ridiculous, cracked me up. What's the point? It looks so silly to me. We get it, you're men! I've been to a lot of non-fundy weddings and have never seen anything like it.

that's because there is nothing like it!

how did he get back into a standing position without falling?

[HarleyQuinn]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:14 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m going to throw in some light hearted silliness for a moment. Maybe a much needed humor break with a picture of Kelton trying not to cry (which is sweet) but it looks like he’s trying not to fart. 

If I didn't love my girl Michaela Cole so much I'd make that cry face my avatar lol

[feministxtian]

6 hours ago, Eponine said:

I work at a university that has a pretty wide range of majors and I see students all the time who do not end up pursuing the areas they liked or excelled at in school but rather whatever area their parents are pressuring them to go into. The family and community socialization in those cases is way stronger than school.

Yup! For me, the parents thought that engineering was "unfeminine" so, no matter how much that all sort of came naturally to me, I was pressured to go towards some sort of business degree. The mother cried when I went to work as a designer, even though climbing around stuff under construction in a dry dock was nirvana for me. She even asked Mr. Xtian if he was sure I wasn't a lesbian because she couldn't understand why I enjoyed getting decked out in PPE and getting filthy. 

[kmachete14]

6 hours ago, Eponine said:

Girls are definitely still steered away from professions that are "dirty" or more manual (that's not STEM, btw). There is no big push to encourage girls to become mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc. Again it's not really a question of whether girls are performing well in school - they have the grades and resumes to get "regular" university degrees and that's where they are directed. They are not pushed towards technical degrees even when they might be naturally inclined that way for precisely the reasons you say: their school performance.

 

In the schools I taught at, I would say NO children, boy OR girl, was being pushed to become mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc. They do not read about famous male or female mechanics, electricians, or plumbers in social studies. They do not have shop club, but instead robotics, weather, basketball, choir, yearbook, etc. They may see a news segment on CNN student news about a female electrician, but when she says she's making 50k out of college, the middle schoolers I teach scoff at that, as their parents are lawyers, doctors, businesspersons, etc. The low SES kids think 50k is too little as well, as they all had plans of being super wealthy as a result of attending the high schools they were aiming for. 

Of course family/outside biases influence children, I am just saying that in education it is not the factor that some remember from their own childhood or make it out to be. 

[Eponine]

22 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

In the schools I taught at, I would say NO children, boy OR girl, was being pushed to become mechanics, electricians, plumbers, etc. They do not read about famous male or female mechanics, electricians, or plumbers in social studies. They do not have shop club, but instead robotics, weather, basketball, choir, yearbook, etc. They may see a news segment on CNN student news about a female electrician, but when she says she's making 50k out of college, the middle schoolers I teach scoff at that, as their parents are lawyers, doctors, businesspersons, etc. The low SES kids think 50k is too little as well, as they all had plans of being super wealthy as a result of attending the high schools they were aiming for. 

Of course family/outside biases influence children, I am just saying that in education it is not the factor that some remember from their own childhood or make it out to be. 

I think the point is more that students who don't perform very well in high school ARE pushed towards technical education in many cases, but there is a really strong gender difference on where they're encouraged to go. Bearing in mind that the majority of students who don't perform well in high school are boys, it's still pretty easy to see how it goes: boys are encouraged to go into things like mechanics or plumbing, and girls are often encouraged to do things like cosmetology, court reporting, etc.

In high performing schools like you describe this is probably not much of an issue, but for sure it happens all over. It seems like you're seeing a sample that is not representative of the whole. I see students coming from all different types of high schools - some of the best and worst in the country - and with all types of economic, social, and ethnic backgrounds and the overall pattern is pretty clear. I'm not saying this from my own experience, which was really different from all this discussion, but from the range of students I have and advise on a daily basis and have done for years.

Schools discouraging students from technical educations in general and society devaluing those professions is a whole other issue, also problematic. My own high school was in a super affluent area and technical school was barely an option, almost exactly the situation you describe. Going that route was basically seen as an immediate failure.

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

that's because there is nothing like it!

how did he get back into a standing position without falling?

In the interest of accuracy, IIRC that was the Blair Brown and Taylor Tsantles wedding.  

[AliceInFundyland]

I just had a conversation about this.

The general problem of the liberal arts education vs, “the trades”

I hope we see a shift away from this as late Gen X and younger continues to grow older and realizes the value of encouraging more than just “a college education.” I think we will. The loan debt crisis is staggering and I believe we will not want to pass it to our children.

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I just had a conversation about this.

The general problem of the liberal arts education vs, “the trades”

I hope we see a shift away from this as late Gen X and younger continues to grow older and realizes the value of encouraging more than just “a college education.” I think we will. The loan debt crisis is staggering and I believe we will not want to pass it to our children.

Part of the problem, at least in my neck of the woods, is the trades are hard to get into. My 33 YO nephew just started the process to become an electrician. He tested and retested for years and finally got the nod, and he’s a smart kid who got a finance degree from a competitive university , no debt involved, while he waited. He worked in Ag finance and hated it.

[Carm_88]

Actually when I was in high school, there was a lot of push for us to go into trades. It was a little strange, there were definitely people that were more technically oriented who would do really well, but then there was me; I was not. I think that the schools here do a fairly good job of figuring out who will do a decent job in university and who is more go toward college and trades schools. We need all kinds to make this world go around, everyone plays their part.

[BeccaGrim]

Anyone else really over Josie selling selling selling on IG posts? 

[Dandruff]

I wonder if part of what's giving people "vibes" about Kelton has to do with the fact that his mom passed away many years ago.  I don't think his dad remarried, so Kelton (and siblings) wouldn't have observed the same day-to-day husband/wife interactions as other kids.  Even within a very patriarchal culture, I think it would help give a better sense of what is, and what might not be, appropriate.

[bal maiden]

On 12/5/2018 at 4:49 PM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

that's because there is nothing like it!

how did he get back into a standing position without falling?

I will never not laugh at this picture. It’s the crowning glory of FJ. 

[albireo]

12 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I will never not laugh at this picture. It’s the crowning glory of FJ. 

It's not just Dougie's wide stance, either --- the confused flower girl, the lady on the side who looks like she's photobombing, the other men's stances, the awkward manchild groom...what a mess! ?

[ophelia]

It is a hot mess, but I LOVE that this pictures tends to pop up in a different thread every once in a while.

[BlessaYourHeart]

Has anyone noticed Josie appears to have cut her hair significantly? She now has the short shoulder length blonde hair cut me and like 70% of girls in their 20s have these days 

[HarleyQuinn]

At first glance I thought she had layers and it was just pushed back, but you're right. Looks like she chopped it. Alyssa did that too.

 

[lumpentheologie]

Josie posted an insta story about cutting her hair, and it was discussed earlier on this thread (pg. 8): 

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

Yeah, the Bates girls are day putting their Gothard approved fashion days behind them. I wouldn't be surprised if Carlin openly wears a bikini on her honeymoon, assuming they go a warm beach area.